[Reinhard]

Originally Posted by padmrajravi

Creta and Seltos big hits, which are essentially the same cars.

That's not an accurate example IMO. Only their platform is shared. The cars are not same nor is it just badge engineering/re-badging.

That would be like calling Nexon and Vista "same cars" because of their platform being X1 or calling new WagonR and Baleno as same cars. Agreed - the similarities in Seltos & Creta are far higher than in WagonR and Baleno. But then - there are sufficient differences (and completely separate assembly lines also) to differentiate them in a lot of ways than just badge.

[padmrajravi]

Originally Posted by Reinhard

That would be like calling Nexon and Vista "same cars" because of their platform being X1 or calling new WagonR and Baleno as same cars.But then - there are sufficient differences (and completely separate assembly lines also) to differentiate them in a lot of ways than just badge.

Disagree with that analogy of Nexon and Vista. They belong to entirely different body styles. That has very little to do with Hector twins and Seltos twins.

To me, the difference between Seltos and Creta is not a lot higher than Hector and Captiva. Both are made in different assembly lines by different companies. Agreed that similarity in looks is more in case of Hector twins, but at least there is a difference in power train- Hector uses a DCT while Captiva uses a CVT. In the case of Creta twins, even that is exactly the same - same engine , same transmission, same platform , just different skins .

[Timothy]

Originally Posted by Reinhard

I personally don't see the need to boycott the MG Hector.

Sorry for commenting off topic. But in a world of open market with a broader outlook, countries like India have benefited a LOT over last 2-3 decades. Open market has given us exposure to some great technology while also protecting local businesses in one way or the other to some extent. And I say this in a very bipartisan way. Policy making (or lack thereof) overall in our history has somehow managed to protect our economy also while many others sank suddenly.

I use a phone which is MADE IN INDIA but by a brand of Chinese origin - Xiomi. And I use quite a few similar products of Chinese origin products like dash-cam in car etc. I don't object to people who mention "boycott" etc. Everyone is entitled an opinion and choice. All are correct in perspective.

My views are -

1. If there is a local alternative of equal or better caliber, no problem in picking the alternative while shunning away a brand of hostile native origins.
2. But boycotting just for the sake of it in a global economy is a bit weird. Take the example of MG Hector on this forum. Boycotting the Hector means less money going to China agreed. But it also means thousands of direct & indirect jobs lost in India & even more people (family members) facing uncertainty. Surely all those can't find a job in other car factories in current slowdowns.
3. While foreign, the brands still create jobs here in India for our own countrymen. Boycotting foreign (Chinese and others are same for me to be honest) brands - simply takes away jobs of our own people in the short and medium term.
4. Boycotting something while singling out the Chinese will just give a fake sense of national pride. Hardly anything is made anywhere else. We can say "Made In India" on things. Half of them are really "Assembled in India" with Chinese made components anyway.
5. Simple example - we make a lot of medicines in India. Tremendous amount of the raw material for it actually is imported from China! Boycotting Chinese goods will be the simplest way for population control (reduction rather) in India.

Over the years, I have started thinking its better to keep geo-politics and economics loosely coupled. Geo-politics are about maps, borders, fights. Economies are about simple tax-paying people like us on either side of the border being able to feed their little children 2 meals a day.

(P.S. - In case of cars - I prefer Tata & Mahindra since decades, so that's that. )

Since it is impossible to avoid the use of Chinese components in almost any electronic gadget these days, make it a point to avoid Chinese brands, for brands maximise profits for Chinese companies, while mere usage of Chinese components in non-Chinese brands shifts most of the value addition to brand owners in the US, South Korea, Taiwan, Singapore and Europe.

we are being repeated told that a China boycott will hurt millions of Indian consumers, for Chinese products, whether it is mobile phones or drug intermediates, are far cheaper than those from anywhere else in the world. Also, these sales are creating millions of jobs in logistics, trade, kirana shops, etc. ultimately there are no irreplaceable imports or products in the world. So, if we boycott Chinese products, other countries’ products will be available. An effective boycott will raise domestic prices in the short run, but the resultant higher prices in India will prompt more local production and higher imports from elsewhere. So, most of the jobs and economic activities that are impacted by the boycott will return in some form or the other once we create local supply chains.

For consumers who have already bought Chinese goods or had hoped to buy one, here is a simple thought: don’t feel guilty for what you did in the past, or even if you have no option but to buy Chinese now. But do follow a hierarchy of boycotts that are affordable and acceptable to you.

[manjubp]

Originally Posted by Reinhard

I personally don't see the need to boycott the MG Hector.

My views are -

1. If there is a local alternative of equal or better caliber, no problem in picking the alternative while shunning away a brand of hostile native origins.
2. But boycotting just for the sake of it in a global economy is a bit weird. Take the example of MG Hector on this forum. Boycotting the Hector means less money going to China agreed. But it also means thousands of direct & indirect jobs lost in India & even more people (family members) facing uncertainty. Surely all those can't find a job in other car factories in current slowdowns.
3. While foreign, the brands still create jobs here in India for our own countrymen. Boycotting foreign (Chinese and others are same for me to be honest) brands - simply takes away jobs of our own people in the short and medium term.
   

