[epiccross]

Out of interest, with zero radar and pure camera based ADAS, would the ADAS work where visibility is poor? Because XUV700 ADAS for instance seems to work reasonably when in dense fog. That's a huge plus in my books and a valid usecase for ADAS here in India.

[robby0707]

All those people justifying that a 1.5 NA petrol is enough and also that turbos are unreliable, I have only one question. Why does Honda sell turbo petrols abroad???
If there is any good reason, then why is the Indian market not given that option?? If it is Honda’s principles that they will only sell ‘reliable’ NA engines, why do they have turbo petrol abroad???
There is absolutely no way in justifying this step motherly treatment towards our market.
The product is getting bashed left right and centre because it deserves it. VAG products get bashed for reliability and Hyundai- Kia for safety. It is our right as consumers to ask for more and criticise. If Honda prices this at 20 lakhs, we will still have people justifying it!
Priced properly ( 10 to 15) this will sell.

[GuChDa]

[quote=amitabhr;5597599]I was expecting Elevate to behave identical to the city but as per all the reviewers it's not that good for some reason. If that's true it's disappointing.

Maybe just tuned differently for fuel economy. City does have really bad mileage like 7kmpl though I usually say 9

Haven't canceled my booking for elevate yet but if it doesn't drive as good as city then it's pointless. That and the reliability of never having gone to any service center for any problem except the periodic service in like 12 years of 2 city models.

The issue with all the turbo engines in this segment is that for me 80-90% of driving is in Mumbai city traffic, home to office commutes of a few hours where RPMs are almost always below 3K.

So turbos feel good once i exit Mumbai or maybe once or twice on the freeway or expressway but having a sluggish response at low RPMs is quite irritating at least 5-10 times everyday. Though you only really feel it when switching from one car to other for some reason

Between my 8 yr old city & new creta I still find myself giving up on a few overtakes or semi-race challenges if in the creta, while the in city I am happy to oblige most of the time, however late.

And this is when the creta NA performance was amongst the better ones in 10-16L options. Though the DCTs make that bearable if in sports mode.


BUT all this is just in the below 3k rpm daily commute mode of mumbai/Bangalore.
If you are in other cities or on normal /sane roads or highways it's NOT relevant.



Really 7 kmpl for City in city driving?
I was considering a figure of about 10 to 11 kmpl . I did notice mostly people getting about 10 kmpl and few more about 11 to 12 with Eco mode. Traffic conditions also matter and so are driving styles.

In case of Elevate even touching a double digit figure consistently for city driving will be a great achievement. There is no Eco mode option in Elevate .

[hummer]

I am eagerly waiting to see how Elevate looks in gray and white colors out on the roads. I have booked a gray, hope it will be visually more loving than blue, orange and red, btw I liked the gray shade on City.

In the times of world moving to EV space, I want to have one last nice ICE car, with which I can wait as long as l want to buy my EV, of course I don't want to pay fortune for this transition vehicle.

Elevate seem to be ticking all my boxes if only priced well, however, if it exceeds 20L on road Bengaluru for ZX CVT, then I can look at XUV7OO / ScorpioN with couple of lakhs additional budget (or even a pre-owned 2017-18 Jeep Compass petrol AT for 12L-14L).

[Waspune]

Originally Posted by evilminstrel

No dear fellow. I drive about 100 Kms everyday, mix of highway and city with my NA. In every two to three months I go for more than 3000 Kms drive around India (NA or Turbo, depending upon my mood). Another fact: My Turbo is diesel, so I don't have to suffer to death at lower revs ! So I know what I am taking about.

Hold your horses sir! In your earlier post you looked too much obsessed about city drives and how a NA engine performs better in city conditions.

Some excerpts from your previous post:
1) Oh, I just can't comprehend the immense fascination with Turbo engines, really! I mean, who needs them in city drives?
2) It's not like they magically transform your daily commute into a thrilling race track experience!
3) Even if it would, I dont know how Schumachers of cities are going to get out of it!!
4) Turbo engines will not help you at lower speed- it is in fact nightmare to drive a turbo in traffic- God forbid if you are d riving manual.
5) Turbo this, Turbo that! Can a man have a good drive to his office with his school sweetheart? Thank you!

A person with modest comprehending skills would be able to infer that your comments are driven towards ‘city drives’ only. So I thought that I should make it clear that my Highway usage exceeds City usage. And to be honest I would prefer a turbo-d engine over a NA engine even in cities. In fact I love driving my manual diesel Punto in city as well as highway. You might not and that is fine!

