[shikh_oberoi]

@irdevanand- you can't take official ARAI mileage figures as real life mileage. I don't think crysta petrol will give you anything above 10kmpl in city. Wait for others to reply on the same.
Ps : my brezza diesel Amt official arai mileage is 24kmpl+ and it never gives above 16kmpl in city drives.

[TorqueIndia]

Originally Posted by irdevanand

Hi Folks
Assuming petrol cost is 110 Rs, ARAI mileage for GX is 16.13 and VX is 23.24, ex-showroom prices are 19.2 and 24.06 then it comes to savings of Rs.2.1 for every kilometer driven in hybrid. And to break even for that 4.86 lakhs extra paid for VX you have to drive for 2.32 lakh kilometers.
Regards
Dev

This is exactly what I'm feeling about Hycross pricing , there is no point in going for Hybrid variants now. If non hybrids were priced at a difference of 2 lakhs or something, then hybrids would have made some sense.

As other forum members had pointed out, Toyota- Maruti is anticipating some tax benefits for Hybrids, that's the reason for this higher price difference it seems.

Being a Toyota and coupled with regulated crysta production, it may sell well. Pricing without a Toyota badge ( MS version) got very poor value.

[Chrome6Boy]

Originally Posted by CA Dhruv

Though the product looks perfect but whats amazes me are the basics i.e. power & torque numbers. Not many of us are focusing on it. Torque no.'s are very poor for a 7+ seater car, even camry has better torque numbers.

I had keenly read many of the Hydrer & Grand vitara reviews here, where almost all who had tested putting 5 people and some luggage, observed that the car felt underpowered & had difficulty in reaching triple digits.

Would be looking at real life reviews before booking one. Hope this doesnt disappoint as it would be a shame if a 30L+ T badged car chokes while driving through minimal hilly terrains of Dehradun or Mussoorie.

You are right.

For the most part Toyota India makes uninspiring, reliable and comfortable cars which are often driver driven. The recent Innova I think is an exception.

It is rare that an enthusiast will buy a Toyota.

I remember when 87 BHP Collola diesel was rolled out it had plenty of takers, very few hesitated to put down a premium for such a poor driving experience.

[khandujam]

Bangalore on road prices from Ravindu Toyota

[jthomas]

Originally Posted by irdevanand

Finally after checking all aspects he decided to change his booking from VX to GX. The mileage of 16.13 for GX is really good. If this is something in the lines of 8KMPL or something in that lines it would have made sense to go with VX. Hope we did the right calculation. If we are missing anything kindly point it out guys

I am also contemplating the same - to move from VX to GX variant. On the break even calculation, the added features in VX over GX would cost atleast 1 lakh to 1.5 lakh.

If one opts GX, following missing features can be retrofitted for max 1 lakh budget.
1. Parking sensors (front and back)
2. Leather wrapped steering
3. Alloy wheels
4. Cruise control
5. Speakers
6. Dual tone interiors


Not sure the below features can be added to GX
1. Auto AC
2. Rear defogger.
3. Auto IRVM

Now the dilemma is take GX and retrofit the missing features (as required) or just pay the premium and take VX.

Apart from missing the 4 airbags, VX just needs the wheel arch cladding which would be available soon.

So instead of 4.86 lakh, the actual premium for VX is around 3.5 lakh.

[neerajku]

These are really surprising prices. My guess is all that fancy waiting period for Mahindra XUV700, Scorpio N and Creta, Kia , Arenas, alcazar etc , the high end versions will dwindle and people will add some money and move to Hycross. In reliability, engineering, resale value and maintenance, none of these come close. This is a really thought through pricing and will make sure first time Toyota will move into the top echelon of sales in the pecking order.

[rutvij]

Originally Posted by irdevanand

Breakeven mileage calculation
Assuming petrol cost is 110 Rs, ARAI mileage for GX is 16.13 and VX is 23.24, ex-showroom prices are 19.2 and 24.06 then it comes to savings of Rs.2.1 for every kilometer driven in hybrid. And to break even for that 4.86 lakhs extra paid for VX you have to drive for 2.32 lakh kilometers.

You have done a great calculation. But I think you won't be getting 16.13 in regular petrol model. You would be lucky if you are able to get to double digit mileage. Whereas you will definitely get average of around 18-19 in Hybrid model. You should also take into account higher resale price of Hybrid model. Hybrid will definitely better to drive as well. After taking all these into consideration, I believe Hybrid will be better bet.

[irdevanand]

Originally Posted by rutvij

You have done a great calculation. But I think you won't be getting 16.13 in regular petrol model. You would be lucky if you are able to get to double digit mileage. Whereas you will definitely get average of around 18-19 in Hybrid model.

Thanks. I am just helping a colleague so the requirements are fixed. He will use it for highway drives only. For city he has his wagonR. If we dont generalize and dont deviate from this one-customer-one-requirement we can easily zero in on the variant.

For example Crysta petrol has ARAI mileage of 10. Just 10. And we have seen various youtube videos of same car delivering 8 and above consistently. So let us assume the Hycross will deliver a minimum of 12/11/10 and hybrid let us keep it as 18. Even then the calculation for this person is tipped in favour of the petrol. See below. Minimum of 1lakh kms required. The optics will change only when we get solid info on real world mileage of GX. We are hoping it wont go below 12 in highways.

Originally Posted by jthomas

I am also contemplating the same - to move from VX to GX variant. On the break even calculation, the added features in VX over GX would cost atleast 1 lakh to 1.5 lakh.

