[deetjohn]

Great review as usual! Thanks for sharing with us!

Coming to the car, the turning radius is really sad, especially for the Diesel. 5.5 meters for a vehicle just 4.4 meters long is crazy. Especially for an urban dweller like the BR-V. This one is going to be a bit of a struggle in the city.

Originally Posted by smartcat

Regarding the position of air intake

Attachment 1510595

Wow! Isn't this like having a cold air intake system in your car?

You should check out the air intake of the Alto K10.

Originally Posted by smartcat

1) Which is better - CVT Vs 6 speed Torque convertor? That's debatable. Both have their strengths and weaknesses. BR-V CVT comes with paddle shifts. Add some brownie points for that.

I prefer a 6 speed Torque Converter over a CVT. I feel the shifts and the gears are more purposeful with the TC unit. But its purely a personal choice. The competence really depends on the engine its mated to and the driving pattern. TC unit will be much more maintenance free I suppose.

From the review, one gets the picture that the CVT unit in BR-V is much improved. Drive both Creta AT and BR-V AT to know more about your preference here.

Originally Posted by smartcat

4) I think I will miss cruise control, but not automatic wipers and headlamps. Is it 6:30 PM? Switch on the headlamps and drive. Is it raining? Switch on the wipers. How hard is that?

Auto wipers are very thoughtful if they are programmed right. Especially when the rain or drizzle is highly intermittent. And the wipers can also pick up speed when if the rain is heavy in auto mode. Its a feature that I use always.

Auto headlamps doesn't work at all. I have hardly put it to use even once.

Originally Posted by smartcat

Just assume that you are getting the following for Rs. 2 Lacs -
5) Engine start/stop button (useless feature according to me!)
6) Keyless entry (useful!)

The beauty of start/stop is when its coupled with keyless entry. That makes the car key totally smart and the driver doesn't have to touch the key at all to unlock the car and get going. The key can remain in your pocket or bag.

But Start/Stop becomes a gimmick when there is no keyless entry.


PS: Sorry to single out your post, but I think you are actively considering the BR-V and just wanted to let you know the practical aspects of some of the kit in the car. The comment on start/stop caught my attention.

Have fun shopping!

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by shashanka

One of the major questions to be asked on this forum , should be to inquire about the crash safety of the car concerned.

BRV - 5 stars. ASEAN NCAP. But rating not applicable for our market due to the absence of ESC. Considering build remains same for Indian version, our car qualifies for four stars.

Point to note- No ISOFIX anchors for child seats on the Indian version. Expect child safety to suffer significantly compared to the ASEAN tested version.

Competition-

Hyundai Creta - 4 stars. Latin NCAP. Rating limited by lack of safety features standard across variants.

Suzuki SCross - 5 stars. ASEAN NCAP. Version had seven airbags. Indian version has only two, and no ESC. And hence qualifies for a maximum of four stars.

Mahindra XUV 5OO - 4 stars. Australian NCAP.

There is not much to choose between all these models when it comes to safety. It's a totally different story altogether that we need to hope and pray that these international ratings are applicable for the build of the Indian versions as well. There is no scientific way to evaluate this as well till a crash test facility comes up here as well.

When it comes to child safety, XUV 5OO and Creta seems to have the advantage in terms of offering ISOFIX mounts.

[ZMG]

Originally Posted by RavenAvi

You are right, though. Both the Creta & the S-Cross are/were grossly overpriced for the overall packages they offered. The S-Cross 1.6 with it's recent price cut has become exceedingly VFM, but since the Creta has tasted blood in monthly sales, Hyundai India won't be indulging in the same anytime soon.
[/left]
[/center]

RavenAvi sir, the VFM terminology used by me is wrong.
I in no way feel the BR-V is a value for money product.
However, the point I am making is, this is how the car makers are today. Everyone has become greedy.
5 years ago when a Swift Dzire ZDI was costing 9 lakhs on the road, I thought it was ridiculous to pay so much for that car.
However, now I see people are happily paying 8 lakhs or more for a top end elite i20 petrol (prices in Bangalore)

In a similar manner, a car that is offering me better looks ( subjective topic, but I really prefer this design over Mobilio and Ertiga) and 7 seats vs 5 seats of Duster, Creta etc, I believe it's okay at this price point in today market.

If Hyundai or Renault were to introduce a 7 seater pseudo SUV ( read MPV), and try to position it against BRV, I am not sure if they would be able to match the price.

