[shan.sundram]

Originally Posted by RaghuVis

This is taking a little bit off-topic but I feel this needs to be called out.

I do not agree at all with the above statement. We need to stop blaming the public for the failure of these OEMs. We have numerous threads here highlighting the failures of Ford and GM. They failed and they folded out. Don't put it on the common man.

We have millions of Hyundai/MSIL cars on the road. If we take the percentage of cars with reliability problems among them, they would have the best ratio favoring them. Most features that you call fancy are given by Honda globally. They don't give it to Indians because they think we do not deserve them. Plain and Simple.

I do not think anyone will buy ELEVATE because they want HONDA to survive.

PS: When you say Head over heart, it does look like you are doing a compromise and not living your life how you really want to live . You just want to play safe. Fortunately many don't think like that!

Some points in my post was not intended to offend other car buyers. Choosing a car is one's individual choice. The point is that Honda seems to focus on core essentials than on add-ons. Having these add-ons as standard would pitch the price of its cars higher. While Honda offers these in global markets, Honda indeed can offer it in India too. However, having regard to price sensitive Indian market (value conscious buyers), it appears to me that Honda's preference is on engineering of the car and leaving it to the buyers to choose the add-ons in aftermarket. Sales figures do reveal that Honda is not chasing market share here. For me one or two more NCAP stars (the differentiating factor) matters a lot and that makes me to live my life without compromise, add-ons anyways I can get it done in aftermarket. Cheers!

[TribalRoar]

Originally Posted by Shreyans_Jain

All this is typical CVT behaviour. It’s the same with the City and also with Verna iVT, Creta iVT and Seltos iVT. This is getting highlighted in bold and capitals simply because there is no alternative powertrain option on offer.

It is fairly obvious that there are other more appropriate options to had if one intends to do lots of hill or highway driving. Elevate’s strength lies in city driving. It is very good as a daily local runabout, again, just like City.

Thanks for the input. Im looking for a long-term practical all-rounder and my mind is almost made up to go for the Elevate subject to sensible pricing. As a prospective first-time Honda buyer, I am trying to glean as much information as I can from fellow BHPians here. I am aware that the car is quite dated in terms of features and even the components but I am willing to condone that provided the car delivers on the fundamentals. I guess a part of me is also curious to taste the honda experience swayed by the legend and folklore that it has retained all these years in india.

There seems to be a quite a few reviews pointing out that the car struggles on hills and inclines which does concern me. I am wondering whether the MT provides any improvement over the CVT in this area. I dont mind the performance on speedy highways but my drives consist of stop-start traffic on inclined roads which is the norm in the place I live. Consequently I have jettisoned the of the turbo-petrol options and I am not keen on diesel either. NA is the way to go for me and while I have driven the 1.5 NA engines of the the Brezza/creta/seltos/Kicks and found it to be adequate, I was kind of hoping that the Honda 1.5 ivtec would be at least marginally better than those engines under my driving conditions. I will probably got for the manual transmission.

All this with the distinct possibility of Honda leaving India if things dont improve are casting a shadow over my buying prospects. Visited my local Honda dealer recently for info and I must say that the place is almost 'desolate' regarding customer or sales activity. A stark contrast to the teeming and vibrant bustle of our local Hyundai and Maruti outlets. It seems the Elevate will be available for display and test drives on the last week of august. My SA told me that the sales of the City are close to dire which isnt surprising considering its ground clearance and premium pricing in our conditions. This does not bode well for the company nor people looking for long-term Honda ownership. I wonder if anyone thinks the 1.5 NA engine of any of the competitors is better than the 1.5 ivtec in terms of low end grunt and power delivery on inclined roads and steep climbs?

[GuChDa]

Originally Posted by PaddleShifter

Dear GuChDa, its a business and every manufacturer does business as per their vision and market understanding. Good ones progress while poor ones fail and leave. Many have come and left, e.g. Ford, GM/Chevrolet, Mitsubishi, Opel and others. Honda has been here atleast, offering what they deem fit for India. They offer Civic in Pakistan while Toyota offers models in Pakistan it long withdrew from India. Remember the country in discussion is said to be in a financial mess.

I politely request that we discuss the Elevate rather than what Honda didn’t do or couldn’t do. The point regarding poor FE, about Seltos being a better product is well taken. Let us not fill pages after pages on this aspect now.

(Note: Trimmed part of quoted post highlighted by placing 3 dots. Please refer to quoted post for full context).

Dear Paddle shifter,

I don't see any of the messages being pouring in are out of Elevate in context.

