[adimicra]

Originally Posted by GTO

With the right engine options, all 3 are fun to drive. While the Kushaq might have the outright edge, the new Creta & Seltos are also pleasurable on the open road. I had a blast with the 1.4L DCTs of the Koreans, and also with the Diesel AT (although the petrols were more fun because of the power on tap + higher revs). Choosing between the 3 based on driving pleasure alone is tough because the difference isn't night & day. I think the final selection will come down to looks, brand preferences, pricing, dealership, features etc.

I wish I could have thanked you +100 for this post.
I haven't driven the Kushaq but based on my extended test drives of the Seltos 1.4 DCT, I found it very enjoyable to drive. The engine is punchy and refined and the DCT gearbox is smooth and fast shifting as well, though marginally slower than the VW DSG. Also, it handles really well for a high riding SUV. So, I don't think Kushaq will score a lot of points over the Seltos in terms of performance or handling.

I repeat the only USP of the Kushaq could be the safety aspect but Skoda has shot themselves in the foot by not offering 6 airbags in the top variant. Also, people who are giving Skoda brownie points for build and safety need to keep in mind that this car is built on a tailor made India specific platform, which was built to keep costs in check. So, unless there is NCAP crash test done on this car, we can only guess because we don't know what compromises have been made by Skoda/VW. The international Seltos has received 5* safety rating in other developed countries but it is clear that Kia has compromised on safety for the India specific car. And we have seen such examples in the past from Maruti, Hyundai and other manufacturers. So, it might very well be the case that Skoda too has cut corners and compromised on the safety of this India specific model. And if Skoda is so certain about their safety standards, what stops Zac Hollis and team to proactively get a crash test done and even use it to advertise the USP of the car? I guess Tata followed a similar approach for the Nexon as they were confident about the car's crash test safety. So far, nothing like that from Skoda...worth pondering I guess

[Rigid Rotor]

Here is an interesting read from a 2017 article in Autocar regarding the MQB A0 IN platform and the project as a whole:

https://www.autocarindia.com/car-new...s3WllAvS1o7SOE

Quoting an interesting bit in the article on the MQB being modified for India:

"The feasibility of the MQB for India will hinge on several factors. Firstly, the costs have to be considerably reduced. The reason this platform has proved costly for the Indian market is because it is packaged for expensive tech, like hybrids, full-electric drivetrains, four-wheel-drive and materials that meet the best European standards. Skoda’s engineers hope to ‘de-content’ the MQB by removing some of these systems which will reduce cost and weight. It is also likely that the high-tensile steel body panels which are hot stamped will be replaced with cold-stamped lower-grade steel, which according to a source “will still exceed the standards in the Indian market.”

Regarding sales targets, quoting:

"Economies of scale will be also key for the MQB’s feasibility, and though Skoda is tight-lipped about volume projections, suppliers have been asked to gear up for a production run of 4,00,000 to 5,00,000 units a year. Clearly, the Indian market cannot support such volumes, especially since both VW and Skoda have stated that they won't enter the budget end of the market. Hence, Skoda will rely on exports to meet these volume requirements and even sees an opportunity to enter new markets with the Indian product range.

First of all, we need a stable footprint in India itself, but in the future, we want to produce cars not just for the local market but also to export to other markets as well. Our footprint internationally is in 102 markets so far, and we are planning to be in 120 markets by the end of 2025. So, there are some markets which are interesting and are good for cars produced in India..."

[wilful]

Originally Posted by devilwearsprada

Well City has the thinnest sheet metal in class, you would actually be better picking the Ciaz.

Slightly OTT - I think by now most of us know by now that sheet metal thickness is not the big tipping point in safety. Else comparatively thinner sheet metal cars like the Triber would not score a 4 star in the GNCAP.

[civic-sense]

If I were in the market for a car in the 15-20L range, I'd definitely go for the Kushak over the Seltos and the Creta. Its a much nicer car, looks better, drives better and has a better brand image.

Why do every SUV have to undercut the Hyundais and the Tatas? Like why do every hatchback has to undercut or match the Maruti hatchbacks? If all you want is VFM, then you already have the Marutis and the Hyundais and the Tatas. Why do you want Skoda too to become another Maruti or Hyundai?

