[Redline6800]

Our misplaced love for Brand Honda in clear evidence here, when the automaker is much more concerned about cost cutting and rummaging around in its parts bin to make "cost-effficient" models for Indian customers.

"A seat from here and an engine from there! Old man Honda's got a new car there, ee ya ee ya oh !"

If Honda had any premium aspirations for the Elevate , it would have made the effort to bring in a turbocharged 1.5L engine, offer a panaromic sunroof, ventilated seats, would have offered 4 airbags on the base 2 variants, the 10.25" touchscreen on the VX, a third headrest and 3 point-belt for rear passengers, back-lit switches, auto up/down on all four windows.

Hell ! Thats the least we could expect after waiting 4 years instead of getting a warmed up City on stilts.

Will the Elevate succeed?

Sales should settle down to 2-3000 units per month within a year of launch.

I may still buy one, cause I find it hard to stomach how good the Koreans have got and tend to keep cars for a long time.

[Teleporter]

Got to see Honda Elevate today at Harmony Honda showroom at Chandigarh. The car is one of those used at media drive at Udaipur. It was a ZX CVT variant. After having read the reviews on Team BHP and having seen the reviews from media drive, below are observations from a customer perspective. Please note I have not covered often repeated things like lack of panoramic sunroof, electrically adjusted seats etc.

1. Front of car looks distinct from other cars in the category. Front appears imposing and gives the car a good SUV character.

2. The car would have a good road presence. Probably, if not the best, among the best in segment.

3. The suspension travel is probably more than average, as when four passengers sat in the car, the car sank noticeably lower. This may hint towards a softer ride as mentioned in the reviews.

4. View on all sides from driver seat is great. Driving position felt better than some main rivals.

5. Ergonomics wise car looks well thought trough, especially for the driver seat.

6. Quality of infotainment display is much better than City’s smaller and older display. Rear camera quality is also better than city’s.

7. Front seats do not travel as far back as they do in other rival cars. This may pose some challenge for very tall drivers.

8. Overall, front seat experience is good.

9. All the seats are quite comfortable in terms of cushioning.

10. Ingress and egress is easy on all sides.

11. As you open the rear door, you feel that there could be some more space (width wise) there. Compared to Creta, the back bench width is noticeably lesser. For two people, it’s a joy to sit on those well cushioned seats but three would be uneasy, definitely, for long travels. The width of back bench felt lesser than even City’s. Knee room and headroom for back seat are enormous. Definitely class leading.

12. Overall, in terms of comfort, for two people, back seat is very comfortable but there is also a feeling that you are sitting in a smaller car than what Elevate appears from outside. Cabin color scheme and low outside lighting at the showroom could be one reason for this feeling.

13. Build quality feels a level below Korean rivals. The difference is same as that between City and Verna. Please note that build quality in terms of thickness of exterior metal has nearly negligible bearing on overall safety rating of the vehicle, which is rather determined by the structural design and stability.

Overall, the experience was slightly underwhelming compared to what I had expected (because of lack of roominess on back bench). If one is not a honda fan, then there is hardly anything except unique front facia that can make a deal on first interaction with Elevate. Lets hope drivability makes up for lack of other things. That we will get to know by last week of August.

Deliveries and test drives:
Another dealership in Chandigarh confirmed that first tranche of 19 cars will be received by the dealership starting August 19. Of this lot, 2 are test drive vehicles and rest are for sales. However, sales will commence only after launch, which is expected around September 02. Prices will also be revealed by then. Tentative prices are quoted in range of 11 to 16 ex-showroom.

[RedMaw]

Spoke to my SA today. Not much new information. The same old, launch and price reveal on September 2 or 3. Deliveries will begin a week later. Cars are getting billed to dealers. Honda wants to put as many cars as possible on road as quick as well and hence dealers are advised to build up inventory and clear RTO issues soon. On pricing front, after asking repeatedly, SA confirmed Honda City will retain the flagship price. Elevate will be priced a step below. Waiting period is 3 months for new booking and is expected to increase once price is revealed. Another interesting information was, Honda has asked dealers to spend considerable amount in upgrading showroom and infra for support. It seems Honda has assured dealers of aggressive stance going forward. I don't know whether this will reflect in Elevate pricing.

