[AdityaDeane]

Originally Posted by Brishti

Two questions:-

I am thinking of the Hexa 4X2 instead of a Creta but I have a a few questions:

...

2. Since I will be in mussoorie for the next 5 years and I have never driven such a heavy car on inclines so I am not sure how will it handle steep inclines. Just imagine a 60 degree tar angle road and a hexa 4X2 being driven on it with a start-stop motion "Cars come from the opposite way so have to stop and give way"

Hello Brishti! I have worked in Mussoorie for almost 5 years and my vehicle of use was a humble Tata Nano Twist XT. Mullingar Road (what you have referred to as a 60 degree tar angle road) is not that steep, yes it's about 28-30 degrees gradient. Even my Nano had trouble when fully loaded if there was traffic coming down from towards Landour, but otherwise even my Nano with people and luggage on board could climb it easily if I did not have to stop to brake the motion, so rest assured that Hexa can definitely do it without breaking a sweat. We used to live near Char Dukan, so after Mullingar had to climb up all the way till there, on another steep gradient, but I believe that it is lesser than Mullingar.

If you are referring to the short-cut road from Dhanaulti Bypass to Barlowganj (near Jaypee Hotel), then yes that may be steeper than 31 degrees (Nano's maximum doable gradient) because even with 2 people on board, it does not climb even halfway up there. Rest I can not remember any steep climbs in Mussoorie, except Hotel driveways which are mostly devoid of any oncoming traffic.

Always remember, vehicle going up has the right of way in hills and you can hold your ground and ask the vehicle coming downhill on your way to reverse back till he can make space for your vehicle to pass, unless there are about 5-10 vehicles hot on his heels coming down and you're the only one going up!

With your choice of vehicles, I am not able to rightfully judge if you require a 7 seater at all, or just a 5 seater will also do? Because you are comparing between Hexa and Creta for the hills. If a 5 seater can fulfil your family travelling requirements, I would advise you to go for it, because parking will always remain a problem in Mussoorie.

If you definitely require a 7 seater, I would advice you to go for Ertiga (1695mm width) or B-RV (1735mm width) rather than Hexa (1903mm width). Extended weekends and summer vacations cause traffic havoc in Landour region in particular, and in Mussoorie in general. Also, the longer the vehicle, the harder to find an appropriate parking space that will not obstruct the traffic movement, case in point Ertiga (4265mm long), B-RV (4456mm long) and Hexa (4788mm long).

If a 5 seater can fulfil your requirement, then also try and find a car which is not too wide because of the same reasons. I hope that it'll help you in deciding on which vehicle to go for. I love the Hexa, not a big Creta fan, but if you're going to be in Mussoorie for the next 5 years, then make a sensible choice as per the terrain and traffic, rather than what your heart wants.

[Latheesh]

Originally Posted by arif_t01

This is a video comparing HEXA 4x4 & XUV500 AWD for their limited 4x4 capability. Please keep in mind that, it also depends on the drivers' ability largely.

That video is made by a TBHPian

[JediKnight]

Originally Posted by Brishti

Two questions:-

I am thinking of the Hexa 4X2 instead of a Creta but I have a a few questions:

1. How is the FE compared to Creta 1.6 for mostly in-city driving in a place like mussoorie.

2. Since I will be in mussoorie for the next 5 years and I have never driven such a heavy car on inclines so I am not sure how will it handle steep inclines. Just imagine a 60 degree tar angle road and a hexa 4X2 being driven on it with a start-stop motion "Cars come from the opposite way so have to stop and give way"

EDIT: I am just afraid that a car with a weight of 2400kg will get stuck once I stop on a steep incline and result only in wheel spin.

I have driven a 2WD Safari Storme with the same engine (Varicor 400) on steep slopes. And it sucked big time. The problem is that the first gear is not low enough and you get caught in the engine's turbo lag. If you loose momentum on a steep slope you have rev the engine past the turbo lag and then dump the clutch. Not a smooth graceful takeoff. A bolero DI would do the same routine without a sweat. That to with only 63 HP and 5 people on board.