As an Indian who has a family of 5 members, a 7 seater car makes a very compelling case because I can always let my chauffeur ferry us around, unlike the need for trying to adjust in the car or take the second car for city runabouts.

I know Ertiga is the best bet here for someone like me, but honestly the dashboard has become too old to look at now ( also I own the swift, hence the same dash in beige)

Regarding the QC, I totally agree with you how the quality has gone down in the recent 2014 avatar. However, I still feel dealing with Honda A$$ is still easier than say Renault or Skoda.
I follow all your threads with excitement and look forward to updates.

Finally I would like to conclude by saying, I believe the BRV has made a compelling case to me, of course others have their opinions and I respect that.

Cheers,
ZMG

[captain.torque]

Originally Posted by swiftdiesel

Your editing skill is commendable and, yes, the edited rear looks good. Having the number plate low is not some new trend. The Creta, as well as the BR-V have large rear windscreens that take up a lot of space. Then, there's the wiper and its motor that need to be accommodated below the windscreen. The rear number plate recess needs to accommodate the little plate lamps, tail gate opener, all in that small space. It's not a design choice to place them low; it's out of a practical necessity

Well, thank you so much for the compliment and providing an insight into the intricacies of how a car is designed. This is why I love T-BHP, you get to learn so much

[SmartCat]

Originally Posted by ZMG

RavenAvi sir, the VFM terminology used by me is wrong.
I in no way feel the BR-V is a value for money product.
However, the point I am making is, this is how the car makers are today. Everyone has become greedy.
5 years ago when a Swift Dzire ZDI was costing 9 lakhs on the road, I thought it was ridiculous to pay so much for that car.
However, now I see people are happily paying 8 lakhs or more for a top end elite i20 petrol (prices in Bangalore)

It's the Government that has become greedy over time, not the car manufacturers

When you are paying Rs. 15 Lacs for a new car, roughly Rs. 7 Lacs is going to Govt kitty in different types of taxes

1) State Road Tax
2) Central Excise duty tax on finished car
3) Excise duty on components (sold to car manufacturers by auto component companies)
4) Import duty on components imported by the car manufacturer

Car manufacturing and sales has become a "sin" industry. It has the third highest level taxation (after cigarettes and liquor) for a consumer product.

That's why almost no new car is VFM. If you want VFM, one needs to look at the pre-owned car market.

[GRAND23]

Originally Posted by -xplora-

Indian market is still a cost driven market. If BR-V would have been priced 1 lac less, most of the reviews and sales forecast would have been praising Honda and BR-V. I think Honda has thought this through.

Coming to Mobilio, with those looks, it is strictly a value based 6-7 people mover and that is where cost / spares etc. play a huge role. Maruti Ertiga is at a sweet spot there. If Maruti did not have Ertiga, Mobilio would have done better. Look at other similar markets where Mobilio actually does better than in India. While those who want comfortable people mover and had the budget, would not think of anything else than Innova.

I don't think still Indian automotive market is completely cost driven. The trend is changing atleast in urban market. I have been reading regularly monthly sales chart. You would notice how the compact SUV and Sedan market is opening up. Many customers are switching to either sedan or compact SUV. My point was, Honda is missing the pulse of the Indian market unlike their rivals Hyundai and Suzuki. People are ready to pay extra bucks for a better car. This is the prime reason why Hyundai creta is having whooping sales.

Even though Honda would have reduced one lakh price, I personally feel things would have not changed much for them. Updating the Mobilio and bringing all new compact SUV should have made things better. Again, Honda should be aggressive to bring their new compact SUV, else the market get completely captured by Hyundai and Suzuki.

As per today, still MPV segment is ruled by Ertiga. The new SVHS should boost their sales further. As you rightly pointed out, customers who are comfortable with budget Innova is their pick. For the mass market, Ertiga is the pick. I personally feel BRV is in between which may take only few sales.

[vb-saan]

Brilliant review as usual!

On the plus side, it looks to be competent product for its segment, with some clever packaging of 7 seats. IMO, this is one of the better looking model from Honda when compared to their other products in Brio platform.

The key negative – there is Mobilio!

[Karthik Chandra]

Originally Posted by ZMG

Great Review! Deserves full 5 stars.

Regarding the car,
Well this is how I see it:

1. It is a HONDA period.

This was true, say, 2 years ago but not anymore. The market is wondering is it the same Honda? With lots of niggles and quality issues.

