[sidzzone]

Got to appreciate Honda for the development of their diesel engine. Although the two engines cannot be compared, Honda took the market very seriously. It really seems to me that MSIL is taking their customers for granted by releasing this engine for a car.

The car's sound outside matters - if it sounds like an amplified Nano's engine (on a car that is almost at the price of a Ritz!), then most people will be put off by it. Although they've done a good job of curbing the NVH on the inside, it will still be a turn off for most people.

[johannskaria]

Interesting conclusion!

https://youtu.be/tn0ju3U-TIQ

[Arjun Reddy]

Did I read the ex showroom price as 5.72 lakhs for the Celerio in the video above. Vow. Check out the price of the Punto Dynamic MJD Active from carwale. It says an average ex showroom price is 5.95 lakhs. The rest I leave to imagination.

[Live To Jive]

Originally Posted by GTO

[i][center]This isn't only Maruti's first diesel engine, but even parent Suzuki's. The Japanese car maker has never developed a diesel engine till date. Honestly, I find that disappointing. Maruti commands half the market in India, selling a whopping 100,000 cars each month. I can't think of any other manufacturer in such a dominant position that has outsourced its diesel engine requirements for so long. As we know, Maruti's diesel cars are powered by the Fiat 1.3L MJD motor.

Maruti & its suppliers have invested Rs. 900 crore into the DDiS 125, a small 793 cc 2-cylinder diesel.

This is a surprise. Firstly 2 cylinder and secondly not based on the 1.3 DDiS. The Celerio Petrol is the Swift/Ritz K series with 1 cylinder chopped off. They coulkd have done same with the 1.3 DDiS.

This is the first two-cylinder diesel passenger car in India.

Though the Tata Magic is not a car, I think it uses a 2 cylinder Diesel.

This 0.8L could be the daddy of an upcoming family of diesels. While Maruti denies it, rumour mills insist that 1.2L (same engine with one more cylinder) and 1.6L (with double the cylinders) versions are in the pipeline.

I wonder if they will be as refined as the current diesel.

All said and done, I think this car will do well. Maruti knows the Indian mentality well. The Wagon R with this engine will be a something that may do well too.

[Ragavsr]

Originally Posted by Arjun Reddy

Did I read the ex showroom price as 5.72 lakhs for the Celerio in the video above. Vow. Check out the price of the Punto Dynamic MJD Active from carwale. It says an average ex showroom price is 5.95 lakhs. The rest I leave to imagination.

Forget the ex-showroom price, the Punto has 60, 000 cash discount + free insurance if you are buying now and bargain hard. It's a no brainer to go for the Punto as it's a couple of segments above.

[FINTAIL]

Originally Posted by Live To Jive

with 1 cylinder chopped off. They coulkd have done same with the 1.3 DDiS.

Several people I know have been asking the same question.

Why didn't Maruti chop off a cylinder off the FIAT 1.3 MJD / MS DDiS 200 and make an economical three cylinder diesel?

Why this twin cylinder contraption?

______________

The reason being- according to the license agreement w.r.t the engine sharing deal (1.3 / 1.6 MJD) - Maruti can only tune the engine for it's requirements.

Maruti Suzuki cannot use the engine for further development purposes or create a new engine ''inspired'' by the FIAT 1.3 MultiJet.

Incidentally, Tata Motors is well known for adapting Mercedes Benz engines for commercial and private vehicle applications. The 2.2 VTT Dicor used in the Safari is actually an adaptation of the Mercedes Benz OM611.

_______________

MSIL could've made a smoother, and a three cylinder diesel if possible. However, cost cutting concerns (and lacklustre attitude) is responsible for this two cylinder contraption being designed in the first place.

Way to go, Maruti.

[johannskaria]

So have been reading through the TBhp thread and thought why not add a long term test vehicle to our garage to know the truth !

Hence the latest member Celerio DDiS.
Variant :- VDi
Color :- Blazing Red
Dealer : Hercules Automobiles , Trivandrum

[ssambyal1980]

Again a very good review, wherein each and every aspect about the vehicle was discussed. Was too excited when came to know about the launch of Celerio Diesel but after going through the review, the opinion about the car stands changed, albeit towards the negative side.

The most irksome thing about Celerio Diesel is the sound of its engine, which is quite unpleasant and it absolutely doesn't gel at all with the overall decent looks and design of Celerio. Such high NVH levels will definitely going to be a big turn off for the prospective buyers, refraining them from taking a final purchase call. Apart from that, it's being overpriced might prove to be the final nail in the coffin, which may dent the overall image of brand Celerio.

[johannskaria]

Interesting note on Celerio Diesel!

https://youtu.be/iDqDuhCs41E

[S2!!!]

At the time of its introduction, company expected 20-30% of Celerio customers to opt for the diesel. However, the percentage seems much lower, with the petrol and the AMT versions still forming the majority chunk of the Celerio sales. Being Maruti's and even Suzuki's first attempt at a diesel engine, the response received from the market can be best termed as lukewarm.

Link to news article

[i74js]

MSIL is trying to make use of the established DDIS badge (which is essentially the FIAT 1248 cc MJD) on a product that has been developed in-house. With due respect to MSIL efforts; this can be termed as over leveraging the DDIS branding, which is unethical as the engine under the hood is not the tested FIAT motor which is both frugal and reliable.