Very true. My colleague is not hell bent on other aspects. We might just add Alloy wheels. Thats it.

Originally Posted by TorqueIndia

This is exactly what I'm feeling about Hycross pricing , there is no point in going for Hybrid variants now. If non hybrids were priced at a difference of 2 lakhs or something, then hybrids would have made some sense. As other forum members had pointed out, Toyota- Maruti is anticipating some tax benefits for Hybrids, that's the reason for this higher price difference it seems.

Very true and this is a valid point to consider before paying that 5 lakh or 10lakh premium for the VX/ZX variants.

Originally Posted by shikh_oberoi

I don't think crysta petrol will give you anything above 10kmpl in city.

Crysta or Hycross? If you really meant CRYSTA petrol then ARAI figure itself was only 10KMPL. Now hycross is 300 KGs ligther and the ARAI number is 16.3. Right now there is no proof of real life mileage of either petrol zenix or petrol hycross. So we are assuming it to be around 12 minimum till we get solid evidence from someone in this forum or in youtube. But yeah we do understand ARAI vs real life situations.

[psbali]

Originally Posted by irdevanand

Very true. My colleague is not hell bent on other aspects. We might just add Alloy wheels. Thats it.

Thanks for the calculation. I would like to add the OTR price difference is going to be more than that.

I guess the GX variant already comes with 16inch alloys. Or I must have read the brochure wrong. GX is that 19.2 Lacs variant?

[Turbanator]

Originally Posted by irdevanand

For example Crysta petrol has ARAI mileage of 10. Just 10. And we have seen various Youtube videos of same car delivering 8 and above consistently

Absolutely correct. I expect Hycross returns 12-14 consistently on highways given the lower weight. We get 10+ easily on the Crystal petrol.

Regarding VX vs GX, it surprises me that Toyota did not have a VX trim only in Petrol. I could not keep pace with this thread ( different time zone/ progress of thread) so had to check the website if I was reading correctly.

I won't be surprised if we see VX on Petrol only variants at a later date. Until then, if someone is on a budget and wants to avoid Hybrid, it's an easy decision for GX. Though the accessories that we get outside are not of the same quality, many times, functionally is better than what Toyota gives standard on the higher trim.

[baarish84]

Originally Posted by irdevanand

. Even then the calculation for this person is tipped in favour of the petrol. See below. Minimum of 1lakh kms required.

I think you have assumed fuel cost as static , you may want to assume a higher number as fuel prices will go upwards during the course of ownership of say 10 years.

That may reduce breakeven kilometres.

Further, ARAI mileage for petrol only variant will be much lower (9-10 kmpl) in real world. On other hand, for hybrid variant real world milege might be much closer to ARAI milege.

This observation is based on Hyryder Grand vitara thread.

[PragRunner]

There is some claim about body roll in this

video

? Does this seem reasonable / possible?

[GTO]

Anyone who buys the non-hybrid regular petrol, please do so after a lot of thought. I recently bought a turbo-petrol SUV and it gives me 5 - 6 kmpl in the city. The Innova Hycross non-hybrid will be the same. Drive it hard in a pedal-to-the-metal manner and you'll faint seeing the FE .

I don't think regular petrols will ever succeed in big MPVs & SUVs in India. They need either a good hybrid or turbo-diesel.

One of the reasons that the Innova Hycross has a relatively small 52L fuel tank (in such a big car!!!) is to prevent "full tank shock" at the petrol pump. 6 kmpl means a range of <300 km before you need to fill up, and that will cost you well over 5000 bucks.

The market for diesels in big UVs will continue for a long time to come. The only alternative is hybrid. You have to have either, and I give a pat on the back to Toyota for betting on hybrids. I love hybrids! Although, it's only their city FE which is good....highway FE is ordinary.

[vredesbyrd]

OT:
Only automatic transmission? Guess they don't want decent sales numbers (or any sales) in my home state at all (UP).

[mk600]

Originally Posted by GTO

Anyone who buys the non-hybrid regular petrol, please do so after a lot of thought. I recently bought a turbo-petrol SUV and it gives me 5 - 6 kmpl in the city. The Innova Hycross will be the same. Drive it hard in a pedal-to-the-metal manner and you'll faint seeing the FE .

I don't think regular petrols will ever succeed in big MPVs & SUVs in India. They need either a good hybrid or turbo-diesel.

Unlike XUV700 where the Diesel variant is priced just 65K more than XUV Petrol variant, the Hycross Petrol and Hycross Hybrid the price difference is too wide of at least 5-10 Lakhs (and also unlike the XUV700, the Hycross Petrol is not available in top trim). That's the first challenge, as it's not easy to understand how financially the Hybrid Hycross makes better sense compared to Petrol Hycross itself.

In the City, the Hybrid Hycross has a better chance to outshine the Petrol Hycross where 5L investment on Hybrid (plus other features) can be recovered in about 7 years, if the run is 1000 km per month.

The second challenge seems to be that the Hybrid Hycross technology seems to be designed to be a city traffic mileage king (22 kmpl), but large vehicles like Innova Diesels have always been mostly used as a highway king in India.

On the highway, it is difficult to understand how the Hybrid Hycross will be significantly better value proposition than Crysta/XUV700 Diesel. Assuming 1000km monthly run, it would take 15 plus years to recoup a 5L premium paid on a top variant Crysta/XUV700 diesel on highways.