[Durango Dude]

Originally Posted by pseudo_coder

For me, it is very comfortable at the front seats. But the rear seats bounce a lot on potholes and even more on bumps.

I beg to differ, I tried the 3rd row in the by roads leading to a temple in a village near Kumbakonam, I pretty impressed with the ride quality. 35 psi was recommended by the sales advisor at the time of delivery and I've stuck with it and works well. Though the recommended pressures are pretty low like 33 front and 31 back (light load), & 34 front and 35 back (full load) that will even dull the throttle responses further I think. When the car was delivered the tyre pressures were as usual 40psi all round and despite that the ride was pliant and I didn't alter the pressures and it slowly came down to 34 all round and since I was going on a trip inflated to 35 psi all round as it was full load. I must say the TPMS is working accurately as I've noticed.

[mrwalker]

Ye olde vehicle, the venerable SX4's (2009) registration is going to expire later this year so am on the look out for a suitable replacement/ improvement. As you read down you will start wondering why I've posted this in the Carens thread, but please be patient.

Have some standard and some quirky (?) requirements
- No sunroof: with apologies to all who like this feature, I think its insane in our climactic conditions (lots of heat, dust and rain), not to mention the consequences of failure
- Automatic: Preferably TC, CVT, but not DSG or AMT.
- Safety: 4-6 airbags, decent crash test rating, prefer headrest and 3 point belt for second row middle seat
- Space/ size: SUV/MUV that can sit 5 comfortably - 3 adults (son is 18 and the tallest at 6'), 1 15 yr old, 1 senior citizen - with a good amount of storage. Not opposed to a 7/8 seater as well, as long as its not too huge (for ref SX4 length x width is 4500mm x 1735mm). One main requirement is that if I'm driving, my son should be able to sit behind me in comfort.
- Ease of ingress, egress and comfortable seating: Me and parents both need this in spades, them due to advancing age and me due to back etc
- Fuel: Prefer petrol with hybrid or diesel, petrol only with auto being a recipe for huge bills
- Running: Mostly Pune city (~90%), with occasional highway runs to Lonavala, Mumbai and once a year further to Alibag, Goa. I think we do less than 10,000 kms per year
- No touchscreen for non-media controls esp. aircon (am assuming media physical buttons on the steering wheel). Don't mind if the switches look plain, they need to be tough and wear resistant
- Budget: I'm loath to paying anything over 20 lakhs on road
- Comfortable and solid suspension, good ground clearance and underbody protection to tackle the things that are called roads in/ around Pune
- Would prefer IR/UV cut glass, ACC, rear vents/cooled seats, rear charging ports, rear parking camera and wired Android CarPlay. IR/UV glass for obvious reasons (albeit the SX4 has a 70% transmission 3M film on sides and back and never been stopped by cops - no film in front). ACC, have got used to it in SX4 but the missing rear vents/seat cooling make life difficult in peak summer. Don't have/use a rear parking camera and can mostly reverse park without it, but wouldn't mind having one. Would like to use Android maps, media, phone controls over the manufacturer provided ones.
- Am perfectly fine not to have a large touchscreen, fully electric MID, 360 camera, ADAS, cruise control, TPMS, puddle lights, electronic seat adjust, auto-folding mirrors, auto wipers/ headlights/ IRVMs, progressive turn indicators, wireless charging/ CarPlay, and the extended laundry list of gizmos that are becoming common in cars (the apt term, I believe, is 'basic b*t*h')
- Quite obviously I don't care about the performance, just that it should be able to handle overtakes and ghat sections on highways with 4 + luggage without too much hassle
- Have used all past vehicles (Wagon R, Activa 0G, SX4) for 14+ yrs so want something long lasting, reliable and fuss-free

