[sandeepmohan]

Originally Posted by Malhi

Undoubtedly, the Innova's reliability, comfort and the ability to take abuse is unmatched in it's price bracket

Indeed. Its not for nothing Toyota India still sells em as there is no substitute in the market. Its too early to say if the Hycross has the Innova's level of dependability with the Hybrid powertrain. Its a proven system world wide though. I think you will appreciate the refinement and comfort of the Hycross. Probably not the best option for rough use.

At the cheaper end of the spectrum, I can only think of Scorpio. This remains a simple, reliable Mahindra.

I think a Fortuner fares worse than an Innova when it comes to occupant comfort and space.

[s2K_scorpioN]

Originally Posted by g_sanjib

Yes, I have just recently got the AT Oil changed for my Crysta.

I now finally feel that the money spent was definitely worth it and YES nothing is really "sealed for life" in auto mechanics. Everything needs periodic maintenance and change. Very happy with the experience now and loving the silky smooth and very limited diesel clutter noise drive to my office .

The whole life long gear oil is just a gimmick. Car manufacturers also take into consideration the overall lifetime carbon footprint of the vehicle they manufacture. Oils is a big contributor to this. This is also the reason German cars have engine oil intervals of 15K. It doesn't matter the oil, the ideal interval has always been 8K or less. After that, it will deteriorate quickly under real word operation.

[octy9833]

Originally Posted by g_sanjib

Yes, I have just recently got the AT Oil changed for my Crysta.

In the attached photographs you will see that when they flushed out the old oil, around 1700 ML of oil came out and what went inside was 4 Litres of oil !! That itself convinced me that I took the right decision of replacing the oil. When I asked the service folks as to why only 1700 ML of old oil came out, they mentioned that that the AT gearbox gets so hot that over a period of time, oil gets evaporated !! Means the gearbox was running at almost 135% of deficit oil needed to perform its best . But it was still running quite well and I had no issues. That's Toyota really

How does the ATF evaporate? We know they deteriorate. I do not think the ATF decreases in quantity. For the sake of understanding, how did the SVC guys figure out that they have to add in 4l when only 1.7l drained?

A normal drain and fill follows 'X' amount drained and 'X + 100/200ml' added back, repeated 2 - 3 times for a full flush.

[sagarpadaki]

Originally Posted by g_sanjib

In the attached photographs you will see that when they flushed out the old oil, around 1700 ML of oil came out and what went inside was 4 Litres of oil !! That itself convinced me that I took the right decision of replacing the oil. When I asked the service folks as to why only 1700 ML of old oil came out, they mentioned that that the AT gearbox gets so hot that over a period of time, oil gets evaporated !!

The oil getting evaporated is not true. The gearbox is a closed system-unless there is a leak somewhere, oil level cannot go down. I wonder if Toyota guys followed the proper procedure to drain the oil because 1700ml is very less for a Torque converter AT mated to a 2.8L engine. My hunch is that there is more old oil inside and not all was removed. Do you have access to the service manual of the Innova crysta? The exact procedure would have been described over there.

Somehow, it does not feel right to me to drain 1.7L and refill 4L of oil. Was the transmission filter also replaced?

Originally Posted by octy9833

How does the ATF evaporate? We know they deteriorate. I do not think the ATF decreases in quantity. For the sake of understanding, how did the SVC guys figure out that they have to add in 4l when only 1.7l drained?

A normal drain and fill follows 'X' amount drained and 'X + 100/200ml' added back, repeated 2 - 3 times for a full flush.

In a torque converter, one should not flush the system like engine. Reason is that the clutch pack material will be floating in the oil and will provide necessary friction needed. If the transmission is run for like 100K kms and oil is flushed, the debris are lost and the clutch will start slipping with new oil. Just removing the entire oil as described in service manual and replacing with fresh oil + few hundred ml extra to account for loss in the filter(assuming new filter is used) is sufficient.

[arjithin]

Originally Posted by octy9833

How does the ATF evaporate? We know they deteriorate. I do not think the ATF decreases in quantity. For the sake of understanding, how did the SVC guys figure out that they have to add in 4l when only 1.7l drained?

A normal drain and fill follows 'X' amount drained and 'X + 100/200ml' added back, repeated 2 - 3 times for a full flush.