Even the reviews discuss the same and is in line with what we are discussing. We should be happy that we are deducing the performance and FE and misses and the good even without driving it but very closely to what experts or invitees have felt post experiencing it.

While your general aspect of limiting it to Elevate is well taken in the intrest of the thread but it would be unfair requesting the memebers not to mention any of the glaring misses or concerns leave alone the smaller aspects.

Who knows, Honda may take our feelings seriously!?

Like that way they did it (customer feedback expectation from Honda SUV). They gave boxy look car in whatever package it is as a consequence.

Will Honda listen. In all practicality No may be. (That keyhole kind of thing on the door itself was not fixed for whatever reasons). But this should not stop information and opinion sharing.

Other car reviews get over in 3 to 4 pages. But Team BHP threads cover hundreds of pages which is so much of useful information and experience for us and the other readers too.

Have a great weekend.

Originally Posted by TribalRoar

Thanks for the input. Im looking for a long-term practical all-rounder and my mind is almost made up to go for the Elevate subject to sensible pricing. As a prospective first-time Honda buyer, I am trying to glean as much information as I can from fellow BHPians here. I am aware that the car is quite dated in terms of features and even the components but I am willing to condone that provided the car delivers on the fundamentals. I guess a part of me is also curious to taste the honda experience swayed by the legend and folklore that it has retained all these years in india.

There seems to be a quite a few reviews pointing out that the car struggles on hills and inclines which does concern me. I am wondering whether the MT provides any improvement over the CVT in this area. I dont mind the performance on speedy highways but my drives consist of stop-start traffic on inclined roads which is the norm in the place I live. Consequently I have jettisoned the of the turbo-petrol options and I am not keen on diesel either. NA is the way to go for me and while I have driven the 1.5 NA engines of the the Brezza/creta/seltos/Kicks and found it to be adequate, I was kind of hoping that the Honda 1.5 ivtec would be at least marginally better than those engines under my driving conditions. I will probably got for the manual transmission.

All this with the distinct possibility of Honda leaving India if things dont improve are casting a shadow over my buying prospects. Visited my local Honda dealer recently for info and I must say that the place is almost 'desolate' regarding customer or sales activity. A stark contrast to the teeming and vibrant bustle of our local Hyundai and Maruti outlets. It seems the Elevate will be available for display and test drives on the last week of august. My SA told me that the sales of the City are close to dire which isnt surprising considering its ground clearance and premium pricing in our conditions. This does not bode well for the company nor people looking for long-term Honda ownership. I wonder if anyone thinks the 1.5 NA engine of any of the competitors is better than the 1.5 ivtec in terms of low end grunt and power delivery on inclined roads and steep climbs?

As much as I could gather,

in MT you will need to keep shifting the gears for traction. On hills that could end up being at 1st gear too. Yes, you will still be hearing that engine roars all through the effort just like in CVT but may be different kind of sound (minus CVT hissing) and the pull could be little faster relatively. Until 4000 plus rpm you don't get that torque for the pulling power. Consequences are poor FE and noisy cabin.

[nikipedia87]

Originally Posted by TribalRoar

There seems to be a quite a few reviews pointing out that the car struggles on hills and inclines which does concern me. I am wondering whether the MT provides any improvement over the CVT in this area. I dont mind the performance on speedy highways but my drives consist of stop-start traffic on inclined roads which is the norm in the place I live.

Having driven the 5th Gen City CVT extensively in the ghats, I can say that it pulls cleanly without putting a strain on the engine. Even overtaking trailers was not an issue as was made out in some of the reviews. Mind you, most of these drives were with 3-4 passengers and their luggage and the AC was on all the time. Fuel efficiency on the hills was around 16 kmpl. On the highways, at speeds of 100-110 and the same load, it was around 18 kmpl tank to tank.

I would suggest you check out the car in person and take an extended test drive in your regular route to get a better idea. No amount of literature can beat the actual hands on experience of trying out the car in the roads that you encounter in your region!

[John316_WRC]

Originally Posted by TribalRoar

I am aware that the car is quite dated in terms of features and even the components but I am willing to condone that provided the car delivers on the fundamentals.

Actually it is missing out on cooled seats, no USB -C, no pano. sunroof (not a miss in our climate). Everything else important it has. Keep in mind the car is new gound up and is based on the City platform which has been modified for the SUV. Take a long test drive on the highway and over varied surfaces, all your doubts regarding the fundamentals will be cleared.

There seems to be a quite a few reviews pointing out that the car struggles on hills and inclines which does concern me. I am wondering whether the MT provides any improvement over the CVT in this area.

