[hondadriver]

Originally Posted by Circuit10

Thanks for the info. It’s my first Honda cvt car so still getting used to the engine. What about the slight lag in acceleration response time (I feel the engine just stops the acceleration for a nano second giving me a pushback feeling) when the engine is picking up speed? That wasn’t noticeable earlier. Any thoughts on that?

We can't tell if it is the engine or the cvt gears movement tha is giving you the nano second stoppage. It could also be a slight release of pressure on the accelerator pedal. The elevate accelerator pedal is a bit light and so a bit extra responsive to foot pressure. I can sometimes see the analogue rev meter on my elevate-v manual swing a bit in both directions due to the pedal pressure.

IMHO, I would not read too much into all this until the engine has gone thru 2000km at least. Your right foot will develop muscle memory. The engine would have settled in its running. And all would be well

[saket77]

Originally Posted by Circuit10

Thanks for the info. It’s my first Honda cvt car so still getting used to the engine. What about the slight lag in acceleration response time (I feel the engine just stops the acceleration for a nano second giving me a pushback feeling) when the engine is picking up speed? That wasn’t noticeable earlier. Any thoughts on that?

I drive a manual City with the same engine. There is a certain lag in engine response - noticeable only in the second gear at times when picking up from lower speeds like say after a speed breaker. Is this the same issue you are talking about?

[hotlineking]

Thanks Guys.

Just a minor concern - I don't know if this is minor or major, but I recently booked a PDI with Zekardo since my delivery is on 19th August.

I booked one for 17th August, and when I put the VIN, it said my car is manufactured in February 2024.

Should that be a concern since its 6 months earlier?

I got the deal as it was not a R model, but I was not expecting the car to be so old.

Should I have any concerns / talk to my dealer / wait for the PDI?

[hondadriver]

Originally Posted by hotlineking

Thanks Guys.

Just a minor concern - I don't know if this is minor or major, but I recently booked a PDI with Zekardo since my delivery is on 19th August.

I booked one for 17th August, and when I put the VIN, it said my car is manufactured in February 2024.

Should that be a concern since its 6 months earlier?

I got the deal as it was not a R model, but I was not expecting the car to be so old.

Should I have any concerns / talk to my dealer / wait for the PDI?

I got my Elevate in March 2024 and it was produced in Jan 2024. I tried to get them to order a new vehicle but they said they can't. Their excuse was that they can only order another one of the same kind when the last one is sold. Later on, My Honda dealer told me that R models were started in production in March 2024. So non-R model's production was halted then. By that metric, your car is not old.

The reason you are getting a discount is because they want to clear the inventory this year. Once the year changes, the discounts have to be much steeper to move inventory (this is because in the used-car market, your vehicle will be considered +1 years older).

I would make sure there is no rust anywhere (It may occur due to the car standing in an open stockyard in the rainy season). So wait for PDI. And if its all ok, then you should not worry about it.

[hotlineking]

Originally Posted by karan888

You can hardwire dashcam quite easily most of the dash cam have option to buy a compatible hardwire kit.
I have front and rear dash cam in my elevate and don't have any wire in the cabin its all routed inside the panel.
I have got 70mai A810 installed in my elevate and quite happy with it.

Hi Karan, sorry had missed this earlier. I like the 70mai A810 aswell, but from what i read online - if you hardwire a dash cam, insurance companies refuse claims?

If I take the same camera to the authorised dealer I am buying from and ask them to install, will the same problem still be there?

The only reason I am not taking a dash cam is to avoid the cabin from looking so untidy with the wire coming from the dash box area.

[Circuit10]

Originally Posted by jerk_free

Is the engine RPM drastically falling down and are you experience some kind of jerk? engine RPM hovers around 730 rpm with AC on.

Also, what I've observed is, you press the accelerator to speed up and after reaching a certain speed, if you step off the accelerator, the rpm comes down (something like stepping up in a gear in a manual). But this action is smooth. There is no jerk or anything.

At traffic signals the rpm is usually between 750-850 level. While accelerating, the rpm hovers between 1200-1700 and doesn’t fall down drastically. What I have observed is a split second no acceleration wherein the rpm is constant but the engine fails to pick up speed suddenly which leads to a pushback feeling while in motion. It’s hardly for a second but the movement is felt. It’s strange earlier it wasn’t there. I will get it checked by the engineer this weekend as my first service is due at 1000kms.