[AdityaDeane]

[Time for Editing had expired] Wanted to change my text as follows:

I presume that you're talking about Mullingar climb (what you have referred to as a 60 degree tar angle road) which even though is steep but is not that steep, yes it's about 28-30 degrees gradient. Even my Nano had trouble when fully loaded if there was traffic coming down from towards Landour, but otherwise even my Nano with people and luggage on board could climb it easily if I did not have to stop to break the motion, so rest assured that Hexa can definitely do it without breaking a sweat. We used to live near Char Dukan, so after Mullingar had to climb up all the way till there, on another steep gradient, but I believe that it is lesser than Mullingar.

If you are referring to the short-cut road from Dhanaulti Bypass to Barlowganj (near Jaypee Hotel), then yes that may be steeper than 31 degrees (Nano's maximum doable gradient) because even with 2 people on board, it (Nano) does not climb even halfway up there. Rest I can not remember any steep climbs in Mussoorie, except Hotel driveways which are mostly devoid of any oncoming traffic.

[JediKnight]

Originally Posted by AdityaDeane

[Time for Editing had expired] Wanted to change my text as follows:

I presume that you're talking about Mullingar climb (what you have referred to as a 60 degree tar angle road) which even though is steep but is not that steep, yes it's about 28-30 degrees gradient. Even my Nano had trouble when fully loaded if there was traffic coming down from towards Landour, but otherwise even my Nano with people and luggage on board could climb it easily if I did not have to stop to break the motion, so rest assured that Hexa can definitely do it without breaking a sweat. We used to live near Char Dukan, so after Mullingar had to climb up all the way till there, on another steep gradient, but I believe that it is lesser than Mullingar.

If you are referring to the short-cut road from Dhanaulti Bypass to Barlowganj (near Jaypee Hotel), then yes that may be steeper than 31 degrees (Nano's maximum doable gradient) because even with 2 people on board, it (Nano) does not climb even halfway up there. Rest I can not remember any steep climbs in Mussoorie, except Hotel driveways which are mostly devoid of any oncoming traffic.

You are making an assumption since your Nano can climb, hence Hexa should be able to climb even more easily. Its not that simple. Small hatches tend to be very good at climbing slopes. The Alto is a great hill climber. Ultimately it is the torque characteristics of the vehicle, its weight and the gearing which matter most.

[SmartCat]

Originally Posted by arif_t01

This is a video comparing HEXA 4x4 & XUV500 AWD for their limited 4x4 capability. Please keep in mind that, it also depends on the drivers' ability largely.

Originally Posted by Latheesh

That video is made by a TBHPian

Here you go -
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/4x4-ex...-awd-cars.html

[AdityaDeane]

Originally Posted by JediKnight

You are making an assumption since your Nano can climb, hence Hexa should be able to climb even more easily. Its not that simple. Small hatches tend to be very good at climbing slopes. The Alto is a great hill climber. Ultimately it is the torque characteristics of the vehicle, its weight and the gearing which matter most.

My assumption is also based on the fact that I have driven our hospital's Sumo Victa and Bolero SLX also up and down that road ample number of times. I am seen Innova's, Aria's, Safari's, etc. climb up easily without much problem. Problems come up when inexperienced drivers start climbing on half clutches and burn their clutch plates on steep inclines worsening the traffic problem. Always use a Hand Brake for pick up if your vehicle does not have Hill Hold Assist is what I follow. Rest is up to the BHPian who asked the opinions...

[VKumar]

Originally Posted by JediKnight

I have driven a 2WD Safari Storme with the same engine (Varicor 400) on steep slopes. And it sucked big time. The problem is that the first gear is not low enough and you get caught in the engine's turbo lag.

I have felt exactly same with Hexa too, the automatic has no issues but in the manual you have to revv it quite a bit to make it climb. It's not for no reason I say that nothing beats a Scorpio when it comes to driving uphill. It has everything you need, a good visibility, decent low end and a short gearing.

If you loose momentum on a steep slope you have rev the engine past the turbo lag and then dump the clutch. Not a smooth graceful takeoff.

Using handbrake helps there, its just that you have to revv a bit and release the handbrake only at the moment the vehicle starts trying to move ahead. Actually hill hold also doesn't help me at times while driving someone else's car as it takes me a bit of time to reach the biting point and till then the vehicle starts rolling back. And I just hate revving, every car manages to climb at hardly 1500-1600 rpm, why to revv it like anything then?

A bolero DI would do the same routine without a sweat. That to with only 63 HP and 5 people on board.

