[swarnava.ch]

In continuation of my previous Post, had the test drive today and here are the observations:
1. The car is WIDE, wider than hexa perhaps but need to see. Coupled with the mirrors, they were a bit weirdly positioned.
2. The city mode felt a bit lethargic, loved the sport mode. Perhaps the 400 NM on Hexa has spoilt me. Didn’t even both with Eco mode.
3. I had some trouble to find a good position on the driver seat and my left side leg kept fouling with the dash lower trim. Need to try again another time.
4. Ride quality is not HEXA but not bad either.
5. The Auto hold was interesting feature, every time you hit the break and bring the car to a stop, the car applies brakes and doesn’t move if you lift off the brake pedals till you press accelerator again. However downside of this is that it made the stop and go journey jerky. Braking action itself is good.
6. Gearbox was nice, dropped 2 gears if required and was able to upshift when required.
7. The middle row hump kept bothering and last row was a bit bumpy.
8. Seats were awesome, well cushioned, driver seat for instance holds you in place with good lumbar support.
9. Engine vibrations can be felt on the steering wheel at neutral.
10. Have you tried to pull up the bonnet ? Just try and you will realize its heavy.
11. Compared to Hexa I was easily able to walk and sit in the car than climbing inside.
12. When I offered to exchange my Hexa, the number quoted here is 70% of what Toyota guys offered. It was laughable, I don’t think they seriously intend to deal here. What is it with Tata and valuation of their vehicle ?

[vigneshkumar31]

Originally Posted by Venkad

Thanks for the reviews and feedback on the new Safari. I own a XUV 500 and very happy about the vehicle! I am looking to go for an exchange. I was confused between Creta, Safari, and yet to be born XUV 500. After going through this forum and test driving it, I am pretty convinced!

I have booked the Safari XZ+ Adventure today! The dealer has promised to deliver in four weeks. Very excited and hope that I have made the right decision!

Congratulations and wish you a happy buying and ownership experience.

Please do write here about your decision making process if you find the time. I would love to get your perspective and understand why an existing XUV owner would choose the Safari over the upcoming XUV. It's an interesting combination to cross deck from the M&M's market disruptor 5OO to the Tata's newest flagship.

[Raghunath Singh]

Test drove the Safari XZ+ today, manual. Having driven the first gen Dzire for 10+ years, was mighty impressed (expected). Having seen most of the cars in below 30L segment over the years, here are some of my quick observations:

1. Fit and finish is really good
2. Rear disc brakes are a big plus, braking was good (3 people onboard minus luggage)
3. VERY spacious, ample headroom even when driving position set high, I'm 6 ft tall
4. EPS was impressive, something that one needs to get used to
5. NVH levels were good, engine does roar a bit on high revs (expected and totally acceptable levels)
6. No major vibrations. Ride quality was good.
7. Loved the Blue colour (personal choice), the interiors in white looks awesome however not ideal in the real world. I liked the tan colour interiors in the Harrier, easy for maintenance and looks good in my opinion.
8. Ample space in middle row, my preference will be the bench seat. Offers more comfort and options.
9. Last row is not gimmick, good amount of space. Adults can sit for short runs and kids during long drives.
10. Air con vents in the last row with control is useful, however USB ports could have been placed vertically to avoid any drinks being spilled inside them.
11. Sound system by JBL is awesome
12. Panoramic sunroof is splendid
13. Overall quality of interiors is very good
14. Decent colour options, Blue being my favourite

Few misses in my opinion:
1. Infotainment could have been better felt laggy. While, the panel is wide, it's too narrow.
2. No inbuilt GPS/ maps function like the ones in XUV 500.
3. No rear sunshade curtains! Even a Seltos HTK+ model has it.
4. No ventilated front seats
5. Rear parking camera lacks clarity, they could have provided a better camera
6. Excessive usage of Chrome on the outside, looks like a rapper with heavy chains!
7. Steering wheel is uninspiring, looks very bland. They could have used a small portion of chrome from outside on the steering wheel I guess.
8. Horns are not great
9. No boot space with all seats up
10. Halogen headlight for high-beam instead of LED
11. Armrest position is not great, should have been a little longer or placed a bit front
12. No wireless charging

Inspite of all the above "can do better" items, I'm seriously considering buying this beauty. Had almost booked the Kia Seltos.

