[Rambo-RS]

Originally Posted by NAVREVV

Attachment 2277868

By looking at the above document shared by Bhpian NAVREVV, it can be noted that the height mentioned even for the base variant (with 15-inch wheel) is the same as other variants with 16-inchers. But how can this be possible? Quoting some stats from one of my previous posts below:-

Originally Posted by Rambo-RS

But now when I read it carefully again, I found out that the bottom 2 variants of 1.5L Petrol (Premium and Prestige) are being offered with 15-inch wheels instead of 16 inches. The problem is not a lower-sized wheel, but a narrower tyre with even the tyre profile unchanged i.e 195/65/R15 instead of 205/65/R16. (This info can be found on page 8 of the official brochure)

This leads to a deviation of obnoxious 6%, which is way higher than the normally accepted 2%. This also is leading to a very low ground clearance i.e 19mm lower!

So effectively, the ground clearance of the base 2 variants (1.5L Petrol) is 176mm. Can other members please check if what I am stating is correct, or am I missing something?

Regards
Ranvir

[venkyhere]

1.5NA v/s 1.4GDI --> adds 100kg
1.5NA v/s 1.5D-VGT --> adds 150kg

Not just that,
MT -> DCT adds 30kg
MT -> AT adds 30kg

just automation of gearbox adds 30kg ?
just turbo-fication (stronger engine walls, different conrod, crank, head, turbo, intercooler, pipes) adds a whopping 100kg ? what is the weight of the 1.5NA engine to begin with ?

I seriously suspect intentional fudging of weight numbers. There is something going on here. Otherwise how hard was it to just provide the kerb weight of the different variants of the car, like every other manufacturer ?

[Meph1st0]

Originally Posted by fhdowntheline

I just wonder why there should be a 100 kg difference between 1.5 NA and 1.4GDl manual when there is only a 50 kg difference between the 1.4 GDI and the 1.5 Diesel. All essential safety kit is the same across the variants, so assuming that structural changes next to nil. Is a turbo petrol engine that much heavier because of the turbocharger?

The weight difference between 1.4GDI and 1.5 NA is 55kg in Seltos. Similarly 1.5 Diesel is 55kg heavier than 1.4 GDI. One would expect a similar difference in Carens.

Moreover, gross weight of Carens should be Seltos weight + additional weight due to increased length + additional passengers. This logic also does not seem to hold good for the data available from the manual.
Most likely Kia does not publish the correct weights or does not proofread or is not concerned about weights at all. For instance, Carens diesel AT is heavier than MT whereas Seltos Diesel AT is lighter than MT.

[fhdowntheline]

Which country's Seltos are you referring to here ? As far as I know, there is no diesel IMT Seltos on sale in India.

[Meph1st0]

Originally Posted by fhdowntheline

Which country's Seltos are you referring to here ? As far as I know, there is no diesel IMT Seltos on sale in India.

Could be a typo by Kia. The picture is from the Seltos owners manual available at Kia India website - link

[Knightrider]

I booked the 1.4L Petrol DCT Luxury Plus Carens yesterday. We were looking for an upgrade option to our 1st gen Ertiga and Carens matched our requirements perfectly. Ertiga has spoilt us for the space and seating flexibility it offers. So a 7 seater was a mandatory requirement, even though not all 7 seats are occupied always.

It is really difficult to find a replacement for such a VFM car. Since our budget was max 20L, not many options were available with so many features. XUV700 was rejected due to long waiting period and lack of sliding middle row seats. Common, even the Triber comes with sliding 2nd row. Safari was a stretch of budget and felt too big in size to drive in the city. So Carens was a perfect fit for our requirements of space, size, flexibility, features and budget.

Reason for selecting the 1.4L Petrol DCT Luxury+ variant:
Although the mid variant Prestige+ had all the necessary features, had to stretch to Luxury+ for the sunroof which was my kid's must have requirement. Our monthly running being less, Diesel was not an option.

This will be my 1st automatic. Hope DCT issues are not there anymore.

[chirag08]

Originally Posted by achintatri

Hi Chirag, I am in a fix too now having researched about the DPF issues in Diesel Engine.

Peace of mind comes at a higher cost than the product itself

Hey Achint,

DPF issues are going to be there in any diesel BS6 vehicle no matter the manufacturer,from what I know the issue is more pronounced in smaller capacity diesels. I saw a video sometime back that in the Creta if you press the 'OK' button on the steering wheel for 20 seconds the car goes into auto regeneration mode, dont know if the same feature is available in Kia, maybe you can ask the Service team when you talk to them.