ATF volume is very dependent on the temperature of fluid and hence the requirement that the change /flush to be done on a specific temperature. 2.3L missing oil seems to indicate either an incorrect procedure or incorrect temperature or an overfilled AT.

And depending on the method used, for a proper flush, 2x or 3x times original ATF capacity oils are needed. I am speculating, the method used here is to remove the pan & drain the oil from it and put new oil. I have done ATF changes in 3 cars (including a 2012 Camry) myself, and never seen such a drastic gap in oil level

Does the oil color look a lot darker than the new oil ?

[ads295]

Originally Posted by g_sanjib

when they flushed out the old oil, around 1700 ML of oil came out and what went inside was 4 Litres of oil !!

Hello there, and kudos to you for taking this decision.

That said, all your old ATF has definitely not been drained. I only recently drained the auto trans fluid in my Hyundai Sonata, and while the system capacity is 7.8L, I could only drain approx 4-5L (more details in my post here (My Pre-Owned 2005 Hyundai Sonata 2.7L V6 | Ownership Review, Restoration & TLC)).

The previous owner of my car probably assumed just like you that draining removes all the old oil and filled fresh oil as per the manual's stated capacity, because when we checked the ATF level prior to draining, it was well over max capacity. Draining ATF through the plug removes only approx 40% of the total system capacity.

I would strongly recommend you check your current ATF level to make sure it isn't overfilled. Is there a dipstick for that?

[qr20de]

Reinforcing what other members have said here, I've never in my 15 years of studying and working on cars heard of evaporation of trans. oil.

The boiling point of ATF is about 200C, which is around what a diesel engine functions at. He thinks your trans works at the same temp as your engine. Typical mechanic trying to hustle his way around the workshop and customer. In that logic, your rear diff should have also evaporated oil.

There is/was an oil leak or it's not been drained completely. Get the trans double checked.

[Yuvuz]

Originally Posted by g_sanjib

Yes, I have just recently got the AT Oil changed for my Crysta.


One thing to note is that: Only 4 Litres of AT Oil needs to be changed, however you will still need to buy two cans of 4 Litres each, and that is because they put additional oil inside the gearbox and again take it our for testing purposes.

]

My 2011 Camry had it's AT oil changed at the 130k service mark from the dealership. They took a week to order the parts 2x 4L WS, they drained the oil after the car cooled down in the bay and the filled quantity was same as the drained quantity. This was performed twice and once again after 1000kms. Using this method the AT oil level at cold and hot was at the exact mark. I would recommend you to cross check about the volume filled with the dealership again.

[amalji]

Originally Posted by audioholic

Has anyone replaced the ATF on their AT Crysta or Fortuner? When was it replaced and any noticeable difference? My car has crossed 40k and has been used in mixed traffic with lots of shifts. Hence was wondering if I should do a partial ATF change without dismantling the oil pan and strainer. So was looking for feedback if it's something that can make a difference or is 40k kms too early for the transmission fluid to break a sweat and the change won't make a difference.

I changed my ATF at 1,05,000 kms. The drive did feel a bit more smooth. But, I am not sure if it's psychological or real. The service center folks gave me a heads up that the replacement is guided by the computer and the quantity of ATF that needs to go in can vary a lot anywhere from 1 can to 3 cans. In my case, it got over in 2 cans.

The part charges came to 10,169.72 INR & labour - 2030.20 INR. So, a total of 12,200 INR.

As with others, they also recommended that there is no need to replace. Some of them claimed that there are innovas with 7 lakhs kms on the odo without any replacement. Then I questioned them about whether it's manual gearbox or automatic and they were not sure of it. So I pushed for this replacement. My rational for ATF replacement is mentioned here (Hyundai India claims its CVT requires no fluid change, service or maintenance).

TLDR: It's better to replace it around 1 lakh kms. Replacing it too frequently or too late, both can be counter productive.

[audioholic]

Originally Posted by amalji

TLDR: It's better to replace it around 1 lakh kms. Replacing it too frequently or too late, both can be counter productive.

Agree, just like you referred to Hyundai, even Skoda and VW have a 60k kms replacement interval for the ATF of the 1.0AT, and they use Aisin transmissions itself though very much different from whats there on the Toyotas. While they claim DSG has lifetime fluid, the strategy is different for the Torque converter. Even my Honda CVT has a 2yr/40k kms replacement interval for the CVT fluid whereas Maruti and Toyota dont recommend the same again. Not sure if this is a well researched suggestion, or just going by what they pick from the Global/Developed country markets.