One question: Can the halogen headlight on the Xenon HID projector headlamps be replaced with LEDs? Would it cause any issues with the traffic police? I'm a novice when it comes to lighting as I have been running on my 100/90s on my Swift Dzire.

[TORQUE_AANJANEY]

I own a 2018 Hexa XTA with captain seats and today just out of curiosity visited the showroom to take a look at the Safari. The family who are not even remotely close to car enthusiasts also took a look at the adventure edition on display.

Despite whatever the outside body shell may look like, inside shoulder room is definately lesser than that of the Hexa. Everyone including my mom could figure that out without being prompted. As pointed before on this forum, the arm rests on those captain seats are too slim to allow the elbow to not slip. Also while the last row might have the same amount of legroom as Hexa, the fact that the seat base is flat to allow a flat luggage load space, once the last row is folded, it didn't offer the same comfort and under thigh support as the slightly angled seat base in the Hexa does. The captain seats are also narrower than the Hexa 2nd row but there is no such issues on the front seats.

As expected of a monocoque, you do sit inside the car than on it like in a body on frame like Hexa. I'm shorter than most and I still keep my Hexa seat at the lowest height setting and find no issues in looking ahead and judging the front. On the Safari increasing the height of the seat is needed to get better visibility of the road (not so much to look to at the bonnet - which for me is not that important) and raising seat height does fiddle your left knee with the dashboard. In automatic it's manageable but on manual I don't think it would be. I would anyhow not look for a manual so it's a passable flaw.

The top of the dashboard material is more premium than Hexa but the door pads, seats, etc, seem a grade lower than Hexa. The boot also seemed to take a lot more effort to shut properly - takes back to 90s experience - whereas I never had to slam the boot on my Hexa to shut it. Can see a lot of issues when visiting malls and offices where security will pop open the boot but will not be able to close it properly. Also can't find why they removed the handle on the inside of the boot as found on Harrier, to grab and close on the Safari ?

I hope the handling will be better than Hexa and hopefully it comes close to ride comfort. From any SUV measuring over 4.6 meters my expectations would never be outright performance. But a good dose of torque low end is what will be enjoyable in any family SUV.

Will update further upon taking the test drive but until then, family isn't convinced on the higher priced Safari over the Hexa. That could be just aversion to a change but it can only be addressed more logically after a test drive.

[venkyhere]

Originally Posted by Raghunath Singh

Few misses in my opinion:

10. Halogen headlight for high-beam instead of LED

One question: Can the halogen headlight on the Xenon HID projector headlamps be replaced with LEDs? Would it cause any issues with the traffic police? I'm a novice when it comes to lighting as I have been running on my 100/90s on my Swift Dzire.

why ? why do you think halogens for high beam are inferior to LEDs ? curious to know which all-LED highbeam car(s) that you have driven in the night led you to this conclusion.

[NoLurkerForLong]

Originally Posted by Raghunath Singh

...

10. Air con vents in the last row with control is useful, however USB ports could have been placed vertically to avoid any drinks being spilled inside them.

...

That was a great observation. Tata, if you are listening, a flap cover can help here. Cables from vertical ports might affect the leg room.

[Raghunath Singh]

Originally Posted by venkyhere

why ? why do you think halogens for high beam are inferior to LEDs ? curious to know which all-LED highbeam car(s) that you have driven in the night led you to this conclusion.

@Venkyhere- I think you didn't read my comment well. It is not an observation, just a question. I did mention my knowledge on lighting was limited and hence seeking some answers. Hope this clarifies.

