[vishy76]

Originally Posted by autounion

Let's try and avoid being negative. The posts have a distinct anti VW/Skoda vibe. There is no perfect car and we can find fault with any model on sale in India, if that was our only concern.

The Kushaq may not have the interior material quality we normally expect from Skoda yet the driving dynamics, engine, gearbox seem very much for the enthusiasts. Six airbags on the top spec model seems to be the most obvious issue now. Hopefully they correct this ASAP. They should be able to exceed they sales goals once this is done.

Let's get one thing very straight here. Neither me, nor Porsche_guy nor anybody else on this thread (barring very very selected few people who have been countered effectively) are coming to conclusions on this car without having a look at it or from the POV of a Skoda hater.

If you look at the three to four notable initial impression reviews on this thread, Bhpian Behemoth owns a Laura and has owned a Skoda Yeti, Porsche_guy has owned a Vento and I own a Jetta. It's not that we are fanboys here belonging to other brands either.

Lastly, the Kushaq has failed to live upto expectations. I put this as bluntly as possible, without caring whether it generates a positive or negative vibe. Both Porsche_guy and me are blunt and have a very keen eye for detail, but neither of us has been overly critical or biased in a negative manner towards the Kushaq. I see most if not all initial impressions on this thread having the same essence to them and I am glad. It's not teamBHPs job to sugar coat things, FB groups have done enough of it. I have praised the car where it deserved praises and criticised it where it was meant to be criticised.

Coming to the addition of 6 airbags, I don't think Skoda is doing us a favour by adding 6 airbags. I am paying top money for the top end automatic variant of your car. The least I expect is that it has the exact same features as the manual which costs around 1.5L lesser.

Finally, this car is overpriced. There's no two ways about it. It doesn't have the famed Skoda interior quality or the same hard wearing materials on even it's cheaper siblings, the turbo petrols have stiff competition from the Koreans as well now, it was anyways not going to set benchmarks for reliability and lastly, even with all the bragging about localisation, it's priced at a premium. They might as well have not localised it if they were looking to price it like this.

As hard as this is to digest, the Kushaq is a good car, not a great car. I see sales settling down around the 1.5-2K mark 4-5 months down the line once initial hype dies.

[rAijin_]

Originally Posted by porsche_guy

No. I mean that whatever qualities VW/Skoda brings to the table, it is in the end the Koreans who are successful in our market. The sales figures are just a testament to that fact.

Please tell me you are kidding.

Well, every company sets some targets they can meet, prepare logistics based on that and then take action on it.
VAG group has set target of 5% that too till 2025 ( Link ). Hyundai + Kia has a market share of 20.19 + 14.68 = 34.87% ( Link) as of April 2021.
So, expecting VAG group to compete with Koreans in India in terms of sale is wrong. No kidding.

Be it the strength of Koreans or even the Nigerians for all I care, what matters in the end is who takes the most money back to the bank and this is clearly where the Koreans are succeeding. I'm extremely confident that VAG can easily become the flag bearer of a feature list like nothing else but they just don't want to make an effort it seems. Infact if we see globally, VAG has much larger economies of scale so it should in theory be even cheaper for them to integrate more features.

Sorry to have offended you if that's what you feel but your original post actually screams of stereotypes and judgement.

Again, some stereotypes which can be grossly misleading and just going by these because somebody on the internet says that a Skoda car drives better is grossly misleading. Such general statements don't really make sense especially when we are delving into very scientific subjects. You can never be sure of a car's safety until it's been proven.

With all due respect to GTO, these are just rumours and not proof of anything.

I think the problem here is difference of Opinion. You want VAG group to build cars like VAG and provide features like Koreans ( Creta + Seltos; even though they don't provide full features list of each other as of now. ) and still compete in the same price bracket. Thats probably never going to happen.
I actually re-read my original post 3 times. I don't see any stereotypes and judgements!! Care to point out few? If saying VAG delivers cars that are safer and have better Driving dynamics than Koreans ( in India ) is judgement or stereotype, I'm sorry its quite a proven fact.
Kia Seltos scored 3/5 for adult safety and 2/5 for child safety ( Link). Having owned a VW Vento and personally reviewed Skoda Kushaq, you really want to compare Kia Seltos with Skoda Kushaq in terms of Safety?
Yes Kushaq has compromised in terms of interior quality and in terms of safety compared to internationally sold Kamiq. But, if you think Skoda Kushaq would score 3 or 2 in GNCAP, I believe its just being negative.
I believe you are completely disappointed with Skoda Kushaq and just want to negate anything in favour of Kushaq or VAG.

