[neerajku]

Poor power, no turbo, no turbo, missing essentials, I cant understand a market pioneer in the 2000 coming up with this. What happened to all the consumer data collected? Really intrigued with this product. A well known respected brand coming up with a middling product! How does it further their cause? How does it plan to gain customers, respect and confidence as a leader by introducing a product like this which does not seem to have anything going except hope?

[Shreyans_Jain]

Originally Posted by Formula1

Best car in the segment (if it's 4+ star). Is there a variant without a sunroof?

Honda should have killed City completely and launched more 'premium' variants for Elevate with all the useless features. It's got the looks to beat any other car in the segment, albeit different. Sadly for them, they're playing it safe.

Someone at Honda is holding onto the City nostalgia. Its fan following is long gone. Those left are the kind who would happily move to something like the Elevate.

In this class of cars, only the Kushaq and Taigun twins are proven safe. Seltos crash test was a disaster, and that was with the older, less stringent protocol. Every other car has not been crash tested independently. As such, any and every assumption of car X being safer than car Y is just that. An assumption. We all have our personal preferences and biases, but at the end of the day, it is all speculation.

Honda’s entire existing in India over the past 10-12 years has been about protecting the City. They just can’t seem to look past it. They deliberately sabotaged Gen2 Jazz and WRV (no 1.5 petrol, no automatic in WRV, removing features, diesel AT of Amaze not offered) to avoid cannibalising City.

Elevate is a potential game changer for Honda. How hard is it to have an additional variant on top with all the missing goodies? How hard is it to have a hybrid option, even if it is expensive and made in limited quantities? Just this would have undone 90% of the criticism the car is getting, and made it a complete offering. Give the customer the option. Let him make the choice.

A premium Elevate variant (20+ lakh) could have been the foundation stone to take on Toyota in 30+ lakh and beyond. City now is just a bottleneck.

Absolutely true. Toyota of today is not the Toyota of a decade ago. They are selling Marutis en masse!! Their USP, the big diesels, have lost favour in the biggest market of India - Delhi NCR. But someone needs to grab the baton and be willing to run away with it. Toyota demands ridiculous premiums in the name of reliability. The only other brand with an equally solid reputation for reliability and trouble free ownership along with ‘premium’ connotations is Honda.

[motographer]

Originally Posted by amalji

And if my memory is correct, Honda uses ADAS from MobilEye, an Intel company and they are the major competitor to Tesla's ADAS.

Multiple things need to be taken into account. Tesla's ADAS is developed for USA's driving conditions, their freeways, their driving behaviours. The only point being made here is that considering Indians' driving behaviour, the driving environment here, ADAS appears to be primarily of major utility in conditions like heavy rains and fog where driver's visibility is already compromised and in those conditions, camera based systems become useless. So the use case is not served.
I still feel it's not of much value in city driving conditions, although it adds value on highways and some stretches of metropolitan roads.

Regarding your example of Tesla's camera based system, I doubt it's of the same level as of Honda's.
And does Mobileye makes only one category of product. Samsung is major competitor of Apple. Doesn't mean you can compare every budget phone sold by Samsung in India to iPhone. What you can compare iPhone with is only Samsung flagships.

But in no way I am diminishing Honda's effort to democratise ADAS by giving it in base variant upwards. Kudos to them for doing that.

[Paritoshkalra]

I have seen multiple reviews on youtube for the Honda Elevate and each and every reviewer have given the verdict that this is a great car to drive in terms of comfort, ride and handling & it's a no-nonsense car. Honda's fortunes can be elevated if and only if Honda Elevate is priced between 10.2 lakhs to 15.5 lakhs at max for the dual tone top end CVT version, only then this car has a potential to sell for around 4000 units per month. Its the price and variants distribution which can make or break this new launch from Honda. (They have already committed a mistake by not giving SV CVT as an option.)

They are already too late to the party however, they really need to price it considerably lesser than NA Cretas and NA Seltos to gain momentum in their respective sale numbers.