[venkyhere]

Originally Posted by Raghunath Singh

@Venkyhere- I think you didn't read my comment well. It is not an observation, just a question. I did mention my knowledge on lighting was limited and hence seeking some answers. Hope this clarifies.

I did, and that is why I asked the Q. Please dont misunderstand me, I am only asking for the benefit of others. There is a lot of misconception amongst the public, that for all automotive lighting , LED is the ultimate best. Holds true for rear lights and interior lights.

However, for headlamps, unless it is a proper multi-source LED lighting setup ("matrix lighting" invented by Audi, mercedes and bmw and many other luxury/performance manufacturers have their own versions of this thing, nowadays even honda city top end comes with something similar) or a well known LED lighting brand (whose products are costly) like morimoto/GTR lighting etc , 99% of LED lighting solutions are sub-par, compared to their real purpose which was erstwhile well served by regular halogens. It's the craze with anything "LED" that is getting exploited dearly, by so many chinese based "LED headlamps" companies.

Most of these mass market LED headlamps are assembled in such a way as to resemble a halogen lamp and mounted within a reflector or behind a projector - they hardly do a good job of lighting up the road ahead, in the right manner that the driver can actually benefit from. They fool the customers with very bright near field of vision (may people think that the bluer the colour is, the better is the lighting, which again is a faux pas) without much "reach" or "penetration" into the distance. The rate of degradation from brightness to darkness w.r.t distance, is very very fast in case of LEDs and much lesser in case of simple regular halogens. To give you a crude example, 100 units at 4 feet distance and 10 units at 40 feet distance is going to "seem" better than 75 units at 4 feet distance and 25 units at 40 feet distance. It's far more essential to see that extra 10 metres ahead, rather than seeing the nearby bush or nearby traffic sign, at twice the brightness.

The reason why all top end manufacturers "invented" their complicated LED lighting systems, is exactly this. Their proprietory technology(ies) are trying to solve this "fast degradation with distance" using multiple source points for light from their LED assemblies.

[Venkad]

Firstly, we wanted a good replacement for the existing XUV. It was a great companion and we did lots and lots of driving without major hassles in the last five years of ownership. Since it had clocked 2.25 lacs, it was time to say goodbye considering resale price will drop further.

Secondly, we wanted to go for home-based manufacturers and at the same time not just driven by patriotic emotions but also hunt for a good car for our needs.

Therefore we considered Innova Crysta, MG Hector, Tata Harrier/Safari, Hyundai Creta and Seltos as possible options.

Innova Crysta V model - Very good comfort/power/ride quality & handling, VFM, Good resale value, Felt safe, but fewer features and carefree attitude from sales put us down

MG Hector Smart - SUV feel, Lots of space and features, questions on after-sales support - RSA, service, etc, power, ride quality & handling was not as expected, not sure on resale value, we didn't feel safe and something felt not right.

Creta/Seltos - Good ride quality and handling, Very good interior and exterior, Packed with features we wanted and more, But lacked the driving punch we needed for an SUV, and had a Longer wait period

Lastly, we were also considering waiting for few months for the XUV 2021/Hyundai Alcazar release. But we were not sure what upgrades/price points these cars will have and generally first two years is not niggle free.

Therefore we narrowed down on Harrier/Safari which is tried and tested for the last two years on Indian roads, overall good feedback in social media and from friends,

So we decided to go ahead and book Safari because it had

- SUV feel Space, Very good power, Rideability & handling inside the city, and rough roads were good, Interior was neat, Felt safe, Had Features that we needed, plus it is Made in Bharat.

Somehow overall we felt Tata read my mind and gave things that a common Indian driver like me would need to drive in the country.

One question I still have - We will drive 50-50 on the city and highway, both me and my wife. Should we opt for manual or auto transmission? Normally speaking, Do Auto transmission also has something similar to the clutch burn issue in Manual variants, considering we follow the driving good habits.

