[Heisenberg_ad]

Originally Posted by vinodvayyat

Toyota puts a premium on their cars because their cars are reliable - lot of R&D, effort and money gets invested for the same.

I am curious about what do they put a premium for?
Is it because nothing breaks in a toyota? Or is it because toyota is quick to resolve the issues if any?

In India, Toyota cars aren't particularly known for being feature rich, or giving lot of electronics till now. For example, crysta didnt have as many features as XUV500, fortuner don't have as many features as say a Gloster.

So if people say nothing breaks in a Toyota, is it because there's nothing to break in a Toyota?

Even in most unreliable cars like JLR products I'm sure most things that fall apart are electronics.

Don't get me wrong please, I do like Toyota products. Infact I like sorted and well engineered cars mechanically over cars with a lot of gizmoz.

My point is why do we pay 'Toyota premium' for that? Is it just because they give less features hence less breakdowns?
Is Toyota punishing us for asking for less features or things to break?

I'm not debating, I'm seeking for validation and justification for my likings towards Toyota.

[r24x7]

Originally Posted by KI07

this running cost does not include the added features.
The comparison method you chose is suitable when there are 2 powertrains in the same variant!

Agreed. If you are able to forego TPMS , Cruise control, 2" bigger infotainment system ( 8" vs 10") , an auto AC over a manual ac and most importantly if the car usage is going to be relatively lesser , then it could still sound a bit reasonable to atleast look at considering the GX.

You are still getting the same great looking hycross with almost all essential features such as alloy wheels ,audio system with Android auto and apple carplay ; also with a reverse camera for a lesser price!

I think this price gap was planned, intentional and makes a lot of sense to me atleast.

[superchamp]

Originally Posted by 84.monsoon

I see a number of Crysta owners from the 2016-2018 vintage upgrading to the Hycross, creating a glut of used Crystas in the market in 2023. The prices of used Crystas will fall as supply increases. The taxi market may be able to pick up some of these and get them registered as commercial vehicles or run them informally. So if anyone is planning on selling their Crystas to upgrade to the HyCross, it is probably better to do that sooner rather than later, as demand is good right now and supply is low, given Toyota have temporarily stopped making Crystas.

This is not going to happen because of the price difference to the new hycross. Crysta and hycross are fundamentally different and cater to different group of customers. We need to wait for some time to see if Hycross really sells and also long term reliability has to be proved.

[LaRoca]

Originally Posted by DRIVE_ADDICT

Unfortunately, a 36L Innova is now proclaimed as best pricing. Blame it on the current trend of Car pricing.

Please note, We are not talking about the Big fat German trio here, we are talking about 7 seater people mover and a Toyota.

One can buy a 1 bhk for the same price in some of the upcoming zones in big metro cities. Agree, Agree, Definitely not the right comparison, but cannot avoid the middle class mind popping out.

Insane pricing for cars these days!!.. Hope some price correction kicks in sometime going by the current economic trend.

While a price correction may not be too far away given the economic gloom thats brewing, the absurdity reflecting in the on-road price of cars these days have to be credited to our government for its insane and unexplainable taxes on automobiles.

Okay I'm not implying that they take away these taxes altogether but heck even a 28% GST and at that instead of the roughly 50% would still make it 'reasonable' in my opinion.

[Lovecars]

Originally Posted by ashis89

I have relatives earning better than a crore and yet driving a humble City or an old XUV500. And some others who earn a third of a crore but still got X1 or a Civic. Priorities differ from person/family to person/family.

Hi Ashis89
Your point is absolutely right. I have also felt that those (>90%) who are ultra rich drive or get chauffered in very basic (non bling) cars like Innova, City etc. On the contrary, people with fraction of their money are driving Mercedes' , BMWs and Audis on EMIs. Showoff is putting us in debt now. I have 8 years old Sx4 which is serving me well but the itch to purchase new car is very high since 2 years. I know I can afford a good car but that would push me towards latter category. For me, Itch to buy a new car starts just after EMIs end. Due to this showoff, one can find just a month old car in the used car market and companies are making a huge profit selling their cars on MRP because of this huge demand. We,people, are changing cars like we change our clothes (seasonely).
Is it me or any other BHPian thinks same way?

[cmani0000]

Originally Posted by Heisenberg_ad

I am curious about what do they put a premium for?
Is it because nothing breaks in a toyota? Or is it because toyota is quick to resolve the issues if any?

In India, Toyota cars aren't particularly known for being feature rich, or giving lot of electronics till now. For example, crysta didnt have as many features as XUV500, fortuner don't have as many features as say a Gloster.

So if people say nothing breaks in a Toyota, is it because there's nothing to break in a Toyota?

Even in most unreliable cars like JLR products I'm sure most things that fall apart are electronics.

Don't get me wrong please, I do like Toyota products. Infact I like sorted and well engineered cars mechanically over cars with a lot of gizmoz.

