[swunkjyn]

Originally Posted by hazchem

The first 6-year-old

A1 No, I didn't think so, but that can be subjective. At 90 in fifth, the engine is running at about 2k RPM

A2 I have not driven either of those cars recently, however, compared to their 5 -6-year-old avatars Gurkha is better.

A3 I would say they were effective, given that I lived to tell the tale. But don't expect the brakes to stop you on a dime

A4 Comfort is nice, the downside is no room for 5 the passenger

You have helped me in clearning a lot of doubts and whatever remaining one's are should be clear once I have driven the car myself. The comparison from Autocar between Thar and Gurkha does bring out the best in both the vehicles. There are some spots where Gurkha leads and some where Thar is the clear winner.

[hazchem]

Originally Posted by swunkjyn

The comparison from Autocar between Thar and Gurkha does bring out the best in both vehicles. There are some spots where Gurkha leads and somewhere Thar is the clear winner.

Just saw the comparison, they did a fair job. For me the choice was clear, I needed something that could carry a Family of four, with all our gear comfortably. Thar just doesn't offer that.

Yesterday, we even managed to stuff in 8 pax (4 adults x 4 kids) albeit for a short ride. Try doing that in a thar

[fhdowntheline]

One of the rare Autocar reviews that didn't sound "biased" to a good extent. But they should have concluded differently- that it depends on what you look for. There isn't always a "winner" in many situations. I feel the Thar and Gurkha are differently purposed vehicles within the genre. The Thar is more of a boy-toy for those who want to indulge in some off-roading thrills with relative ease. Whereas the Gurkha seems to be more of an overland/expedition vehicle, with luggage space and roof-rack and a generally more comfortable ride quality.

[hazchem]

Originally Posted by fhdowntheline

One of the rare Autocar reviews that didn't sound "biased" to a good extent. But they should have concluded differently- that it depends on what you look for. There isn't always a "winner" in many situations. I feel the Thar and Gurkha are differently purposed vehicles within the genre. The Thar is more of a boy-toy for those who want to indulge in some off-roading thrills with relative ease. Whereas the Gurkha seems to be more of an overland/expedition vehicle, with luggage space and roof-rack and a generally more comfortable ride quality.

This exactly!
Also, I refrained from commenting on @highwaypatrol post earlier. It was about body roll and ride quality. He did try to pull a fast one. The autocar video is for all to see with regards to ride quality.

[speedz]

I found the review pretty biased. Seems like a loaded dice sort of review. I love how the script has been written to gloss over Gurkha's strengths while highlighting the minutest weaknesses. If you pay close attention, it even goes as far as painting the strengths of the Gurkha in a semi-negative manner.

In stark contrast, when the Thar is mentioned, the unabashedly teenybopper worshipping is so evident. And suddenly the reviewer's lexicon undergoes a transformation.

The words 'seemingly' or 'seems' large describes the Gurkha? And in what parallel universe did the 'cramped' interiors of the Thar become worthy of being described as 'compact'? Talk about trying to color the negative into a positive.

And if that wheel speed sensing locker were to kick in at an inappropriate moment on a slippery downhill slope and I am headed towards the 1000 ft gorge with inches to spare, my goose would be well and truly cooked irrespective of how 'refined' a manner in which the Thar would have executed the 'kebabification' of my goose.

If this Autocar review is an example of an objective,impartial, and comparative review, I am Batman

[speedz]

I think it was Manuuj who had posted very early on, in this thread, that the Thar shouldn't be parked next to the Gurkha. Or maybe he posted that it is better for a Thar to avoid being parked next to a Gurkha. Autocar review proved him right by avoiding any such poses. I am no photography or videography expert, but didn't the panning or the camera seem overtly favorable to the Thar? I mean the angles etc in the glamor shots? Of course the contention from the fans might be that the Thar is so photogenic.

[indian21r]

I think we are derailing this thread by bringing Thar into equation. Even though both of them serve similar segments, both of them have their own strengths and flaws. Let's focus on the Gurkha and take this discussion to the comparison thread.

I will soon test drive the Gurkha and take a call wether to go for this or search for the extreme version.

Going via the boot to second row is something that still bothers me. How easy is the tumble down integration. Did anyone here plan for that upgrade.

[fhdowntheline]

Originally Posted by speedz

If this Autocar review is an example of an objective,impartial, and comparative review, I am Batman

The comparo is relatively better than some really obvious ones in the past is all I can say. In any case rooting for the Underdog is the signature theme of Batman

What's a bit mystifying is that there is not much from Force Motors by way of promotion on social or other electronic /print media. By now there should have been full page ads, TVCs during T20/IPL, annoying scrolling banners on leading websites et al during this festive season.

