[nomad47]

The Brezza was criticized for the 5 speed manual transmission with the K15C engine, which made it rev higher at higher speeds. Is the same carried forward to the Grand Vitara?

[learning_cars]

Great review! Don't think its a perfect car but it gets a lot more right than wrong I feel. Happy about finally getting strong Hybrids in mainstream cars in India and the price for Hyryder was definitely lower than my expectations.

While, I don't think its enough to dethrone the Korean dominance the new Jap cousins should take the second spot and make things worse for the Germans. I do have a feeling the Toyota version might do better than the Maruti(due to perceived brand image) and if it gets a 4/5 star NCAP(hoping 5) the Koreans would have a lot to fear.

Originally Posted by nomad47

The Brezza was criticized for the 5 speed manual transmission with the K15C engine, which made it rev higher at higher speeds. Is the same carried forward to the Grand Vitara?

I fear all evidence points to this. I don't know why they couldn't make the gearing for Brezza like Celario where the 5th gear was made properly for cruising and it does so at a much lower RPM at high speeds.

[Abhisheknott]

This vehicle sure does not deserve the Grand Vitara moniker. The S Cross looks to beat this in interior space and am not sure whats the point of having all grip with a weak engine/gb combo. Apart from the hybrid no reason to chose this over the Astor/Creta/Seltos. But maybe there is a different target audience....

[pradeep_mvpa]

I wish this vehicle looked like the original Vitara. Would have beaten the Seltos hands down in looks!

Being a prospective buyer from this segment, I can tell that this car will be a hit.
These are my thoughts on why. Let's look at the cons first -
1. Less power figures compared to rivals - A lot of Creta/Seltos are running with 1.5L engine which churns out 115bhp. In comparison, Grand Vitara power figures are pretty decent. Remember, cars like old i20s, Duster and Tata Punch lacked the outright punch. But all of them were/are huge success in market due to the value they offer in other aspects.
2. Boot space - It is still a well-shaped boot. This means 2 big bags can go in easily. Couple of smaller bags can go under the floor tray. If you need more space, just leave the parcel tray at home.
3. Price comparable to a Honda city eHEV without ADAS (as mentioned by another member) - Agree that it is not exactly a VFM pricing. But, end of the day it is a SUV and it commands a premium compared to a sedan. And in Honda city, you can't add boot space by removing parcel tray.

Now look at the pros -
1. Although no official word about GNCAP results yet, it is a stable platform and can expect 4 star rating at least.
2. Fuel efficiency
3. Reliability - Maruti and Toyota generally make reliable cars
4. Service network - the best
5. Sunroof - Will make most customers happy. Thin roofline will make some unhappy. Applying sun film may help.
6. Drivability in city is very good. Handles potholes well too. To me, this is a very important advantage.

Overall, this is a very good package which does most of the things correct.

[07CR]

Originally Posted by pradeep_mvpa

1. Less power figures compared to rivals - A lot of Creta/Seltos are running with 1.5L engine which churns out 115bhp. In comparison, Grand Vitara power figures are pretty decent. Remember, cars like old i20s, Duster and Tata Punch lacked the outright punch. But all of them were/are huge success in market due to the value they offer in other aspects.

Don't think this is the right comparison. Reasons-

• Seltos HTX IVT costs significantly lesser than the GV/Hyryder @ 18.21L vs Hyryder V @ 22.49L (OTR Pune). While this is the topmost 1.5 IVT trim of Kia, this is also not the highest selling trims. Most people go for a Seltos HTK+ iMT costing 15.4L. Hyryder/GV for similarly specced variant(G Hybrid) will cost 20.73L. This delta of 5L is too huge to ignore. When the asking price is 20.73L, I am not sure the mindset of the buyer is similar to a 15L~ car buyer. In such scenario the performance expectations would definitely rise.
  
  
• Same case about the point you made about the old I20, Duster and Tata Punch. All these cars cost significantly lesser, and the buyer of that price band is not looking for great performance from their car(even for the segment).

