[spindoc]

Originally Posted by silvercloud

Based on the niggles mentioned in the review and considering the price point, I've asked him to wait and test drive the Hector, Jeep Compass, XUV500 and Innova before taking the plunge. Any other car that can take the Harrier head on at this price range?

It is always a good idea to look at other vehicles in the same segment / price range.

I would add the Hexa to the list.

Interestingly, my friend has gone ahead and booked the Harrier after a test drive, even though he has been closely following the Harrier thread here. He says he doesn't find anything seriously concerning, except for the blind spots in the ORVM and the light steering at high speeds. He has taken a leap of faith.

I discussed with a senior person at Tata Motors a few weeks ago and heard they are serious about getting this right and that things will be fixed both in the assembly line and for existing owners. I also heard the electronics issue (screen switching off) has been resolved.

In any case, we will know in the coming months if they are really able to win over the market.

[metal]

Originally Posted by mchandra13

A fantastic review. .....

....So we cannot vouch for the quality of the product unless its released in India and tested here. As-is, people in the market do have perception about Chinese products being cheap and lack quality. And people willing to spend 20L for an SUV are no exception to this perception.....

As per some reports, Hector is nothing but re-christened and upgraded Chevy Captiva. Can anyone confirm this?

About the Hector - In Indonesia, where I am currently located, the Hector-like-product is sold as Wuling Almaz. Please refer to the following link - https://mobil.wuling.id/en/almaz

The Almaz starts at about INR 16 lacs equivalent (ex-showroom) in Indonesia.
The gasoline engine option is similar to the one offered on Hector. You will also notice that, the body and interiors are largely same except for the front grill, headlamps and branding. The Almaz is good VFM (which seems to be Wuling's positioning here) compared to alternatives in Indonesia at the price point for those aspiring to get an SUV. However, to me Almaz didn't ring any bells, the road presence is muted and some what lost amongst the HRVs, CRVs, Toyotas plying the roads here.
Almaz Paint quality seems very OK in person. Whereas the Hector (in photos) in red with the chrome grill stands out.
I had seen a silver Harrier once and vis-a-vis the Almaz, the Harrier has a much more sophisticated and handsome presence.
Indonesians love Jap cars and not many are placing bets on Wuling yet, which is still new in Indonesia.
Just drawing comparison with a Hector sibling I had seen. No comments on mechanicals.

[Passiautonate]

Originally Posted by RajeevSharma

Thanks for the detailed review. I don't know what Tata was thinking when they send these inconsistent Harriers to Team-BHP. May be it shows their arrogance and confidence in the undercooked product and hasty launch not helping matters.

The poor handling is a deal breaker and nothing will top it. Tata has missed an opportunity and messed up badly. I had pre-booked Harrier but cancelled when Automatic was not launched. I am all too glad for it now specially after reading the review.

Well often happens in PSU's or companies with red tape-ism (can be read as excess fat). Sales, Marketing, Operations, R&D and PR all out of sync. Somebody sitting at the top pushes things but silo'ed departments make the mess. PR department did the job by delivering the car now somebody influential will pull the strings to get the niggles sorted. Wonder things are similar at Mahindra though bit better due to passionate management.

In short Harrier is still a wonderful product and quiet an improvement. Though you can't take "Jugaad" out of Indian manufacturing.

[McLaren Rulez]

Originally Posted by silvercloud

Based on the niggles mentioned in the review and considering the price point, I've asked him to wait and test drive the Hector, Jeep Compass, XUV500 and Innova before taking the plunge. Any other car that can take the Harrier head on at this price range?

Kia SP. Probably will be a game changer if the pricing indications are true.

[Cruzerman]

Originally Posted by madhukriss

On the same subject, did anyone in the reviewing team face this issue at all ? Also, a call out to all Harrier owners. Have any of you faced this specific issue of a left drift when driving at speeds over 80 kmph ? You definitely should try this only on an open road without traffic but it would be great for me to understand if this issue is a specific one restricted to my car or is a general design/product fault.