[GuChDa]

Originally Posted by neerajku

Poor power, no turbo, no turbo, missing essentials, I cant understand a market pioneer in the 2000 coming up with this. What happened to all the consumer data collected? Really intrigued with this product. A well known respected brand coming up with a middling product! How does it further their cause? How does it plan to gain customers, respect and confidence as a leader by introducing a product like this which does not seem to have anything going except hope?

Hi, In a way you have answered it yourself. Honda is milking the brands reputation and respect till the last drop.

Elevate is no bad car at all. It does serve the basic idea of point to point transport expectedly in a reliable and safe manner. It drives well too. It does misses on few features which is ok though FE too is lower, but where it misses most is due to the lack of power train options. This just falls in the entry variants of the competition offerings.

It would still sell in decent numbers (more of it aligned with Hondas target rather than being a challenger to the leadership of the Koreans)

Times have changed both from consumer point of view and as well as the demanding automotive policies from the government.

I would associate their upcoming BEV and like someone mentioned over protection of City partly as reasons for Hondas lacklustre offering with Elevate.

How much of Hondas perceived reputation/respect for being reliable and safe alone will pull it through is the moot point.

[motographer]

Originally Posted by neerajku

Poor power, no turbo, no turbo, missing essentials, I cant understand a market pioneer in the 2000 coming up with this. What happened to all the consumer data collected? Really intrigued with this product. A well known respected brand coming up with a middling product! How does it further their cause? How does it plan to gain customers, respect and confidence as a leader by introducing a product like this which does not seem to have anything going except hope?

I was wondering the same that from where did they collect their consumer data and where was the market research was done. Who were these customers whose feedback was taken?
From the discussion going on here and from the product that they offered, it appears that they took their feedback from existing City users and the only feedback that they got must have been just give us the legendary iVtec in an SUV body and plonk the Honda badge on it. Rest all features we don't need as they're for nonsense and immature consumers. You wouldn't want to sell your cars to them anyway. Ohhh and yeah, don't sell it cheaper coz than these nonsense buyers might consider buying it. Keep it at a premium, we are here for you to make the mature decision.

[neerajku]

Originally Posted by GuChDa

Hi, In a way you have answered it yourself. Honda is milking the brands reputation and respect till the last drop.

Elevate is no bad car at all. It does serve the basic idea of point to point transport expectedly in a reliable and safe manner. It drives well too. It does misses on few features which is ok though FE too is lower, but where it misses most is due to the lack of power train options. This just falls in the entry variants of the competition offerings.

May be you are right. It may catch the fancy and sell some huge volumes changing the SUV Market dynamics, only time will tell. People may go back to no frills, point to point transport philosophy, not worried about FE or pick up or pulling power. We dont know as yet though how that travel back in time would happen is questionable.
Their top of the line offering hybrid City sells the same numbers as decade old Ciaz. Does that make the leadership happy and offer them satisfactory numbers to make their bonuses, I have no idea. Personally such numbers look pathetic to me. If that is the kind of target they have kept , game is lost without a ball being bowled.

[GuChDa]

Could this be a cheer for those who are looking for Elevate and as well as a concern looking at Honda diminishing domestic and export sales figures.

Could the fall in sales Inspite of 70 K discount on regular and upto 1 lakh on Ehev an indication to shift towards ELEVATE?

Will Honda gauge this as a demand for Elevate and price it at premium to compensate their losses or would they atleast for now price Elevate competitively?

https://www.rushlane.com/honda-july-...-12475485.html

Interesting to watch this space for next year.

[theabstractmind]

Truly. I haven't seen a brand or product getting bashed as badly as this in such a short period of time. Not the crash testing or brake failures of Hyundia/KIA/Maruti, not the poor ASS of Tata/Fiat/etc., not the DSG/Fuel pump failures of VW/Skoda/etc. Really? It almost looks like trolling and the product is not yet on sale but looks very much a finished product unlike the aforesaid actual events! Wow!