In the hills every CVT will perform this way and show its rubber band whine. Yes a manual will be more fun and engaging, but if you encounter traffic the CVT will make life a lot easier.

I dont mind the performance on speedy highways but my drives consist of stop-start traffic on inclined roads which is the norm in the place I live. Consequently I have jettisoned the of the turbo-petrol options and I am not keen on diesel either.

Get the CVT, that's better for start stop traffic. Honda has tried to minimise the rubber band effect by mimicking shifts in the CVT.

NA is the way to go for me and while I have driven the 1.5 NA engines of the the Brezza/creta/ seltos/Kicks and found it to be adequate, I was kind of hoping that the Honda 1.5 ivtec would be at least marginally better than those engines under my driving conditions. I will probably go for the manual transmission.

Creta/Seltos NA is a good engine and very refined. But the iVtec will deliver more FE and will be more fun to drive. I'm sorry but the Brezza engine is no match to the Honda/Hyundai NA engine in terms of drivability. IVtec is the best 1.5 NA engine in India, period. No other NA will give you this mix of power, drivability and FE like it.

All this with the distinct possibility of Honda leaving India if things dont improve are casting a shadow over my buying prospects.

Why will a company launch a new product if they are planning to pack their bags?

Visited my local Honda dealer recently for info and I must say that the place is almost 'desolate' regarding customer or sales activity. A stark contrast to the teeming and vibrant bustle of our local Hyundai and Maruti outlets.

Ture, Honda must fire their marketing team, they messed up with the BRV too.

I wonder if anyone thinks the 1.5 NA engine of any of the competitors is better than the 1.5 ivtec in terms of low end grunt and power delivery on inclined roads and steep climbs?

In a simple word, no. The Hyundai is equally refined but the Vtec is more fun to drive. Again take longer test drives of both cars, you will know which engine is better.

[srh]

I think Honda may have a winner on their hands. A no non sense car which gets the basics right i.e. space-utility-suspension-power train-reliability-ease of living with-conservative but contemporary styling etc. Honda just needs to price it sensibly and they will easily have sales volume equal to their production capacity.

[motographer]

Originally Posted by TribalRoar

I have driven the 1.5 NA engines of the the Brezza/creta/seltos/Kicks and found it to be adequate, I was kind of hoping that the Honda 1.5 ivtec would be at least marginally better than those engines under my driving conditions. I will probably got for the manual transmission.
I wonder if anyone thinks the 1.5 NA engine of any of the competitors is better than the 1.5 ivtec in terms of low end grunt and power delivery on inclined roads and steep climbs?

I think if you found Creta/Seltos 1.5 NA adequate for your driving requirements, Elevate should be sufficient.
I haven't driven this particular tuning of 1.5 iVtec, but I think we can safely assume that it's going to be better than 1.5 NA of Hyundai group. Let's see if price justifies the rest.

[GuChDa]

Originally Posted by GuChDa

As much as I could gather,

in MT you will need to keep shifting the gears for traction. On hills that could end up being at 1st gear too. Yes, you will still be hearing that engine roars all through the effort just like in CVT but may be different kind of sound (minus CVT hissing) and the pull could be little faster relatively. Until 4000 plus rpm you don't get that torque for the pulling power. Consequences are poor FE and noisy cabin.

Even I stand confused not by my reasoning and information gathered so far but due to select opinions propelling hope even while I don't consider comparing it with City is apt since it's also the way of tuning apart from form, weight and aerodynamics at play.

The best way to clear all the confusions is to properly test drive each of the transmission in the usage scenario to self conclude. Importantly you will arrive at your decision based on your own driving style.

[evilminstrel]

Originally Posted by 07CR

Good review of Elevate, where they also compare the car with Seltos HTX NA.

Elevate Review and Comparo with Seltos

Jump to 20.20 mark for comparo.