I haven't faced this reported left drift issue in my Harrier so far. Hopefully it stays that way! Also, happy to announce that no niggles have cropped up so far in one week's ownership of my Harrier XZ (I know it's a very short time for anything to happen).

The blind spot that XXL sized ORVMs give is potentially dangerous. Yesterday I lowered the driving seat to a new position and I feel the blind spot is now reduced to some extent. But I am sure I'll get used to it! A positive side of having these huge mirrors is the backward visibility. Man, you can see every vehicle behind you clearly and you don't have to adjust the mirrors to get an optimal view behind you (I always had a hard time with my Creta's mirrors regarding this especially while reversing). So, in a way it's nice to have those huge ORVMs as the view through IRVM is pathetic.

The reverse camera quality is really B-A-D! It's pixelated and laggy but very bright and colourful! Does the job, that's all.

The attention Harrier gets on the road is tremendous. Seeing rubberneckers, people following my car on bikes, pedestrians stopping midway and staring, morning/evening walkers coming up to my house gate to check out and take photos of the parked car, etc. have become a daily affair for me now!

[Annibaddh]

Drove the Harrier yesterday, albeit for a short distance. In addition to Team-Bhp's observations, here's a few more.

1. Quality of construction: Not only does the steering feel twitchy at highway speeds, it also isn't quite that good to hold. A considerable drop in touch vs my Vento. The same was the case with the gear lever. All the while I was driving, I was aware of the rather plasticy feel.

2. Is it me or was the 1st gear rather short?

3. Hexa's acoustics perhaps made the sound better? Harrier's felt a notch lower in quality.

[krishnakarthik1]

There are already 4 harriers in my gated community and one hexa, mine. Our local MLA's son got one and put the MLA sticker. Maybe Tata thought we built one heck of a product in Hexa but it never really did the numbers we expected, now lets build a 85% ish product with great looks and see.

And maybe they are correct. Maybe folks don't really mind the shortcomings because of its stunning looks. I wouldn't be really surprised even if this version 1.0 of harrier did huge numbers.

[Aditya_Bhp]

Among the Harrier and Hexa, I find Hexa to be more value for money as it basically offers nearly everything the Harrier has, and also offers a diesel automatic too and 7 seats. Inspite of this factor, I see more Harriers than Hexa now on roads. It surely looks good, especially in the white shade.

One reason Tata and Mahindra are prone to niggles in the initial phase, is because these cars are made 1st and only in India, so India becomes sort of a testing ground. Rest of the companies introduce cars elsewhere in the world and launch them in India after an year, sorting out issues in between.

Hope Tata sorts out all the issues soon and brings out a diesel automatic.

[nainan]

Originally Posted by Aditya_Bhp

Among the Harrier and Hexa, I find Hexa to be more value for money as it basically offers nearly everything the Harrier has, and also offers a diesel automatic too and 7 seats. Inspite of this factor, I see more Harriers than Hexa now on roads. It surely looks good, especially in the white shade.

I think a all niggles sorted Harrier with AT, BS6 and 4x4 as was reported before along with the Buzzard/Cassini(I still feel the successor to the Safari should be called a Safari) launching together in the festive season will be the perfect double whammy boost that brand Tata needs. There are a large number of fence sitters right now who want all the three above and the game is on as the Hector and the Kia are both racing towards a launch.

The way I see it the timing is crucial as closer to the BS6 deadline most rival will bring in their BS6 offerings too and the absence of a petrol engine also is going to hurt.

[Aditya_Bhp]

Originally Posted by nainan

the absence of a petrol engine also is going to hurt.

I don't think Tata will launch a petrol engined Harrier. There isn't a market for petrol SUVs. And even if they launch, it will not be a success as the fuel efficiency will be very bad. The BSVI Multijet Harrier is ready and I don't think prices will increase much.