My point is why do we pay 'Toyota premium' for that? Is it just because they give less features hence less breakdowns?
Is Toyota punishing us for asking for less features or things to break?

I'm not debating, I'm seeking for validation and justification for my likings towards Toyota.

You are right, the premium pricing of Toyota and "reliability" is bit over-hyped.

my FIL owns a TATA Nexon and has clocked 1.5 Lakh Kms so far in 4 years with no major repair (touchwood!).
Trust me that car is abused to maximum. For a brand that is labelled not so reliable across this forum, it is impressive. I can get lot more examples like this even from my personal experience.

IMHO, Most of the well known old brands are reliable; Of Course, Some new comers may fail to adapt their suspension and chassis to Indian driving conditions.

Electronics, specifically the ones that depend on sensors' output, are prone to failure. Popular brands usually have dependable suppliers that follow the manufacturers' quality standards strictly, while new brands might still be sorting out supplier quality in a new country (exception: KIA)

Build quality is good across the board now a days if not excellent: Tatas, Mahindras, VWG, Hyundai, Kia, MG all make sturdy cars

Service cost might differ based on the operational(and profit) model of a brand, but that is ok compared to paying 8L extra upfront.

Resale value doesn't matter if you're gonna hold the car for 1.5 to 2L Kms or 10 years.

Other popular but not so meaningful factors like Thud Sound, Macho Look, Length of features list etc can straight away be ignored.

If were in the market right now, I would not neglect XUV700 just because Mahindra is "perceived" as not reliable. Infact, that would be my top choice over HyCross.


disclaimer: these are just my opinions, and I know still some one will say "No, Toyota is the most reliable brand in India" - I can say nothing but just smile.

[vinodvayyat]

Originally Posted by Heisenberg_ad

I am curious about what do they put a premium for?
Is it because nothing breaks in a toyota? Or is it because toyota is quick to resolve the issues if any?
...
So if people say nothing breaks in a Toyota, is it because there's nothing to break in a Toyota?

...

My point is why do we pay 'Toyota premium' for that? Is it just because they give less features hence less breakdowns?

This is debated enough through years in TeamBHP. In case of lack of time, just Googling should be enough.


Yes, they seem to be quick to resolve niggles. There were issues during Crysta's initial years. But the threads seem to have died a few years back - that too without many posts until the last post. Following thread has all aspects covered w.r.to Crysta.

https://www.team-bhp.com/news/pros-c...-innova-crysta

People trust Toyota blindly. It might be perception to large extent - but it somehow got created right? It is not like Toyota is not allowing other brands from creating this perception. Bells and Whistles may not be what everyone wants - a product that works well and caters to one's own need without needing to break a sweat might be a good USP, after all!

But see threads for some other brands/cars below.

XUV500 - https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techn...tions-201.html (Mahindra XUV500 niggles & solutions)
XUV700 - https://www.team-bhp.com/news/doubti...s-no-fix-sight
XUV700 - https://www.team-bhp.com/news/my-xuv...-quality-parts
Harrier - https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techn...c-failure.html (Never-ending niggles & issues with my 2022 Tata Harrier | Tata Motors QC is a failure)
Safari - https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techn...-continue.html (Brand new 2021 Tata Safari | Breakdown on delivery day, problems continue)

I won't be able to extend this conversation any further - I don't think it adds any value. Enough information is out there to be searched and understood.

[CA Dhruv]

As stated above by many Bhpians, pricing can be an individual aspect. For someone already having a camry in their garage, this would seem like a cheaper hybrid which could carry upto 8 people , while for those upgrading from 8-15 Lac bracket it can be on the higher side.

In my case its the latter, had got membership of this forum 6.5 years ago just a day shy before getting a Ciaz ZDI for family (99.99 % chauffeur driven & 90% highway 10% city). Its mainly used to cover Delhi - Dehradun stretch.

In the market to replace it after clocking 55.5k miles. Hycross seems to be ticking every box although a bit pricey and doesnt have a manual variant (driver feels automatics might steal his job).

Though the product looks perfect but whats amazes me are the basics i.e. power & torque numbers. Not many of us are focusing on it. Torque no.'s are very poor for a 7+ seater car, even camry has better torque numbers.

I had keenly read many of the Hydrer & Grand vitara reviews here, where almost all who had tested putting 5 people and some luggage, observed that the car felt underpowered & had difficulty in reaching triple digits.

Would be looking at real life reviews before booking one. Hope this doesnt disappoint as it would be a shame if a 30L+ T badged car chokes while driving through minimal hilly terrains of Dehradun or Mussoorie.

[Gautam_707]

Originally Posted by Kosfactor

Reliability from a start up and run in the morning perspective - yes but durability will take a hit.