[Ajitesh_Drive]

Originally Posted by RedMaw

Another interesting information was, Honda has asked dealers to spend considerable amount in upgrading showroom and infra for support. It seems Honda has assured dealers of aggressive stance going forward. I don't know whether this will reflect in Elevate pricing.

I too noticed the same thing as the showrooms here in Delhi, I mean this for 4-5 showrooms nearby my area they were being shifted to new better locations, boards were being updated, new infrastructures were being set up etc.

I hope they train their sales and support teams on soft skills to cater to a premium experience, that Honda used to have a decade ago in their golden era of CRV's, Accords & Civics topping the sales charts. Honda planning to launch 5 new SUVs by 2030 so they better gear up.

To my surprise, I visited the Tata showroom and was pleasantly surprised to see a very professional approach toward us as customers (Had gone to check out Safari for brother-in-law).

[Dead_Pedal]

Not too long ago auto manufacturers were offering automatic transmissions in only their mid variant cars.(example Jazz, Venue to name a few). Why not apply the same to hybrids? I mean, introduce only a V hybrid variant to start with. Buyers are actually accepting and keen on hybrids and this could have been a good opportunity for Honda.

[motographer]

Originally Posted by RedMaw

It seems Honda has assured dealers of aggressive stance going forward. I don't know whether this will reflect in Elevate pricing.

It's just sad that Honda doesn't find us deserving of those beautiful iVtec turbo and hybrid motors. Honda City facelift has been launched in Malaysia with both turbo and hybrid motors besides the routine 1.5 NA. What do we do to be worthy of those machines.

[motographer]

This video by Shumi from MotorInc is worth a watch and very pertinent to the discussion on the thread as well.

https://youtu.be/KL1jw7n1vxE

[theabstractmind]

Originally Posted by motographer

This video by Shumi from MotorInc is worth a watch and very pertinent to the discussion on the thread as well.

https://Youtu.be/KL1jw7n1vxE

I think the video has ramifications beyond this thread and product. Elsewhere there's a discussion going on on the topic of why Europeans and Americans have not succeeded in India. I think for that, the only answer is India is getting what it deserves - because Indian customer is beyond this forum. So if manufacturers are offering a limited range of products here which are not on par with the global portfolio, it is because we deserve it. Remember! India is beyond the forum!

A world class product requires a high quality of engineering, which comes at a cost. Then features get added. A car with quality engineering and features will make it expensive, more so because of our taxation. So, each manufacturer makes a compromise based on their appetite and values to deliver us a product based on their perception. It's that simple, yet complicated.

[Acharya]

Originally Posted by theabstractmind

I think for that, the only answer is India is getting what it deserves - because Indian customer is beyond this forum.

Lets not blame the Customer for the doing of Govt. GoI takes away 45-50% of the price paid by Customer, Manufacturer is left with meagre amount out of the money exchanged for the product. Manufacturer has to accomodate dealer margin, logistics, cost of production, R&D, marketing, fixed & sundry costs. Obviously, Profit margins are thin and competition is fierce, making India a rather tricky market to crack.

However, this is not solely to be blamed on Customer preferences. Indian customers are certainly maturing, look at increasing share of auto tranny and top end versions among the cars on sale here. Customers are certainly aspiring for global products, only to be held back by draconian tax regime, which continues to treat Cars as luxury in a country of poor.

I failed to see why Indian Customers deserve this

p.s. apologies for off-topic response, couldn't held back.

[wheelguy]

Originally Posted by Acharya

Lets not blame the Customer for the doing of Govt. GoI takes away 45-50% of the price paid by Customer, the Manufacturer is left with meagre amount out of the money exchanged for the product. Manufacturer has to accomodate dealer margin, logistics, cost of production, R&D, marketing, fixed & sundry costs. Obviously, Profit margins are thin and competition is fierce, making India a rather tricky market to crack.

However, this is not solely to be blamed on Customer preferences. Indian customers are certainly maturing, look at increasing share of auto tranny and top end versions among the cars on sale here. Customers are certainly aspiring for global products, only to be held back by draconian tax regime, which continues to treat Cars as luxury in a country of poor.