Originally Posted by saket77

Is this the same issue you are talking about?

Yes when accelerating from a halt specially between the speed of 10-20kmph that slight deacclerating movement is felt when the engine stops responding a split second. Maybe I am reading too much into it, will discuss with the service engineer and revert what is their observation.

[karan888]

Originally Posted by hotlineking

if you hardwire a dash cam, insurance companies refuse claims?

If I take the same camera to the authorised dealer I am buying from and ask them to install, will the same problem still be there?

Hardwiring doesn't void the car warranty, I had confirmed this from Honda (over an email) they had mentioned clearly that until unless you cut a wire warranty won't be avoid and with 70mai hardwiring kit you don't need to cut any wires.

Honda dealers refuse to install dashcam which were not purchased from them.

In case even if you don't hardwire the cam, only small portion of wire from glove box to cigarette lighter would be visible, rest would be hidden inside the panels.

[saket77]

Originally Posted by Circuit10

Yes when accelerating from a halt specially between the speed of 10-20kmph that slight deacclerating movement is felt when the engine stops responding a split second. Maybe I am reading too much into it, will discuss with the service engineer and revert what is their observation.

Yes, this is a problem that I have highlighted on the forum before. This is an annoying issue at times and the problem is has been reported by many other users. Hope Honda fixes it- if at all they decide to, an ECU remapping/ flash might be required.

[Blueeyedboy]

Hi everyone,

I have been a vociferous reader of team-bhp for a very long time but no proper posts till now. In that sense this is my first attempt at contributing something. Beyond a doubt this community has been instrumental in helping me arrive at a decision. This is my humble attempt to give back to the community to help all those who are in a similar predicament as I was.

Budget: 25 lakhs

Tested cars: 25. Only highlighting the ones from the same segment in this review; to keep things manageable and minimise confusion. Upgrading from a 2018 Baleno Delta Manual

Non-negotiable features

1) Safety - This is the driving factor behind wanting to buy a new car. The Baleno in all aspects was a perfect car for us in terms of space, ride comfort, brilliant engine (I like to drive on the higher end of the rev curve), smooth gearbox and low maintenance. However, a couple of highway scares led us on this upgrade journey. 6 airbags were a must, followed by NCAP ratings with a minimum threshold of 4 stars but including looking at the actual reports that NCAP publishes and looking beyond the stars (pun intended )

2) Automatic transmission - While I LOVE driving manuals, I wanted to relax in the Bangalore traffic and not be as busy. My past experience of driving automatics quickly led to the belief that the best of both the worlds (manual and automatic) can only be achieved through good PADDLE SHIFTERS thereby minimising pick up lag which is common in many automatics and somewhat mask or contain the rubber band effect

3) Sun-roof - Unfortunately for me, this comes along from my wife for whom this is absolutely a must have. The bigger the better. This would mean an inclination towards panoramic sunroof

Cars considered

1) Kia Seltos (NA and Turbo)
2) Maruti Grand Vitara (Strong and mild)
3) Hyundai creta (NA)
4) Volkswagen Taigun (both engines)
5) Škoda Kushaq (both engines)
6) Volkswagen Virtus
7) MG Aster (NA and Turbo)
8) Honda Elevate

Kia Seltos

Initially I found the variant combinations mind-numbingly difficult to understand solely because of the myriad of differentiation in features within the variants and the features being constantly changed with introduction and withdrawal of variants all the time. The Sales person we were talking to (Sahana from JSP Kia) was extremely helpful and super knowledgable and helped address this knowledge barrier. We tested the Naturally aspirated engines and the Turbo and quickly realized that both the engines are a hoot to drive being perfectly mated to DCT or ATs that offer a smooth acceleration. Turbo lag was very well contained; but I quickly realized that, I, as a driver prefer a stronger constant acceleration over a non-linear one (no matter how much a "push back in your seats" feel it offers). The Naturally aspirated engine in Seltos is extremely well refined and because of the ability to change driving modes which brings with it the benefit of a variable stiffness of the steering wheel; the overall driving package is very good. The panoramic sunroof and the premium interiors were just too good to ignore and so were the touches of ambient lighting and infotainment systems software aspects. While looking at this segment, and comparing with other cars people start talking about Bose speakers and Ventilated seats and ADAS, while completely ignoring the fact that these higher end features are not even available on the NA engine and the pricing inches upwards of 24 lakhs for these good-to-haves. I found this a main challenge in being able to trust Youtube reviews. Even when the Seltos is compared to other cars in the segment, most reviewers fail to address the huge price differences involved. Now the elephant in the room, is obviously safety. From a logical point of view it can be argued that after the GNCAP rating of 3 star, KIA made structural improvements that they advertised pretty well too; which may lead to a score inching towards a 4; but in absence of an actual rating and KIA's obvious unwillingness to send the car for an assessment, speaks volumes of their confidence. If KIA themselves are not confident about this aspect, no reason for me to trust them on their assumed 4 star claims (this claim was common across the total 3 KIA dealerships I connected with). Overall a great package though for people who are ok to compromise on safety