[John s]

Excellent review!!! , high standards being maintained. YouTube reviews esp AWD demonstration appears more like an advertisement rather than an unbiased opinion!!!

Looks being subjective , Grand Vitara is a good looking car in my opinion. I was holding off my car purchase thinking about Hyryder or Grand Vitara. Being built by Toyota was also an important reason. To top it all, true SUV being offered,“AWD”. This even Germans are not offering in this segment.

Unfortunately, it has been very disappointing, the engine offered being grossly underpowered compared its rivals. Interiors carried from lower segments. Apart from size and features it does not offer any premium. I suspect it was a deliberate move to keep the cost and maintenance low.

I don’t think Hyryder or Grand Vitara will have an impact on Korean or German twin’s sales.
I hope they will offers other engine option( sourced from Toyota eg Yaris’s engine), different interiors ( to avoid part sharing from other lower segment vehicles).

Nevertheless, it will sell. Considering the sales of Breeza, increase in the price has not made any dent in its sales figure. I think Grand Vitara will outsell Breeza. I have seen the new version of Breeza , interiors are below par compared to outgoing S Cross. Grand Vitara is really good package ,overall for non enthusiasts who want Japanese brand for obvious reasons(good mileage, value for money, cheap spare parts, reliability, resale value,).

I was thinking of AWD variant but I have dropped the idea. I am avoiding Korean for safety reasons and German’s for reliability/niggles. I just booked Honda city 4 gen V variant ( silver/modern metallic steel) and my sister 5 gen V variant (pearl white). They offer VFM , considering the current market.

[tarmacnaut]

Originally Posted by 07CR

Don't think this is the right comparison. Reasons-

• Seltos HTX IVT costs significantly lesser than the GV/Hyryder @ 18.21L vs Hyryder V @ 22.49L (OTR Pune). While this is the topmost 1.5 IVT trim of Kia, this is also not the highest selling trims. Most people go for a Seltos HTK+ iMT costing 15.4L. Hyryder/GV for similarly specced variant(G Hybrid) will cost 20.73L. This delta of 5L is too huge to ignore.

Yes, I agree, 1.5 NA of Kia Seltos should be compared with 1.5 NA of Grand Vitara/Hyryder. Strong Hybrid is one of a kind premium offering. But, If we compare that way Grand Vitara/Hyryder will be more value than Seltos.

Assuming AWD adds 2L and automatic adds 1.5L - the price of Hyryder neo-drive V AT (top end, mild hybrid petrol AT) should be around 16.5 lakh ex-showroom which should translate to on-road price of around 19.5 lakh so difference is not 5 lakh.

The Equivalent Grand Vitara Alpha AT will cost around 40-50,000 lesser than Toyota and should be closer to Kia Seltos (18.21L) costing around 19 lakh, but offers extras like panoramic sunroof, 6 airbags, safer platform (unstable shell in Kia), better automatic (TC vs CVT(iVT)), higher mileage, 360 cam etc. which should close the gap.

And people not wanting Sunroof, 360 cam can go for Zeta AT which should be Cheaper than Seltos 1.5NA IVT, while if one steps down a variant in Seltos, Kia offers only iMT below HTK variant. So buyers of highest selling iMT Seltos have a better option now and will sway towards Grand Vitara Delta/Zeta AT as it offers true automatic with 17 inch wheels and rear disc brakes (yes, Kia cuts down big and offers only 16 inch wheels with rear drum brakes in the highest selling iMT variant).

[nomad47]

Originally Posted by 07CR

Don't think this is the right comparison. Reasons-

• Seltos HTX IVT costs significantly lesser than the GV/Hyryder @ 18.21L vs Hyryder V @ 22.49L (OTR Pune). While this is the topmost 1.5 IVT trim of Kia, this is also not the highest selling trims. Most people go for a Seltos HTK+ iMT costing 15.4L. Hyryder/GV for similarly specced variant(G Hybrid) will cost 20.73L. This delta of 5L is too huge to ignore. When the asking price is 20.73L, I am not sure the mindset of the buyer is similar to a 15L~ car buyer. In such scenario the performance expectations would definitely rise.

