[niruvrs9669]

Originally Posted by Turbanator

A single owned vehicle will always be better over Demo in my opinion.

Here's my dilemma, I was looking out to pick a phased out 3.2 L endeavour.

Two days ago, I test drove the new 2.0L at the Ford showroom. Figured that it comes with all the bells and whistles and an awesome ride quality, except for the engine which can't be driven in a regular 'D' mode. The engine feels strained when pushed harder with just 2 people in it. However, with 'Sport' mode the gears were holding up a bit longer and the performance was pretty decent for city use, which is what it would be used for predominantly. Five or six 1000km+ long drives on highways in a year with very little off road use.

Yesterday, I also test drove a 2019 Jan manufactured and Feb 2020 registered preowned Endeavour with 36000 km mileage on it, which definitely had a bit more punch with added noise with windows rolled down. I also noticed some mild 'bell' noise on acceleration. The agent informed me that it isn't a Demo vehicle and was typically used for long drives Mangalore and Hyderabad, from Bangalore. The asking price was 35 L.

However, going by the manufacturing date of January 2019 and registered date of Feb 2020 (RC) and the vehicle mileage standing at 36,000 km, I had my doubts. I did call the Ford dealer to double check. Without any hesitation he said it has to be a Demo car as 36,000 km can't be practically clocked between Feb 2020 and Jan 2021 during the Covid lock-down times and that it was registered in Feb 2020. He also informed me that the history of the vehicle is hard to pull up as the Demo's typically run on Temp registration numbers and the Dealer would ensure service history is maintained only from the date of sale/registration.

Later in evening, I also test drove another preowned 2017 3.2L model with 45000 km mileage on it but felt like the auto transmission was struggling with shifts and there was significant noise. It wasn't fun to drive either.

Question is whether it's worth pursuing this idea of going for this more punchy preowned Demo 3.2 L "vs" a frugal 2.0 L with better gear shifts and drive it in 'S' mode all the time ? Or is it worth waiting it out for the new Bi-Turbo later this year/next year ?


Appreciate your views.

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[Turbanator]

Originally Posted by niruvrs9669

Demo's typically run on Temp registration numbers and the Dealer would ensure service history is maintained only from the date of sale/registration.

I also test drove another preowned 2017 3.2L model with 45000 km mileage on it but felt like the auto transmission was struggling with shifts. It wasn't fun to drive either.

Question is whether it's worth pursuing this idea of going for this more punchy preowned Demo 3.2 L "vs" a frugal 2.0 L with better gear shifts and drive it in 'S' mode all the time ? Or is it worth waiting it out for the new Bi-Turbo later this year/next year ?

Avoid Demo at all costs, if you have any doubts, have a look at the YouTube videos many bloggers post or visit a Ford or Toyota dealership and see how most prospects or even people who have otherwise no budget tend to experience such vehicles

As you might have read elsewhere, key to buying a pre-owned is patience, something will come, just wait for the right example. Regarding the wait for new Bi-Turbo, I expect, Ford to launch it sooner due to competition from Toyota. You should also consider the new Fortuner unless you are absolutely sold on the Endeavour. I will pick ventilated seats over the panoramic roof.

[SuperFlyBoy]

Originally Posted by niruvrs9669

Question is whether it's worth pursuing this idea of going for this more punchy preowned Demo 3.2 L "vs" a frugal 2.0 L with better gear shifts and drive it in 'S' mode all the time ? Or is it worth waiting it out for the new Bi-Turbo later this year/next year ? Appreciate your views.

I *really* hope that the biturbo comes in - but as per my call with the Mumbai dealer manager, he stated that there was no chance we would get the biturbo (mentioned the new Fortuner) and no chance of a black interior. (again mentioned the Fortuner having this option)

I seriously *hate* a brown interior, so I'm not planning to buy an Endeavour at the present time, but I need a replacement for my 2015 Fortuner. Running the Safari Storme now, which is an amazing car, really, but only manual transmission.

I gather the new body style might be out in 2022, but who knows...

Oh! And the Sales Manager said that they sell *more* Endeavours than Toyota sells Fortuners!! Yeah, right!!