Excerpts from video-

• Seltos has more rear space, be it the legroom or shoulder room.
• Elevate though is a better 2 seater in rear
• Elevate even misses out on TPMS or Tyre Deflation Warning system (City gets this). Wasn't there a mandate of the sort that cars should get TPMS? Correct me if I am wrong here.
• Driveability and steering is better on Elevate
• Seltos is dynamically more fun, and rides better on highways
• Braking is better on Seltos (Courtesy the rear discs?)
• Price should be 10.5 - 15.9L at max. Elevate needs to undercut City in pricing, however, they feel Honda would price the top trim at 16.5L (squarely against the Seltos HTX NA IVT-16.59).
• Mileage displayed on MID-12 KMPL (City), Highway, Easy on throttle 17 KMPL.
• Perceived build quality on Koreans is better than Elevate

For the sake of information, I actually watched what you cited. And for the sake of completion and to be factually accurate, I am listing what this video says starting from 20:20 to 20:22 (comparing Elevate with Seltos):

1. Honda has more power (tabulated), not by big margin.
2. The gear shift of Elevate is preferred over Seltos
3. Seltos is longer and wider, so vlogger says he won't be surprised if Seltos has more space in second row – I cannot find any comment suggesting higher legroom and shoulder room at least in the duration mentioned above.
4. Wheelbase of Honda is more and therefore has advantage in terms of knee room and boot space. (my input – Greater wheelbase increase the driveability/stability/handling in cars and therefore is a good advantage)
5. Elevate has more absorbent ride quality.
6. Elevate slower and linear steering is preferable
7. Honda Engine more drivable
8. Seltos is dynamically better, braking is progressive.
9. The Feel good factor of Seltos is compensated by the Elevate’s ADAS -2

I believe I have covered everything mentioned in the video during the specified duration. Having said that, I want to say that rather than relying on this, I would like to test drive both cars. However, just bringing this on record of the forum.

Originally Posted by motographer

Also to add, I think having 6 airbags across the line up in Seltos against 2 airbags in lower trims of Elevate(as per reports) will get Seltos a lot of brownie points. I always had this perception that Honda takes safety seriously as it usually used to offer safety features as standard (i formed this perception 11 years back when I was looking for a hatch and was considering Jazz. Ended up getting i20 as Jazz was way overpriced than i20/swift).
I feel if these reports are true, it's another big miss by Honda.

I agree with you principally. However,as far as sales is concerned, it may become irrelevant as most of the buyers can get six airbags in next variants (including ADAS starting from V)

Originally Posted by gururajrv

Slightly OT:

- I believe we should just reserve our comments until we drive or ride a vehicle in person
- We (atleast most of us) rely and get heavily influenced upon the reviews we read and start judging a product even before we've had first hand experience on - I am guilty of it as well
- Critics should be done only if an individual has experienced it first, which then carries weight and value for what will be written

Sadly, most of the comments is mostly against the car. But, overall it does seem like a promising one with clean lines all around. Engine could be a downer for many but it'll be more than sufficient for most as the sales indicates performance oriented mindsets are few whilst the majority prefers less intricated engines like the NA!

Nevertheless, I mean no offense to anyone

I wish Honda good luck with this new sprint of theirs. I'm happy atleast they came out of that long hangover of being or restricting themselves to City and Jazz!

I agree with you. There are just assumptions and brand loyalty floating in this thread more than car discussion at this moment.

Originally Posted by GoBabyGo

Hi Durango Dude - Attached are the two images of my 2018 Honda City VMT iVtech from November 2022 when I came back from Jammu (to Noida) for your reference. In my 65000 km experience I can say that City MT Petrol can achieve 18KMPL easily if driven on good highways with max 95kmph speed. I always drive between 90-95kmph on open highways. My colleagues who own 5th gen City CVT easily get 17-18kmpl on Noida-Agra expressway.

I believe you. See my Fuel log of my City (tank to tank), now driven 97000Kms. This is Fuel efficiency of 17.15 and 19.51 KM/L by my Honda City.

[motographer]

Originally Posted by evilminstrel

I agree with you principally. However,as far as sales is concerned, it may become irrelevant as most of the buyers can get six airbags in next variants (including ADAS starting from V

From what I have read till now, it appears 6 airbags are provided in only ZX trim and even VX gets only 4 which are further reduced in lower trims(this is purely speculative and I would reserve my judgement until official variant distribution of features is announced) but to be honest, all we have seen till now is ZX variant and somehow I don't expect anything more from Honda as to what's in the reports regarding lower trims.
Also, a lot will depend on how the trims are spaced with regards to features and price. Unlike, a lot of other things, you can't get airbags fitted aftermarket. And so, if VX aur ZX are priced way higher, a person who can get 6 airbags at approx 12-12.5 lacs OTR in Seltos will have to shell out much more for getting 6 in Elevate.
I'm in no way against Honda but again not giving 6 airbags as standard is very unHondaish. It appears Kia took a leaf out of Honda's book but Honda itself failed to do so.
I'll be more than happy to be proven wrong if Honda gives 6 airbags as standard.