(P.S. - In case of cars - I prefer Tata & Mahindra since decades, so that's that. )

I have a different opinion on the thousands of direct & indirect jobs lost in India.

The suggestion is not to drop buying a car. Still one can buy non-chinese car, may be ford, vw, Maruti, Honda, toyota, tata, mahindra or similar. Every car brought and manufactured in India will create Jobs in India and it is not only chinese cars.

Used import lot of goods from china. Going forward, I will avoid china as much as possible. Even if it means to pay more.

[Kosfactor]

Originally Posted by manjubp

I have a different opinion on the thousands of direct & indirect jobs lost in India.

The suggestion is not to drop buying a car. Still one can buy non-chinese car, may be ford, vw, Maruti, Honda, toyota, tata, mahindra or similar. Every car brought and manufactured in India will create Jobs in India and it is not only chinese cars.

Used import lot of goods from china. Going forward, I will avoid china as much as possible. Even if it means to pay more.

We cannot determine who is more Chinese from just the badge alone, lets assume that Tata may use say 90% Indian components for the old Sumo but only 70% for a Hexa. VW Skoda may use more chinese components because Chinese companies manufacture more VW Skoda cars than anywhere else, does that make VW Skoda more Chinese or German? Volvo cars is Chinese, Volvo trucks is 15% Chinese owned, Mercedes Benz`s parent Daimler is 15% Chinese owned - not a single one of these manufacturers can avoid china supplied products.

In the current scenario, it is next to impossible to avoid China manufactured products, including things that we assume to be built in India, like a Bajaj Fan - yep made in China, ~ 20% of Bajaj electrical stuff is made in China. 21% of all automotive parts import was from China in 2018- now its 27% and only going to increase since almost every new model now comes with a touch screen and what not. Injectors, steering components, alloy wheels , control modules, the list is endless. Maruti & Bajaj has already said in the open that any boycott of chinese parts will backfire.

Electric cars has to rely even more on China, the batteries, they all can be traced back to some supplier in China regardless of the sticker outside. So our government`s enthusiasm in going electric is only going to help China even more.

[Timothy]

Originally Posted by Kosfactor

We cannot determine who is more Chinese from just the badge alone, lets assume that Tata may use say 90% Indian components for the old Sumo but only 70% for a Hexa. VW Skoda may use more chinese components because Chinese companies manufacture more VW Skoda cars than anywhere else, does that make VW Skoda more Chinese or German? Volvo cars is Chinese, Volvo trucks is 15% Chinese owned, Mercedes Benz`s parent Daimler is 15% Chinese owned - not a single one of these manufacturers can avoid china supplied products.

In the current scenario, it is next to impossible to avoid China manufactured products, including things that we assume to be built in India, like a Bajaj Fan - yep made in China, ~ 20% of Bajaj electrical stuff is made in China. 21% of all automotive parts import was from China in 2018- now its 27% and only going to increase since almost every new model now comes with a touch screen and what not. Injectors, steering components, alloy wheels , control modules, the list is endless. Maruti & Bajaj has already said in the open that any boycott of chinese parts will backfire.

Electric cars has to rely even more on China, the batteries, they all can be traced back to some supplier in China regardless of the sticker outside. So our government`s enthusiasm in going electric is only going to help China even more.

Since it is not possible to avoid the use of Chinese components in many automotive product these days, make it a point to avoid Chinese brands, for brands maximise profits for Chinese companies, while mere usage of Chinese components in non-Chinese brands shifts most of the value addition to brand owners in South Korea, India, Japan and Europe.

China under Xi Jinping, the most autocratic & hardline Nationalist in recent times, is a very different China. India has allowed, like most countries, to become heavily dependent on cheap Chinese manufacturing that we, like so many other countries cannot move away from them. But a start has to be made and if we do it now perhaps in the next 5 years we will stop our dependence on a country that persecutes and oppresses its own people and grossly misuses its new found power & wealth.

[msd7]

Let us see how MG India reacts to this. My personal opinion is that we can never end the influence of China. I was having a discussion with my father ( who is in the pharma industry), that can we make drug intermediates which India imports from China in India. His reply was that neither India has the infrastructure nor such a disciplined workforce. India imports nearly 70 percent of drug intermediates from China.

What I believe is that by doing such rhetorical acts we get a sense of false national pride and feel happy, but if we go down to deep economics and trade relations we can realise that China is deeply rooted in India. The government encourages this publicly but if we look at facts a chinese company recently got a tender for the Delhi Meerut rapid transit corridor.

Going by the same logic, can we stop eating medicines, just because their raw materials are from China.