There is literally nothing identical between the Polo/Fabia and Kushaq/Taigun. Hell, even the logos have changed! Even in between both the cars, Fabia was based on the older PQ24 platform whereas Polo was/is based on the slightly improved PQ25.

Well, Polo and Fabia were sold in the same segment. Kushaq and Taigun will be sold in the same segment as well.
If you see my original post, I was comparing cars in the B-Segment ( Small Hatchbacks ) with Polo. Polo vs Baleno, i20 and even Fabia. And you said its like comparing Apple with Orange. How?
And if comparing Polo with other B-Segment hatches is like comparing Apple and Orange, comparing Kushaq with Koreans is also like comparing Apple and Orange. Hell, they have completely different cars and not just different logos.
Please try to understand the context before blindly negating everything.

Seems like the guy making the brochures has done a wonderful job convincing people of their "safety features"

I think the guy has done a great job. If you think Jeep Compass is not a safe car as compared to its competitors and the 50+ safety feature is just a gimmick, I believe you should learn more about the car rather than mocking it.

5k cars a month which means about 240,000 cars in 2 years on the roads.

No, you are wrong. 5k [Skoda + VW] cars a month = 120,000 cars in 2 years on the road. And just to give you the context, meanwhile Koreans ( Hyundai + Kia ) does 214,167 + 155,686 = 369,853( in one year) x 2 = 739,706 cars in 2 years ( Link ).
I hope you get the context of "Not so common" cars.

Here are the pics from the official review of the sunroofs of the WRV and Seltos. As you can see both have a very clean setup without any mechanicals exposed to the interiors and very minimal parts visible outside.
Attachment 2176628

Attachment 2176629

Originally Posted by porsche_guy

Here is the pic of the Seltos sunroof open and closed as seen from inside. Sourced from BHPian Amyth Prabhakar's review of his Seltos (The White Tiger - My 2020 Kia Seltos GTX+ 7DCT with all-black interiors : An Ownership Review)
Attachment 2176975

Attachment 2176979
And here is an image of the WRV

Attachment 2176978

WRV uses the same sunroof as Honda City and its mechanisms are exposed. Please don't share wrong information. It is visible even from the images you have shared.
Even Kushaq's sunroof in top view will not have mechanisms visible. So lets not show images from wrong context.
Seltos, I'll surely check and update.

Originally Posted by RahulNagaraj

Thanks to Xroaders for sending these in. Heartfelt gratitude for sharing it with other enthusiasts via this Team-BHP page!

I wish VAG would have improved the Interior quality rather than falling for this.

[CarguyNish]

Skoda Kushaq beside a Hyundai Creta.

Looks Small ? CERTAINLY NOT !!

[androdev]

Originally Posted by RPM1706

Anyone with a similar dilemma or can throw some light on the choice between these two manuals for a requirement which could be 70-30 in favour of highway driving? Driving style is not outright spirited but would, at least, like to get the kinda fun the Punto offers.

1.0 will give you good FE only under "ideal" driving conditions. If you are the type of the driver who loves to accelerate and tries to extract a lot from 1.0, it will give you very poor FE. All small turbo petrols have this issue.

Since you are not very keen on AT, my suggestion would be to get an MT and use the money saved to buy 1.5L engine. That will be a car for all seasons and for all types of drivers. Somewhat unintuitive but an enthusiastic driver will get better economy from 1.5L over 1.0L. As a bonus, you will get more refinement and stress free overtaking experience.

If you want to buy an AT, you would want to think about the long term reliability of the DSG and might want to prefer 1.0 AT just to avoid the potential DSG issues. If you can afford warranty and potential repair expenses, then you must absolutely go for the 1.5+DSG - it will take your breath away.