[nainan]

Originally Posted by Aditya_Bhp

I don't think Tata will launch a petrol engined Harrier. There isn't a market for petrol SUVs. And even if they launch, it will not be a success as the fuel efficiency will be very bad. The BSVI Multijet Harrier is ready and I don't think prices will increase much.

I think there is a market growing for petrol SUVs and the Compass and Creta which are direct competitors to the Harrier have around 30% sales from petrol variants.



source

In a BS6 scenario where the price differential will increase between petrol and diesel engined vehicles and the fuel price differential will decrease the scenario might skew more towards petrol. I too am a fan of big toquey diesels but I fear they will suffer the fate of the 2 strokes.

[A.M.]

Excellent review of the car.
I could not help but notice the rear disc brake in Bhpian kalleo4's Harrier, even though Tata does not offer disc brakes in the rear in the Harrier as stated in the review.
An aftermarket addition?

[nainan]

I just saw that in the 7 seater thread there is a mods request to move to this thread. Does this mean 7 seater discussions will be continued here?

[SDP]

I attended the drive event at Jodhpur and here are some additional observations from my notes.

Exterior

I believe the exterior of the Harrier has already been covered beautifully (and exhaustively) by Aditya. So let me just add a couple of points from my side.

While flying out of Mumbai, couldn't help but stop and click this Discovery Sport at the airport.




Such a beautiful vehicle! Although, the underlying platform is similar (I am not saying "same", as it is "derived" from D8), the Harrier does not bear any visual resemblance to the hugely popular Discovery Sport. Although, I admire Tata's intention of "creating our own unique identity", I would have preferred a couple of subtle visual hints in the Harrier exterior design that would have reminded people about the #pedigree.



The design is striking and bold. Loved the super-bright DRLs at the front, carried over as is from the concept H5X. They are impossible to miss/ignore on the road. While on the topic of concept, I wish they would have carried over the front faux skid plate design as well from the concept. The one in production version looks too simple now. Placing the headlight unit lower than the physically separate DRL unit is a risky design decision, but I believe Tata Motors would get away with this execution. Although, the Harrier beats its competition in terms of most dimensions, the lower height takes away a few points from the presence. Roofrails could have helped, but I guess Tatas don't believe in such tricks. I have lost track of how many people have asked me "Harrier is a compact SUV, right?" going by the pics. Unless people see the car in person (or see pics which help understand the scale), or read about the actual dimensions; they do not understand how HUGE the Harrier is.

Yes, I loved the exterior design, especially in the signature orange shade. But surprisingly, I hardly noticed any turned heads and curious glances on the road. May be it was due to the drive being in semi-urban and rural areas. During that one and half day, only this RE guy stopped us and wanted to have a closer look at the car. Turned out to be a guy who follows Team-BHP and is a fan of reviews done by Aditya.


Notice the dimples on the projector? Anyone knows if they have a specific purpose or just aesthetic?


The rear fogs are quite bright and functional.


Overall the Harrier sports (no pun intended ) quite an up-market and modern exterior design and doesn't seem out of place even in the lobby of a 5-star hotel.


Interior

Here again, I will focus on just a few additional observations.

Since last few launches, we have sort of started expecting good interiors from Tata Motors products. When the Hexa was launched, I liked the interior more than the exterior. The tradition continues with the Harrier. Once you open the door and settle in any seat, it is impossible not to notice how premium the interior feels.


The simple, clean, uncluttered dashboard design is mighty impressive. The faux Oak-wood panel is the first thing that grabs your attention. The color, pattern and the texture it implies in the reflection is just brilliant. Go ahead and touch it and it delivers on that front as well! Then you touch other parts of the dashboard, the silver insert below the Oak-wood panel, the soft-touch panel on top of the dash, the piano-finish AC vents near the door, the "floating island" infotainment system and you start appreciating the amount of thought that has gone behind the interior design and especially the choice of materials. Except a few bits, the interior oozes premiumness.