Suprisingly, the first few requirements - no sunroof, automatic and 4/6 airbags - eliminate a lot of the competition in the SUV/MUV space. In any case me and the kids (well one is 18 yrs old and 6') set out for a exploration this weekend (no test rides, just checking out)
- VW Taigun: Too cramped and small boot. Touch aircon controls. Didn't like the smaller spare. Otherwise meets my no sunroof, automatic, high safety reqmts. Also checked out Virtus but my son's head touches the roof in the rear seat and its too low slung for easy access.
- Honda Elevate: Better space than Taigun, lower end without sunroof (R variant) has the auto and 6 airbags. Some discounts on offer as well. But couldn't move driver seat as far back as I wanted to get comfortable - salesperson's solution was to bring down the seat height, which moves it back (!). Shortlisted.
- Toyota Hyryder: Somewhere between Elevate and Taigun space wise. Lowest end hybrid has no sunroof, auto, 6 airbags, headrest and 3-point seatbelt in middle seat and plenty of other kit. Small boot space and high cost (20.5 lakhs on road) are a turn off as is the slightly higher step to get in/out. Shortlisted, maybe
- Hyundai Creta: No variant with automatic transmission but no sunroof. Space was on par or a little less than Elevate. Felt a little difficult to get in. Alcazar has the same 'difficulty getting in and no auto variant without sunroof' problem.
- Mahindra XUV700: Just one low end variant (AX3, 5 seater) with automatic transmission but no sunroof and 4 airbags. Decent space - except for last row but that doesn't matter as only 5 seater in scope. Very high step up to get in and quality of the interiors were a little disappointing. Shortlisted - or maybe not
- Nexa XL6: Space management was poor. Couldn't get into a good driver position and not comfortable in front or middle row seats due to lack of underthigh support, limited foot space. All auto variants have no sunroof and 4 airbags. Last row was OK but I don't see how we can fit in 5 people comfortably in this vehicle with the second row only having captain seats. Will check out Ertiga, but can't see any reason to shortlist this other than price (top end 17 lakhs on road). Also stepped into the Invicto (Nexa's Innova Hycross) for a bit - the front seats are fine but the second row is captain seats only and the batteries placed under both driver and front passenger seat make it impossible to seat 5 comfortably. A little mystified as to what's going on.
- Kia Carens: I was surprised that it has variants with no sunroof, automatic and 6 airbags - but only in diesel, not petrol (reading the brochure did not reveal this). A little wary of the GNCAP crash test report ('unstable body shell' and 3 stars). Space was amazing - can easily sit 5 in reasonable comfort without accessing the back row and even that is decent while leaving some space in the boot. Relatively easy to get in/out. Some aircon controls are touch but the main speed and temp controls have good buttons. No IR/UV cut glass but rear passengers get a pull-up screen. Rear vents till3 the last row but speed control in middle row. Well above budget by 1-3 lakhs. Very nice interiors (XUV700 and XL6 felt cheap in comparison) but I'm concerned how well they will last over 10-15 yrs. No headrest for middle seat, 3 point seatbelt for middle seat starts from seat back rather than body, which I find suspect. Size is 4540mm length x 1800mm width compared to SX4's 4500mm x 1735mm, which should be quite manageable. Shortlisted

