[drmohitg]

Originally Posted by phynix123

Although there may be six months interval for servicing , oil change is usually done once a year.

Originally Posted by TD_GHY

Our previous car, a Maruti, also used Mineral oil and oil change was required once a year, not 6 months. Looks more like a money making gimmick than based on sound engineering principles. Top up is fine, complete change in 6 months surely is far fetched. And binding it to warranty makes it a "cash cow".

Originally Posted by phynix123

That's a surprise considering its a petrol engine. It may actually be a money milking strategy as you mentioned.

It is indeed a money making strategy. The technicality that they play with here is that they enforce a 6 months/ 10k km interval. So by doing this they basically assume that you will be driving 10k kms in any span of 6 months and hence your car warrants a oil change every 10k kms, which is not wrong. But a very few people cover those kind of distances and the vast majority have not run even half of those 10k kms in 6 months. But the service centres make use of this loophole and insists on following the manual which very cleverly adds the words "whichever is earlier"at the end of this kms vs time duration debate. Hence a customer finds himself paying for oil and filter changes every 6 months even though his running doesn't call for the same.

And these are just basic service components. More agonizing is when you have crossed 3-4 years and your car has run around 30-40k kms ( assuming a 10k km annual running). But because they follow the 6 month interval according to them at the end of 4 years your car has technically covered 80k kms ( 8 "6 months" intervals x 10k kms for each). And they want to start conducting major services in your car with change of timing belts and everything. This is what I faced at Nissan and it left a very sour taste. The only saving grace for the customer, if you can call it that, is that by that time you are out of the warranty period and hence can refuse to this blatant extortion and stick to getting only the basic things needed. Ofcourse this calls for a good understanding of your cars servicing needs and the service manual. And any customer who trusts the after sales blindly would end up paying through the roof to get stuff done which was unwarranted to start with.

I would like to mention Toyota in this regard. For the Innova they also recommend a 6 monthly service but here the km range is also 5k kms and they call this service as a "check up" where they only check and top up fluids, do a car wash, check for alignment and balancing, and tend to any other customer specific issues with the car. All the regular servicing components are changed only at the proper yearly or 10k km service as applicable.

After my experience with Nissan and their 6 month/10k km service rule, I have made a mental note to myself to always check for this during my next car purchase and avoid car makers who resort to this practice.

[TD_GHY]

Originally Posted by mxh

You are welcome to change the oil whenever you want. Just don't expect warranty coverage on those parts unless you follow the mandated instructions. The same is true for any appliance, not just cars.

It amounts to blackmail doesn't it? Change the oil whether you need it or not, else we won't honour the warranty. What can a helpless customer do then. Change oil right?

I had plans to change it every year or 5000 kms whichever is earlier (which is optimal by the way), but since now I am under warranty for 4 years, I'll have no option but to change it every 6 months or 2500kms.

Just cause your car ran 8 years doesn't make it optimal.

Not just my car, look at other manufacturers too. Or simply browse in TBHP for owners who change it yearly, not semi-annually. Their cars are certainly not doing any bad than Honda cars.

I'm sorry, I'd prefer believing in the knowledge of one of the most respected and trusted car manufacturers than a random guy from the internet.

I did not ask you to mend your oil change behavior did I? I asked for sound scientific proof, which apparently I did not get, as expected. If Suzuki, Hyundai, Toyota, VW engines can handle oil changes > 6 months interval, Honda engineers then have a lot of catch up to do don't you think? Apparently, Honda engines are good and can certainly do one year changes. But that doesn't get their cash registers ringing.

The oil change is only around 1500 bucks in Honda; look at what the others like VW charge and ask yourself if 1500 bucks in 6 months - Rs 8/- per day is really worth your worry? Please read Anurags post above and decide. If I were the op, I'd go back and get that oil change done immediately

Oil change at Maruti is 1300 for a year. That comes out to be less than 4 rupees per day, but that is not the point. Even if it was 3000 per oil change, we will have to do it if necessary just like tyre changes, coolant refill and other things. Point was about "Is it really required". And if yes, why only Honda?

[Mortis]

When in doubt about basic maintenance schedules of fluids it is always best to follow the manual. A car may mention a yearly or 10000km oil change interval but there is a mention of driver the car in 'adverse' conditions with lots of traffic, hot dusty environment etc where the oil change interval in that case is 6months/5000km for the same car. The described conditions pretty much describe regular Indian driving conditions

[Flanker99]

Wow, that's some discussion about engine oil. But, to be very honest, I wouldn't worry about the iVTEC at all, irrespective of the frequency of the oil change. Rather I would be more worried about whether these present day Hondas, the Jazz and City to be very specific, will even manage to hold up together for as long as 10 years. Just look at the current generation models' threads in tBHP. The City has a separate thread just for the various niggles. The Jazz is no different. But I don't recall anyone complaining about the iVTEC and iDTEC, if I am not mistaken.