There is no replacement of displacement after all. Else the 250 HP trucks also would have started coming with 2.5l turbo diesel engines.

Originally Posted by AdityaDeane

I presume that you're talking about Mullingar climb (what you have referred to as a 60 degree tar angle road) which even though is steep but is not that steep, yes it's about 28-30 degrees gradient.

I agree about that road, it should be a mickey mouse job for a Hexa in my opinion. Yes having idiots coming from up is an issue and yes, the drivers from plains (Yes, I am talking about Delhi boys); especially the ones with less experience are really hard to deal with. They just don't understand that they have to give way to the climbing vehicle.

If you are referring to the short-cut road from Dhanaulti Bypass to Barlowganj (near Jaypee Hotel), then yes that may be steeper than 31 degrees

If you are talking about that particular concrete road with a railing on left hand side that is near the place where we get to see a lot of waste (I call that waste landslide) on the byepass road, then that one is really steep, it can give a torture to even a few experienced drivers; leave aside anyone new. I, personally would never want to drive a 2.2 tonne vehicle there with a 'puny' 2.2l engine and a manual transmission with a vehicle or two coming from opposite direction time and again.

That said, I had a bad experience 2 months back while climbing up from bhatta falls, I was driving a Scorpio. Actually once you turn for the falls from the main road, there is a very steep decline with a very sharp and steep turn hardly 300-400 meters from the beginning of the decline, the road is narrow with a free fall on the right hand side.

I saw this white Honda City coming from up around 2 turns back and blew my horn a few times but this DL (Delhi) guy was absolutely nonsense, he didn't pay any attention and was smack opposite to me just after taking the turn.

There was space from where he could pass, but he was terrified at the idea of driving inches away from the edge. Since I was also the lone driver in the Scorpio, I asked him to climb the Scorpio, as soon as he started; he rolled the SUV at least 10 feet back before he applied brakes and finally released the clutch in panic which stalled and stopped the SUV. Till then a Vitara Brezza also joined from behind (UP16 or Noida boy), he was also unable to reverse his car. In fact he was so much terrified at the idea of reversing that he directly said "bhaiya gaadi gir jayegi (It will go down the cliff)".
Finally I gave up, first I reversed Brezza by around 100 meters to a point where passing was possible and then the City by around 30 meters, told Brezza guy to stnd outside and if any other vehicle comes then get it parked at one point where passing was possible. Then finally managed to reach back on the main road. Rest I personally don't find anything in Mussoorie as steep as the first 300 meters of the Bhatta fall road and I believe that in right hands, a Hexa can take that incline like a breeze even with seven passengers and their full luggage on board.

Originally Posted by AdityaDeane

Problems come up when inexperienced drivers start climbing on half clutches and burn their clutch plates on steep inclines worsening the traffic problem.

And Mussoorie encounters plenty of them, many drive up from Dehradun with smiling faces just waiting to be caught by surprise in the market!

Always use a Hand Brake for pick up if your vehicle does not have Hill Hold Assist is what I follow. Rest is up to the BHPian who asked the opinions...

I follow the same in all the manual cars, even in the cars with hill hold.

[AdityaDeane]

Originally Posted by VKumar

That said, I had a bad experience 2 months back while climbing up from bhatta falls, I was driving a Scorpio. Actually once you turn for the falls from the main road, there is a very steep decline with a very sharp and steep turn hardly 300-400 meters from the beginning of the decline, the road is narrow with a free fall on the right hand side.

I had completely forgotten about that steep incline. I went there sometime in 2010-2011 period when I was in Dehradun for my college. i had gone on my Unicorn. The road was all broken back then and even in first gear without a pillion rider I had so much trouble driving my bike all the way up. Thanks for reminding me...

I do not doubt any vehicle's capability, just that the person behind the wheel should be more or less equally capable to handle the situation on the inclines and not give up or become dangerous for others. Hexa is a good vehicle, even Creta I am assuming is a good vehicle. Now it is Brishti's call to go for whatever vehicle he feels he will be comfortable to manoeuvre in the narrow hilly roads of Mussoorie.

[Brishti]

Originally Posted by JediKnight

I have driven a 2WD Safari Storme with the same engine (Varicor 400) on steep slopes. And it sucked big time.