I think Skoda has done a good job of offering 1.0 with TC and 1.5 with DSG to give the choice of reliability vs fun-to-drive. I also feel they have given themselves some space to improve the package in future updates.

Crossover with good VFM or long term reliability: look elsewhere.
Crossover with good looks + good road manners: Kushaq
Crossover with good looks + good road manners + good fit and finish: Step up to the next segment

[pannags]

Excerpts from the just published review of the 1.0 TDI AT on CARANDBIKE.COM

The engine is the familiar three-cylinder motor we have seen on the updated Rapid, VW Vento and VW Polo. It delivers a tad more power on the Kushaq though - 5 bhp more i.e. - at 113 bhp. The peak torque's the same at 175 Nm. The gearbox options are also the same as on those cars (6-Speed automatic or manual). The idea was to build the engines locally to get economies of scale and drive the cost competitiveness back into the model's pricing. At idle the engine gives away its 3-pot status as you can a dull clatter. But that's pretty much almost the only time, otherwise I have to say the engineering team has done a great job! Great levels of refinement and engineering.

Turbo lag is obvious between 1000-2000 rpm and you need to downshift using the paddles for an immediate surge

The Kushaq is nice to drive and will feel modern and robust. Anyone worrying about whether a 1-litre engine can stand up proud in this compact SUV segment - may rest at ease - it does. But between around 1000 and 2000 RPM you can feel a little hesitation, and the engine's turbo lag is very evident. Some of that gets nicely compensated by the automatic gearbox I have to say. Between second and third gear, you will miss the punch too at times, depending on the speed or the response you are expecting. As a result, you do need to manually downshift using the paddles, or just kind of wait for the car to catch up to the performance you're looking for. That can be a little disconcerting. But otherwise, the level of refinement and performance that you get from this one litre engine is frankly pretty impressive. Had it not been skewed towards mileage - I think there would have been more punch from it.

Link to full article here

[porsche_guy]

Originally Posted by rAijin_

Well, every company sets some targets they can meet, prepare logistics based on that and then take action on it.
VAG group has set target of 5% that too till 2025 ( Link ). Hyundai + Kia has a market share of 20.19 + 14.68 = 34.87% ( Link) as of April 2021.
So, expecting VAG group to compete with Koreans in India in terms of sale is wrong. No kidding.

Then what do you compare the Kushaq's performance with? On One hand you're arguing that it squarely goes up against the Koreans and on the other you're saying that they aren't competitors?

I think the problem here is difference of Opinion. You want VAG group to build cars like VAG and provide features like Koreans ( Creta + Seltos; even though they don't provide full features list of each other as of now. ) and still compete in the same price bracket. Thats probably never going to happen.

Not true. What I want Skoda to do is choose a side. They haven't gone full out with features to please the masses and haven't retained the famed build quality for the enthusiasts and loyalists. As it stands right now, I see no particular quality that stands out in Kushaq over its competitors. On top of all this, it's definitely overpriced and that's been established time and again.

I actually re-read my original post 3 times. I don't see any stereotypes and judgements!! Care to point out few?

Here:

- I think if you like Feature list, go with the Koreans and if you like driving dynamics, you can look at VW/Skoda

.

- Coming back to C-SUV segment, Kushaq/Taigun are any day a lot lot safer than atleast the Koreans and MS

People who love the feature list that Koreans provide don't understand how a Skoda/VW C-SUVs can stand them with lesser feature list ( and size ).

If saying VAG delivers cars that are safer and have better Driving dynamics than Koreans ( in India ) is judgement or stereotype, I'm sorry its quite a proven fact.

Has the Kushaq been crash tested? You let me know and I'll retract my statement. It is a proper case of generalisation. Everybody thought the Seltos was a safe car with all the gizmos and driver aids when it was launched. What happened then? It fell flat on its face.

Kia Seltos scored 3/5 for adult safety and 2/5 for child safety ( Link). Having owned a VW Vento and personally reviewed Skoda Kushaq, you really want to compare Kia Seltos with Skoda Kushaq in terms of Safety?