Just my opinion, but there are times I feel my dad's 3 year old Etios (diesel) is better built than my year old Jazz. It rattles, but it can also take more abuse (read potholes) than the Jazz. And I say 10 years because that's atleast how long our Omni and WagonR served us. Both were given plenty of TLC, especially the WagonR, and were seviced just once a year. Same is the case with the Etios. But it looks like the Jazz would be the spoilt child.

[DieselTorq]

Originally Posted by Mortis

A car may mention a yearly or 10000km oil change interval but there is a mention of driver the car in 'adverse' conditions with lots of traffic, hot dusty environment etc where the oil change interval in that case is 6months/5000km for the same car.

Mortis, Thanks for this info. Just for the benefit of me and our fellow bhpians could you please be more specific about the manufacturer you are referring to?

Originally Posted by Mortis

The described conditions pretty much describe regular Indian driving conditions

The b2b traffic and the dusty environment in which we drive our cars within city premises on working days absolutely falls under this category.

I agree with Dr.Mohit and hence I am made to think that Honda has taken this 'oil change act' as a money milking strategy. But per the reputation Honda has built all these years, I would like to hear that this is not their 'only' intention and there is more towards the health of the engine.

I also see a sense of eagerness in 'TD_GHY's' post to really know whether Honda is suggesting and insisting on Oil change once every 6 months as a proactive measure (since Honda assumes/d that our cars might be undergoing the typical extreme driving conditions regularly) than compared to other manufacturers or otherwise

Is there a better way to get this clarified officially from Honda? Should this query be posted at their FB page to know more on this?

[Mortis]

Ive seen it in the manual for the Chevrolet Beat which uses synthetic oil and wrt other manufacturers and car models I have seen mentions of it in various Oil change, oil type and review threads so I guess similar caveats exist for other cars as well.
Check your manual it might be mentioned in the fluids/maintenance section.

[morphique]

Guys,

I recently relocated from US to India, so missed the action for last 3 years.
I am now looking at buying a car with good torque (especially low-end) and decent power within 10L (petrol or diesel).
Took a test drive of Jazz Diesel and GT TSi and found both good but Jazz more practical considering the space it offers.
Now a bit worried about two things regarding Jazz:

- Engine: How is the Honda diesel engine doing? Any troubles or known issues so far?
- Diesel Car Resale Value: How is the market responding to the ban on diesel vehicles in Delhi etc. and the closing gap between petrol and diesel rates (and any other action I missed)?
Is it worth buying a diesel vehicle considering I will keep it for 5 years at least?

Will appreciate any inputs. Thanks.

[bblost]

I recently joined Honda for 'The Celebration Drive' @ Jaipur (25th and 26th of July, 2016).

I love hatchbacks. They are perfect for the Urban commuter with a small family. Take up less space, give great mileage and can be almost fun to drive.

Earlier this year, I got my hands on the Jazz during the https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/trave...ala-tanot.html (Honda Drive to Discover: To Jodhpur, Jaisalmer, Longewala and Tanot). Coincidentally, I was paired up with the same car this time as well. It has held up well considering that most media cars are not babied and loved like personal cars. The absence of creaks and rattles was duly noted.

The Celebration Drive was from Jaipur and to the historic Samode Palace.

After a quick lunch at the Jaipur Marriott, we were flagged off by Ms Anita Sharma [AVP - Corporate Communication, Honda Cars India].




With a distance of less than 60 kms, we simply relied on our GPS phones. The roads in this new part of Jaipur are really good. Unfortunately, the overall traffic discipline is lacking. One interesting observation was the use of helmets by both the rider and pillion on motorcycles. Most of the head gear was primitive, but it is a good sign of progress. A big round of applause to the Rajasthan Government!

We were following another car which entered the Jaipur Bus Rapid Transit Service (BRTS). There were no markings at the entry point, but we quickly realized the mistake. The exit was less than a few meters away. So we decided to continue only to be flagged down by the traffic police. They were firm yet friendly. We paid the fine and I was very impressed by the Police Officers.

Very soon, we hit the NH-52. However, my gps navigation device a.k.a. the mobile phone started to act funny. It asked me to turn into non-existent roads. The amiable driver followed my directions and very soon, we found ourselves on some rough surfaces. The Jazz was able to take the monster potholes without scraping its underbelly.