So, coming to the grab-bag of questions I have - happy to receive any insight/ pointers on any of these:
- There are two variants I could go for per the salesperson - 'Carens D1.5 iMT Luxury 7' and 'Carens D1.5 6AT Luxury Plus 7'. Are these the only two Carens variants with automatic but no sunroof (the brochure makes this difficult to figure out)? Which is a better diesel auto in Kia, iMT or AT, in terms of driveability, mileage, performance or maintainenance? And is the 'Luxury Plus 7' worth 2 lakhs over the 'Luxury 7'? Per the brochure I would gain front seat cooling, auto wipers, paddle shifters, some other bits like a Bose sound system and '3rd row boarding assist handles' and some fluff like ambient lighting, door spot lamps, wireless charging and a 'Walk-In lever'.
- Kia BS6.1 diesels: Prospects for diesel vehicles outside Delhi and major metros, anything to be worried about policy-wise? Reliability and servicing/ spares for Kia diesels? How's the NVH? Any problems with Adblue use especially in city for short runs for several days?
- Any thoughts on the latest GNCAP crash test rating? Am a little confident that the 2024 3 star rating means its better than older 3 star ratings as GNCAP has upped its requirements but the 'unstable body shell' gives me pause.
- Kia sales and service (preferably in Pune): Any trouble getting PDI or outside insurance, high pressure sales tactics, phantom waiting lists or unnecessary hassle over variants/ colours? How's the service experience, cost of regular spares/service and cost/timeliness of getting frequent accidental spares (bumpers, head/tail lights). Any problems with warranty process?
- Facelift: Any idea when it would be and what is likely to change esp. re safety? Am also concerned that the facelift may not meet my 'no sunroof automatic' requirement though!
- Recommendations around outside insurance vs dealer/ Kia insurance, getting Fasttag by oneself, whether Kia extended warranty and RSA are worthwile, recommended Kia/ outside accessories, any coatings/ treatment to be applied, tyre change recommendations. The salesperson says they can get sunfilm fixed and provide a certificate of compliance but I know that's not really legal.
- Thinking of removing the tray table and air purifier behind the front seats in the long term to free up space. Anyone done that?
- Any other SUV/MUV or even maybe a sedan I should consider? Preferably not used.

Thanks!

[achilles101]

Originally Posted by mrwalker

So, coming to the grab-bag of questions I have - happy to receive any insight/ pointers on any of these:
- There are two variants I could go for per the salesperson - 'Carens D1.5 iMT Luxury 7' and 'Carens D1.5 6AT Luxury Plus 7'. Are these the only two Carens variants with automatic but no sunroof (the brochure makes this difficult to figure out)? Which is a better diesel auto in Kia, iMT or AT, in terms of driveability, mileage, performance or maintainenance? And is the 'Luxury Plus 7' worth 2 lakhs over the 'Luxury 7'? Per the brochure I would gain front seat cooling, auto wipers, paddle shifters, some other bits like a Bose sound system and '3rd row boarding assist handles' and some fluff like ambient lighting, door spot lamps, wireless charging and a 'Walk-In lever'.
- Kia BS6.1 diesels: Prospects for diesel vehicles outside Delhi and major metros, anything to be worried about policy-wise? Reliability and servicing/ spares for Kia diesels? How's the NVH? Any problems with Adblue use especially in city for short runs for several days?
- Any thoughts on the latest GNCAP crash test rating? Am a little confident that the 2024 3 star rating means its better than older 3 star ratings as GNCAP has upped its requirements but the 'unstable body shell' gives me pause.
- Kia sales and service (preferably in Pune): Any trouble getting PDI or outside insurance, high pressure sales tactics, phantom waiting lists or unnecessary hassle over variants/ colours? How's the service experience, cost of regular spares/service and cost/timeliness of getting frequent accidental spares (bumpers, head/tail lights). Any problems with warranty process?
- Facelift: Any idea when it would be and what is likely to change esp. re safety? Am also concerned that the facelift may not meet my 'no sunroof automatic' requirement though!
- Recommendations around outside insurance vs dealer/ Kia insurance, getting Fasttag by oneself, whether Kia extended warranty and RSA are worthwile, recommended Kia/ outside accessories, any coatings/ treatment to be applied, tyre change recommendations. The salesperson says they can get sunfilm fixed and provide a certificate of compliance but I know that's not really legal.
- Thinking of removing the tray table and air purifier behind the front seats in the long term to free up space. Anyone done that?
- Any other SUV/MUV or even maybe a sedan I should consider? Preferably not used.

Thanks!

I have a Luxury Plus 7 DCT. While i test drove the Diesel AT and felt it was quite nice with very good NVH, liked the DCT more.

Diesel 6AT is also available in Luxury(O) & iMT in Luxury plus I believe.
Choice between iMT and AT is a personal choice but iMT is cheaper by a decent margin. Also a good option for people who like the manual feel of shifting gears.
Variant wise if one can live without those features, then Luxury or Luxury O is a more sensible choice to save some moolah.
For me the extra features were worth it.
The Diesel AT is a Torque converter so reliability is also better. Mileage wise there shouldn't be much difference between iMT and AT.