Whatever China is doing at the border is completely wrong, but if China were to stop trade relations a lot of our industries will have to shut down and this is something which we cannot afford in the current times.

Our MG Hector is running flawlessly, but I now believe the resale value will tank down. Hope that the ASS remains good and MG does not shut shop.

[Shreyans_Jain]

Originally Posted by msd7

Attachment 2018138

Let us see how MG India reacts to this. My personal opinion is that we can never end the influence of China. I was having a discussion with my father ( who is in the pharma industry), that can we make drug intermediates which India imports from China in India. His reply was that neither India has the infrastructure nor such a disciplined workforce. India imports nearly 70 percent of drug intermediates from China.

The discussion about bulk drugs is beyond the scope of this thread. As far as MG goes, their goose is now well and truly cooked, at least in the short to medium term. I see this as free market. They buyer is free to choose as per his wishes. If you don’t take care of customer or market sentiments, market will ditch you. What this person has written in the letter is factually correct and he is well within his rights to cancel his booking as he feels his sentiment has been hurt.

MG sales will definitely be hit. Plans of others like Haval who have invested or are looking to invest will also be up in smokes. The rumoured Tata Motors - Cherry tie up will also see serious headwinds. It is just bad optics.

[Storm2.0]

Originally Posted by msd7

Let us see how MG India reacts to this..

Simple. MG will file a case against him just like how they dragged another customer to court when he got his defective Hector pulled by donkeys just to get company's attention.

[Durango Dude]

Personally, neither would I buy a Hector, nor would I take it even if I was gifted one. I think "Winnie the Pooh" lookalike needs to be taught a lesson. If it goes on as business as usual all Indians would become doormats for Chinese to walk all over us. Boycott all Chinese products and software.

[Kosfactor]

Originally Posted by Timothy

But a start has to be made and if we do it now perhaps in the next 5 years we will stop our dependence on a country that persecutes and oppresses its own people and grossly misuses its new found power & wealth.

It is not easy to find out which car is more chinese or Indian, a Chinese brand does not necessarily mean it has more made in China components. MG hector is supposed to be at least 75% localised.

Iet me give you another example , a Chevrolet Silverado is 46% US/Canadian parts, how about a Toyota Tundra ? 65% ! A Renault Duster is more made in India than a Tata Harrier with its land rover bits.

But the boycott Chinese hot blood fantasy lasts only till Its your turn to make a choice - would you like Syndicate wipers or Bosch? Bosch ? Made in China. Would you like Philips headlight bulb or Minda? Philips? Made in China.

Disclaimer : I do not like Hector or MG, but I just feel sad that our citizens are swayed by opinions from primetime comedy shows.

[Hayek]

We are drifting off topic - but should recognise that the bulk of the value of any product goes to the shareholders and those who designed it - not to those who assemble it. Hence whether the MG Hector has 100% Indian components or not is irrelevant, it is a Chinese product. Made by a State owned Chinese company. And the Communist Party of China run government and the People’s Liberation Army directly benefit when one buys it. The same applies for lots of other brands - Volvo, Pirelli, Oppo, Vivo, One Plus, Xiaomi, Haier, Lenovo (including the ThinkPad) etc.

Personally, I would boycott all these brands. Pity - because the MG Hector is a good car. We can’t live without Chinese components on most things. But we can prevent them from moving out of the Middle Income trap into a brand and design owner - at least on our dime.

[Timothy]

All of us live in a globalised world and most of us understand the concept of Global supply chains. A Tata Motors vehicle may have 50% Chinese parts & a Chinese branded car may have 50% Indian components, but it is the creation & value addition to a Chinese brand that should be avoided at all costs & like Hayek's, post which is so spot on, especially about avoiding them to get out of the Middle income trap....

As a matter of principle our family has rarely ever used a Chinese branded product for the last several years and will pay a higher price to procure a substitute. I am an avid golfer and know all the clubs from the well known American brands are made in China but would I ever buy a Chinese branded golf club which is available at a fraction of price ? Same is the case with Hector & Chinese branded Mobile phones.

[Sebring]

If situation becomes graver wont angry people be looking at soft targets to damage? There was this video of people breaking a China made TV. My friend had picked up a MG Hector over the Seltos/Harrier. So (yesterday), over a conversation, he was joking that 'maybe a homegrown SUV made sense'. I'm sure MG owners are a worried lot.

[vishy76]

Originally Posted by Sebring

If situation becomes graver wont angry people be looking at soft targets to damage? There was this video of people breaking a China made TV. My friend had picked up a MG Hector over the Seltos/Harrier. So (yesterday), over a conversation, he was joking that 'maybe a homegrown SUV made sense'. I'm sure MG owners are a worried lot.

This has already happened. A MG Hector has been vandalised in Delhi already after it was brought home from the showroom

Chinese or not, no one has the right to damage someone else's property like this. The owner has bought the asset using his own money, not the taxpayer's.