Team-BHP
(
https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/)
Had previously booked a Kia Carnival but cancelled it due to high pricing during launch.
Planning to go with Hycross ZX Hybrid (just for the ottoman seats) to replace my grandparents' 2014 Innova just for the sheer comfort which looks like it may match the timeless comfort of the old Innova. Just hope that Toyota doesn't overprice it to match the reception gained and cross into Carnival territory!
Quote:
Originally Posted by supertinu
(Post 5457673)
I have a friend who just booked Xuv700 P AX7L (top end) and was wondering if he should wait to check out Innova Hycross as well. .. IN all other parameters like engine, power, perf, comfort, features, tech there is nothing in Hycross that is better.
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In addition to what you have added, let me humbly remind your friend (and other fence-sitters) that the Innova Hycross has not yet been crash-tested. Anywhere in the world as on today. Agreed, chances are it may perform very well when it get tested, but one cannot take it for granted especially w.r.t with the Indian version.
Quote:
Originally Posted by supertinu
(Post 5457673)
IN all other parameters like engine, power, perf, comfort, features, tech there is nothing in Hycross that is better. I agree efficiency cannot be compared but keep in mind that top end AX7L costs about 29lac OTR in BLR, same ZX(o) for Hycross will be 38+ mostly.
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I dont know how you define better but Hycross is faster to 100 than XUV700, will be more than twice as efficient in city driving and in all probability last longer than XUV700. Being a Hybrid there are less things to go wrong - No alternator, no starter motors, no pulleys and belts to run the A/C compressor and long brake pad change intervals because 90% of the braking is done via regen. Its not just better, it is comprehensively so.
Quote:
I went to Harsha Toyota (Velappanchavadi) showroom to see Hycross in person. I was disappointed by how the seats felt. To me, it didn't look/feel like Crysta and is a downgrade from what Crysta offered in terms of comfort, space, firmness of the seats. The seats are a little low, alright, but that's not a problem for me. The seats in the 2nd row didn't have the same thickness, the firmness, width or overall comfort of the Crysta, everything was a step or 2 down. .
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I also feel that there is less bolstering in Hycross seats. The below pictures show that Hycross seats are looking flat and lifeless compared to Crysta. The color selection may be a reason for a little gloomy interiors.
Also one can see that the gear lever moving to central console has not freed up space. But some storage under the AC control/ports is now gone.
We can clearly see that the second row seats are placed low compared to Crysta and has less under thigh support. Knees pointing up
Image Credits: Team BHP official review, Autocar, Motorworld
Quote:
Originally Posted by poloman
(Post 5458025)
We can clearly see that the second row seats are placed low compared to Crysta and has less under thigh support. Knees pointing up Attachment 2390727 Attachment 2390729
Image Credits: Team BHP official review, Autocar, Motorworld
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Woah! Second row gallery seating was one of the highlights of the old and new BoF Innovas. Second row is placed a bit higher than the first row with excellent view out of the window. In these pics above the second row seat base of the Hycross is at about the same level as the first row. Window line is also high.
Don't know the height of the two people in these photos so not sure if the leg up posture in the Hycross will be applicable to others. If it does then automan will get tired sitting in the ottoman. The lower leg extendable calf support will be more of a necessity than a luxury.
Got this from dealership today. If anybody wants to check out, head out there as per the timelines.
Vehicle will be on display for only 2 days at Madhuban Toyota
Day 1 - Kurla, Monday 19th Dec 2022
Day 2 - Lower Parel, Tuesday 20th Dec 2022
Test drive car will not be available.
Lakozy Toyota, Malad, Mumbai has received a display model as well. Don't know the exact details, till when will it be on display as of now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sandeepmdas
(Post 5457931)
In addition to what you have added, let me humbly remind your friend (and other fence-sitters) that the Innova Hycross has not yet been crash-tested. Anywhere in the world as on today. Agreed, chances are it may perform very well when it get tested, but one cannot take it for granted especially w.r.t with the Indian version.