Very much so. Being different cars on different platforms (Vento and Kushaq) I am quite curious what the Kushaq will score. Even compared to the Seltos I am eager to see the results and I will simply not give any sort of judgement on how safe or dangerous any car is. Let science take its course rather than the door "thud"

Yes Kushaq has compromised in terms of interior quality and in terms of safety compared to internationally sold Kamiq. But, if you think Skoda Kushaq would score 3 or 2 in GNCAP, I believe its just being negative.

I don't think anything. It could turn out to be a 2 star car or 5 star one for all I know. I think we should keep our mouth shut and let the crash tests do their talking when the results come out.

I believe you are completely disappointed with Skoda Kushaq and just want to negate anything in favour of Kushaq or VAG

.
Please go through my review once more and read how much I have praised the car in places. But just because I don't have the opinion that it's the best car ever built, it doesn't make me negative. Do check the car out for yourself first. Many other members have also reported similiar observations so then I guess the entire thread is negative? Only because it doesn't say what you want to hear it seems.

Well, Polo and Fabia were sold in the same segment. Kushaq and Taigun will be sold in the same segment as well.
If you see my original post, I was comparing cars in the B-Segment ( Small Hatchbacks ) with Polo. Polo vs Baleno, i20 and even Fabia. And you said its like comparing Apple with Orange. How?

You mistook my statement. The apples to oranges post was meant to compare the Polo/Fabia to Kushaq/Taigun in which case both the cars are from different time periods, have different platforms and have literally nothing in common.

Please try to understand the context before blindly negating everything.

Very ironic huh?

I think the guy has done a great job. If you think Jeep Compass is not a safe car as compared to its competitors and the 50+ safety feature is just a gimmick, I believe you should learn more about the car rather than mocking it.

I don't even want to argue with you here

WRV uses the same sunroof as Honda City and its mechanisms are exposed. Please don't share wrong information. It is visible even from the images you have shared.

It isn't close to how ugly the one on the Kushaq looks. Check out the car first

I don't want to engage in further whataboutery so this is it. Don't expect me to reply further

[Behemoth]

Well to answer to some of the critics who thought that my comments on the car were critical:
1) many of these aspects like the seat covers are very easy fixes for Skoda and they should have done a proper check before releasing the cars to the public. Hopefully they will spend 3-4k more on the car seats and fix this quickly

2) on the Style AT variants not having 6 airbags, they must do this correction and at the same price offer it with 6 airbags - might be a hit of 30-40k additional to them, but it is essential for them to have the right kit

3) on the plastic quality these are gradual improvement actions which they will do anyway soon

4) the Ac Compressor is something that needs to be upgraded. But initial users will have to suffer an underperforming ac, until they get enough complaints and upgrade the ac compressor units for all. They had done the same thing for my Yeti as it also had an underpowered compressor.

5) the engine tuning is also something that can be fine tuned further on the Kushaq with better maps from factory and also for better efficiency

Most of these aspects should be implementable from Skoda's side quickly and would feature on cars made say 3 months from now. So my recommendation to people who are really keen on the Kushaq is to hold off their purchase by 3 months and then but the improved cars which come in future lots. The initial lot buyers may have issues which will cause inconvenience to buyers.

[84.monsoon]

There is a lot of debate on this thread about the comfort of the fifth passenger in the rear seat of the Kushaq, as compared to other vehicles in the segment such as the Creta of the Seltos. While, I’m sure there will be some buyers who have a need to use the rear middle seat regularly, in our increasingly nuclear family set up, this is likely to be a smaller proportion. Most people are thinking about the relatively rare occasions where the fifth passenger may need to be seated and the comfort of knowing that the new car one buys will be able to accommodate this need, if and when it arises.

Between two similarly sized cars, accommodating a fifth passenger in one, would require compromises on the comfort and safety of the two main seats in the rear. I have found that generally, cars that have a wider rear bench also tend to have a flat seat structure and thinner doors to maximise lateral room and surface contact area. The Ecosport versus Brezza is a good example. The Ecosport has very thick doors and so does not accommodate a third passenger in the rear. The contoured seats for the two rear lateral passengers in the Kushaq seem to be well bolstered and very supportive for long journeys or while travelling through winding or uneven roads, as compared to say the Creta.