The event organizers had promised a fun evening. We arrived at the venue which was a large open field. There were a total of three events meant to showcase the urban advantages of the Jazz.

The first event was about the magic seats. You can read a lot more about them on the first page of this thread. In brief, you can fold the seats in multiple ways. This gives you a number of options when transporting things like bicycles, flower pots and just about anything. It can even become a comfortable bed.

Most teams managed to configure the seats in the recommended positions in less than 90 seconds.

The second event involved loading suitcases into the 354 liter boot.


The final event tested both the car and the driver. To simulate narrow road conditions, we were presented with an obstacle course. The challenge was to drive through the traffic cones without touching them. The car has a slightly raised seat and this allows the driver a good view of the outside. The rear view camera with its different view options also helps. Most of us managed to cross the rather complicated course without knocking the cones. This was no mean feat as the cones were kept really close to each other and we needed to reverse a couple of times to align the car.



We reached our hotel just as day light was fading. Walking into a shower of petals sure does make you feel like royalty.


Helping the look with a nice Rajasthani hat.


I decided to chill by the pool.


Soon, it was time for dinner and a dance performance by folk artists.


Woke up to the beautiful sound of birds singing. With very little time left in Samode, I decided to quickly check the place in the morning light. Its a beautiful palace with a lot of history behind it.









It also had these vintage beauties in perfect running order. They were all brought outside the garages and had their engines running. The sweet music from the Morgan is mesmerizing.

Morgan:


Chevrolet:


Morris Minor:


After a quick breakfast, I took to the wheel of my Jazz. I find it very ergonomically designed and everything is in the correct place. Except the over sensitive HVAC controls. Every time I try to change the audio settings, the fan speed would increase. It gets very irritating. With audio controls also present on the steering, I avoid going close to the ICE unless I have no choice.

The event for today was to drive on a Treasure Hunt. Our first clue led us to the Amir Place. Actually more like its parking lot where we received the next set of clues. Overall, we ended up going around the city of Jaipur.
The best part was the Lassi served in an earthen glass. I finished mine before my teammates had taken a single sip. It was that good...especially the layer of thick cream on top.

The last part of the hunt took us to a petrol pump. At the petrol pump, they took down the odometer reading and the amount of fuel we had used. My car achieved over 19 kmpl.

A leisurely lunch and a drop to the airport completed this edition of Honda's celebrations.

Disclaimer : Honda invited Team-BHP for this Drive. They covered all the expenses for this driving event.

[dieselOmaniac]

Dear morphique, I am using Jazz Diesel (V variant) since April this year and very happy about it. Most of us in this forum uses Petrol though - therefore you wont find any single ownership thread also for Jazz Diesel. This proves that Jazz Diesel not selling much anyway. Whatever be the case - I am quite satisfied with it and I will try to answer you.

Originally Posted by morphique

I am now looking at buying a car with good torque (especially low-end) and decent power within 10L (petrol or diesel).
Took a test drive of Jazz Diesel and GT TSi and found both good but Jazz more practical considering the space it offers.

You are absolutely spot-on morphique. Jazz(D) is having 200Nm and having more than enough BHP for your use. Engine is perfect for City commute, very good low-end torque requiring less number of gear shifts. If you take it on highway too - having a 6th gear will not disturb the FE figure in spite of cruising at 120!

Originally Posted by morphique

- Engine: How is the Honda diesel engine doing? Any troubles or known issues so far?

In 3.5 months of usage, I ready covered 8500 kms (my daily mileage is about 100), I haven't faced any. Engine is not as enthusiastic as GT Tsi and typically made for city commute. FE is simply superb, I am getting 20kmpl (as per MID its 21.5 but practical mileage is 20 I calculated by TFTF method)

Originally Posted by morphique

- Diesel Car Resale Value: How is the market responding to the ban on diesel vehicles in Delhi etc. and the closing gap between petrol and diesel rates (and any other action I missed)? Is it worth buying a diesel vehicle considering I will keep it for 5 years at least?

I really dont care as I am going to keep it for 5 years. What I wanted was a spacious hatchback which is fuel efficient & good looking & having decent torque & power plus reliable. Jazz ticks all the boxes!

Hope this helps. Let me know for an other doubts. Cheers!

[DieselTorq]

Originally Posted by morphique

Guys,
- Engine: How is the Honda diesel engine doing? Any troubles or known issues so far?

