[kushagra452]

A partial price reveal - now we have seen it all (I hope!). The way things are moving, I guess it won't be long before a car launch will stretch over 12 months (the less said about the waiting period the better!).

As expected, Toyota has overpriced the Hyryder by at least 2 lakhs (across variants). VFM pricing was never Toyota's forte. However, I won't be surprised to see MSIL also trying to do a 'Toyota'. Gone are the days of sane pricing. Sigh!

Let us not forget that both the GV and the Hyryder are 3 cylinder engines with just about 'OK' BHP figures. Combine this with the restricted head room and a small boot, this product might struggle to sell after the initial euphoria dies down.

In any case, with the way prices are moving across OEMs, buying a used car is making helluva lot of sense now.

[Sabrish]

They just did a Citroen! I mean the C5 is "French Toast", safely assuming DOA!

With the larger folks knowing its a rebadged Maruti, Toyota should have been sane in their pricing strategies.

The little interest I had just washed away looking at the pricing.

Why is India always taken for granted by a few companies

[SedateGuy]

Originally Posted by Sabrish

They just did a Citroen! I mean the C5 is "French Toast", safely assuming DOA!

With the larger folks knowing its a rebadged Maruti, Toyota should have been sane in their pricing strategies.

The strong hybrid seems to be reasonably priced. It's the mild hybrid which has shocked me. To the extent that I am thinking there may be some mistake in it.

[Audik75]

I had compared Brezza pricing on launch to Venue / Sonet and reckoned the Toyota-Maruti twins strong hybrid top-end variant would be priced slightly above the Hyundai / Kia diesel top-end variants. In that regard, pricing is on expected lines.

I guess there is a market for this as primarily an urban vehicle with limited highway driving. Clearly this isn’t a car for spirited driving but would serve urban driving conditions well. Brezza ownership reviews indicate the car is really smooth on accelerating to 80kmph and am expecting slightly better dynamics from the strong hybrid up to 3-digit speeds.

For urban dwellers with limited highway mileage, the strong hybrid is likely to tick most boxes in terms of comfort and is going to be competitive against the Korean diesels.

[Vid6639]

Originally Posted by SedateGuy

The strong hybrid seems to be reasonably priced. It's the mild hybrid which has shocked me. To the extent that I am thinking there may be some mistake in it.

Very true. 17.09L for the mild hybrid is crazy. I just checked the price and compared to the top end XL6 it is 2.5L more. I don't even know for what. XL6 is more spacious, same ventilated seats infotainment, engine gearbox. So what exactly is the reason for 2.5L for a car that shares most of the parts.

Infact if you pay 40-60K you get the top spec Carens petrol turbo DCT or diesel 6AT.

The Hybrid has a USP but the mile hybrid has no USP at all vs the competitors to be priced higher.

[RT13]

Wait, I’m just utterly confused by all these variants and the overlap between mild hybrid variants of this, the Grand Vitara and the Brezza. Are they all the same engine and drivetrain but in different packages at wildly different price points?? Is there no more Urban Cruiser? Or if there is, do all 4 models share the same innards (for the mild hybrid)?? What an utterly bizarre system and even more insane way of rolling it all out.

We are in the market for a decent, mid-size, manual, faux SUV for my folks who are on either side of 70. We will not touch HyuKia because of their attitude to safety. They are also dead against VolkSko for their reliability or lack thereof - obviously they’d value peace of mind over everything else. Which essentially leaves us with these two brands as Honda (my Dad’s and my favourite brand) has simply decided to abandon the segment. And maybe the Citroen although that has some glaring gaps and no real top end version. But how does one chose between all this?! I mean I can’t even understand it, I don’t know how to explain it to them. I guess we’ll either just wait and see or go with the old-S Cross. Crazy how there seems to be so much choice and yet so little.

If only that damn Jimny would launch!

[ellip5i5]

Originally Posted by nevin007

Although many feel that Brezza is over-priced. Brezza falls in a segment below Creta/Hyryder.

Agree that the Brezza is a segment lower.

If you were to pit the Hyryder against the XL6 which shares mechanicals, it would fall in the same segment. The XL6 is arguably more spacious and hence I find it it hard for the Hyryder to justify the premium.

[dr_TJ]

Originally Posted by Vid6639

Very true. 17.09L for the mild hybrid is crazy. I just checked the price and compared to the top end XL6 it is 2.5L more. I don't even know for what. XL6 is more spacious, same ventilated seats infotainment, engine gearbox. So what exactly is the reason for 2.5L for a car that shares most of the parts.

The Hybrid has a USP but the mild hybrid has no USP at all vs the competitors to be priced higher.

Exactly. Grand Vitara Alpha MT & AT mild hybrid misses out on Ventilated seats and TPMS which are very useful, most of the times. XL6 Alpha+ gets these two features. But misses out on a Panoramic Sunroof (Which is not very useful most of the times) but gets a roof mounted AC which is very useful all the times. Say, Grand Vitara is 50K less than equivalent Hyryder with Mild Hybrid setup, still, its Alpha AT mild Hybrid is way more expensive in my eyes. Absurd and greedy pricing.

I guess I better cancel my Grand Vitara Zeta AT mild Hybrid booking and stick to my ScorpioN Z4 D AT Introductory price booking.