[speedz]

Something else that struck me as odd. In the past, Gurkha was made fun of and laughed at for having exposed/external door hinges. Well, the Gurkha has done away with those and gone upmarket while the Thar continues to use the same old or slightly rehashed archaic hinges from the Industrial Age. I am willing to learn if someone could dig up the invention date or the adoption date of these hinges for automotive use. Maybe Karl Benz or Henry Ford would feature in that chronology.

When Mahindra uses these hinges, they are acceptable and seemingly high quality. But when some other manufacturer uses the same, they are described as
"unacceptable in today's time and age or as quality and finishing leaves a lot to be desired".

Only difference is that, now, many reviewers have resorted to branding these hinges on the Thar 'cool', 'retro' and 'classic' and gush about how adorable they are and how they add character to the Thar. How much of this adulation is real and how much of it is feigned to placate or please Mahindra is anybody's guess. I guess they dare not talk ill of such a desirable feature. This must be an example of micro-brand-building of the door hinges and selling them as desirable, must-have examples of metal art/craftsmanship.

In the Autocar review, most of the time and effort was dedicated to Thar worshipping. The theme seemed to be, " briefly mention one aspect of Gurkha half heartedly and then rush to the Thar to hug it, mollycoddle it, placate it, and massage its ego". It felt like the reviewer was, sheepishly, saying to the Thar, " No, no I swear I like you more and I will sing false praises about you day and night and scream from the rooftops as well. Just that I have to accept some teeny weeny truths about that Gurkha, right? It's my job, you know".

So many reviewers have spoken so eloquently and written at length about how the Gurkha's plastic quality is 'poor'.
What constitutes 'rich' plastics? I would like to learn. Seems like a classic case of one reviewer parroting another. Most real world users seem to be happy with the quality and finishing of the plastics of the interiors and are stating.
Are these reviewers privy to some information about raw material sourcing, internal production processes, quality control, and rejection rate? Do they really know what they are talking about?

The Autocar reviewer also said something to the effect of Thar having refined mechanicals and Gurkha is raw? I guess less said about the perception he is trying to propagate, the better. Calling either the Thar or the Gurkha refined would be a testament to the richness and refinement of his imagination.

During the review, he looks like he is barely able to manage to squeeze himself into the Thar and the seat belt seems to be all that is managing to keep him from being flung about like a rag doll. This is in stark contrast with the Gurkha where he is able sit without scraping elbows shoulders and a lot else with the body panels etc. The rear seat of the Thar looks like the perfect recipe for the worst nightmare of a claustrophobic person.


Drive into any parking lot in the Gurkha and watch the Thar owners scramble in true fighter pilot fashion and bash each other over their noggins to find parking lots as far away from the Gurkha as possible. This applies to any other vehicle owner as well. Bruised egos and severe PTSD is guaranteed when you park any vehicle next to a Gurkha. Gurkha has a presence like no other. Thar has definitely been belittled in the stance perspective; its track-width is just not enough to overcome the magnitude of the Gurkha's height and dominating presence. Egoistic Thars (and other vehicles) will need life-long counselling, now.

The so called 'under-dog bit player' has shown itself to be a scrapper. I wonder how many lift kits, for the Thar and sundry other vehicles, will be hastily designed and fabricated overnight. I guess the welders at Bimbra and a zillion other fabricators will be busy with one more accessory for the Thar. Ever since it's introduction, Thar has spawned a micro-economy all by itself. I am sure thousands of metal workers, manufacturers and retailers must be lighting joss stocks and breaking coconuts to thank Thar. Gurkha has created a market for those lift kits now (for Thar and others).

Who knows maybe Mahindra or someone else might make affordable differential lockers for the Thar. Maybe Mahindra will offer snorkel as standard fitment. Maybe Mahindra will do a lot more to bring the Thar at par. Who know? Maybe Mahindra will stop covering for their lacunae, offer more in the Thar and not just 'rich quality plastics'. In either case we, the consumers, will benefit from this amped-up competition.

But, the whole country is gripped with a 'Thar mania' and maybe it ticks way more boxes than the Gurkha does. Maybe it's because of its perceived finishing, cleverly designed propoganda, quality and 'rich' plastics. Who knows why the market does what it does.

The 'perceived underdog' Gurkha has brought a lot to the table and surpasses the established Thar in many aspects, and many areas. That said, I am sure it can't take any sizeable bite out of the pie currently being devoured by the Thar. But, still, it did deliver a hard punch. Must be smarting or stinging a wee bit, eh? Have to love the little runt of a kid who managed to do that to an established champ who was busy posing and strutting around, eh?