So the question is, would you rather have two rear passengers seated in comfort or have the same two passengers in relative discomfort every day, just in case a third passenger pops in for a trip or two, one fine day?

I think we need to focus on the one question that does get ignored - i.e, how often does the third passenger travel in the rear seat of the car and is the constant relative discomfort for the regular passengers every day and acceptable penalty to pay for the occasional inconvenience for the third passenger?

[NevGin]

Originally Posted by Behemoth

4) the Ac Compressor is something that needs to be upgraded. But initial users will have to suffer an underperforming ac, until they get enough complaints and upgrade the ac compressor units for all. They had done the same thing for my Yeti as it also had an underpowered compressor.

This is terrible. Can you elaborate some more on this please. The last thing anyone wants is an underperforming compressor causing more load on the engine.

Could this is the the start to the first set of modifications we see on a Kushaq in the aftermarket.

Redo the cushioning for the rear seat base and the back. Making them both flattish could help opening up some space on the sides as well as offering a little more comfort to the middle occupant. It might mean getting rid of the arm rest but I see that as very thin and flimsy anyway.

Since it has 3 point seatbelts in all three seats, occupants will still feel in place and won't need the bolstering to keep them comfortable.

MODERATORS - My apologies. Can you please merge this with the previous post.

[Behemoth]

Originally Posted by NevGin

This is terrible. Can you elaborate some more on this please. The last thing anyone wants is an underperforming compressor causing more load on the engine.

Well let me try to explain this based on my experience with the Yeti earlier. Basically what Skoda uses in its compressors is a VRF (variable refrigerant flow) compressor in which the refrigerant flowing through the AC system is regulated by the Temperature sensors and the AC control module. There are two issues here which happen:
The total compression volume of the compressor can vary from say 200cc in a small car and a large car may need compressors of 400-500cc volume but needs a lot more power from engine. A higher compressor cools the car better (like a larger Tonne rated AC). In the Kushaq, they have gone with the minimum viable size to reduce cost and also reduce the load on the engine - especially during engine idling - also they have reduced the Refrigerant flow even further at Idling to reduce load on engine and improve fuel efficiency. But the flip side of this approach is that at idle, the cooling is much lower and if you are stuck in traffic the cabin will start to heat up and become sweltry. However when the car gets moving it may become fine as the compressor speed increases and the refrigerant flow also increases. Also the cooling effect of ram air on the condenser also increases - so when moving the cooling might still be better.
This was what I experienced in my Yeti too even when new and eventually Skoda did a recall within 6 months of launch for all buyers and replaced the compressor with a better design/ higher capacity one. After that the cooling was fine. But this has been a constant problem in previous Skoda cars and even my Laura still has lower cooling at Idling (by design)
What other manufacturers do is use and electromagnetic clutch type Compressor which is much stronger and that cools the car better. Skoda also shifted to this design I think in the Rapid, but in higher cars they still use the VRF compressor.

There is an excellent technical thread on car ac systems which you can refer if interested.

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techn...ditioners.html (Understanding Car Air-Conditioners)
(ps: I am a mechanical engineer by education so please pardon the technical jargon!)

[NevGin]

Originally Posted by Behemoth

(ps: I am a mechanical engineer by education so please pardon the technical jargon!)

Thank you for that. What is even more wonderful is that you know what compressor they have put in there. This makes for a whole new discussion. A follow-up question to this would be would they use the same compressor on the 1.5 TSI? Many thanks from a fellow mechanical engineer.

[Pancham]

Originally Posted by Behemoth

2) on the Style AT variants not having 6 airbags, they must do this correction and at the same price offer it with 6 airbags - might be a hit of 30-40k additional to them, but it is essential for them to have the right kit

From a business point of view, I am still trying to figure out what would motivate the Skoda execs to increase the number of airbags from 2 to 6?

A. Increasing the airbags wont improve the NCAP safety ratings

B. Apart from the 4 of us in the forum, the larger population of India does NOT give two hoots about safety. Look at the sales figure of Seltos - still clocking 8-10K a month consistently. Adding airbags is an extra cost right? So what would actually make them spend this money knowing that we as Indians are not very conscious about safety at all (perhaps we are gradually becoming more aware). Its the hard truth and we should accept it.