TLDR: Many desirable features not on offer with the NA engine. The Turbo, while great will lead to shockingly poor Mileages (I have friends who are consistently getting 5-6 kmpl in city) and the non-liner acceleration is not to my personal liking. Overall the package that might be desirable needs 25lakhs of budget, which is something I was OK with; but the safety was too difficult to ignore.

Maruti Grand Vitara

Lets get one thing straight. I LOVE Maruti. I have bought a total of 5 of them and know their workings in and out and would refer them to many in many circumstances in a heartbeat. The Grand Vitara just falls short in two very critical areas for two very different reasons.

The mild hybrid - This is of course the famous 1.5 that underpins many of its cousins, like the Brezza; but the engine is shockingly underpowered. I know a day will come when I would want to be a sedate driver only; but today is not that day. I test drove it 4 times; because otherwise that's how compelling that package is! I am confident of this getting a 4 star in at least BNCAP; given the usage of the Breeza platform. The panoramic sub-roof was very much to wife's liking (and yes a huge amount of heat, filters in from the roof due to the flimsy cloth material used, which Maruti claims is from a Mercedes but the super powerful AC can counter this very well). The door handles and window switches were just reused parts from my existing Baleno and the rest of the cabin is just a Breeza (try to compare their cabins side by side and you would be shocked at the extent of part and design re-use).

But the biggest gripe was the engine and the transmission; to the point that the paddle shifters were pretty much useless. The engine does not have enough grunt. PERIOD. With me pretty much standing on the acceleration with 3rd gear at 80 kmph the car cannot accelerate at all while climbing a normal bridge. I tried this over and over again. While there are many compelling reasons to get the Grand Vitara; this variant and this engine is not one of them. Also, this variant, again, does not have MANY features because its not offered in the top trim at all. How disappointing! A 10 lakh Baleno gets HUD but not the 21 lakh Grand Vitara; but sure, lets get the switches from Baleno

Strong hybrid - The dicky space was a complete disaster and the lack of paddle shifters ended this saga pretty quickly.


Hyundai Creta

The safety comments can pretty much be copy-pasted from Seltos. I liked the interiors and steering handling better in Seltos which is a personal choice perhaps. The feature spread was definitely better in the NA engine; since the missing desirables of Seltos were at least present in a variant that Creta offered in the naturally aspirated engine. The overall package was coming out to 22 lakhs; but we decided to not look beyond safety.

Volkswagen Taigun


Let me break the monotony and give a summary first!

SAFE, Small car, small sunroof, poor low end performance, thrilling turbo, outstanding build quality (no-one comes close) and most shocking discounts.

Let me start with the main issue. The car feels cramped and small compared to everything else in the segment. There is no denying this.
On the plus side, safety is of course a big fillip and you can feel that everywhere in the car. The door "thuds" like nothing else on offer and while you cant compare this with even the Virtus (even better build quality) or the older VAGs; this is still market leading.

The low-end performance and shocking turbo lag were major negatives but not something that I couldn't look beyond. Yes, it was a dampener but not a deal-breaker. The deal-breaker were the discounts on offer!! HUGE discounts! The discounts were so large; that it really gave me creeps about Volkswagen's play in the Indian market and their future plans; at the end we rejected the car primarily because of their desires to find an Indian partner; and the uncertainty of the future if they fail to find one. I dont want to invest 20+ lakhs in a car, to see even half of that money not coming back to me after 5 years when I decide to sell it. Also, yes, the suspension is hard; may not be comfortable at all for back-seat elders. All-in-all a sporty car, best driven on highways.