Thar is a seemingly good vehicle, if that kind of quality and finishing is acceptable to you and if that's what floats your boat. Maybe in some ways its advertisments and packaging will act as a soothing balm to help heal the scalding injuries caused by feeling shortchanged after having seen the Gurkha.

[fhdowntheline]

The problem is that the Thar v1.0 was also a somewhat coveted machine, albeit crude. Plus one cannot deny the fact that brand Mahindra has successfully penetrated the mind space of those who can afford SUVs, courtesy the Scorpio and the 5OO/3OO series primarily. In contrast, Force Motors was and probably still is a nobody in the mind space of the neo-literate (in automotive terms) affluent consumer.
Its primary visibility is that of the Trax Cruisers in the rural areas and the Tempo Travellers. Their earlier attempts into the retail consumer space like Force One, went nowhere as we all know. And as it is being a niche product, the Gurkha always remained a much more obscure/ invisible product. Hence my point earlier about the surprising apathy towards marketing this new version which is decidedly more consumer friendly by design.

[Kosfactor]

Originally Posted by speedz

I found the review pretty biased. Seems like a loaded dice sort of review. I love how the script has been written to gloss over Gurkha's strengths while highlighting the minutest weaknesses.

If this Autocar review is an example of an objective,impartial, and comparative review, I am Batman

Good closing line there.

We must applaud Force for continuing to make Gurkha and not giving up on it like Maruti did with Gypsy.

But Force has gotten itself into a bit of a pickle actually, not having the right drive train combination is going to be a problem. Customer expectations have changed a lot over the years from what a lifestyle offroad vehicle should be.

[speedz]

Originally Posted by indian21r

How easy is the tumble down integration. Did anyone here plan for that upgrade.

It will not be an easy upgrade. The earlier variants of the Gurkha did have those seats. But since this is a new platform, even fitting one of those (if you were to source one) will involve fabrication work and might void warranty. Only option is to check with the service advisor if such a mod will be done by Force.

[speedz]

Originally Posted by Kosfactor

We must applaud Force for continuing to make Gurkha and not giving up on it like Maruti did with Gypsy.

Customer expectations have changed a lot over the years from what a lifestyle offroad vehicle should be.

Rightly said about them not giving up. For them to get here from their perceived "R&D hobby project" hasn't been easy.

I agree. Customer expectations have evolved quite rapidly in the past few years. And this evolution has been spurred, partly, by the vehicles that have been introduced by other manufacturers. I don't think even they are clear as how to position this product and who is their target demographic.

[Manuuj]

Originally Posted by speedz

Something else that struck me as odd....In shortchanged after having seen the Gurkha.

I agree with every line you wrote Speedz. Very well put!! The part about Thar owners scrambling to park their Jeeps far away from the Gurkha had me in splits!

At the end of the day though volumes tell a story and the Thar will always be up here thanks to their army of dealers and higher production capacity to meet the ever increasing demand.

The Thar is a grear product too ofcourse. No body is denying that. What I take an affront to is the Gurkha being cast as an inferior product.

Both cars were born out of a mix of necessity and passion and both hold their own.

I personally owned a 540 DP in the 90's when i was in college before the Thar even existed and i loved it. Got a hardtop done with AC and leather seats etc.

That is when i fell in love with SUV's and realised i could never be happy in a sedan.

The Gurkha has always intrigued me and frustrated me too. FM in view had done a lazy job with it earlier and thus denied the Gurkha its true potential.

I am happy to state that this time around they have hit it out of the park..

..and therefore I am plonking close to 16 big ones for it happily.

They showed commitment and so have I!

On another note i took delivery of the Alloy Rims and Tyres for my Gurkha today finally.



I think these Radar Rugged Terrain tyres and Plati Alloys rims will really suit the Gurkha.

[speedz]

Originally Posted by Manuuj

What I take an affront to is the Gurkha being cast as an inferior product.

This is exactly what I felt too. Every vehicle has its own set of advantages and disadvantages. Many vehicles might occupy the same market segment and share the same niche target audience. Yet, they might differ in their approach and execution of the purpose to meet the varied intended usage. And even one that has a million disadvantages will still be the perfect dream vehicle for hundreds if not thousands of buyers.

And when reviewers make statements that are so obviously meant to sway opinions while masking real facts, it does feel like they are insulting the intelligence of those who are reading/viewing the review.

And I wonder what it must take for reviewers to lie on video about ride quality when the video is busy proving them otherwise. Maybe the mini trampoline effect of the ride quality helps them put a creative spin on truth.