Hi Morphique, Mine is a diesel variant and is approx. 14k kms old and so far my car has underwent regular service/maintenance schedules only. As you have stated the car is powerful and No/little throttle input is needed to close the city traffic gaps . Normally just lifting the foot off the clutch is sufficient in flowing city traffic(3rd and 4th are my city favourites). I have driven the car in city traffic, National Highways,Rural Kerala roads, Munnar and Kodaikanal with full load(people + luggage). I have never pushed the car more than 120kmph not because the car isn't stable or is lacking in power etc but there was never a need. I am fully aware that there was more than sufficient power still available to extract even though the car was cruising at the said speed.

The car is fuel efficient as well. The notable downside of this iDtec engine according to T-Bhpians is the comparatively higher NVH character to that of elite i20s CRDI engine.To me the NVH is felt within the cabin only when AC is off + No Audio that too while driving out of my apartment or in quieter suburb streets. Once AC is ON and with minimal audio NVH is very minimal/noticeable. At busy city streets/main roads your would hardly be able to notice the NVH.As in all diesel vehicles, when revved hard during overtaking(downshifted) the engine noise is audible inside the cabin. Comparing to the benefits I reap out of JAZZ D to me the NVH is the least issue I am worried about.

I completed my 4th service(1st Paid service) this week and hereby attaching the same for the benefit of our Bhpians.

Jazz 1st Paid Service Bill.pdf

[varunswnt]

Does Jazz come with any security system other than engine immobilizer? I don't see any mention of buzzer or alarm when unlocking or something like that. Is there a way to activate buzzer?

What if someone tries to unlock doors without a key? Will it sound alarm?

[varunswnt]

Originally Posted by k.sumit

By the way guys, I posted a review of my headlight upgrade that may be of help to someone in deciding what to opt for. Below is the link:

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/modifi...ml#post3995569

Hi k.sumit,

Can you please share your experience during night drive in monsoon? This will really help to know better.

Thanks

[k.sumit]

Originally Posted by varunswnt

Hi k.sumit,

Can you please share your experience during night drive in monsoon? This will really help to know better.

Thanks

Hi Varun, apologies for the late response since I was super occupied last week. While driving in rain, they are as good as using a 55/60 halogen and being close to 5000-5500k doesn't help either. On a dry day, they are superb and provide good illumination. When I say "Superb", I mean they are excellent for a plug and play option in case you wish to go that way; they wont stand a chance against a good projector/hid retrofit. By the way, I still find the pricing on the higher side, 10.5k is steep.

I sold off my all new Honda Jazz last week and the above observation is the best I can share after using them for 4+ months.

[varunswnt]

Went to Bhimashankar and Ozar this sunday along with family.

I took Chakan-Rajgurunagar-Wada-Bhimashankar route, narrow roads with bad stretches in between especially on last stretch in ghat region before it merges to Manchar-Bhimashankar road. After that, the road condition deteriorates with every passing kilometer. It is a real test of car and tyres. Bhimashankar is plastic free region and you will see people selling plastic sheets as cover from rains.

Then I took Bhimshankar-Manchar highway and before Manchar there is a road leading to Shivneri Fort, with help of some locals reached Ozar. Road is narrow and potholed on most of the stretches. This worsens even further when there are few kms to reach Ozar.

On return journey, I took Ozar-Narayangaon-Manchar-Rajgurunagar-Chakan route, road widening works has made roads dismal at many places. There is no bypass to any of the towns and it leads to maddening/chaotic traffic in passing these towns.

Now to the main point i.e. Jazz, after going through all the abuse, I was little skeptical whether it would be able to hold properly. Jazz created a lot of noise whenever it went through rough roads. I was really worried with all those noises. So far everything remains silent, very faint rattle is audible from dashboard when everything is switched off and you hear it with utmost concentration and that too on rough road, on smooth surface its silent. Ride was mostly comfortable with little vertical movement but the noises on rough road from underbody, rear parcel tray, hatch and dashboard (glovebox area and 12v socket area) were a bit discomforting. I think they could have been muted to some extent by HONDA. A-pillar creates a blindspot, so need to remain watchful on those curvy narrow countryside roads.

Originally Posted by k.sumit

I sold off my all new Honda Jazz last week and the above observation is the best I can share after using them for 4+ months.

What's your new toy now? Any particular reason for selling Jazz, you may avoid telling it if it's personal stuff.

[morphique]

Can someone please post a picture of the exact location under the hood where I could look for the VIN during the PDI for my new Jazz before registration?
If a picture is not possible, please try to describe it.
Thanks!