[Born 2 Be Wild]

Originally Posted by niruvrs9669

Question is whether it's worth pursuing this idea of going for this more punchy preowned Demo 3.2 L "vs" a frugal 2.0 L with better gear shifts and drive it in 'S' mode all the time ? Or is it worth waiting it out for the new Bi-Turbo later this year/next year ?


Appreciate your views.

In a nutshell the 3.2 is any day better over the 2.0 albeit if you can get your hands on an equisitely maintained vehicle, yes gear shifts are slicker on the 2.0 thanks to the the 10 speed a/t and on a stock 3.2 its a bit lethargic lower in the rev range but get the 3.2 remapped and boy o boy its a hoot to drive lower rev range lag is gone.

[niruvrs9669]

Originally Posted by Turbanator

Avoid Demo at all costs.

key to buying a pre-owned is patience. Regarding the wait for new Bi-Turbo, I expect, Ford to launch it sooner. You should also consider the new Fortuner unless you are absolutely sold on the Endeavour.

Thank you for the sound advice !

Will let go of the Demo 3.2 L and the new 2.0L. I'm not a fan of Fortuner, for its sheer volume on our roads. . I'd rather wait patiently for the Bi-Turbo. I quite like Ford's total silence about the new launch. Why do I get a feeling that they are just hoping to clear up the 2.0L stock before they announce the new launch.

[SuperFlyBoy]

Originally Posted by niruvrs9669

Thank you for the sound advice !

Will let go of the Demo 3.2 L and the new 2.0L. I'm not a fan of Fortuner, for its sheer volume on our roads. . I'd rather wait patiently for the Bi-Turbo. I quite like Ford's total silence about the new launch. Why do I get a feeling that they are just hoping to clear up the 2.0L stock before they announce the new launch.

Well, the dealer confirmed that the 2021 models would remain as-is, without the biturbo.

Hope that changes - where they introduce another variant!

[cool_dube]

Originally Posted by niruvrs9669

Two days ago, I test drove the new 2.0L at the Ford showroom. Figured that it comes with all the bells and whistles and an awesome ride quality, except for the engine which can't be driven in a regular 'D' mode.

I am in the same boat as you are! Just love the Endeavour for all that it offers (lovely interiors, awesome sound system, full-time 4wd, superb steering and handling, amazing ride, great headlights) as well as those butch, Yankee truck looks! It ticks all the right boxes for me, but one! The only flaw that I perceived in an otherwise perfect SUV is the engine under that hood - and it is a deal breaker for me. With all due credit to the lovely 10-speed gearbox that tries its level best to mask the small size of the engine, a 2 liter engine is simply too small for this behemoth! Ford has failed miserably here. I have gone for innumerable test drives of the Endeavour 2.0 over the last few months, hoping against hope that for once I will find the engine liveable but unfortunately, that has not been the case. Every test drive leaves me utterly frustrated - such a lovely SUV does not deserve that puny engine! But for that, I'd have picked it up in a jiffy. I tried the "S" mode as well, and yes, it is marginally better than the "D" mode but one can easily sense the strain on the engine every time that accelerator pedal is depressed. It does protest before giving in to your request. To add to that, the gearbox works overtime to keep the engine in its sweet torque band, which is quite late and narrow by big-SUV standards (2000-2500 rpm) - not only does this constant shifting get irritating on long drives but would also reduce the life of the gearbox, I reckon! While I have not had a chance to take it to a hilly terrain, my assessment of the engine tells me that it will struggle on steep inclines with the vehicle fully loaded. Moreover, engine braking is pretty much non-existent because of the small size of the engine and sheer momentum that the SUV carries. I tried engine braking by switching to "S" mode and downshifting to 3rd and 2nd gears at speeds of ~60 kmph - all that resulted in was loud protests from the engine but the speed was nowhere reduced as fast as it is supposed to. With this behavior, brake pads will wear out really fast.

In comparison, the archaic engine of my Pajero SFX makes a humble 80 kW (107 bhp) and 275 Nm of torque but never does it feel strained except at speeds over 120 kmph, due to sheer size. Moreover, it provides excellent engine-braking. At the end of the day - there is no replacement for displacement!