I failed to see why Indian Customers deserve this

The tax argument, though true, cannot be applied here as the rules are not specific to any one particular manufacturer; they are the same for all manufacturers. In the same environment, a few companies are succeeding while others are failing. It all boils down to the choices made by the companies regarding where to cut/compromise and where to showcase, as well as their ability to gauge the market pulse.

Some companies prioritize what the consumer wants or desires to have in their cars, rather than focusing solely on what is necessary. The companies that are struggling in our market are the ones prioritizing what is necessary rather than what is wanted.

This will only change when consumers become more aware and educated, and when the individuals responsible for guiding consumers in the right direction act responsibly. Apart from consumers, companies, and the government, if there's anyone else to blame, it's those who misguide, deceive, and influence consumers into making wrong choices.

[84.monsoon]

Originally Posted by Teleporter

7. Front seats do not travel as far back as they do in other rival cars. This may pose some challenge for very tall drivers.

Thanks for an informative write-up.
Honda always seems to be stingy in driver legroom and ho far back the driver seat travels. The Europeans go all out on this one, and most German cars including VW/Skoda can easily accommodate 6'6" drivers. However, Hondas are often not comfortable for tall drivers. In my in-law's 2nd Gen Amaze, I can't even get inside and sit with the driver seat pushed all the way back, if it is set to a high seating position. I have to lower the driver seat and only then can I get in and sit in the driving position. I think they are doing this to preserve perceived rear seat legroom. If the front seat were pushed all the way back, even then they want to convey that there is plenty of rear leg room. This is just perception, even with long seat travel, one can get more flexibility of the dividing the space between front and rear rows.

[AKSwamy]

Received a call from Magnum Honda Bangalore, that vehicles will be displayed in their showroom on 18th and 19th of this month and pre-booked customers are being invited. Hope to see it soon in flesh!

[venus1975]

Originally Posted by 84.monsoon

I think they are doing this to preserve perceived rear seat legroom. If the front seat were pushed all the way back, even then they want to convey that there is plenty of rear leg room. This is just perception, even with long seat travel, one can get more flexibility of the dividing the space between front and rear rows.

Yes, it is to manage the perception and they do it because they know the mindset of reviewers and the potential customers checking out cars in the showroom. Otherwise, a car reviewer would simply push the front seat all the way back and claim that there is not much space left for the rear passengers in their review.

In the case of Maruti, they typically cut down the under thigh support for the rear seats to provide a perception of large leg room for rear passengers.

This is sightly OT, but still relevant from a perception management standpoint: Hyundai refuses to give Diesel AT for their Venue because they want to limit the maximum price for the Venue. The moment they provide it and price it at 14.5L, the reviewers will make that high price a talking point and make everyone perceive that Hyundai Venue is ultra expensive.

So, yeah, the manufactures are wary of the perceived image of their cars and it reflects in areas like design, variant spreads and pricing.

[pravint]

Originally Posted by wheelguy

The tax argument, though true, cannot be applied here as the rules are not specific to any one particular manufacturer; they are the same for all manufacturers. In the same environment, a few companies are succeeding while others are failing.

Koreans do enjoy Comprehensive Economic Partnership Agreement between India and South Korea.
This allows them to import lot of things without much import duty,which helps them to reduce cost significantly..

[wheelguy]

Originally Posted by pravint

Koreans do enjoy Comprehensive Economic Partnership Agreement between India and South Korea.
This allows them to import lot of things without much import duty,which helps them to reduce cost significantly..

Totally didn't have in mind about the imports and FTA aspect when writing the previous post. So, the Koreans are indeed gaining an undue advantage compared to their competitors. I hope that our Indian manufacturers can level the playing field by leveraging the same Free Trade Agreement (FTA). However, unlike Indians, the people of Korea aren't as receptive to our products as we are to theirs.

It would be great if someone here with relevant expertise in FTA could provide a more comprehensive explanation, complete with specific numbers.

Looks like it is not a level playing field for the OEMs, I think we need a dedicated thread for this topic, considering we have Japanese, Chinese, American, European, and Indian companies manufacturing cars in India.