I for one was looking forward to the Grand Vitara/Hyryder. Hoped against all odds that the strong hybrid will come around 15L. It did not. There is no incentive for me to go for the Mild Hybrid car instead of a Seltos Diesel. Almost similar operating cost (fuel economy wise), better performance in the Seltos.

Originally Posted by tarmacnaut

The Equivalent Grand Vitara Alpha AT will cost around 40-50,000 lesser than Toyota and should be closer to Kia Seltos (18.21L) costing around 19 lakh, but offers extras like panoramic sunroof, 6 airbags, safer platform (unstable shell in Kia), better automatic (TC vs CVT(iVT)), higher mileage, 360 cam etc. which should close the gap.

And people not wanting Sunroof, 360 cam can go for Zeta AT which should be Cheaper than Seltos 1.5NA IVT, while if one steps down a variant in Seltos, Kia offers only iMT below HTK variant. So buyers of highest selling iMT Seltos have a better option now and will sway towards Grand Vitara Delta/Zeta AT as it offers true automatic with 17 inch wheels and rear disc brakes (yes, Kia cuts down big and offers only 16 inch wheels with rear drum brakes in the highest selling iMT variant).

Seltos iMT is available only on HTK+ trim. Also Seltos has disc brakes in all 4 wheels and 6 airbags as standard. 16" wheels is a stepdown definitely, should have been 17"

[tarmacnaut]

Originally Posted by nomad47

Seltos iMT is available only on HTK+ trim. Also Seltos has disc brakes in all 4 wheels and 6 airbags as standard. 16" wheels is a stepdown definitely, should have been 17"

Last I checked Seltos iMT does not have rear disc brakes, cheaper alloys and just 4 air bags. Below is a screenshot from the IMT variant review, it was uploaded just a month ago by Faisal Khan in his YouTube channel

If Kia did add 2 airbags and rear disc brakes in the recent upgrade, then the price also should have also be increased. This again makes Grand Vitara Delta/Zeta Automatics more desirable than the highest selling Seltos iMT

[nomad47]

Originally Posted by tarmacnaut

Last I checked Seltos iMT does not have rear disc brakes, cheaper alloys and just 4 air bags. Below is a screenshot from the IMT variant review, it was uploaded just a month ago by Faisal Khan in his YouTube channel

If Seltos did add 2 airbags and rear disc brakes for 2023, then the price also should have also be increased by Kia

Seltos comes with 6 airbags and all wheel disc brakes from base variant itself. In fact it comes with all the electronic features (Brake assist, Hill assist control etc) from base variant itself.

Link to the forum news here . iMT version price was increased by 30k couple of months back if I recall correctly.

[tarmacnaut]

Originally Posted by nomad47

Seltos comes with 6 airbags and all wheel disc brakes from base variant itself.

Seems Kia made these changes only this year. All these years they were not offering rear disc and 6 airbags for IMT. Maybe it is the launch of Grand Vitara made them do this. Still no 17" wheels though.

Originally Posted by nomad47

In fact it comes with all the electronic features (Brake assist, Hill assist control etc) from base variant itself.

Maruti also offers hill hold assist and esc as standard even in base variants of Grand Vitara (Even in Brezza base model).

Thing is , Kia still does not offer proper automatic below HTK+, so Grand Vitara still has an edge, offering Automatic right from Delta variant (1 variant above base model). So this should really hit IMT Seltos sales.

[josephilip]

Personally, I really like what Maruti has done with it.
It looks good, has a lot of features and should be pretty safe. Now the car doesn't cater to the performance minded people like me. But, if someone asks me for a good SUV around the 20 lakh mark, I can easily suggest this car or its twin the hyryder without an asterisk.