Toyota themselves knew that Indian roads were different from that abroad, so they played safe with Qualis and then Innova/Fortuner etc. They did not focus much on Corolla/Camry , they also did not indianize these cars as well, So as a Corolla or Camry age, they aren't in the same league as an Innova / Fortuner. Durability is a problem and replacement parts will burn a hole through your wallet. Etios is very much Indianized and is pretty durable as far as the mechanical bits are concerned however the rest of the bits aren't the same you expect of a Toyota.

Hycross if it is sufficiently Indianized should ideally make it far more durable and easy to maintain however the typical FWD replacement items (interval and price), the ground clearance issues (no frame to tuck things behind) etc are always going to play a role in deciding if the vehicle will suit commercial use.

I don't agree, my father uses a 2015 Mitsubishi Pajero in Muscat, and he goes on regular offroading trips to the famed Wahiba Sands, going dune bashing. My dad, i can honestly say is one of the most skilled off-road drivers I've ever seen, but his style of driving requires a durable car. The mpajero uses a monocoque chassis as far as i know, and it has never caused any problems at all, in the past 7 or so years of ownership. We had our doubts too, an sub meant for part off-road using a monocoque, but no, the chassis holds up well, and it's definitely well made.

[adi58]

With Hycross and Fortuner pricing Toyota is definitely dreaming of eating into big 3 German sales

[Cresterk]

Random question : Does the hycross have navigation or GPS? I have been watching reviews but not a single one shows a navigation screen in the head unit.

[vinodvayyat]

Originally Posted by Cresterk

Random question : Does the hycross have navigation or GPS? I have been watching reviews but not a single one shows a navigation screen in the head unit.

No in-built navigation app. You have to use Android auto or Car Play. GPS is there I think since "Find my car" is one of the Connected Car features.

[DicKy]

Originally Posted by Gautam_707

I don't agree, my father uses a 2015 Mitsubishi Pajero in Muscat, and he goes on regular offroading trips to the famed Wahiba Sands, going dune bashing. My dad, i can honestly say is one of the most skilled off-road drivers I've ever seen, but his style of driving requires a durable car. The mpajero uses a monocoque chassis as far as i know, and it has never caused any problems at all, in the past 7 or so years of ownership. We had our doubts too, an sub meant for part off-road using a monocoque, but no, the chassis holds up well, and it's definitely well made.

Offtopic.
Can't compare the Pajero with the other run of the mill monocoque/ unibody vehicles. Pajero is the definition of a Sports Utility Vehicle and unlike its compatriots from Toyota and Nissan see less of commercial usage and more of sports usage.

Also, the Pajero and models like the old Grand Vitara, while unibody/ monocoque have an integrated ladder chassis design in their unibody. This results in far more rigidity and durability than other run of the mill monocoques. Not to say they get the fundamentals right. Right from the longitundinal engine mounted rear wheel drive layout to the suspension system. Can't say the same for the other monocoques.

I am a noob regarding off-roading, but I believe while dune bashing does put stress on vehicles, it has more to do with the sheer power that can be put down, unlike rock crawling and other off-roading events needing extreme articulation and puts more stress on the frame.

[aniketi]

I guess Toyota is testing waters here. They are not sure how petrol only Innova will sell. Pricing just reflects that. Hybrid is the model to go as it has many features and the technology. Vx model is decently priced but could have been 2 lakhs cheaper as its petrol only and has 2 airbags. Let's see how market responds and we could see real numbers after first 4-6 months only.

[irdevanand]

Hi Folks

A colleague wanted help with choosing GX vs VX and following where the constraints/details. He is currently driving a wagonR and wants to move to a 7 seater version. He has booked both XUV700 as well as Hycross.

1. It is a company lease and hence the upper cap is 25 lakhs on road. VX on road is around 30 Lakhs.
2. If the employee still wants to go for VX then he has to share 50% of registration cost and first year insurance from his pocket.
3. GX on the other hand fits nicely within 25 L.

So we sat and did some calculations on the break even mileage for the extra 5 lakhs for VX vis a vis the features available in VX.

Breakeven mileage calculation
Assuming petrol cost is 110 Rs, ARAI mileage for GX is 16.13 and VX is 23.24, ex-showroom prices are 19.2 and 24.06 then it comes to savings of Rs.2.1 for every kilometer driven in hybrid. And to break even for that 4.86 lakhs extra paid for VX you have to drive for 2.32 lakh kilometers.



Features Comparison
The following features will be missing in GX
1. safety - both are 2 airbag versions, tpms will be missing in Gx
2. Braking and traction - absolutely no difference. all features including ESP are same.
3. Locks and security - same
4. Comfort and convenience - Automatic dual zone AC, 360degree camera, cruise control in VX
5. Telematics - all features same except remote on/off available in VX















Finally after checking all aspects he decided to change his booking from VX to GX. The mileage of 16.13 for GX is really good. If this is something in the lines of 8KMPL or something in that lines it would have made sense to go with VX. Hope we did the right calculation. If we are missing anything kindly point it out guys.

Regards
Dev