Off-topic, Considering these sort of pricing, Jimny 5 door 4X4 AT will be 18-20 Lakhs on-road

[SedateGuy]

Originally Posted by dr_TJ

I guess I better cancel my Grand Vitara Zeta AT mild Hybrid booking and stick to my ScorpioN Z4 D AT Introductory price booking.

I am in the same quandary as you having booked exactly the same Grand Vitara as you. IMHO It wouldn't hurt to hold onto the booking for a little while more till Maruti announces the prices for is variants.

Let Maruti enjoy our 11k for a little while more.

[anti21]

Originally Posted by Torque_Curve

*Rant begins*

But this sheer stupidity of announcing prices for select variants is just pushing people's patience IMHO. First, the teasers (multiple of them) for a stretched period, then unveiling on one day, media drives a few weeks later, an embargo on them lifting another week or so post the drives, and now prices for select variants.

*end of rant*

I completely agree, this is the worst car launch I've ever seen. I can't remember a car launch that was this bad. Whoever is behind this (and Grand Vitara's launch) needs to change their job domain completely.

[tiagoatrix]

In a country like India, I believe that strong hybrids are an alternative to Diesel engines only if they are priced on par with their diesel counterparts.

But, that hasn't been the case with the Japs here, they assume that hybrid is some kind of magic that Indians will fall for, even at a premium.

Diesel Creta is about 50% of the models sale, at about 21 lacs, one can buy a powerful engine which offers a fuel efficiency Close to the claimed mileage of this hybrid engine, which sounds vague on paper.
Not to forget the compromise in boot space and additional battery expenses.

Strong hybrid engine adaption will depend mainly on the real world fuel economy.

It is hard to imagine that one will drive home a 3cyl NA for 20L on road.

No manufacturer is a Saint, if Koreans are giving you unsafe cars, Japs are day robbing you.

[RRU]

As I speculated previously, clearly the problem is more for MSIL than for Toyota. The latter is pushing its strong hybrid keeping the mild-hybrid ones loftily priced while maintaining the prices of strong hybrid (its own TNGA product) fairly competitive (absolutely not for me if I do proper math) for city SUV users primarily, whether diesel or petrol. So, if they have hitherto received 75% of pre-booking for strong hybrids then now this proportion will increase to near 100% - there is no comparable product in Toyota stable that its strong hybrid or mild hybrid will overlap with - likely on road price of G variant of strong hybrid will be INR22L, which is equivalent to Crysta petrol base variant, but the latter is altogether a different segment. That said, when paying Rs.22+ lakhs for a city SUV, people will not compromise on boot space, lower headroom in rear seats and somewhat cramped space for fifth passenger not to talk of NVH at higher speed and somewhat lack of grunt.

For MSIL, its XL6 and Brezza will compete with its own Grand Vitara mild hybrid. Members here have already opined - I agree in toto - on any day, I will prefer the VFM XL6 any variant over the Grand Vitara (MSIL version) or Hyryder. As far as the strong hybrid of MSIL is concerned, I don't thing the revenue arrangements between the two partners will allow MSIL to keep the prices lower than that of the comparable product of Toyota - here Toyota has advantage - of course, there are die hard fans of both the companies who would anyways buy their preferred OEM's car.

Problems are cost, scale and margins - cost is dependent on scale and indigenization - which can happen over time. They could have played on margins upfront if they really wanted to make inroads into this fiercely competitive segment. "kitna deti hai" is fine, but here it asking a big premium upfront for higher FE over time - this USP alone is not enough IMHO.

Let's see how customers respond.

[hummer]

Here is the on road price at Bengaluru, shared by my SA at Ravindu:
A&B Segment Price List KA_9th Sept 2022.pdf

[dr_TJ]

Originally Posted by SedateGuy

I am in the same quandary as you having booked exactly the same Grand Vitara as you. IMHO It wouldn't hurt to hold onto the booking for a little while more till Maruti announces the prices for is variants.

Let Maruti enjoy our 11k for a little while more.

Yes, will wait for Maruti to reveal the prices of the Grand Vitara as a last hope. Was even planning to upgrade my booking to Alpha AT because Leatherette seats and 360 cam. But this pricing of Hyryder V AT mild Hybrid has ruined everything.

Originally Posted by tiagoatrix

No manufacturer is a Saint, if Koreans are giving you unsafe cars, Japs are day robbing you.

Loved this sentence.

Poor Highway performance of the Strong hybrid is a big downer. I can't be bothered to carefully calculate and plan a overtake especially on our undivided highways with the proper Hybrid. Whereas previously on my Ecosport AT, a few taps on the Paddle shifters and off I go. On my Thar Diesel AT, hard on the accelerator pedal and it just completes the overtake.

[tarmacnaut]

Originally Posted by tiagoatrix

It is hard to imagine that one will drive home a 3cyl NA for 20L on road.

No manufacturer is a Saint, if Koreans are giving you unsafe cars, Japs are day robbing you.

Small correction, it is not just 3 cylinder NA, it has an additional electric motor producing almost same power that works in tandem. It gives torque boost (not assist) till 4000 rpm and operates 60% of the time below 4000 rpm (that's what reviews claim) increasing efficiency as well. So, it is essentially a reverse of turbo petrol, where boost/efficiency increases at higher rpms.

IMO, It is much better than diesel or turbo petrol for city usage with limited highway runs especially in a metro like Bangalore where traffic is hectic and roads are ridden with potholes.