The lower portion of the cabin is black, a very sensible choice and I am glad that Tatas didn't fall for "Beige = premium".

When the cabin is sufficiently cooled, the brushed metal surround of the chunky AC vents (the ones closer to the doors) have that distinct reassuring feel of cold metal. I wouldn't be surprised if those surround are made from actual Aluminum.


I tugged on the "floating island" and it is rock solid. Nothing flexes. Nothing creaks. It might look like a single flat piece, but its actually angled as is evident from one of the pics above.
The piano-black panels and buttons are going to be dust and finger-print magnets.


The steering is a mixed bag. Its chunky and nice to hold, but the center pad with a concave portion bearing Tata logo sticks out like a deflated football.


There are 4 grab handles at the front. Two as part of front door pads and two more at the lower portion of the center console. They look nice with the perforated leather wrap on them, but the wrap is wafer-thin with absolutely no padding underneath. You can actually see the silver plastic below those perforations. Those handles are important touch-points of the interior (many more people would grab those handles as compared to touching the soft-touch plastic on top of the dash) and a cost-cutting was not expected here.


Is there enough room on 2nd row for carrying 3 in comfort? I have a view on that. Would share a bit later.

The plastic panels bordering the rear windshield should have been beige, in-line with the color scheme of rest of the upper cabin.


Good attention to detail... trying to match the texture on the plastic b-pillar cover with that of the roof-lining.


The additional hidden storage under the floor.

Quite a bit of bare metal in this hidden storage. So choose wisely what you want to shove in there. Might create irritating rattles otherwise.
I believe this space is meant for the foldable 3rd row seats.

In-Car infotainment

Digital tacho is weird without a needle, but fuel level indicator is very cool - representation of a container with liquid in it! The level of blue liquid in the container goes down as the tank gets empty.

See how the pull-out tab design from infotainment screen matches with the Fuel level indicator pull-out tab design from MID (two areas marked in white rectangles). Superb attention to detail! Did you notice, the car has been refueled?

Drive Impressions

Commanding view. No reflections from dash. Long clutch travel, but light clutch. Fantastic sharp brakes. They drop speed without any drama. Gear lever a bit tall for my liking. Gear throws are a bit long and not smooth slotting. Long haul drivers would not appreciate those. I struggled with the gear shifts. It might be due to my unfamiliarity with the vehicle. Minor vibrations on steering, gear lever are felt at idle. Turning radius is decent. No issues in taking U turns. City and Eco modes are pretty dull. Sports is the mode to be in. The engine noise filtering in the cabin tires you out. Despite all the premium interiors, the cabin misses on quietness. Overall the Harrier drives well, but you have to work through gears 1-2-3. Sharing a few videos from a dashcam that I had plugged in, for a slightly better understanding of how the car feels when in motion.

Low beam spread on highway:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7txBpu2SfQ4

How does the Harrier accelerate in the Sports mode?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQzUZcZhbi4

Ride & Handling

All the #pedigree talk sets expectations in terms of off-road capability and ride comfort associated with a product from a much higher segment. With no AWD or proper 4x4 options, there is not much to talk about the off-road capability. So how is the ride comfort? The front suspension is a direct lift from Discovery Sport (of course after localization), but the rear suspension has been replaced with a simpler & cheaper setup. Tuning the suspension of a SUV/Crossover is not easy and involves a careful tightrope walk. After the Hexa, the Harrier seems to have managed to find the sweet spot again and it does deliver on the riding comfort front. On smooth tarmac, the ride is very comfortable. Be it small speed-breakers or some broken patches, the Harrier just eats them up with ease. On neglected state highways, with significantly poor roads, just keep your foot planted on the accelerator and the suspension soaks up all the undulations, unevenness, broken road edges and even most of the unmarked speed-bumps. With large speed breakers, there is a little bit of tossing around in the cabin, but I believe that's a given in this segment.