Dont the let the DPF issue hold you back in case you are keen on buying the diesel.

[Sebring]

Request you to please share that video. Regen is usually related to battery.

Originally Posted by chirag08

I saw a video sometime back that in the Creta if you press the 'OK' button on the steering wheel for 20 seconds the car goes into auto regeneration mode, dont know if the same feature is available in Kia, maybe you can ask the Service team when you talk to them. Dont the let the DPF issue hold you back in case you are keen on buying the diesel.

[chirag08]

Originally Posted by Sebring

Request you to please share that video. Regen is usually related to battery.

Here is the link, kindly watch from 4:50 minutes.

https://youtu.be/X5FyhQ1RUcI

[achintatri]

There is another video for Kia Sonet DPF regeneration and it looks like KIA Cars have this facility built in for all their diesel cars. (I would request all the diesel KIA car owners to confirm the same if they can please).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hpyHFDb7B4

After going through numerous threads and talking to few KIA Service Advisors, I would like to share my findings on the DPF issues (or rather how to handle the same).

1. The emission (unwanted) in the BS6 engines is controlled either by filtering the waste through a DPF (Diesel Particulate Filter) or by treating the waste in a Catalytic Convertor with Adblue as a catalyst
2. Now Adblue is supposed to treat the waste efficiently since it's a chemical that is helping the waste to burn efficiently with normal engine temperatures
3. However for DPF equipped vehicles, this waste is in the form of soot (basically carbon) that needs even higher temperatures to burn in the absence of any chemical or catalyst (like Adblue which is basically urea)
4. That means that those diesel engine vehicles that are equipped with DPF system instead of SCR (Adblue) in case of KIA vehicles including Carens have to periodically achieve these high temperatures to burn the soot(carbon waste)
5. This can be achieved by making sure that the Engine achieves that high optimum temperature for a certain amount of time either by regular long runs and a minimum rpm/speed (e.g. avg speed of 60-70 kmph for an average timespan of 25-35 mins) OR by making sure that these high engine temperatures are achieved while idling (something that the attached video shows)
6. Overall, there are methods available to take care of the DPF issues and I am taking the liberty to assume that in next couple of years, there would be diesel fuel and or engine oil additives that would further make sure that these manual dpf regenerations are further reduced on top of the current usage with BS6 low sulphur content.

Hoping to have a better experience with my Kia Diesel AT that should arrive soon :-)

[84.monsoon]

Originally Posted by Rambo-RS

So effectively, the ground clearance of the base 2 variants (1.5L Petrol) is 176mm. Can other members please check if what I am stating is correct, or am I missing something?

This is not accurate. The tire section height is 65% of the width in both cases. So the tire sidewall height will be 133.25 CM for the diesel and Turbo-petrol variants and 126.75 CM for the Petrol NA engine equipped variants. So this leads to a difference of 6.5 CM on the tire section height.

However, you need not multiply by 2 to get the height difference for the vehicle overall, or the difference in ground clearance, as the axle is mounted on the center of the wheel - so only one side of the tire matters in determining the total height difference or the ground clearance difference between the cars. To this, add 1.25 CM to account for difference in wheel radius.

So the ground clearance and height of the 1.5 NA vehicles will be less by 7.75 cms, if Kia did nothing else like raise the suspension of the NA engine equipped vehicles. Assuming the GC of the Turbopetrol and Diesel models is 190 CM, it will be ~182 CM for the NA Petrol vehicle, which is not too much of a compromise. Cleverly, Kia has not mentioned Ground Clearance on the brochure, to sidestep this exact question.

The speedometer deviation/variation would have already been taken care of in the calibration so this should not be an issue.

However, I feel Kia should have given 195/70/R15 tires in the lower NA variants. This would have made for an even more cushy ride while maintaining the same or slightly more ground clearance, this is a commonly available tire size and would not have costed Kia much more to provide.

Originally Posted by akannath

Has anyone driven the 1.5 P version or come across reviews of test drive of the same? Keen to understand whether it would be capable of transporting when fully loaded with 7 people. 5 adults shouldn't be a problem I guess.
Any pointers would be appreciated. Seltos owners might have a better idea. Thanks.