I think they have priced the Kushak well. Just add the side and curtain airbags to the ATs and it would sell in decent numbers. Decent enough to keep the company in the green.

The last thing Skoda needs to do is launch a "Skoda Amaze" and watch their brand value go down the drain.

[nitkel]

Originally Posted by civic-sense

The last thing Skoda needs to do is launch a "Skoda Amaze" and watch their brand value go down the drain.

To be honest, they have in fact done a "Skoda Amaze" and priced it like a "Skoda City"!

[whencut86]

Originally Posted by 07CR

I would still pick a Hyundai over a Skoda eyes closed if the question is about reliability. It's not like Skoda is all good and merry apart from DSG issues.

I am no fan of either Skoda or Hyundai but folks in our forum also know that Hyundai/Kia cars do have serious concerns with breaking, DCT, vague power steering issues and few more. There is even a separate thread with many who have concurred with one of those issues. There are similar ones with owners outside this forum as well.

Hyundai/Kia has done nothing to address these major issues/concerns and are happy to sell cars the same way as before which clearly points to a lack of concern for customer safety. So Hyundai/Kia is no saint either and also have its share of issues. So it is not fair to point fingers at Skoda/VW and claim Hyundai is better at reliability. Both are here in our market for profit and they are just two sides of the same coin.

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/india...-response.html (Hyundai India - The occasional serious quality lapse and apathetic manufacturer response!)

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techn...ll-owners.html (Hyundai Creta: Serious brake failure issue (must-read for all owners))

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/india...ia-seltos.html (Brake failure issues in the Kia Seltos)

[neoonwheels]

May be more than the pricing and features at that pricing, what hurts more personally for me is lack of 6 airbags in the 1.5 AT. When you have a 95% localized product (Whatever that means on safety!!!), why drop something for which your brand is known for. I dont expect VW-Skoda to match Hyundai/Kia on features, what I expect from them is to avoid skipping on safety aspect

I am sure, Skoda would think through this and would introduce 6 airbags in the 1.5 DSG. May be it is why they have pushed the delivery dates from early Aug to late Aug now. They might as well bring another L&K/MonteCarlo edition sooner to address this.

[AamodB]

Originally Posted by devilwearsprada

Well City has the thinnest sheet metal in class, you would actually be better picking the Ciaz.

That's quite a baseless claim (unless you yourself are of course involved with the testing for safety and quality of cars in India and can provide evidence for the same).

For context, I own a 2021 City myself and I completely agree that the sheet metal might as well be thin and the India spec City might fare worse than the ASEAN one with 5 stars. As others have also mentioned a lay-person's (myself included) understanding of the quality/ grade of sheet metal and its impact on overall safety isn't exactly what one can base their assumptions about any vehicle.

Safety is much more than just how the extremities fare in case of a collision and while Skoda has inexplicably skimped on the 'on-paper' safety features, from past evidence the parts in a VAG car (DQ200 is just ) are usually built better than those on their Korean rivals i.e. the Seltos fuel pump failure saga.
Link: https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techn...it-solved.html (Nightmare ownership experience with Kia Seltos GTX+! Fuel pump failure & breakdown. EDIT: Solved)

Point being, there's no need to take digs on what drives people's decisions on their choice of car since there's many more factors than just sheet metal thickness.

[07CR]

Originally Posted by Rigid Rotor

Here is an interesting read from a 2017 article in Autocar regarding the MQB A0 IN platform and the project as a whole:

https://www.autocarindia.com/car-new...s3WllAvS1o7SOE

Quoting an interesting bit in the article on the MQB being modified for India:

"It is also likely that the high-tensile steel body panels which are hot stamped will be replaced with cold-stamped lower-grade steel, which according to a source “will still exceed the standards in the Indian market.”

So, there are some markets which are interesting and are good for cars produced in India...[/i]"

Will the Skoda fans still not accept that there is definitely a decline in terms of quality, when these quotes are from the Skoda team?

[adimicra]

Originally Posted by 07CR

Will the Skoda fans still not accept that there is definitely a decline in terms of quality, when these quotes are from the Skoda team?