[g_sanjib]

Originally Posted by Cresterk

Why would there be a difference at all unless engine oil was also changed?

Yes, the engine oil was also changed just about 2 weeks before the change of the AT fluid. So may be that is the reason for the smoothness of the car.

Originally Posted by octy9833

how did the SVC guys figure out that they have to add in 4l when only 1.7l drained?

I just trusted the service folks. Honestly, when you are inside a service Centre, these folks are so busy that they hardly care about what is written in the manual and would do what their training / experience is all about.

Originally Posted by sagarpadaki

Was the transmission filter also replaced?

No they didn't recommend the transmission filter change, else I would have got that done as well. Let me ask about this the next time.

Originally Posted by ads295

Is there a dipstick for that?

Unfortunately, there is no such dipstick to check that. I know that in my Honda City AT, the transmission oil dipstick exists, however no such thing in a Crysta.

Originally Posted by Yuvuz

Does the oil color look a lot darker than the new oil ?

Yes indeed, the used oil color was extremely dark. See the picture attached above in the thread.

Originally Posted by audioholic

At what distance on the odometer did you change the ATF? Did you stay with the car during the process? Overall my car runs fine, but I find the transmission too slow and at lower gears .

I got the AT oil changed 47,700 kms. However, with this experience I believe that its just not only the kms that count, we should also see that for how many years the Oil has not been changed. Since mine is a Jan'17 registered car, hence I believe that 8 years is a good amount of time to get the replacement done. Yes, I was with the vehicle throughout, and the security guy was chasing me and he kept telling me to go and sit in the glass partitioned customer lounge. And as a true car lover, I preferred to stick around with my machine Also, I didn't see a very great difference in the transmission gear changes, however I do think that the car is a lot more smoother now as compared to earlier. Finally, after this change, when my entire family sits in the car and we are cruising at Nice Road, I do get to hear from them that the car is a lot more smoother now, and that makes my day and brings joy to my heart

[Jeroen]

As others have pointed out, the oil did not evaporate!

The reason they only drained 1,7 l is that you can’t drain these systems properly. The largest quantity always remains behind.

If they simply added four liters without checking the levels, your box is now overfilled! Which can become a serious problem!

Auto boxes need to be flushed, not just drained and refilled. That might do more damage than good in all honesty.

A proper flush takes a special flushing machine, flushing/cleaning liquids and some knowledgeable mechanic.

If you haven’t got the machine, the next best thing is to repeatedly drain and refill 4-5 times, in between a short drive.

Filter should have been changed as well. It is simply ridiculous to fill the box with new fluid whilst letting an old filter sit in place.

Sounds like you have been scammed potentially?

Better check the proper levels of the AT fluid in your box before some of the seals pop out! There is usually a procedure on how to that. Varies car by car.,sometimes cold, sometime warm, sometimes with engine running or not.
On my Jaguar there is no dipstick, so you have to use a thermocamera to gauge the level with the engine/box warmed up.

Good luck

Jeroen

[Cresterk]

Originally Posted by ads295

I would strongly recommend you check your current ATF level to make sure it isn't overfilled. Is there a dipstick for that?

Modern transmissions are 'sealed' which is basically just a another way of saying there is no dipstick because people kept screwing them up by trying to change them by themselves like they would change engine oil. Some companies try to advertise this "sealed transmission" as the fluid never needing to be changed but that isn't always correct. Personally in most mainstream toyotas, I would generally not bother unless the transmission showed issues.

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by Cresterk

Modern transmissions are 'sealed' which is basically just a another way of saying there is no dipstick because people kept screwing them up by trying to change them by themselves like they would change engine oil. Some companies try to advertise this "sealed transmission" as the fluid never needing to be changed but that isn't always correct. Personally in most mainstream toyotas, I would generally not bother unless the transmission showed issues.

Well, this particular transmission was filled incorrectly it seems, so better check.
Although many modern transmission don’t have a dipstick some do and some others don’t. An authorised service centre will have the correct dipstick or now the procedure how to check.
On some boxes you need to go through some hoops, to understand the level in the box, e.g.my Jaguar.

Irrespective of having a dipstick or not, this box appears to have been overfilled. So the level needs to checked. All boxes have ways of telling the level, even without a permanent dipstick. It will be in the workshop manual.