Have not seen a single test drive or ownership update on the 1.5 NA. My guess is that Kia will not prioritize production and deliveries of these variants, given the lower profit margins due to the introductory pricing below 10 lakhs for these variants. The 1.5 NA Petrol Smartstream engine should perform very well in lower speed city driving conditions, as they do not have to counter with the Turbo lag. When driving a Seltos that a friend has, I found the NA engine very smooth and noiseless, it handles the duties of driving in start-stop traffic perfectly well. It may actually fare better than the 1.4 Turbo in such conditions, as all of the reviews of the Carens 1.4 Manual I have seen so far, mention that it has noticeable turbo lag below 1500 RPM. The DCT seems to mask the turbo lag reasonably. When it comes to highway driving, the NA engine should be good for sedate cruising. 0-100 times are also impressive at 11.5 seconds, faster then vehicles like the Harrier and Safari and much faster than the Ertiga/XL6 which take upwards of 13.5 seconds for the same run. However when fully loaded, I feel overtaking and hill road manners will leave some wanting on the Carens NA petrol.

[abhishek46]

Originally Posted by achintatri

1. The emission (unwanted) in the BS6 engines is controlled either by filtering the waste through a DPF (Diesel Particulate Filter) or by treating the waste in a Catalytic Convertor with Adblue as a catalyst
2. Now Adblue is supposed to treat the waste efficiently since it's a chemical that is helping the waste to burn efficiently with normal engine temperatures
3. However for DPF equipped vehicles, this waste is in the form of soot (basically carbon) that needs even higher temperatures to burn in the absence of any chemical or catalyst (like Adblue which is basically urea)
4. That means that those diesel engine vehicles that are equipped with DPF system instead of SCR (Adblue) in case of KIA vehicles including Carens have to periodically achieve these high temperatures to burn the soot(carbon waste)
   

I thing there is some confusion here.

It is not an either DPF or SCR scenario.
Both are different, and are used for different purpose.

BS6 exhaust treatment has two additional compulsory stages over and above the BS4 era.

1. Soot Removal
This is done using a DPF filter.
This DPF filter is found on each and every BS6 Diesel.

2. NOx Removal
This is done either by using SCR (using Urea spray) OR by using LNT (Lean NOx Trap) process.
The LNT works only in small diesel engines of 1.5L or less, it does not use urea.
The SCR is used in large diesels and all CVs like trucks etc.

As you can see, the DPF is a part of the 1st Step, and is a mandatory item.
It does not share any either-or relation with LNT/SCR.

[Meph1st0]

Originally Posted by 84.monsoon

This is not accurate. The tire section height is 65% of the width in both cases. So the tire sidewall height will be 133.25 CM for the diesel and Turbo-petrol variants and 126.75 CM for the Petrol NA engine equipped variants. So this leads to a difference of 6.5 CM on the tire section height.

However, you need not multiply by 2 to get the height difference for the vehicle overall, or the difference in ground clearance, as the axle is mounted on the center of the wheel - so only one side of the tire matters in determining the total height difference or the ground clearance difference between the cars. To this, add 1.25 CM to account for difference in wheel radius.

You have messed up the units there. The difference in the sidewall height is 6.5mm. The additional height due to wheel radius is 1.25cm. So the total difference is 1.25cm(12.5mm)+6.5mm = 19mm

[achintatri]

Originally Posted by abhishek46

I thing there is some confusion here.

It is not an either DPF or SCR scenario.
Both are different, and are used for different purpose.

BS6 exhaust treatment has two additional compulsory stages over and above the BS4 era.

1. Soot Removal
This is done using a DPF filter.
This DPF filter is found on each and every BS6 Diesel.

2. NOx Removal
This is done either by using SCR (using Urea spray) OR by using LNT (Lean NOx Trap) process.
The LNT works only in small diesel engines of 1.5L or less, it does not use urea.
The SCR is used in large diesels and all CVs like trucks etc.

As you can see, the DPF is a part of the 1st Step, and is a mandatory item.
It does not share any either-or relation with LNT/SCR.

Thanks for the correction Abhishek! Considering I am looking at Carens right now, my entire focus is on DPF

[84.monsoon]

Originally Posted by Meph1st0

You have messed up the units there. The difference in the sidewall height is 6.5mm. The additional height due to wheel radius is 1.25cm. So the total difference is 1.25cm(12.5mm)+6.5mm = 19mm

Good catch!! You are right - this means there will be a significant difference in GC of almost 20 MM. I am sure Kia would have done some other changes such as suspension settings to compensate for this, as it is too much of a difference variant to variant.