[padmrajravi]

Originally Posted by Venkad

One question I still have - We will drive 50-50 on the city and highway, both me and my wife. Should we opt for manual or auto transmission? Normally speaking, Do Auto transmission also has something similar to the clutch burn issue in Manual variants, considering we follow the driving good habits.

This is 2021. It does not matter who drives or in what terrain you drive. If you can afford a proper automatic (Not AMT), that should be the default choice. You seem to be concerned about resale value too. In the future, an automatic will definitely have better resale value. This opinion is not valid for manual romantics though.

Originally Posted by VKumar

Not only the long wheelbase, just look how the front wheels are struggling for the grip even in initial parts.

Remember the Safari which failed to clear an obstacle in an earlier post? I felt the driver's clutch control was also a factor there and the SUV was stalling. A better driver with clutch control would have cleared it if there was no problem with the break-over angle. Or substitute the better driver with an ordinary driver like me and an autobox with ESP aids.

[Venkad]

Tata safari has AMT and not proper AT, per my understanding.
Is AMT any better than using MT?

[Nanolover]

Originally Posted by Venkad

Tata safari has AMT and not proper AT, per my understanding.
Is AMT any better than using MT?

Tata Safari has a proper 6 speed torque convertor auto sourced from Hyundai. Only the nexon has AMT.

[imp!]

We recently test drove the Safari extensively and came away with a mixed bag of thoughts. While it is impressive, spacious and fairly well equipped I am not sure this is the car for us. The slack in the steering wheel is quite disconcerting at speeds. The gearbox absolutely refuses to downshift. If you are a sedate driver, then the Sports mode in automatic will be more than sufficient for your needs. The city/eco modes or whatever else they are called are absolutely anemic and best left untouched. One can always wish for better seat material and stitching, but I could ignore that. I wish it had RWD, the drive quality would have been much nicer, as things stand the FWD makes for a sub par drive experience. Had Tata launched it with a full 4WD auto and a better steering wheel, it would have been the car to beat for this year. I really wanted to like it. It ticked a lot of boxes, not the least of which is that it is great value in todays new car market. Sadly, it is close, but no cigar. I don't think we can live with the compromises and the search for a new car continues.


I just don't understand why Tata keep coming so close, and yet fall so short. This one definitely doesn't deserve the moniker of Safari.

[nainan]

Originally Posted by Venkad

One question I still have - We will drive 50-50 on the city and highway, both me and my wife. Should we opt for manual or auto transmission? Normally speaking, Do Auto transmission also has something similar to the clutch burn issue in Manual variants, considering we follow the driving good habits.

I suggest you go for the auto for the following reasons:-
- The clutch on the manual is long travel which will invariably cause fatigue in city driving
- The knee fouling issue with the console. Yes there are ways to get around it but then its not been a problem on the auto
- The auto gearbox is nicely integrated into the drivetrain and feels much more refined. The manual though adequate is not as precise on the gates which as I said is adequate but not great.

Tata safari has AMT and not proper AT, per my understanding.
Is AMT any better than using MT?

The Safari gearbox is a proper torque converter AT and not an AMT. I believe the exact model is :- A6F36/A6LF2

[CarGuy_DM]

Originally Posted by Venkad

One question I still have - We will drive 50-50 on the city and highway, both me and my wife. Should we opt for manual or auto transmission? Normally speaking, Do Auto transmission also has something similar to the clutch burn issue in Manual variants, considering we follow the driving good habits.

I was in the same boat. I booked XZ+ Manual just 3 days back. MT purely to save some money as my budget was a bit stretched. (Foolish me, the difference between MT & AT isn’t that great)

My dad was adamant that considering the future, AT is the best option. I took an extensive TD of the AT yesterday. And without a shade of doubt, changed my booking to AT.

AT is already the trend of the times. And in a few years MT would be marginalised even more.

Maybe after a few years when you wanna sell your car, the resale value may be held back because you would be trying to sell an MT in a predominantly AT world.

AT is the choice of transmission. Particularly for this car.