Here are some ironies:
1. People ask for Turbo. VW/Skoda gives them. But people end up buying the 1.5 NA of competition which as per reviews don't set the road on fire. All the more when coupled with the new 6 speed TC gearbox.

2. People ask for automatics. And dump the DSG for reliability and CVT for rubber band effect and end up buying AMTs Or 2 decade old 4 speed ATs.

3. People say archaic design but end up buying other products with "inoffensive" Designs while dumping clean designs.

4. People ask for features but dump a Yaris which has low bling but high essential features and quality which most of the market did not dare provide. As someone else pointed out, Yaris provides 7 airbags and all 4 disc brakes, front parking sensors, powered seats. But people buy cars with sunroofs only to not use them much or cover them with sun films or shades. Or even worse, make their kids crane their heads out, a few of which has resulted in fatalities.

5. Some designs are called quirky but it hasn't stopped Hyundai or Mahindra from selling their products.


Basically if it is not a Maruti or Hyundai/KIA, people expect a Gold at the price of silver. The only manufacturer who is actually able to meet this is probably Mahindra.

This is indeed a rant but most of the comments here are taking the focus away from what the product is even before it is on sale. And, troll-worthy in nature as most of the reviews can't seem to pick any negatives beyond the NA Engine and missing features.

The uninspiring NA and AT combinations haven't stopped the competition from selling in high numbers. And some of the competition has quality of interiors from half a segment or a full segment below, but they are forgiven for some other reason. So does it really boil down to some features at the end which don't even define how well the product is engineered? It looks so, and unfortunately so.

[McLaren_P1]

Any visibility when Honda will release prices for the Elevate? Hoping it’s priced well - a decent package if top trim at 15 Lakhs.

[Newtown]

Originally Posted by neerajku

Poor power, no turbo, no turbo, missing essentials, I cant understand a market pioneer in the 2000 coming up with this. What happened to all the consumer data collected? Really intrigued with this product.

This may not be consumer data driven. This seems like a decision that is made by looking at demographics & driving conditions. An inline 4 is extremely dependable especially if it's made by Honda which is the world's largest manufacturer of engines overall.

Turbos eventually will fail, some a lot quicker than others depending on driving conditions, especially extreme conditions seen on Indian roads. Seems to me they have chosen dependability over stellar performance to future proof the car brand and reputation.

Yes, it may look like a gamble to some but knowing a thing or two about the psyche of the Japanese industry, this is how I see it.

[motographer]

Originally Posted by theabstractmind

most of the reviews can't seem to pick any negatives beyond the NA Engine and missing features.

I think that's the gripe that people are having with Honda. I don't think anyone has questioned Honda's fuss free nature or that engine's reliability.
That I think was expected from Honda to deliver. Reviews of driving dynamics have come as a pleasant surprise. Most people complaining here are not trolling, rather disappointed as we wanted Honda to do well and give a lot of people reasons to buy.
Won't you agree that taking away features offered in City is a big miss? Do you think that Honda is right in that part?
I was hoping they would offer atleast the features which are now available in almost every car of the segment, if not any segment breaking feature.
Elevate would have become a no brainer had it been offered with just a few more basic features and Turbo/Hybrid powertrain.
It's anyways one if the better looking cars in the segment along with Seltos and Kushaq(purely subjective).
I feel it's still going to be a good option for people looking in the 1.5 NA space if priced at par with City, else not.
It's not bashing/trolling, it's just disappointment. Coming so late in the segment, we probably expected Honda to offer more than what they already do good. We expected them to bring something that would shake the Korean monopoly but they didn't. And it's not that they don't have the arsenal in their armamentarium. Turbo(RS) and Hybrid options are already offered in Pakistani and South East Asian markets. Not bringing them here and taking away features that are offered in City was not nice at all, was it?