+1.
And what exactly is meant by "exceed the standards in the Indian market"?
Indian market does not have any standards at all. Most of the best selling cars in Indian market are tin cans with 0 star rating in crash tests. This is actually a give away about poorer build quality and standards being followed for the Kushaq/Taigun compared to their global counterparts.

[84.monsoon]

Having seen the pricing of the Kushaq, the likelihood that it would garner volumes of anywhere over 2000 units a month is really low. The VW Group really needs a volume seller to reach the goals of 5% market share at least by 2025 (roughly 240,000 cars a year or 20,000 cars a month). The group have already declared that they will not be competing at the lowest end of the market in compact hatchbacks, compact sedans and other sub-4m vehicles. So, the main vehicles that will bring them the volume will be Taigun/Kushaq - the two mid-sized SUVs and the upcoming midsized sedans based on the same platform. So other than the Taigun, they have few other cards left in their hand to play to reach anywhere near these kind of volumes.

So, I do expect that there is a strong possibility of the Taigun being priced aggressively and below the Kushaq, including an inaugural launch price for base variant starting below 10 lakhs. The Kushaq Active variant is much better equipped than the base variants of Creta/Seltos, A Taigun Trendline variant could be launched, stripping off the following things from the Kushaq Active and it will still be completely comparable to the Creta base E model, which is priced at 9.99 lakhs (and it will be more powerful and torquey and fun to drive compared to the Creta as well).

• 6.5 inch touchscreen Infotainment with 6 speakers (Substituted by a simple 2 DIN system)
• ESC, Multi-collision braking, Electronic Differential Lock System, XDS & XDS+
• Anti-slip Regulation & Motor Slip regulation
• Brake Disc Wiping
• Roll-over protection
• Rough road package
• Roof rails
• Substitute the new 2 spoke steering wheel which has chrome scrollers etc., with the traditional VW steering wheel from the older parts bin
• Height adjustable head restraints at rear
• ISOFIX

Such a move could ensure that the base variant is also profitable, which is important to sustain good supply and take long term market share. The group absolutely needs to have a volume play in India, and this is probably their only chance to position themselves to reach the kind of volumes that they are aspiring for. If both these SUVs end up overpriced and bringing in low volumes, the company will be stuck in the same rut that they have been in the last 10 years - with great products, but not enough volumes to justify long-term growth and survival.

India may well turn out to be one of the last bastions of internal combustion engines and offers an interesting diversification opportunity for the global auto majors like VW, as the developed world quickly electrifies and new competitors like Tesla emerge. Given the growing population and aspirations in India from now till around 2035 and the low possibility of rapid adoption of electric cars due to constrained infrastructure, the group could keep selling good volumes of IC cars here for the next 15 years. This will help diversify their revenue base, instead of solely relying on electric cars, which will be a much more competitive arena, where differentiation will be harder and risks higher.

[autohead115]

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[nitkel]

Funny that we would all be discussing bookings, test drives and delivery dates here, and Skoda would have had a waiting period of at least 4 months by now, IF they had made some sensible decisions before launch! Only hope that they learn something from it!

[rahulcmoulee]

Originally Posted by autohead115

Skoda :

Safety 10

How can we assume that safety is a 10 before the vehicle has been crash tested. As this platform is modified for India, how can we be sure that it is going to be built to the same standards as their international platforms. And removing side and curtain airbags from some variants does nothing to improve confidence in the brand.

We all were of the thinking that the Koreans were safe until they were crash tested too. So it is better to reserve judgement on safety until there is evidence that the car is indeed safe.

[vb-saan]

When it comes to creature-comforts and fancy features, the Korean twins always had an upper-hand. A top-end Creta definitely would have a truck-load of additional features when compared to say a BMW X1 or a VW Tiguan. That limited set of buyers (in India) who opt for European brands will have a minimum expectation on safety, quality, driver experience etc.; the latest Octavia is an example for these virtues. Even the Karoq that had no negatives to speak of, except for being slightly over-priced, stayed true to the brand’s USP. This is where Kushaq faltered big-time – they skimped on the key strengths in the name of ‘Indianisation’. More than the premium pricing or slight cost-cutting efforts here and there, the cut-down on airbags in AT variants will be the key deterrent point that may bite back Skoda big time.