Originally Posted by evilminstrel

I know you are not in terms with Honda, but lets just keep this to facts and not presumptions.

The only gripe I pointed about the Elevate was that misses out on a powerful turbo petrol , didn’t show any hate about Honda, if you read my post properly. So it is you who is making presumptions.

Originally Posted by evilminstrel

Another fact to give you perspective: Koreans are able to offer you features that even Indians manufacture are not able to because of Free Trade Agreement. They are not doing service to Indian Customers. Low graded cars loaded with features can be sold much cheaper in Indian market due to consumer preference for features added with benefits of FTAs. Cant do that in their own country. Now think who is dumping?

Again I don’t know why you got the Koreans into discussion. They make unsafe cars so they are out of my radar by default. I was just mentioning that Honda makes great petrol engines, but they dump the older engines in India, which is by the way a fact, even if you don’t like it.

[tiagoatrix]

Great Car!

I was skeptical during the launch but reading the reviews has made me like Elevate.

1.RIDE QUALITY, HANDLING & SPACE seems to be USP of the car.

2.Should be reliable than the competition .

3.Fit, finish, materials used are about average.

4. Kerb weight is less than the competition, 2 air bags doesn't inspire safety.

5.A lot has been talked about features, every customer has different needs, you may not like a panoramic sunroof but I do & enjoy using it, no feature is useless unless you don't use it.

This is a car that you want to buy and not worry for the next next 10- 15 years. Guess, Honda will be offering better maintenance and warranty packages to pull customers on fence.

Honda has better sales and service in tier 2&3 cities, should translate to more sales.

Guess the introductory prices around 9.99L to 16.5L (ex showroom), with mandatory 6 airbag rule, prices will increase within a couple of months after first delivery.

Wish for Elevate to succeed, least for the sake of Indian car buyers to have versatile options.

[Nalin1]

I do not know about the detailed technicalities of a turbo VS NA engine. But having experienced both, can surely say that a turbo is far better to drive anywhere, city or a highway!.

A turbo engine needs much less gear shifts, does not stall at all on big humps or craters when crawling, or when moving from standstill and does not need constant A pedal input to keep moving. A boost to have with the accelerator .

Anyway this thread is about the Elevate and brand Honda is enough to sell this lovely car!.

[John316_WRC]

Originally Posted by GuChDa

I have driven most of the Hondas abroad....I prefer not to take this discussion any further. You seem to have fallen in love with Elevate.

Likewise I have driven numerous Hyundais/Kias abroad and I can assure you they skimp on safety when it comes to Indian/subcontinent cars. In some places the Koreans can't seem to shed their rental car image. Nevertheless they too have some good offerings now like the Tucson, Elantra etc.

Love! that would be the Virtus GT not the Elevate. Every single review has highlighted the positives and negatives of this car, there is nothing to hide. I too agree that a hybrid/turbo option should have been there.

You seem to take it to heart whenever I bring up the safety issues in the Koreans and have tried to justify the manufacturers actions too. For that reason alone no further discussion. Cheers.

Originally Posted by Paritoshkalra

They are already too late to the party however, they really need to price it considerably lesser than NA Cretas and NA Seltos to gain momentum in their respective sale numbers.

Honda has to price it competitively, about 40k-50k less than respective NA competitors.

Originally Posted by 2000rpm

While I understand people defending the Elevate, I dont see any advantage of this car over the Brezza.

Everyone has their own opinions, but you do realise that both are from different segments. It is equal to you saying the Seltos has no advantage over the Sonet.

Originally Posted by robby0707

VAG products get bashed for reliability and Hyundai- Kia for safety. It is our right as consumers to ask for more and criticise

Absolutely correct. It is Honda's loss that they didn't bring a turbo/hybrid option. That would have surely added to sales numbers.

[Shreyans_Jain]

Originally Posted by CEF_Beasts

If you’re referring to the Grey TRD Camry then, that was a V6 NA engine and not a turbo-petrol.

Guess I missed the memo there! My bad.

Camry’s 3.5 V6 is naturally aspirated. All the other cars use the turbocharged version of this engine. We are talking about Toyota’s GR series engine which has multiple variants and powers a range of cars from Toyota as well as Lexus. Turbo and NA, basic and hybrid, all variants exist.