Outside of Delhi, don't see Diesels having an issue. At the worst, same rules as Delhi may apply in major metros.

Kia dealers allow PDI. No hassles in that. Also no issues in getting outside insurance while they do try to push the insurance they sell through their partners. Insurance through policybazaar is almost half of the dealer quotes price for the same insurer (United India in my case) so one should go for that.

Sales experience is pretty good and they keep to their word on the timelines. Accessories can be chosen based on personal preference. My top suggestions would be mats, dash cam, door edge guard and sill guard and car cover.
Dealer will typically provide the fastag. With the new rules on auto recharge in the works by RBi, any fastag should be ok. In case dealer agrees on allowing fastag from outside, take ICICI fastag.

Service experience has been ok for the first service for me. Pickup and delivery from home.
Extended warranty is worth it.

Applying any sun film is illegal. Already there are sun shades in the Carens.

Any other MUV which comes close to the space in Carens and the driving experience is the new Innova Hycross but it is almost double the price.

[HillMan]

Originally Posted by mrwalker

- Any other SUV/MUV or even maybe a sedan I should consider? Preferably not used.

When I was researching to upgrade from Duster. I liked the Honda Elevate the most. Mainly the spacious seats for all 5 occupant, good boot storage and the Honda engine But i needed a 6-7 seater.

So XL6 and Carens were on my list.

Maruti has lost it with XL6. It is a very confusing package. The ride quality on 3rd row is not with talking. Ertiga felt like a better choice. I need to seat 6 adults. So XL6 was dropped.

Carens was spacious and comfortable to sit. But the engine felt very underpowered. The bhp torque numbers on paper seemed gross mismatch. On untared roads with inclination there were wheel spins. Mostly my drive will be in hills so this didn't make sense to me.
If you choose Carens, I'll suggest the AT variant.

I finally pushed my budget up and went with XUV700 AX5. Little less luggage space and features compared to Carens, but it gives a whole lot better vibes. The engine pulls a fully loaded car effortlessly.

[Time_Machine]

I feel XL6 suits your requirements very well. There is no other car that has UV/IR cut glass but not sunroof, can seat 6 in comfort, comes with Maruti's bullet proof reliability, awesome fuel economy, has TC automatic, etc

[jasonbourne]

There seems to be some issue with the latest ECM Upgrade performed on Kia Carens Diesel. Mine went for its 10K service last month. As a part of the service, ECM upgrade was performed. The Transmission Change Indicator no longer works post the upgrade; the upshift and downshift suggesting arrows were missing from the console. However, there were no other issues at all with respect to the performance or mileage of the vehicle. The current gear number is getting displayed as well.

Not sure how the Service centre guys missed it, but I noticed the issue the moment I took the car for a test drive after it was delivered to my home.

I reported it immediately and the service advisor requested to bring the vehicle, when possible. I took it the very next day. Then started their diagnostics and test drives. I thought they were going to simply update it again and get rid of the issue. But that was not the case since the update did not throw any errors in their diagnostic tools. I was there at the service centre for almost 2.5 hrs. At the end of it the Service manager came and apologised for the delay and confirmed that there was a bug in the ECM upgrade patch. The bug could not be found in any of their tools. After which they worked with KIA factory engineers, uploading the logs and it was found from the factory that there was a bug where in the guidance system (the upshift and downshift suggestion arrows) was not working.

At that time, only a small number of Kia Carens across India were impacted by this issue, as reported by the factory. I am still waiting for the updated patch to rectify this issue in my Carens. The last update from the service manager was that they are still waiting for the updated patch from factory and more vehicles are getting affected.