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Valid point, however I hold Toyota in higher esteem than maruti and Hyundai on this aspect. But better be cautious till we get test results.
Quote:
Originally Posted by extreme_torque
(Post 5457980)
I dont know how you define better but Hycross is faster to 100 than XUV700, will be more than twice as efficient in city driving and in all probability last longer than XUV700. Being a Hybrid there are less things to go wrong - No alternator, no starter motors, no pulleys and belts to run the A/C compressor and long brake pad change intervals because 90% of the braking is done via regen. Its not just better, it is comprehensively so.
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Let me add some more details to my point. However its all subjective and not completely objective opinion, so we may have to eventually agree to disagree. :)
I have driven a strong hybrids (toyota, ford) fair bit during my US trips and I have to say the only engaging part of the drive is the initial 20-30kmph range where electric torque is felt prominently and beyond that its generally a very neutral driving experience. Despite being as fast as its petrol counterpart, the fun to drive factor is surely lower. From that standpoint here's my comparison
- Power/Perf - Both XUV and Hycross are about ~200BHP and also have similar <10sec 0-100 sprints but the way XUV turbo petrol would drive will surely be lot more engaging and fun esp on highways. So nothing that makes Hycross stand as better except maybe fraction second faster but we will wait for side for side test for that. Someone on youtube will surely take care of this drag race
- Efficiency - No contest here, hycross is better. I expect in mixed driving of city/hwy condition Hycross would be 50% more efficient but you gota spend 10lacs more upfront
- Reliability - This is bit debatable. Cause in my view a petrol engine is a very reliable piece of tech currently. Turbo petrol does add some risk but again tech is very well proven. In a well maintained car when did you last hear that a pulley went bad or belt broke. I don't agree that hybrid reduce complexity. Infact hybrid car has battery, BMS, lot more electronics, electric motors, complex power train to handle both engine and motors. What you save on one end just gets negated with additions on other.
As a tech hybrid is better than just pure petrol engine, yes only cause of efficiency and better environment
But spend 10lac more, lose some of the turbo petrol fun for it, big NO lol:
Quote:
Originally Posted by supertinu
(Post 5458344)
- Reliability - This is bit debatable. Cause in my view a petrol engine is a very reliable piece of tech currently. Turbo petrol does add some risk but again tech is very well proven. In a well maintained car when did you last hear that a pulley went bad or belt broke. I don't agree that hybrid reduce complexity. Infact hybrid car has battery, BMS, lot more electronics, electric motors, complex power train to handle both engine and motors. What you save on one end just gets negated with additions on other.
As a tech hybrid is better than just pure petrol engine, yes only cause of efficiency and better environment
But spend 10lac more, lose some of the turbo petrol fun for it, big NO lol:
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The reliability aspect is not only related to the petrol engine, Mahindras also have a poor record of frequent electrical and mechanical niggles. That extra 10 lacs would give you better comfort, far better reliability and after sales (read - not having to tweet to Anand Mahindra for every small issue), better resale value and peace of mind, better plastic quality, lesser downtime, fewer to no recalls, etc. Taking the car back to service station the next day of delivery has been made the norm by brands like Tata and Mahindra with issues like silver box replacements, blank or laggy displays, inconsistent power delivery, suspension noise, DPF issues and the list goes on and on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by supertinu
(Post 5458344)
I have driven a strong hybrids (toyota, ford) fair bit during my US trips and I have to say the only engaging part of the drive is the initial 20-30kmph range where electric torque is felt prominently and beyond that its generally a very neutral driving experience. Despite being as fast as its petrol counterpart, the fun to drive factor is surely lower. From that standpoint here's my comparison
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If fun to drive is a major criteria, I dont think you should be looking at a high riding people mover or an SUV. Mahindra and Toyota's aren't highly regarded for their handling either.