Driving through road-widening work:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=seEbeC3NGJo

Driving through a dug-up section:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ieUqW-AcbMw

Going off the tarmac without dropping speed is easy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WfVijc2YsV4

When a tractor decides to join from a crossroad:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhLCW3Mb-Ns

Driving on a sandy track (and managing to get stuck ):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbmEmAsHQUU

With guidance from Aditya, managed to escape from the sand after a few tries:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KplE-zonfMg

[SDP]

A few small things

Thick doors and equally thick doorpads possibly eat into the usable space inside.

This could be the reason why the 2nd row seemed a tight fit for 3, although the outside dimensions of the Harrier are huge.

Check this out: https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/attac...106_162355.jpg

Come to think of it, with that much space available in the doorpads, retractable sunblinds could have been easily provided and those would have not only added to the premiumness of the Harrier, but also made life of 2nd row passengers less painful in harsh Indian summer.

A separate section for placing your smart phone in the rear door-pads is a cool idea.

You know what would have been cooler? Some charging mechanism integrated in the door pad itself rather than dangling a wire from the back of the center arm-rest.

The "9 speaker" setup is basically 2 pairs of components (speaker + tweeter combo) and a subwoofer. The subwoofer is nicely integrated in the boot sidewall, without eating usable space. Bass is "not bad", but a 6 inch sub can not hold candle to decent aftermarket setups. I was disappointed with the tweeters. May be its due to the direction in which they are pointed. Again, a matter of personal opinion. Overall, I believe, the speaker setup in the Harrier gives you bragging rights much more than actual sound quality. The amplifier is below the driver's seat, hidden below carpeting. Not sure how it dissipates heat.

• On Passenger side, the wheel well intrudes a bit too much into the foot-well and your left foot needs to be kept angled. It happens in many other cars as well, just a bit more in the Harrier. Look at the shape of the floor mat in the 2nd pic to understand what I am talking about.
  
  
  
  
• The gear lever itself seemed taller than needed, especially given the height of the center arm-rest.
  
  
• Engaging reverse gear means sliding 2 fingers up while grabbing the gear lever. I really struggled with this design. May be owners would get used to it over a period of time. But, a pull-up ring like what we have in the XUV5OO is a much more functional design.
  
  
• Glove box opening handle orientation is incorrect. You can not open the glove box with right hand fingers (which is the most logical way of opening it) without twisting the hand.
  
  
• Buttons instead of a rotary knob for ACC fan-speed control. Not a fan of buttons or touch-screen interfaces for controlling something like fan speed.
  
  
• Sun-visors don't have pull-out extensions. When the sun rays are hitting the car from the side, the visor might not give you enough cover.
  
  
  
• Bottle holders in door pads are a bit too big for standard 1 liter bottles. Might cause the bottles to rattle when the car is in motion.
  
  
• Headlight leveling mechanism on the headlight stalk! Front and rear fog light controls on the center console! Shouldn't it be the other way around, because fogs would be used more frequently than headlight leveling?
  
  
  
• Cowl over instrument panel is a separate part. Pretty sure there is design reason for that, but these separate panels tend to cause rattles and creaking sound after some time. Mahindras learnt that in the first gen XUV and integrated the cowl with the overall dashboard in second generation XUV.
  
  
• Exposed Styrofoam padding inside the fender looks ugly.
  
  
• Lot of empty space in the engine bay with the ground visible at multiple places. Rat-proofing the engine bay (if needed) would be quite a task.
  
  
• Center arm-rest opening lever is push-button style. Logically should have been pull-up style.
  
• The rear USB slot placement is very easy to miss. In fact, I couldn't find it at all even after looking for it. On top of that, one Tata guy told me that there is no USB slot in the rear. But, not a problem. Once you know where it is, you know where it is.

Overall, I liked the Harrier very much. Hope Tatas address the niggles and inconsistencies real soon and allow the Harrier to reach its true potential.