Point of the discussion was that Toyota also offers plenty to turbo petrol options in the global market. And the mere fact that an engine is turbocharged does not mean it is going to be unreliable or demand hefty maintenance in the long run.

[Lokesh Soni]

I think, overall it is a good product. Yes, it is not revolutionary like Ecosport or Seltos, but it has good fundamentals for comfort, good looks (road presence) and Honda cheap maintenance and reliabilty.
Yes, unlike City, here it cannot boastoff its NA engine's high revving character, you don't really want that character in SUVs (fuel efficiency would be good though, I get consistent ~20kmpl from my City gen5 on highway 100-110kmph cruising).

I think pricing would be the key thing, it should attract customers of Nexon and Vitara more than of Creta and Seltos.
Honda would find it to be a successfull product if it does 3000+ sales per month consistently for 1.5-2 years, as not much is invested in any new tech, it is from an existing engine and chassis platform.

[BrabarusMark]

Originally Posted by Strider24

1. Panoramic Sunroof - how many times do we actually open and use it. maybe 10-20%, rest of the time its just there for feelgood factor, no functional use for it. Elevate already feels very airy with Big windows and front glass area. I don't think people are going to feel claustrophobic in it.
   
2. Dual Zone AC- yes it could be useful but again its a premium feature, and will increase the price.
   
3. Ventilated seats- again required only on very hot days. This would have increased the price & complexity of seat design which is direct picked up from City. But I do feel that in coming days it should be made standard with leather seats in both City and Elevate.
   
4. Lack of Turbo- when a turbo charged car is driven properly (read enthusiastically) just imagine the FE figures it gives. In a country full of mileage conscious buyers, I think Honda has made a safe bet to stick to it's tried & tested i-Vtec engine. after all they need to attract numbers in sales chart.
   
5. Not launching with Hybrid- Honda Hybrid is expensive. look at the sales figures of City Hybrid. People are not seeing value in it unless govt decrease the ridiculously high rate of GST on it. until then forget more Hybrid models from Honda.

I agree with many of your points, except for the strong hybrid. At the moment, Honda has the second mover advantage to take away hybrid sales from Maruti-Toyota. They should have approached in the same way as they did the City: small numbers to gauge market reception and then a proper launch.

I can understand not launching with it, but even an assurance of an incoming hybrid would bring people to the showroom to make a booking. Maruti and Toyota knew they didn't have much to stand out in this segment, so they went hybrid. Honda is banking on its reputation without realizing it's not the early 2000s anymore. Value trumps reputation today.

[GoBabyGo]

Honda in India since last 10 years is primarily selling City & Amaze. Major reason for City sales is brand image and outstanding overall package i.e. excellent space, very good engine performance, very fuel efficient and extremely reliable. Brand name “City” has very high respect and it takes years for Honda to continue to provide updates and hence City remain benchmark in Executive Sedan segment. Maruti provided everything in their Ciaz but failed in engine parameter & not much updates since launch. Verna was diesel rocket ever since it came in Executive Sedan market. Diesel engine was its biggest USP. Where Verna lacked was interior space at the back. Verna, in my view, has been the 2nd best choice but due to rear space constraint it never hold aspiration value like City in Executive Sedan market. Skoda & VW suffered due to their image otherwise Vento and Rapid were excellent products.

In my view, Elevate do not hold the reputation of “City” which tempt people to go for it eye closed. Honda’s lackluster attitude, in India, do not encourage people to think about Honda other than someone specific need for “City” or “Amaze”. SUV segment is not as open to new entrant as Sedan segment. Creta, Seltos, Grand Vitara, Hyryder are very well accepted products, reliable, fuel efficient, multiple engine & transmission choices, space, comfort, features & what not. Beside this people trust that Hyundai, Kia, Maruti, Toyota will remain in India and they have products in pipeline for future. This is not the case with Honda, people have slight but definitely a doubt or two on Honda’s future in India.

Verna already put a minor (in reality major) dent on City sales and Elevate has no immediate fan following (like City), therefore, only Honda’s reliability is not good enough for people to try out Elevate, because Creta-Seltos gang is equally reliable, if not better. I am very much doubtful how the lower variant’s interior's look & feel will be because the beige leatherette on media drive vehicle definitely hides below average look & feel of AC vents and power window area of Elevate, but lower variants may not have that feel good factor of dashboard, AC Vents and power window area.