That is disheartening to hear, earlier it was the weight only that was a problem but now the gearing is too :( The XUV 500 weight is around 1800Kg and this thing weights 300Kg more so I am wondering what impact will it have in FE and in such climes.

Originally Posted by VKumar

I have felt exactly same with Hexa too, the automatic has no issues but in the manual you have to revv it quite a bit to make it climb. It's not for no reason I say that nothing beats a Scorpio when it comes to driving uphill. It has everything you need, a good visibility, decent low end and a short gearing.

Revv it then ride the half clutch but doesn't that burn the clutch plate, secondly you have a HEXA so you are a perfect person to tell me if its more car like to drive or more SUV "Safari" type?

Also is the Auto worth getting over the manual the price difference is there plus average is certainly worst and on hills it will come down to single digits for sure.

How much Avg kmpl are you getting also is there any rusting in any parts? How long has your car been with you and any niggles that you faced?

Originally Posted by AdityaDeane

I had completely forgotten about that steep incline. I went there sometime in 2010-2011 period when I was in Dehradun for my college. i had gone on my Unicorn. The road was all broken back then and even in first gear without a pillion rider I had so much trouble driving my bike all the way up. Thanks for reminding me.

That road is exactly the one I am talking about now they have patched it up a little with some parts tared and others well not tared. The Honda City diesel which is around 1100Kg gets stuck a bit if I stop mid clime and then I have to revv hard and after a little wheel spin it starts moving again but in this way the wheels get worn out sooner and there is always risk of side-ward moment which is scary.

[AdityaDeane]

Originally Posted by Brishti

That road is exactly the one I am talking about now they have patched it up a little with some parts tared and others well not tared.

Well, if you going to stay in Bhatta and going to traverse on the Bhatta Fall steep incline, then you better enquire from local taxi drivers about which MPV/SUV/vehicle climbs easily on that steep slope. It'll be worth a shot to get some local intel to help you make your purchase decision. All the best.

[krishnakarthik1]

The offer this month on hexa is simple. 20k exchange discount and free insurance. Roughly translates into 90k if you were to take 70k worth tata insurance into consideration.

[saurabh2711]

+1 to krishnakarthik1.

May be but in fact currently offer is on all Tata outlets for all cars. Free insurance on all cars (all variants), if billing done before 31st March. Along with Exchange bonus if availed.

[Ironhide]

Originally Posted by Brishti

Two questions:-

I am thinking of the Hexa 4X2 instead of a Creta but I have a a few questions:

1. How is the FE compared to Creta 1.6 for mostly in-city driving in a place like mussoorie.

2. Since I will be in mussoorie for the next 5 years and I have never driven such a heavy car on inclines so I am not sure how will it handle steep inclines. Just imagine a 60 degree tar angle road and a hexa 4X2 being driven on it with a start-stop motion "Cars come from the opposite way so have to stop and give way"

EDIT: I am just afraid that a car with a weight of 2400kg will get stuck once I stop on a steep incline and result only in wheel spin.

Originally Posted by avinash_m

I guess you meant it the other way; a RWD (Hexa) will be worse off than a FWD (Creta), when driving up an incline. RWDs would spin their wheels (on ice or loose surface) since the comparative weight on the driving wheels is much less, as compared to FWDs where the engine weight does the trick.

Originally Posted by VKumar

For the kind of terrain in and around Mussoorie and the tight city premises, where you don't get space to park even a two wheeler at times, my suggestion would be to go for the Creta as it will be easier to live with in Mussoorie with lighter controls, smaller size and brilliant performance - not to forget, better fuel economy too. You can get the top end variant with ESP and 6 airbags, that must keep you happy I believe.

I don't know about what other members have observed, but I have always felt that Mahindra 2.2 is an engine better tuned or suited for hilly drives as compared to the 2.2 from Tata. People may have their own take but I am yet to find any other SUV which can better the Scorpio under 20 lac when it comes to hilly drives or driving uphill.

Back to Hexa, no place in Mussoorie or surrounding Mussoorie is tricky enough to get a Hexa caught up, no incline is beyond the capabilities of Hexa, in fact the trickiest road is the decline and incline to Bhatta falls en route to Dehradun and a Hexa can easily negotiate it too.