For those looking to buy, the Turbo lag is much less pronounced in the 1.0 compared to the 1.5 which makes it infinitely driveable in the city; but the overall car is just a "dead cat" that you are poking with your stick "accelerator"; before the turbo kicks in a; and then you realize that its actually a leopard that was just playing dead all along (when the turbo does kick in). This is not a positive

Skoda Kushaq

We liked the cabin design more than the Taigun and the suspension just tweaked better. Rejected for the same reasons as above. Also, the AC is not for India in the 1.0 turbo, at least in the test drives that we did.

MG Astor

My god what a car! Why doesnt this car sell !!! Just because its MG??! Super premium interiors; amazing sunroof, great safety and did I mention "PREMIUM INTERIORS". Everything in the cabin (except the laggy ICE ) is super-premium to touch, hold, feel and look-at.

The engine is a major bummer though! The NA is super under-powered and the lack of paddle shifters meant major lags. I wish the car does better in the Indian market. Yes, the under-thigh support in the backseats is a major challenge but the engine is good enough for sedate drivers and I certainly love how it looks. If anything came close to the VAGs build quality it is certainly the Aster. But, its also true that the Chinese influence is unmistakable. Be it the poor ICE or the unimaginably tacky robot in the center console.
The Turbo is a different story though. Super peppy and responsive; so engine issues eliminated. Overall package 23, sweetened with discounts to 21. But the AC in the Turbo unit that we tested was a major issue. This seems to be a consistent complaint and also MG is not manufacturing the Turbo's anymore; its just old stock. This was confirmed by 2 dealers. Due to the low mileage (5-6) it seems there are no takers for this with respect to the MG brand. I was afraid that this car might stop production. Also, the feature upgraded that MG Astor got in the 2024 version hasnt come to the Turbo since they are not manufacturing it; otherwise we would have considered it very seriously even overlooking the Chinese aspect. BTW, everyone I turned to for advice, had a poor impression of MG just because of the "China company" tag. It does not do justice to the product.

Honda Elevate

First impression - What a boring car! Why are the interiors so bland? Why is the sunroof so small? Why isnt Honda launching more cars?

The test drive of the CVT was impressive with no major issues, quick acceleration and a very useful lane watch camera. The car responded very well to the paddle shifters and overall visibility and driveability was to the point. Safety-wise; since its on the Honda city platform, I am extremely confident of the 4 stars; and perhaps a 5 too; because of the inherent advantages of the SUV design; notwithstanding the odd "point deduction" rules of the recent tweaks in the GNCAP rating system".

However, as a package it didnt stand out.

But after having tested everything in the same segment, a segment below and a segment above (remember that our budget was 25 lakhs which meant that a compelling variant of the XUV700 was in scope too); we came back to the Honda showroom on Hosur road.

This time I asked for a longer drive on NICE road; and that was the best decision till now. (note: All cars that I considered seriously, were also driven at length on NICE road). Here is my two pence of the Honda elevate:

• Could not stop smiling end to end while on the highway; I didnt have this feeling on anything I looked at till now. Take the car beyond 4000 rpm; or drop a couple of gears on the CVT Paddle shifters and the car becomes a bullet on wheels! How does a car go all the way to 7000 RPM and be completely driveable at that!! The engine is such a gem to drive and the smooth linear acceleration was very much to my liking. For the thrill seekers; since the car does such high-revs comfortably, a brisk overtake is as simple as a couple of clicks of the shifter. In every other car in which you do this; you would feel a jerk; because of the sudden rev-shifts; but precisely because this car goes to such high-revs and because its a CVT; it does that smoothly with a noticeable grunt in the engine but devoid of a jerk making the ride smooth. The Elevate offered the smoothest ride and the more balanced suspension among everything we drove. All in all, this is a great engine for a sedate driver; and this is a great engine for those looking for more performance. Of course, its not as thrilling as a Turbo; but the Turbo spooling effect was very unnerving to me.

• The lane watch camera is extremely useful and that fact that it triggers on the ICE along with carplay when you indicate a left turn on your stalk is very very useful. For wide cars this means you always keep a lookout in the left without having to turn your eye away from the front.