A few days ago, my brother-in-law had the same ECM upgrade done on his Carens, but he did not encounter this issue. I suspect I am the Lucky one

[HillMan]

Originally Posted by jasonbourne

A few days ago, my brother-in-law had the same ECM upgrade done on his Carens, but he did not encounter this issue. I suspect I am the Lucky one

The new generation vehicles are a lot software driven with lots of inputs from various sensors. These are very complex systems. There are changes with every variant and changes based on upgrades from OEMs for their components. Now what you face is your version of the car has a specific set of equipment configuration which was not tested by the developers. It is a failure on part of KIA engineers. The glitch you have can be simply because of an update to the messaging system that the instrument cluster does not subscribe to.
From drive-ability you should not have any issues as the critical components and software are usually isolated and designed to run with various fail safe measures. I am sure we will see a patch update for vehicles facing your scenario in a few weeks.

[jasonbourne]

Originally Posted by HillMan

The new generation vehicles are a lot software driven with lots of inputs from various sensors.

The perplexing part about this is not all the Diesel Vehicles are affected. Even another diesel vehicle of the same model as mine, produced in the same year, does not exhibit any issues following the upgrade. I suspect the issue may be due to a batch of identical model chips originating from a different manufacturer.

Spoke to the service manager today. The patch update is expected before the end of this month.

Originally Posted by HillMan

Carens was spacious and comfortable to sit. But the engine felt very underpowered.

I have a different perspective. I own an iMT Diesel Variant and have just returned from a trip to Munnar and Kanthaloor. Not once did the Carens felt underpowered. There were five of us, along with a substantial amount of luggage. We encountered gravel roads with steep inclines, yet the Carens managed them quite effortlessly.

[07CR]

Originally Posted by mrwalker

So, coming to the grab-bag of questions I have - happy to receive any insight/ pointers on any of these:

Carens makes sense for your use case. My other choice would be a Verna/City if you are fine with the ingress/egress. As a Kia Seltos Facelift (DCT Dec 2023) owner and Kia Sonet iMT owner (2021) from Pune can help with your questions-

This link will help you with variant comparison- https://www.kia.com/in/our-vehicles/...are-trims.html. The sunroof isn't available with Luxury + D AT. The iMT would have it though. I would go with the Luxury + since the price difference isn't huge, but the equipment list is quite comprehensive. OTR, the price difference is 1.4 L.

No idea on DPF, but in my limited research, with frequent short city runs, you might face DPF issues.

I believe GNCAP * rating should not be a criterion, since a lot has been discussed about their rating process and associated loopholes in other threads.

Fuss-free service and sales experience. I have serviced my cars at Crystal Kia, Aman Kia and Dhone Kia. Splendid experience all over.

They might provide better strengthening to the shell, just like they did with the Seltos and Creta facelift. ADAS too is expected and few more features. I suggest wait for it, even if it arrives and you are not happy with the sunroof variant, you can always ask for pre-facelift cars, which would also have healthy discounts.

I have been getting my insurance from Acko. I was firm with my dealer, they either match it or I would go with Acko. The dealer tried their best but could not match Acko.

Hope this helps!

[HillMan]

Originally Posted by jasonbourne

We encountered gravel roads with steep inclines, yet the Carens managed them quite effortlessly.

Good to know that. You are used to your car, have driven more and know it better
My impression is from 30mins test drive on a 2km stretch. I was driving a 2022 Diesel IMT Prestige Plus variant. It had run around 12000kms only. It was a well maintained car and I had booked it with Spinny. Cancelled it after the test drive.
I drove through some rough patches and good roads. Including stop and go on some muddy inclines. The Carens specs are higher than Duster and I was only driving two people in Carens. The suspensions and seating comfort on all 3 rows are great and it has decent boot space for a 7 seater only comparable with Innova. My brain was constantly comparing the drive with my Renault Duster 85PS 2013. The 4x2 Duster has taken me to places only 4x4 dare to go.

The wheel spins on mud/gravel inclines could have been the result of iMT choosing to release the clutch at its will. Or the lighter weight at the front. It was not confidence inspiring to me, given most of my long trips are to hilly region where roads are not all tarred and need to crawl at slow speeds. IMT was my first experience as well. I must say it was intuitive to use though. It will be boon in city traffic.