From an overall 'positive-negative vide' perspective, I remember the Sonet received a lot a hate in the forum when it was initially launched. Look at it now. So lets wait for a few months to see how the market receives the Kushaq.

[Behemoth]

Originally Posted by Pancham

From a business point of view, I am still trying to figure out what would motivate the Skoda execs to increase the number of airbags from 2 to 6?

A. Increasing the airbags wont improve the NCAP safety ratings

B. Apart from the 4 of us in the forum, the larger population of India does NOT give two hoots about safety. Look at the sales figure of Seltos - still clocking 8-10K a month consistently. Adding airbags is an extra cost right? So what would actually make them spend this money knowing that we as Indians are not very conscious about safety at all (perhaps we are gradually becoming more aware). Its the hard truth and we should accept it.

From an overall 'positive-negative vide' perspective, I remember the Sonet received a lot a hate in the forum when it was initially launched. Look at it now. So lets wait for a few months to see how the market receives the Kushaq.

Not really, at least a Skoda Buyer considers safety as a key priority as these are not mass market cars from Maruti or Hyundai. But even in that segment people are becoming more aware.
Airbags is an active safety feature which can save lives in case of accident and go beyond just what the Ncap ratings tell us. NCAP generally tests the lowest variants of cars to check minimum safety levels - higher spec variants with more airbags will score higher for most manufacturers but are rarely tested.
A Skoda style 1.5TSI DSG buyer will definitely want 6 airbags when the 1.5 TSI manual gets it! The highest models will just not sell unless they do this. Generally the higher models are also the better margin earning models for manufacturers. On lower models the margins are wafer thin.

[amit1agrawal]

Not me but it looks like those who tweeted this, whether it was Skoda PR or overzealous salespersons, certainly seem to believe so.

Originally Posted by RPM1706

Wait. Are we seriously saying that these tweets are going to influence us so much to start buying cars that cost between Rs.12-20 Lacs??!! Really?

Whether it was a Skoda PR or overzealous salespeople getting customers to tweet this, both are just speculations till we get a confirmation in some way or other. Nor did I confirmed that it's Skoda PR but just indicated the possibility of it. I won't give too much importance to it so let's leave it there only.

Originally Posted by RPM1706

As NevGin pointed out, I tend to believe this to be the result of over zealous sales people getting shoppers at their showrooms to get on to Twitter and humour them with some charitable feedback. We see this all the time in hotels where the front office gets after you to log in/register on TripAdvisor and leave glowing reviews. It's not surprising to see many of them having joined TA just then.
!

[fiat_tarun]

Originally Posted by Pancham

From a business point of view, I am still trying to figure out what would motivate the Skoda execs to increase the number of airbags from 2 to 6?

A. Increasing the airbags wont improve the NCAP safety ratings

B. Apart from the 4 of us in the forum, the larger population of India does NOT give two hoots about safety. Look at the sales figure of Seltos - still clocking 8-10K a month consistently...

Well said. From an overall market point of view, it really does not make a difference. I honestly expected a dip in Seltos sales after the NCAP result whereas the reality is it had 'zero' effect. In fact there is a thread showing the Creta & Sonet structures has even less ultra high strength steel reinforcement (no UHSS at all in the Sonet) which logically makes it even less safe than the Seltos but again there is no impact on sales (even on the forum - and no disrespect to anyone's choice).

Whether we like it or not, safety awareness might be growing but it's still early days to have a real impact on the ground.

Having said this is still doesn't explain the omission of 6 airbags on the highest variants.

Overall with all the comments here, it reminds me of the new Figo / Aspire with Ford. They tried to take the middle ground compromising the well know Ford build that people liked and didn't really stand out anywhere else which ended up exciting no one and the market reflected that.

In this case, Skoda has set itself a very small target anyway (2.5k cars per month) which they will be able to achieve with this good but not great car.

Originally Posted by Behemoth

...
Airbags is an active safety feature which can save lives in case of accident and go beyond just what the Ncap ratings tell us...

Airbags are a passive safety feature as it comes into play after the accident. Active safety will be your ABS, ESP, etc. which help avoid the accident all together.