For a car to be used in Mussoorie the prerequisites are small footprint, manoeuvrability and a healthy power/torque to weight ratio. A Hexa , with its large dimensions, a large turning circle, significant weight and the fact that it's a RWD may not be the obvious choice for the hills.
Mussoorie, if you have noticed, is always short of parking space, as is the case with other hill stations too. And the roads, many of which have evolved from pony tracks, weren't really designed keeping in mind generous turning circles of modern day SUVs. Unless you're going to be extensively visiting Doon / Delhi / Chandigarh or any other city in the plains every other week, & need the highway cruising abilities of Hexa, owning and using it in the confines of Mussoorie would be a chore. Of course it would go everywhere in Mussoorie, Char Dukan & Bhatta included , getting there would be an effort.

If you're primarily going to be based in Mussoorie, with only occasional trips down to the valley, a smaller, nimble, easier to park hatch would make eminent sense. The smaller car also would prove itself to be useful in exploring nearby places in Garhwal or even further north. Maybe when you do come down to the plains for good, then you could consider getting a full sized SUV.

As regards Hexa's dynamics in the hills, maybe you should ask Puffdamgcdragon who is based in Gangtok and the road conditions there are similar to Mussoorie. The traffic there though I'm given to believe, is much more disciplined unlike in Mussoorie.

Cheers !

[AdityaDeane]

Originally Posted by Ironhide

For a car to be used in Mussoorie the prerequisites are small footprint, manoeuvrability and a healthy power/torque to weight ratio. A Hexa , with its large dimensions, a large turning circle, significant weight and the fact that it's a RWD may not be the obvious choice for the hills.
Mussoorie, if you have noticed, is always short of parking space, as is the case with other hill stations too. And the roads, many of which have evolved from pony tracks, weren't really designed keeping in mind generous turning circles of modern day SUVs. Unless you're going to be extensively visiting Doon / Delhi / Chandigarh or any other city in the plains every other week, & need the highway cruising abilities of Hexa, owning and using it in the confines of Mussoorie would be a chore. Of course it would go everywhere in Mussoorie, Char Dukan & Bhatta included , getting there would be an effort.

If you're primarily going to be based in Mussoorie, with only occasional trips down to the valley, a smaller, nimble, easier to park hatch would make eminent sense. The smaller car also would prove itself to be useful in exploring nearby places in Garhwal or even further north. Maybe when you do come down to the plains for good, then you could consider getting a full sized SUV.

Agree with you there...

Originally Posted by Ironhide

As regards Hexa's dynamics in the hills, maybe you should ask Puffdamgcdragon who is based in Gangtok and the road conditions there are similar to Mussoorie.

Disagree with you here a bit. My In-Laws are from Kalimpong (Darjeeling) and I have been to Gangtok from there as well. There is a vast difference in Road Conditions between the 2 places. Mussoorie has narrow undivided roads while Gangtok has wider divided roads. Also, I did not find much steep roads in or around Gangtok as are in Mussoorie. But yes he can guide you about hill dynamics of Hexa for sure.

Originally Posted by Ironhide

The traffic there though I'm given to believe, is much more disciplined unlike in Mussoorie.

Indeed the driving crowd there is far better civilised than the people who drive up here in North India on the hills. There they follow lane discipline and give way to vehicles going up the incline, all this in totally absent in Mussoorie and other hill stations up north. One has to be to that place to see how clean the state is and how well people stick to sensible driving. I was so shocked when I went there to see traffic rules being followed and no one went driving criss-cross or changing lanes frequently just to get ahead of at least 1 vehicle. It felt so very good to be there.

And if a 5 seater like Creta will do for Brishti, then why not take a look at other C-SUV's as well, width wise you have W-RV (1734mm), Brezza (1765mm), Creta (1780mm), Ecosport (1790mm), Nexon (1811mm), Captur (1813mm) or Duster/Terrano (1822mm). W-RV will be an apt vehicle for the hilly conditions due to not being too wide. Just a thought.

And if a 7 seater is a must, I would still recommend Ertiga (1695mm width) then B-RV (1735mm width) then Lodgy (1751mm width) then Hexa (1903mm width) due to width differences.

Just my 2 cents.

I might move back to Thatyur (30Km from Mussoorie) next month and will be crossing Mussoorie to come home every week. Would love to meet the BHP-ians in Mussoorie some day for sure. Would be good to see which vehicle Brishti buys after all this discussion!