Originally Posted by niruvrs9669

Later in evening, I also test drove another preowned 2017 3.2L model with 45000 km mileage on it but felt like the auto transmission was struggling with shifts and there was significant noise. It wasn't fun to drive either.

I test drove one too but gave it up due to exactly the same reason - engine was too loud and the gearbox had its own mind. Moreover, the abysmally low FE was a deal-breaker as well.

Originally Posted by Turbanator

You should also consider the new Fortuner unless you are absolutely sold on the Endeavour.

I'd second that. While personally I find the Endeavour to be better than the Fortuner in all aspects other than the engine - looks, character, features, overall feel, I simply cannot live with an underpowered SUV, which to me, defeats the whole purpose of owning an SUV. An SUV for me is a vehicle that I can confidently drive to any corner of the country with full load of passengers and luggage, without the slightest doubt about its capability of conquering those steep inclines or taking on those hairpin bends. What's the point of spending 40+ big ones if I fall short of muscle when needed?! Also, the Fortuner facelift has narrowed the "gap" that existed between the two competitors on other fronts, to a large extent - it now comes with better ride, handling, sound system, etc. Net-net, the degree of compromise I had to make in choosing the Fortuner over the Endeavour has reduced to a great extent in the Fortuner facelift, as opposed to the pre-facelift model.

So, in all probability, the Fortuner it is for me, although I will continue to ogle at every Endeavour I come across That said, I'm yet to drive the facelift, so final decision will be made post that.

Originally Posted by niruvrs9669

I'd rather wait patiently for the Bi-Turbo.

Well, good luck with that. From what I hear, Ford plans to bring it only along with the next generation of the Endeavour. Secondly - and this is my personal opinion at the risk of sounding old-school - extracting more and more power from a relatively smaller engine would be detrimental to the longevity of the engine, all underlying tech notwithstanding.

All that said, your decision should also depend on your use-case. If primary usage is within city and occasional highway drives, Endeavour 2.0 is not a bad choice, given all that it offers at current price point. In fact, if you are not too particular about 4wd capabilities, the RWD variants of the Endeavour are absolute VFM propositions. The Endeavour 2.0 in its RWD guise is peppier and more sprightly compared to its 4WD counterpart, owing to lesser weight and lack of full-time 4WD mechanism. You might want to try that once.

All the best!

[Bibendum90949]

Originally Posted by cool_dube

Every test drive leaves me utterly frustrated - such a lovely SUV does not deserve that puny engine! But for that, I'd have picked it up in a jiffy.

Hello Rahul, Just keen to know if Ford's future in India isn't a cause of bother and did that cross your mind? Yes taking away that 3.2L was a big let down for enthusiasts. A close friend of mine has been contemplating Endeavour and in the same boat as you. He's actively looking at other options now.

Unless you're travelling with 7 and luggage, the 2.0 L would largely suffice for most buyers and only in the use cases you mentioned(driving it up the hills and stuff) it becomes a laggard. For a small family of 2 adults and kids it should be okay, I reckon.

[cool_dube]

Originally Posted by Bibendum90949

Hello Rahul, Just keen to know if Ford's future in India isn't a cause of bother and did that cross your mind?

Well, my current ride is a Mitsubishi - that should say it all
On a serious note, I don't think Ford will quit India just yet. They have been here far too long and invested far too much, to do that. Moreover, I really like Ford's engineering and design elements, especially the build, ride and handling part. Build elements on both these cars speak a lot too - take a close and detailed look at an Endeavour (preferably a new one at the showroom) followed immediately by a Fortuner, and you will know what I am talking about.

Originally Posted by Bibendum90949

Unless you're travelling with 7 and luggage, the 2.0 L would largely suffice for most buyers and only in the use cases you mentioned(driving it up the hills and stuff) it becomes a laggard. For a small family of 2 adults and kids it should be okay, I reckon.

Quoting from official TBHP review of Endeavour 2.0:

One line summary = The 2.0 engine is “adequate” and that’s it. As the Americans themselves say, “there is no replacement for displacement”

power is more than adequate and the Endeavour 2.0 will get you wherever you want to go. It’s just that the 3.2’s “fun / punch” is missing. This engine & gearbox combination performs best when driven with light to moderate accelerator inputs – it’s for sedate drivers.