• Butch exterior looks which renders a clear SUV-isque character. Looks wise, both me and wife like this the most.

• The adaptive cruise I feel is usable precisely because it reacts early enough. This means that you are aware, well enough in advance, whether the adaptive braking is going to engage or not instead of playing a guessing game till the last moment. Also, I dont see the following mentioned prominently anywhere; but I hope its common knowledge that the sensitivity of the ADAS engagements can be changed from the system settings.

• The audio is outstanding in my humble opinion; specially the low frequency bass response. I saw many contradicting opinions on team-bhp about this and I respect all those; but I felt it being better than the premium branded speakers offered by many others.

Coming to the downsides.


The NVH levels are high, yes, but not high enough that you hear them over the music system and I cant recollect when was the last time that I drove without having music on. Having said that, I plan to do door and engine bay damping after I get delivery of the car. The total negotiated cost of this with double sheets is 15k. Will report back on the results after doing this.

And lets talk about media and Youtube's favourite line with the Elevate: Missing features.
Primarily in my comparisons these are: TPMS, Ventilated seats, Electrically adjustable seats, 360 camera.

I didnt find a need for TPMS till now. I am buying the ventilated seats accessory from Honda which I felt had better effect than the poor airflow offered on some other cars.
For a single driver car, electrically adjustable seats mostly are used to move the seat forwards or backwards; which is faster done manually.

Grapes are sour? Maybe. But honestly, most of these features are offered by competing cars at a much more premium value and are certainly not must-haves in my humble opinion. What "IS" must have though; is reliability, safety and a great engine that is fun to drive for 6-7 years (My Baleno was fun to drive upto the very day I sold it; never got bored with it). I do not feel the need for a 360 camera at all; and for many drivers out there this is true. Is it common for those who own cars with 360 degree camera to use them a lot after the initial "getting used to" period? I didnt feel a need for them personally.

Yes, the sun-roof is small and interiors super boring; but the fundamentals are strong and I am not compromising on any major aspect like I will have to with any of the other options.

TLDR:

Seltos: Has Bells and whistles but will mean compulsory turbo resulting in a big price hike and poor mileage; has a great engine and a good interior design but safety concern in a 25 lakhs is not justifiable to me

Creta: Has all the features that one can think of; will buy the car the day it can show a 4/5 star BNCAP/GNCAP rating

Grand vitara - Great car with the backing of Maruti's super reliable service network and after-sales but the engine is a major let -down.

Volkswagen taigun /Skoda kushaq - Uncertain india plans, turbo lag very pronounced, cramped cars

MG astor - Questionable resale value, safe, feature packed car, thrilling CVT Turbo but poor Naturally aspirated engine. Market perception of "China company" among everyone I asked for an opinion in my network. I don't agree with this personally.

Honda Elevate - Safe, big car. Great driving fundamentals. No super-desirable features amiss. Drab interior and small sun-roof. Overall no major compromises and clearly a "Man maximum, machine minimum" approach even with ADAS

Will be taking delivery of my car next week. Honda Elevate ZX-CVT R-edition. Could have taken a non-R but a factor fresh car is better than an older stock; for a little bit more money.

I think Honda Elevate's market positioning is: Sometimes doing everything well is more important than excelling in one and failing in others. While this is not ideal; this is where we are with the exit of Ford (and yes, I blame Ford for this )

To end - "The force is strong in this one"

[Circuit10]

Originally Posted by saket77

Hope Honda fixes it- if at all they decide to, an ECU remapping/ flash might be required.

Is this an Elevate specific issue or it is a common issue in all Honda India CVT cars? I will definitely bring this up with the service manager and try and find out if they have received such similar complaints.

[blogslogger]

Originally Posted by Blueeyedboy

Non-negotiable features

1) Safety - T6 airbags were a must, followed by NCAP ratings with a minimum threshold of 4 stars but including looking at the actual reports that NCAP publishes and looking beyond the stars (pun intended )





Kia Seltos

From a logical point of view it can be argued that after the GNCAP rating of 3 star, KIA made structural improvements that they advertised pretty well too; which may lead to a score inching towards a 4; but in absence of an actual rating and KIA's obvious unwillingness to send the car for an assessment, speaks volumes of their confidence.

but the safety was too difficult to ignore.