Jeroen

[ritedhawan]

Originally Posted by audioholic

Overall my car runs fine, but I find the transmission too slow and at lower gears there is some torque converter lag which I hate, especially after driving the DSG back to back. So thinking of properly replacing the fluid and filling the right quantity.

Originally Posted by Cresterk

That does sound like quite the difference but it does not make sense. We don't normally hear any noise from the transmission. What does diesel engine noise and clutter have to do with transmission oil change? Why would there be a difference at all unless engine oil was also changed? There is no noticeable change in engine noise between manual or automatic crysta either as far as I know.

This model of torque converter is slow. It is functioning normally. I have driven old school 4 speed and and newer 6 speed toyota torque converters and they are all rather slow and laggy on downshifts or when taking off no matter whether they come with a 2.4 diesel, 2.7 petrol, 2.8 diesel or a petrol V8. They won't ever come close to a DSG or the torque converters you find in BMW etc in terms of responsiveness.

The conventional AT is laggy in nature and saps engine power, its ability to convert the engine power is limited and doesnt match DSG. As far as tell tale signs of a incumbent AT fluid replacement is concerned. Please follow this practical advice: since most of you have driven your cars a lot, you are aware of the 'crawl' associated with your car when its on a level ground, and the car is stopped, and then you switch from 'N' to 'D' and since a diesel motor is clubbed to the conventional AT , you expect that crawl of a certain speed , lets say 5-10km\hr. Diminished crawl after a period of time or no crawl is a tell tale sign of AT fluid replacement. Specific to that guy(g_sanjib) who shared a picture of the AT fluid replacement procedure, one of those photos show that 1.7 L fluid which has been drained, even from that photos the color is blackish-brown, I say more black than brown. Thats another sign of fluid replacement.

Yes, AT fluid replacement is needed and 'sealed for life' is a myth.

Originally Posted by sagarpadaki

The oil getting evaporated is not true..... I wonder if Toyota guys followed the proper procedure to drain the oil because 1700ml is very less for a Torque converter AT mated to a 2.8L engine.
....Was the transmission filter also replaced?

In a torque converter, one should not flush the system like engine. Reason is that the clutch pack material will be floating in the oil and will provide necessary friction needed. If the transmission is run for like 100K kms and oil is flushed, the debris are lost and the clutch will start slipping with new oil. .

The oil evaporate theory is a myth. And as far as the pictures that g_sanjib shared, i dont think 'transmisson filter' was changed, this is a miss Toyota service center did and this actually lays credence to the fact that they didnt know the right proceudre for ATF change, perhaps they didnt know how much quantity they were supposed to refill and that tranmission filter needs to be replaced as well. I would rather do a 'drain and fill' AT fluid on a higher mileage car in order to keep that 'debris' floating to keep 'necessary friction' as you put it. A flush in that case will take that out and may not be useful.

Originally Posted by Yuvuz

My 2011 Camry had it's AT oil changed at the 130k service mark from the dealership. They took a week to order the parts 2x 4L WS, they drained the oil after the car cooled down in the bay and the filled quantity was same as the drained quantity. This was performed twice and once again after 1000kms.

.

This is definately 'drain and fill' done twice.

Originally Posted by Jeroen

As others have pointed out, the oil did not evaporate!
The reason they only drained 1,7 l is that you can’t drain these systems properly. The largest quantity always remains behind.
If they simply added four liters without checking the levels, your box is now overfilled! Which can become a serious problem!
Auto boxes need to be flushed, not just drained and refilled. That might do more damage than good in all honesty.
A proper flush takes a special flushing machine, flushing/cleaning liquids and some knowledgeable mechanic.
If you haven’t got the machine, the next best thing is to repeatedly drain and refill 4-5 times, in between a short drive.

Filter should have been changed as well. It is simply ridiculous to fill the box with new fluid whilst letting an old filter sit in place.
Jeroen

Thanks for your valuable advice. The 'oil evaporate' theory is a myth. I can rest assure you, that most of the car manufacturer's service center's here dont have the right equipment to perform the AT flush. They always miss 'transmission filter' replacement as part of AT fluid replacement. g_sanjib never shared the exact quantity for refill, which only leads to the fact that the service guys themselves are not aware of how much refill. Thus no exact quantity to refill oil and no transmission filter replacement , the former only points to the direction of an 'over-fill' and the later miss will only show its sign later.