Originally Posted by ZMG

2. It is priced steeply, but every manufacturer is doing that.

Yes

Originally Posted by ZMG

Look at the prices of Innova Crysta, Fortuner, Creta (for a 5 seater ordinary engine over a million rupees? ), S- Cross ( Though I love it, still for a 1.6 L, paying 15 lakh rupees? )
You get the trend.

But none of the above are based on a platform that is shared with a 5 Lac rupee hatch, so there is no justification for the premium pricing over their flagship sedan city.

Innova and Fortuner - because Toyota has built reputation

Creta - Excellent interiors with safety features, customer has 5 engine-transmission option, has both petrol and diesel AT.
The VTVT is right up there with the iVtec and the CRDi is way ahead of the iDtec

S Cross - Well, MSIL did a price correction

Originally Posted by ZMG

Skoda also provides low equipment level, but I don't see people making a fuss over it.

I suppose Honda does not expect Skoda level of sales


Honda has actually given a practical vehicle, that can serve as MPV to ferry 7 people or carry 5 with loads of Luggage. But they could have given better quality interiors with more equipment for the price. Had they based the BR-V on city platform, it would have be superb

[RavenAvi]

Originally Posted by smartcat

Any reported cases of Brio/Amaze/Mobilio/City stranded on the road? Any reported cases of AC conking off? Turbocharger replacements? Did anybody get a lemon?

If yes, I will definitely buy extended warranty. If no, then Hondas are still reliable. I would classify other issues as "niggles".

My friend,

Gone are the days when a car breaking down on the roadside and viewed with it's bonnet up was the only classification of a "lemon".

A brand-new car cropping up various issues such as it's fan belts whirring like sharpening knives, "engine-check" icon lighting up first thing in the morning, doors refusing to open, driver-door window absolutely refusing to roll down despite numerous pushes of the button, door beadings falling off, etc., would be the part and parcel of what I would deem a "lemon" today. Would you live with/accept all that in a brand-new product you bought with more than a million of your hard-earned rupees? (Link (2014 Honda City VMT i-DTEC - The Golden Brown Royal Eminence. EDIT: Now sold!))

I owned two generations of the City, both poles apart from each other in sheer quality. And yes, I regret selling off my earlier-gen City in a fit of haste to buy the new one.

Squeaks and rattles became a part of niggly compromises ever since the erstwhile Swift became a bestseller. But that is a 5-6 lakh rupee product. This is a product 3 segments up and nearly double the price we are talking about.

Either way, extended warranty is a must-buy, regardless of the reliability of the car in question, just so that the "What if...?" portion in the car's future is covered.

But we are deviating too much from the main topic. Let's get back to the BR-V.

The reason behind the wave of disappointment in BHPians after coming back from checking out the BR-V is because they wanted to like it. The first SUV offering from Honda for the masses - fanboy or no fanboy, everyone wanted to see what Honda brought to the table. The package was a bit underwhelming but competent, and Honda blew out the competent factor by overpricing it.

From a company which was a trendsetter in it's heyday, it has started following trends today. This, at a time when the average car buyer is more informed and can make a sound judgement on his investments/purchases. We BHPians even more so. Selling a product just on the basis of a badge will bite the company badly in the long run.

[abhishek46]

Originally Posted by smartcat

1) Which is better - CVT Vs 6 speed Torque convertor? That's debatable. Both have their strengths and weaknesses. BR-V CVT comes with paddle shifts. Add some brownie points for that.

This is really a very interesting debate!

1. Both the CVT and TC Units are smooth and jerk free in day to day operation. No doubt about that.

2. CVT has a rubber band effect, while the TC unit doesn't.
In the city, if you want to indulge in point and shoot maneuvers, or close some gaps fast, then the CVT will disappoint.
On highway, in spirited runs and fast overtaking, CVT will again disappoint.

3. CVTs are relatively simple and maintenance free. TC Units are complex

4. Paddle shifts on a step-less CVT do not make much sense in my opinion.
In a TC unit, paddle shifts could be used to move up and down actual gears.
There are no actual gears to move up and down in a CVT. So, the feeling is a bit artificial here.
However, In some CVTs, the CVT unit uses a set of fixed 'bands' or 'ratios' of the belt. This mimics a set of gear ratios.
Because of that, it 'feels' like a TC unit, and shifting up/down manually results in immediate change in the fixed band/gear ratio (just like any other gearbox).
I am not sure if that is the case in Honda's CVT.