Quote:
Originally Posted by supertinu
(Post 5458344)
- Power/Perf - Both XUV and Hycross are about ~200BHP and also have similar <10sec 0-100 sprints but the way XUV turbo petrol would drive will surely be lot more engaging and fun esp on highways. So nothing that makes Hycross stand as better except maybe fraction second faster but we will wait for side for side test for that. Someone on youtube will surely take care of this drag race
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Engaging perhaps yes (but still subjective) but if you are going to drive XUV700 for performance, get ready for really low efficiency figures. I reckon something like 7-8kmpl in the city or even lower. We are talking about a 2.0l Turbo Petrol lugging 1.7 tonnes of metal.
Quote:
Originally Posted by supertinu
(Post 5458344)
- Efficiency - No contest here, hycross is better. I expect in mixed driving of city/hwy condition Hycross would be 50% more efficient but you gota spend 10lacs more upfront
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I was purely talking from "which has the better powertrain" perspective. We still dont know the prices yet but it is a given that it would cost more than Mahindra.
Quote:
Originally Posted by supertinu
(Post 5458344)
- Reliability - This is bit debatable. Cause in my view a petrol engine is a very reliable piece of tech currently. Turbo petrol does add some risk but again tech is very well proven. In a well maintained car when did you last hear that a pulley went bad or belt broke. I don't agree that hybrid reduce complexity. Infact hybrid car has battery, BMS, lot more electronics, electric motors, complex power train to handle both engine and motors. What you save on one end just gets negated with additions on other.
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Reliability is not even debatable. Toyota hybrid's are some of the most reliable cars around. Even forgetting the hybrid component altogether, there is still a Toyota NA 2 litre petrol engine running the show and if I had to put money on which engine would be more reliable - a 2.0l turbo petrol with direct injection from a Mahindra or a NA 2.0 petrol from Toyota, I would put my money on Toyota every single day.
To top it off, in hybrid's case the engine is not even running half the time when driving in the city limits and is getting electric motor assist when taking off, the most strenuous part of the driving cycle.
As for hybrid's complexity, Toyota's system fairly straightforward and ingenious.
On a fundamental level, it is just a planetary gear set being fed by an electric motor and a NA engine and the same planetary gearset is also the gearbox. The system has a set of 2 electric motors (MG1 and MG2), a motor generator which also acts as starter and a traction motor which drives the wheels and helps with regen. It does not even have a reverse gear - the reverse is handled by running the electric motor in opposite polarity.
Compare that to an XUV700 which has a fairly sophisticated turbo petrol engine running direct injection (DI engine's have long term issues with carbon build up) connected via belts and pulleys to an alternator and then a clutched air conditioner unit, a starter motors with the drive then connected to an automatic gearbox with its own complexity with 6 forward gears and 1 reverse. I dont know how the engine would survive the Indian fuel and driving conditions (dusty and hot) long term.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVd-ZS5bnyY
Quote:
Originally Posted by extreme_torque
(Post 5457980)
Being a Hybrid there are less things to go wrong - No alternator, no starter motors, no pulleys and belts to run the A/C compressor.
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When the battery is fully discharged
How would the vehicle start?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aditikpurohit
(Post 5458974)
When the battery is fully discharged
How would the vehicle start?
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As the engine starter battery under the hood is seperate from the hybrid motor battery under the front seats.. The car would still start as a petrol car
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sankar
(Post 5458041)
Woah! Second row gallery seating was one of the highlights of the old and new BoF Innovas. Second row is placed a bit higher than the first row with excellent view out of the window. In these pics above the second row seat base of the Hycross is at about the same level as the first row. Window line is
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Hence, it would be interesting to see how the bench seat works out in the VX model. I don't expect the height to be different but the under thigh support would be something to watch out for.
Since govt has started levying 22% cess on SUV's. And from previous iterations Hybrids already attract a 15% cess. Will there be a 7% increment or 22% of cess increment on this?
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