- The so called DDIS 125 is not a well established motor as compared to other petrol motors developed by Suzuki (essentially the K series engines)
- The NVH levels and in-cabin refinement is poor even by Maruti standards (even the sales advisors at their dealerships are accepting it)
- The price premium from a leveraged badge is too high and corrections are inevitable (MSIL has started with similar strategy for the S-Cross DDIS 320 - the FIAT 1.6 MJD and benefits have been extended ahead of festive season)

They can try new combinations like making the 2 pot motor available in Alto etc, but the kind of success (the benchmark of MSIL with small cars) expected by MSIL is not possible with this engine.

More so,
1. The petrol vs diesel milage gap cannot justify a premium of 80k which MSIL has asked for their diesel motor.
2. Celerio doesn't command a great resale (compared to other models) and thus buyers are equally cautious with investment in a diesel mill.

On the whole, MSIL will have to do something different to propel their diesel mill to the masses.

[longhorn]

Maruti has completely lost the plot here. You don't need a Yale degree to know that this product would be dead on arrival. It just shows how disconnected the product team is from the market. This engine is suitable ONLY for the Alto 800. It's just plain common sense. It's hard to believe that they expect people to pay close to 6 lakhs for a car powered by a two cylinder diesel engine with hardly any power to speak of. Hope that have learned their lesson.

[vibbs]

You come up with an Auto rickshaw sounding engine having just 2 cylinders and price it at a premium of 80K over the petrol variants. On top of it you expect it to be a runaway success? People are buying your S Cross, which means the market has started maturing. Such half baked products like this diesel will no longer sell in India.

Originally Posted by i74js

MSIL is trying to make use of the established DDIS badge (which is essentially the FIAT 1248 cc MJD) on a product that has been developed in-house. With due respect to MSIL efforts; this can be termed as over leveraging the DDIS branding, which is unethical as the engine under the hood is not the tested FIAT motor which is both frugal and reliable.

Off topic. How is this unethical? DDIS is a Maruti specific Nomenclature and has nothing to do with Fiat. Just that under this name, Maruti chose to first use MJD. They may or may not decide to use the same brand for all their diesel engines in future in the Indian market.

It just denotes a Diesel engine in a Maruti car. Outside of that it has no meaning. It can be a fiat source engine or any other. All the same as long as it is a Maruti car IMO.

[hybridpetrol]

Few points to note, if they have plan to introduce the same DDiS 125 into Alto:
a) Introduce the Alto 800 Diesel, less than Alto K10 price point. Considering 2 cylinder motor, it seriously does not deserve any premium. 2.9L - 3.75L ex-showroom should be the right price band. At this price point there will be takers for this car, considering similar features of Alto 800 petrol.
b) Remove the 2 cylinder engine from Celerio, and introduce a higher version into Celerio - may be the new 1.2L engine, if already developed, or at least introduce the 1.3L MJD from Fiat - at the same price point of current Celerio Diesel. Selling the underpowered engine on 6 lakh rupee car seems taking the buyers for a ride. For the customers who already bought the 2 cylinder engine for this price can be offered with some 5 year maintenance packages contract.
c) Celerio has started selling in some good numbers for Petrol AMT. Now introduce the Diesel AMT. If so, Celerio will be the cheapest Diesel AMT on offer.
d) Stop using Celerio as a launch pad for any technology that is actually meant for Alto, Omni and the like. Give us something unique. Test Celerio with technologies that you would like to launch in B2 segment and above, not what you want to launch in Alto 3 months later.

[i74js]

Originally Posted by vibbs

Off topic. How is this unethical? DDIS is a Maruti specific Nomenclature and has nothing to do with Fiat. Just that under this name, Maruti chose to first use MJD. They may or may not decide to use the same brand for all their diesel engines in future in the Indian market.

It just denotes a Diesel engine in a Maruti car. Outside of that it has no meaning. It can be a fiat source engine or any other. All the same as long as it is a Maruti car IMO.

No it is not.

1. MSIL is not the end user of the product instead its a licensee of technology which is producing an end product based on sourced technology. The technology and the branding used to sell that product is therefore protected through indemnity (this is a success case, if MJD was a failure case, MSIL would have taken Fiat to international courts for supply of poor technology weather or not it was sold as MJD or DDIS by Maruti)

2. Fiat has not objected to it because of the long standing relationship and good business that they have got from Suzuki both for 1.3 and the recent 1.6 engines

3. Almost every DDIS buyer knows what is under the hood, even MSIL sales representatives say it openly that these are Fiat engines, though to safeguard MSIL, they never forget to mention that MSIL is manufacturing these engines as part of technology collaboration. The traditional national engine known to the market is Fiat MJD - you may call it with whatever name.

The technology contracts are different than the run of the mill procurement and branding contracts (say a company sources cardamom from 10 vendors and sells it as MDH; MSIL writing DDIS on MJD based machines and making use of the same badge on in-house product is clearly leveraging something which has been established as a brand due to some other technology / technology provider and thus falls under unethical business practices) - Please note there is a difference between unethical and corrupt and I am not calling MSIL as a corrupt business player.

This is unethical towards their end consumer who expect that a DDIS 125 is the same engine what they get in Swift - just that it is smaller in size, whereas it is clearly not, as the case in point.

Also just before responding to your post, I called up a Maruti dealer in Delhi and checked with him on DDIS 125 and I quote "Sir it is same engine but of less BHP for Celerio". You may please have it checked at your local dealer. If you get similar response, please decide if this can be called as ethical.