It is more than adequate for intra-city and straightforward inter-city runs, no two thoughts about it. In fact, it is a great highway cruiser and can munch miles like anything, what with the engine ticking at a leisurely ~1300 rpm at 100 km/h in the 10th cog, thereby also providing good FE. Perfect vehicle for cross-country drives, if driven with a light foot. My apprehension is more to do with performance during demanding excursions like Spiti valley, North East, etc. So, as I said, depends a lot on one's use case. For "normal" usage, the Endeavour is a lovely SUV. Moreover, as noted above, if one is not too keen on 4wd capabilities, the RWD Endeavour is all the more value for money and comes with relatively better performance.

Hope this helps!

[niruvrs9669]

Originally Posted by cool_dube

I am in the same boat as you are! Just love the Endeavour for all that it offers. Every test drive leaves me utterly frustrated - such a lovely SUV does not deserve that puny engine! But for that, I'd have picked it up in a jiffy. I tried the "S" mode as well, and yes, it is marginally better than the "D" mode but one can easily sense the strain on the engine every time that accelerator pedal is depressed.

I test drove one too but gave it up due to exactly the same reason - engine was too loud and the gearbox had its own mind. Moreover, the abysmally low FE was a deal-breaker as well.

I'd second that. Net-net, the degree of compromise I had to make in choosing the Fortuner over the Endeavour has reduced to a great extent in the Fortuner facelift, as opposed to the pre-facelift model.

Well, good luck with that. From what I hear, Ford plans to bring it only along with the next generation of the Endeavour.

All that said, your decision should also depend on your use-case.
All the best!

Thanks Cool_dube !

The 'S' mode in 2.0 L seemed sufficient to me for the urban crawl. I've decided not to look out for pre-worshiped 3.2 Ls anymore. Fortuner was never on my mind but the new one does look good on paper.

One would have to jump into 70L+ bracket for the other refined 3.0 L, 6 cylinder Diesels from Merc/Audi/BMWs with higher maintenance costs.

For now, I'll extend the 6th year warranty on my X5 and wait for the next gen bi-turbo from Ford may be

Regarding my use case, frankly Honda CR-V is good enough for what I need in the City .

[cool_dube]

Originally Posted by niruvrs9669

Fortuner was never on my mind but the new one does look good on paper.

Is it only me or this red Fortuner (Australia, I guess) has a slightly different headlamp design?!

[Wanderers]

Any idea if this wiper nut cover cap is available for buying at Ford service center?


Not sure when I lost this. I tried to take out the other one, yes it comes off very easily.

[motomonk]

Looking to buy Endeavour 4x4 2.0, Bangalore Ford showroom seems to offer below insurance companies,
1. Liberty
2. Iffco Tokio
3. Royal Sunderam

I haven't heard of Liberty and Iffco before. Royal Sundaram seems to have more negative feedback online over claims. Can existing Ford endeavour owners please help in suggesting which company to opt for new car insurance?

Thanks in advance!

[anumod]

Originally Posted by motomonk

Looking to buy Endeavour 4x4 2.0, Bangalore Ford showroom seems to offer below insurance companies,
1. Liberty
2. Iffco Tokio
3. Royal Sunderam

I haven't heard of Liberty and Iffco before. Royal Sundaram seems to have more negative feedback online over claims. Can existing Ford endeavour owners please help in suggesting which company to opt for new car insurance?

Thanks in advance!

I have used all of the above on my Ford cars. I would rate Liberty ahead of others for overall value for money and hassle free claim procedures. Last year I got a very good deal on Liberty with unlimited number of zero dep claims. Seems like this year, it has increased a lot and then I went ahead with Bajaj Allianz .

[SuperFlyBoy]

Originally Posted by anumod

I have used all of the above on my Ford cars. I would rate Liberty ahead of others for overall value for money and hassle free claim procedures. Last year I got a very good deal on Liberty with unlimited number of zero dep claims. Seems like this year, it has increased a lot and then I went ahead with Bajaj Allianz .

So did you avail of a zero-depreciation (is that the same as Return To Invoice?) from Bajaj Allianz as well?