Honda need smart pricing to Elevate their downward going sales otherwise it will be difficult for them to compete. They may not exit but will remain crawling in Indian car market.

[evilminstrel]

Originally Posted by Waspune

Hold your horses sir! In your earlier post you looked too much obsessed about city drives and how a NA engine performs better in city conditions.

Some excerpts from your previous post:
1) Oh, I just can't comprehend the immense fascination with Turbo engines, really! I mean, who needs them in city drives?
2) It's not like they magically transform your daily commute into a thrilling race track experience!
3) Even if it would, I dont know how Schumachers of cities are going to get out of it!!
4) Turbo engines will not help you at lower speed- it is in fact nightmare to drive a turbo in traffic- God forbid if you are d riving manual.
5) Turbo this, Turbo that! Can a man have a good drive to his office with his school sweetheart? Thank you!

A person with modest comprehending skills would be able to infer that your comments are driven towards ‘city drives’ only. So I thought that I should make it clear that my Highway usage exceeds City usage. And to be honest I would prefer a turbo-d engine over a NA engine even in cities. In fact I love driving my manual diesel Punto in city as well as highway. You might not and that is fine!


The only gripe I pointed about the Elevate was that misses out on a powerful turbo petrol , didn’t show any hate about Honda, if you read my post properly. So it is you who is making presumptions.



Again I don’t know why you got the Koreans into discussion. They make unsafe cars so they are out of my radar by default. I was just mentioning that Honda makes great petrol engines, but they dump the older engines in India, which is by the way a fact, even if you don’t like it.

Let me rephrase that for you:

No matter where you predominantly drive, city driving experience is always a significant consideration for car drivers. Even if the ratio of city to highway driving is 90:10, one cannot ignore the importance of city driving. It presents the most significant challenges, not just for the car but also for the driver's physical well-being.

Even if a good proportion of highway driving is mixed in, the city will remain more relevant due to the fatigue it induces and stress it gives. 1 Hour of city drive equals multiple hours of highway drives, minus stress. I personally know many drivers planning their drives based on time when they will have a cross a city (including myself, for example, sitting a dhaba for 3 hours is more pleasant then crossing Benaras at 4 o'clock in the evening). Personally, I will not reject a car solely based on its highway performance being above average while its city drive falls short. No matter how long you are on Highway, it is city that one regrets. So it is just probably instinct to give reference for city drives. Do not take it to your heart.

I've already explained why labeling IVTECH engines as old is simply ignorant, and I really don't want to repeat myself. It's baffling that people consider Turbo technology the "latest technology" when it dates back to 1960s, while IVTECH is labeled old.

Honda, Toyota etc. - you are wasting your time in variable timing technologies!! - Just rename it every five years and you will be as "latest" as Turbo!

Anyway, for brevity, I just want to say that Turbo's power, especially at the point it kicks in, is practically inconsequential! In my personal experience, I've never found IVTECH engines inadequate for overtaking cars on highways or for having some fun with speeds. Only disclaimer I have is that these observations are for 1.5 IVTECH as I have not extensively driven 1.2 IVTECH.

Good to know about your thoughts on Korean cars - Cheers! But that's not the point. Point is how dumping is appreciated in Indian markets, Korean are just examples.

And lastly, I don't have horses, I have HorsePower! ()

[mgoel]

I agree with folks who are of opinion that Honda has not taken India seriously. Just compare it with Hyundai who does not hesitate to bring their best seller Tucson and Ioniq5 or even a new entrant Kia who does not hesitate to bring EV6. Honda could have brought HR-V if it was really serious and that would have been something. Honda is on the path to gradual death in India market unless it's leadership decide to plan otherwise. Gen-Z does not value Honda ( if they know about it)

[autonmus_drivr]

Originally Posted by samee_arian

I watched a video on YouTube by DDSRavi. He is 6.3 ft himself and he also pointed out this thing. Seems he was pretty okay with the available space and said it wasn't a deal breaker as one would get used to, but definitely a constraint for tall drivers. I also watched a video by Motorbeam where the driver's seat was adjusted for a 6 ft something guy and the passenger at the back, another 6 footer had ample space.

Thank you! The second row space seems ample. The zig wheels chat also confirmed that a 6'5 could sit behind another 6'5! But, have seen three reviews so far pointing out that the driver and co-driver seats may not be suitable for 6+ height. Eagerly waiting to check it in out in person, to decide between this and XUV700. In other news, recently celebrated my first anniversary since making the 700 booking