[SithDefender]

Originally Posted by mrwalker

- No sunroof: with apologies to all who like this feature, I think its insane in our climactic conditions (lots of heat, dust and rain), not to mention the consequences of failure

Sunroofs that can be completely closed, like the Elevate/Compass/Hycross are good, because you can close it when it's too sunny, dusty or rainy. Whereas the Hyryder/Grand Vitara are glorified nets that offer little respite from the heat. Driving down a series of curvy mountain roads with a panoramic sunroof in mild drizzle and watching those drops on the roof accompanied by good music and friends is a totally different experience. Of course, it's completely your wish!

Originally Posted by mrwalker

- Honda Elevate: Better space than Taigun, lower end without sunroof (R variant) has the auto and 6 airbags. Some discounts on offer as well. But couldn't move driver seat as far back as I wanted to get comfortable - salesperson's solution was to bring down the seat height, which moves it back (!). Shortlisted.

What an observation! Thx for sharing !

Originally Posted by mrwalker

- Hyundai Creta: No variant with automatic transmission but no sunroof. Space was on par or a little less than Elevate.

I would disagree with you here. I felt the Elevate was very spacious, what with Honda's incredible space management inside, but the Creta felt wider and had more shoulder room.

Originally Posted by mrwalker

- Mahindra XUV700: ... and quality of the interiors were a little disappointing.

Can you elaborate a little more on this? I felt the XUV had one of the best interiors in crossovers, and punches well above the price bracket. I even felt it had a better interior than the Invicto/Hycross. What did you feel was disappointing?

Originally Posted by mrwalker

- Any other SUV/MUV or even maybe a sedan I should consider? Preferably not used.

Citroen C3 Aircross can be tested out once, since it's the new kid on the block. As sedans go, the erstwhile Nissan Sunny was properly spacious, huge boot and no sunroof, with a reliable CVT that matched your choice of transmission. You should be able to get a great deal on used choices.

Originally Posted by HillMan

I finally pushed my budget up and went with XUV700 AX5. Little less luggage space and features compared to Carens, but it gives a whole lot better vibes. The engine pulls a fully loaded car effortlessly.

Excellent choice indeed! Was it the petrol or diesel version ?

[xbox360]

I ended up buying the Carens Prestige Plus optional Petrol DCT.

I am going to go in ambient lights over the weekend. Can someone let me know if Cardi lights are good or if there's any other brand that's better.
Also when installed, is there a switch that gets installed somewhere in the cabin to switch these off when needed or is it just via their app (that would not be as convenient in my view)

[HillMan]

Originally Posted by SithDefender

Excellent choice indeed! Was it the petrol or diesel version ?

Its a Diesel 7 seater Manual

[AutoDIYer]

Originally Posted by xbox360

I am going to go in ambient lights over the weekend.

I am also interested in installing ambient light. Please post details after the installation. Exploring the possibility of powering it directly from USB. Checked with few installers but no positive response so far.

[Carzy_Carz30]

Just to share, Recently a friend of mine, who also owe Kia Carens, got his car serviced in mid June and knowing my touch unresponsive issue coming after end of warranty period(two year), he told service advisor to update infotainment media software if available with them, so update was successfully carried out and done.

Upon viewing the updated software and firmware version on his Kia Carens, its updated to next version and mine car software and firmware version in infotainment media was old 2022 i.e. 220107 (see attach pic.).

Just to add to the knowledge of readers, I wanted to bring to light that an update for Kia Carens Infotainment media is available with service center.

Regards,

Carzy_Carz30.

Note: Just to brief in short, a part of my Kia Caren’s infotainment touch screen is unresponsive and out of warranty (as it past 2 year from my purchase date, even if extended warranty has taken), so Service Adviser then tried to solve it by updating software but update failed 3-4 times, and as infotainment media warranty was over, estimated amount Rs. 40k for replacement of infotainment media was then given.