The Germans have direct injection turbo petrols and the 1.5 has the dsg which are not renowned for their long lasting character.
The Korean twins also have some deal breakers like the lower crash test rating (although I take them with a grain of salt), questionable reliability of the turbo petrols and dct gearbox.

I hope Maruti brings their boosterjet engines to India to quench the thirst for power. Also i think they knowingly avoided 6sp AT with allgrip to protect the Jimny when it comes out.

[PaddleShifter]

To all who are comparing Seltos with the Grand Vitara/HyRyder on the basis of price.

Seltos is more SUV than Grand Vitara/HyRyder combined. The interiors are superior in the Seltos as well. But, the price difference is not as large (5L mentioned in post quoted below) as is being made out to be because Seltos/Creta are 3 star (barely) rated cars while Grand Vitara/HyRyder are speculated to be atleast 4 star (based on Brezza ratings which is also built on the same platform). When the crash ratings of Seltos/Creta came out, the entire forum was disappointed. People started removing Seltos from the short list because of this factor.

Originally Posted by 07CR

This delta of 5L is too huge to ignore.

At 20 lacs, people have an option of MG Hector, Tata Harrier as well but the reliability record of TATA is nowhere near Maruti/Toyota. MG has so far shown to be an excellent option.

[Chetan_Rao]

Originally Posted by ajayc123

...

25 km pure EV range for strong hybrid that was widely publicized by all media at the time of launch. I am still curious about Toyota/ Maruti's response on this, but they have been maintaining a calculated silence on this. Some Youtubers claimed about 1.4km, but I am still curious about the reality.

We did not test specifically for this (not enough time), but the <1kWh battery, combined with other factors like petrol motor kicking in when battery goes low or speed goes above 40 kmph, it's difficult to imagine this car doing anywhere near that sort of number even with EV mode selected.

Real world, expect to seen the petrol motor kick in every now & then to top up battery when driven sedately, or provide power directly when driven beyond the EV mode speed threshold.

I am curious about is whether the mileage gain is limited to congested city driving. Or will it really give substantial advantage during highway cruising too ? Should we be careful in our breakeven calculations if the highway mileage gains are not substantial?

Some journos drove the car to Delhi at the end of the event, and are claiming high range. We don't know the exact conditions they drove in so won't comment on specific numbers, but from our observations during the Hyryder and Vitara drives, the hybrid powertrain should be capable of long tank range when driven sedately.

Originally Posted by 07CR

...
I am curious to know how does the strong hybrid performance compare with the sub 4 meter CSUVs? Say the Sonet 1.0 IMT/Nexon 1.5 D/Ecosport 1.5D?

It's fantastic getting up to 80-100 kmph and cruising there, but it won't be a match to the 1.5L oil burners' cruising ability beyond that.

Originally Posted by rr06

...What car should be chosen between Grand Vitara & UC Hyryder. Differences are minuscule & its just the looks that makes the difference?

It's really just down to which design and brand one prefers.

Originally Posted by nomad47

The Brezza was criticized for the 5 speed manual transmission with the K15C engine, which made it rev higher at higher speeds. Is the same carried forward to the Grand Vitara?

We didn't get to drive the Smart Hybrid 5MT at this event, but the 6AT we drove for a little while felt exactly as lethargic as the XL6 we'd driven at launch, so unfortunately it does seem like there's no tweaks to the powertrain at all to accommodate the larger, heavier CSUV form factor.

Originally Posted by PaddleShifter

...
Seltos is more SUV than Grand Vitara/HyRyder combined...

One area where the Grand Vitara has the Koreans beat is ride & handling. We were pleasantly surprised with its composure both on rough roads and through corners/undulations. The mods who reviewed the Hyryder had similar observations.

[Eddy]

Originally Posted by rr06

Great review! What car should be chosen between Grand Vitara & UC Hyryder. Differences are minuscule & its just the looks that makes the difference?

Full Hybrid - Toyota will be cheaper
Mild Hybrid - Maruti will be cheaper