In the end, one must drive both the CVT and TC equipped cars himself/herself in different driving conditions and then chose.

[-xplora-]

Originally Posted by RavenAvi

My friend,


The reason behind the wave of disappointment in BHPians after coming back from checking out the BR-V is because they wanted to like it. The first SUV offering from Honda for the masses - fanboy or no fanboy, everyone wanted to see what Honda brought to the table. The package was a bit underwhelming but competent, and Honda blew out the competent factor by overpricing it.

Agreed, I think the expectation from BHPians was more of HR-V and less of Mobilio / Brio in the BR-V. Add to the fact that Mobilio was launched before this. Honda must have thought a lot before making this product. The Indian market is a precarious one for sure. Large players with amazing products have failed, while weird products do wonders. Example Swift Dzire ( probably the most undesirable looking vehicle on the planet ), but sells like wild fire based on its value proposition.

Honda could not have priced it 50-80k more to add AVN and other missing elements, as that would seriously put BR-V in XUV territory, so the best thing is to provide as an accessory, which is smart. Pricing lower than this would have been better, but I guess Honda and every other company is here to make money. If its pricing is off, we will see it in sales and they will discount it or add free AVN + other things as a package and make it interesting.

From a company which was a trendsetter in it's heyday, it has started following trends today. This, at a time when the average car buyer is more informed and can make a sound judgement on his investments/purchases. We BHPians even more so. Selling a product just on the basis of a badge will bite the company badly in the long run.

I think Honda did the mistake of not launching few Civics and Accords if not HR-Vs. That dented their "premium" image, while promoting Brio and Amaze. Hence its been increasingly looked at as a Maruti or a Hyundai. While Hyundai has just done the opposite, instead of focusing on i10s and Accents it has moved up the value chain with Cretas and i20 elites. Honda and Hyundai have switched places, but in that gamble of volumes, Honda has to face Marutis and Hyundais the 800 pound gorillas in this space.

[viren83]

The rear overhangs reminds me of the Mahindra Bolero pick ups. Mix-n-match and you could develop any truck out of it. The BRV just looks UGLY from that side-angle.
Creta anyday for me!

[PapaBravo]

Originally Posted by smartcat

More thoughts:

Regarding missing internal boot release:

Sheesh! Does this mean I have to get out of the car and open the bootlid whenever I go to a shopping mall? I think I might have to just ask the guard to peek into the boot through the rear windshield!

Hi smartcat. In case of no boot release lever, you will just have to unlock the car. By remote or by unlocking the driver door. This would unlock all the doors including boot. Once that is done, the boot can be opened by anyone behind the car. Duster used the same system. You press the unlock button on the dash to unlock the boot. The guards at mall just press the button to open it.

Regards,

Pawan

[srishiva]

Just ridding of the cab forward design removing the dip and the dip on the rear door makes some difference to the stance and differentiate from Mobilio

[SmartCat]

Originally Posted by RavenAvi

The reason behind the wave of disappointment in BHPians after coming back from checking out the BR-V is because they wanted to like it. The first SUV offering from Honda for the masses - fanboy or no fanboy, everyone wanted to see what Honda brought to the table. The package was a bit underwhelming but competent, and Honda blew out the competent factor by overpricing it.

I have bookmarked your thread, will check it out later. Not sure about the "boy" part, but yeah, I'm a fan of Honda. All based on experience of owning the Honda Civic and 3rd gen Honda City.

Regarding BR-V and the general perception of the car among Team-BHP members : Lots of weightage is given to characteristics under "What you won't" while the car's characteristics under "What you will like" are totally ignored.

However, from what I've noticed so far all these years, the overall consensus opinion of team-bhp members is almost always RIGHT, and it will eventually reflect in the sales of that particular car. So I expect BR-V to clock 4000 or 5000 per month initially, but eventually settle down at 1000 per month levels.

Originally Posted by abhishek46

This is really a very interesting debate!

After booking the CVT variant, I did lots of Youtube /Google research on CVT gearbox, because I was a bit worried about the long term reliability. CVT was big some years back but was taken off the shelf because of certain issues. But now, it has been reintroduced by many manufacturers - so I'm guessing the new CVTs are much improved.

Why a CVT is Basically The Perfect Transmission
http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cult...-the-best-one/

The Unsinkable CVT: How the "Gearless" Transmission Is Getting Its Groove Back
http://www.caranddriver.com/features...e-back-feature

Does a CVT Ruin a Subaru?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DyTL3tPN8Gg