[evilminstrel]

Originally Posted by motographer

From what I have read till now, it appears 6 airbags are provided in only ZX trim and even VX gets only 4 which are further reduced in lower trims(this is purely speculative and I would reserve my judgement until official variant distribution of features is announced) but to be honest, all we have seen till now is ZX variant and somehow I don't expect anything more from Honda as to what's in the reports regarding lower trims.
Also, a lot will depend on how the trims are spaced with regards to features and price. Unlike, a lot of other things, you can't get airbags fitted aftermarket. And so, if VX aur ZX are priced way higher, a person who can get 6 airbags at approx 12 lac OTR in Seltos will have to shell out more for getting 6 in Elevate.
I'm in no way against Honda but again not giving 6 airbags as standard is very unHondaish. It appears Kia took a leaf out of Honda's book but Honda itself failed to do so.
I'll be more than happy to be proven wrong if Honda gives 6 airbags as standard.

Let's wait and watch. In any case, I dont think that consumer is going to buy Seltos base or Elevate top models only for the reason that six airbags are being offered. Adding to the twist is ADAS-2 in next to base model which surely will attract some customer over six airbags. Having said that, I agree Honda will have to be really careful with the pricing here. Rest assured ( vis-a-vis consumer preferences in terms of car dynamics etc), this product is a hit or miss based on pricing.

[ashokabs]

Honda has been in India a long time and the trend is towards their exit. Exiting India means a defeat for them internationally. India, China and parts of South East Asia are the fastest growing economies and this is where the new markets will be found. Honda today has only two cars in India with Elevate making it the third. I think the City is on the way out as sales of 25000 to 30000 a year are too low. Honda as one of the leading car manufacturers internationally should have at least models in 4 -5 segments if they want to grow in India. If they don't grow they won't be able to remain in India.

[07CR]

Originally Posted by shan.sundram

The point is that Honda seems to focus on core essentials than on add-ons

The sunroof cover not falling around under hard braking is one of the essentials for me !
Rear arm rest not sloping around limply is one of the essentials for me (atleast it's better than City armrest)
A rear centre headrest and 3 point seat belt along with height adjustable front seatbelts are essentials for me.


The list is just endless. High time even the loyalists start criticizing Honda for their shobby work .

[evilminstrel]

Originally Posted by 07CR

The sunroof cover not falling around under hard braking is one of the essentials for me !
Rear arm rest not sloping around limply is one of the essentials for me (atleast it's better than City armrest)
A rear centre headrest and 3 point seat belt along with height adjustable front seatbelts are essentials for me.


The list is just endless. High time even the loyalists start criticizing Honda for their shobby work .

This is how you put it "sunroof falling around"?

If at all it means the breaks are doing its job quite efficiently. My city has similar arrangement and "sunroof has not falling around" ever. In fact, it is quite comfortable to get the cover open within a second (if at all someone requests, IMO sunroof is completely useless for any car in India). If it is to be nitpicked, some will also regard it not upto the mark coz of its colour.

Armrest are limply? Before making any judgments, I'd suggest waiting until you can check out the car for yourself (and so would I). Here's a picture below for reference. While one reviewer might have had differing opinion, it's important not to dismiss it as useless outright. Let's keep an open mind and consider different perspectives before reaching any conclusions.

As far as Center seat is concerned, my advice is do not even let your fiercest opponent sit on that uncomfortable thing for more than 10 minutes. Neither legspace nor seat comfort! In any event, it boils down to a choice between having a third uncomfortable seat with a headrest and a three-point seat belt or opting for the convenience of a 60:40 split for additional luggage space. I will chose the latter and so did Honda. City does not have 60:40 split so it has center headrest. Full marks to Honda for thinking for practicality, comfort, and travellers like me!!

[GuChDa]

Originally Posted by 07CR

The sunroof cover not falling around under hard braking is one of the essentials for me !
Rear arm rest not sloping around limply is one of the essentials for me (atleast it's better than City armrest)
A rear centre headrest and 3 point seat belt along with height adjustable front seatbelts are essentials for me.


The list is just endless. High time even the loyalists start criticizing Honda for their shobby work .

Haha. Nice one to have, which just made me recall Honda marketing VP proudly saying 'We made Elevate based on our customers feedback on how they want Honda SUV to be'.

Faisal should have done a fast acceleration too, to check if that sunroof would open as well.

Voila, people would then say Honda automated the sunroof operations.

Regarding the arm rest, Honda started to stand up again now , in city it was falling down, in Elevate it's limpy but unlike city. Next car it would be be a properly attended.

We surely deserve some lighter moments too