Maruti Grand Vitara

I am confident of this getting a 4 star in at least BNCAP; given the usage of the Breeza platform.



Volkswagen Taigun



SAFE,
On the plus side, safety is of course a big fillip and you can feel that everywhere in the car. The door "thuds" like nothing else on offer and while you cant compare this with even the Virtus (even better build quality) or the older VAGs; this is still market leading.


Honda Elevate

Safety-wise; since its on the Honda city platform, I am extremely confident of the 4 stars; and perhaps a 5 too; because of the inherent advantages of the SUV design; notwithstanding the odd "point deduction" rules of the recent tweaks in the GNCAP rating system".

Congratulions on your new car! Wishing you many happy drives.

If I may say so, this is a clear example of Confirmation Bias. Except for Taigun and Virtus twins, none of the cars are tested by GNCAP/BNCAP.

Elevate and Vitara based on the City and Brezza platforms may not translate into 5 star safety ratings. The same with KIA/Hundai. Old generations being 3 stars may not translate into 3 stars now.
Honda's offerings were tested for Thai spec cars which may or may not be the same as India spec.

If that were the case, Seltos is a 5 Star GNCAP rated car elsewhere in the world.

I agree that safety is a primary concern. But you may have ignored a few well packaged cars under the assumption of safety.

[mack.mehul]

The Honda Elevate is a great choice. The exterior of the car stands out and especially the front end which gives impression of a big butch SUV's like that of General Motors. The interiors though a bit plain but are functional. Plus it has all of the required features, the features left out are not of practical use and mere gadgets.
Since its a honda u can very well expect the engine, gearbox, handling to be sorted. I had a honda before, the handling of their cars is pretty good. Plus now its having good discounts so you can land a pretty good deal.

[RD150]

Originally Posted by Blueeyedboy

The low-end performance and shocking turbo lag were major negatives but not something that I couldn't look beyond. Yes, it was a dampener but not a deal-breaker. The deal-breaker were the discounts on offer!! HUGE discounts! The discounts were so large; that it really gave me creeps about Volkswagen's play in the Indian market and their future plans; at the end we rejected the car primarily because of their desires to find an Indian partner; and the uncertainty of the future if they fail to find one. I dont want to invest 20+ lakhs in a car, to see even half of that money not coming back to me after 5 years when I decide to sell it. Also, yes, the suspension is hard; may not be comfortable at all for back-seat elders. All-in-all a sporty car, best driven on highways.

Congratulations on your new car.

But you actually need to worry about Honda's future more, because VAG( Vw+Skoda) is actually doing better sales than Honda. Skoda is coming up with Punch rival soon, expect VW to come up with their variant as well. So your prediction of VAG exiting Indian market is baseless.

Honda on the other hand is testing patience of even Honda loyalists. They need to either launch a hatchback or Punch rival to stay relevant.

[aaren]

Originally Posted by saket77

Yes, this is a problem that I have highlighted on the forum before. This is an annoying issue at times and the problem is has been reported by many other users. Hope Honda fixes it- if at all they decide to, an ECU remapping/ flash might be required.

I have felt in my old Honda Jazz - there is that split second issue.

[jerk_free]

Originally Posted by blogslogger

Elevate and Vitara based on the City and Brezza platforms may not translate into 5 star safety ratings. The same with KIA/Hundai. Old generations being 3 stars may not translate into 3 stars now.

The main reason for older cars scoring 3 stars now is lack of seat belt reminders, or standard ESP or curtain airbags.

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/road-...ia-carens.html (GNCAP: 1 star for Bolero Neo, 2 for Honda Amaze and 0-3 for Kia Carens)

The strong belief with Elevate buyers is that, the city platform is structurally better and has proven itself with 5 stars for the current gen (with Thai spec though) and 4 star for previous gen in Gncap. The Elevate has been designed by the Thai R&D team and based on the launch videos, there was a lot of mention on safety addons, especially the side barrier etc. The likelihood of Honda skimping on structural safety will be highly unlikely given that this was supposed to be a global model, made in India. Creta and Seltos have a long way to go in terms of proving themselves (hopefully all these cars get tested soon and we have some solid numbers).

Can anyone confirm if Honda Elevate for India and Honda WRV are structurally the same?