[07CR]

Originally Posted by motographer

I think that's the gripe that people are having with Honda. I don't think anyone has questioned Honda's fuss free nature or that engine's reliability.
That I think was expected from Honda to deliver. Reviews of driving dynamics have come as a pleasant surprise. Most people complaining here are not trolling, rather disappointed as we wanted Honda to do well and give a lot of people reasons to buy.
Won't you agree that taking away features offered in City is a big miss? Do you think that Honda is right in that part?
And it's not that they don't have the arsenal in their armamentarium. Turbo(RS) and Hybrid options are already offered in Pakistani and South East Asian markets. Not bringing them here and taking away features that are offered in City was not nice at all, was it?

Originally Posted by Shreyans_Jain

Honda’s entire existing in India over the past 10-12 years has been about protecting the City. They just can’t seem to look past it. They deliberately sabotaged Gen2 Jazz and WRV (no 1.5 petrol, no automatic in WRV, removing features, diesel AT of Amaze not offered) to avoid cannibalising City.

Elevate is a potential game changer game changer for Honda. How hard is it to have an additional variant on top with all the missing goodies? How hard is it to have a hybrid option, even if it is expensive and made in limited quantities? Just this would have undone 90% of the criticism the car is getting, and made it a complete offering. Give the customer the option. Let him make the choice.

+1 to this. They have the turbo options elsewhere in the world (FFS, even Pakistan gets it!). It's not like Honda is selling only NA engines worldwide to bask on their reliability factor. If they do sell turbo elsewhere why not give the Indian consumers the same option?

Regarding features, why not atleast offer the bits they have in the City. There's no illuminated power window buttons, there's no one touch up and down for windows, there's no remote window operation through key fob, why not offer the same premium knurled finish for the AC knobs which they already do in the City? They want to sell this as a family car, yet they remove the third passenger rear headrest and don't even provide a 3 pointer seat belt for middle rear passenger? City even gets footwell lighting, even that's omitted. The AC vents design of City looks great, but here it looks like its from a 1990's car! And yes, I would be shelling out close to 20L OTR for this car, leave what competition has done with their interiors, I do deserve atleast a cabin that's as premium as a City.

Originally Posted by McLaren_P1

Any visibility when Honda will release prices for the Elevate? Hoping it’s priced well - a decent package if top trim at 15 Lakhs.

Prices would be announced on 1st Sep. If ZX CVT is indeed priced at 15L Ex showroom, a lot of people would let go their disappointment with this product.

Originally Posted by Shreyans_Jain

In this class of cars, only the Kushaq and Taigun twins are proven safe. Seltos crash test was a disaster, and that was with the older, less stringent protocol. Every other car has not been crash tested independently. As such, any and every assumption of car X being safer than car Y is just that. An assumption. We all have our personal preferences and biases, but at the end of the day, it is all speculation.

Exactly until the GNCAP results of the Elevate are out, the speculation should be laid to rest.

[wheelguy]

Originally Posted by motographer

Won't you agree that taking away features offered in City is a big miss? Do you think that Honda is right in that part?
I was hoping they would offer atleast the features which are now available in almost every car of the segment, if not any segment breaking feature.
Elevate would have become a no brainer had it been offered with just a few more basic features and Turbo/Hybrid powertrain.
I feel it's still going to be a good option for people looking in the 1.5 NA space if priced at par with City, else not.
Not bringing them here and taking away features that are offered in City was not nice at all, was it?

We can refer to it as a good product with a bad strategy. As someone mentioned above, it seems like Honda is trying to avoid the cannibalization of City's market, which, in my opinion, is a rather unintelligent move on their part.

A lot of talk has been happening on turbo engines and hybrids, which raises a doubt in my mind: Does Toyota have any gasoline turbo engine anywhere in the world? If they do, I'm curious about the sales split between naturally aspirated and turbo engines. Additionally, I wonder if Toyota's choice to stick to naturally aspirated gasoline engines has anything to do with their reliability considerations.

[2000rpm]

While I understand people defending the Elevate, I dont see any advantage of this car over the Brezza.

In fact, Brezza does better than the Elevate on multiple parameters like service network, Price, looks (subjective).