[extreme_torque]

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

The Malayalam newspapers carry a half a page ad for 'India's first multi drive car'. Bookings are open.

However, my father passed me the paper clipping with a comment that the new Indica is here. He is not aware of the changes in the bolt. For him- it's an Indica.

I think TATA made a blunder keeping the side profile virtually unchanged from the Vista. This will turn out to be its biggest weakness.

My father mistook a Jetta for an Audi. Now shall we start criticizing Audi just because it resembles Jetta. The point is Audi and the new Bolt are good looking cars in their own right and that is enough. Why are we trying to find something that isn't there and raising it as a concern?

[itsashishsharma]

Originally Posted by extreme_torque

My father mistook a Jetta for an Audi. Now shall we start criticizing Audi just because it resembles Jetta. The point is Audi and the new Bolt are good looking cars in their own right and that is enough. Why are we trying to find something that isn't there and raising it as a concern?

Oh sir, I couldn't come up with a better example. Bolt is going to be best in the segment, as the Zest already is. Be it interiors, fit and finish, exteriors, paint quality, engines, ride or handling, everything is just so right. It is best in segment in most of these areas, proof is that we all are comparing interior quality with Hyundais and handling with Swift. My friend who got his Zest RT XMS delivered yesterday doesn't miss a thing of his ex car, an i20 1.2 Sportz, which had the best interiors and equipment list this side of 10L.

[nurni76]

Happened to see the ad shoot for Tata Bolt. Seems like the launch is still a few weeks away. It happened in Bangalore Orion mall.

[swiftnfurious]

Originally Posted by narayan

As such the side profile looking the same doesn't matter much. Hasn't the Swift's side profile pretty much been the same all along ? Don't the masses favour it ? ...

Very wrong comparo. Swift was a super duper hit and it was a "safer' option to retain the same silhoutte than trying something very new. Same with Scorpio too.

On the other hand, we are talking about a product (Vista) which had a prefix which a lot of people believe was the first & foremost reason for killing it. Though some of us do NOT mind the similarity in the name or shape of the car, there are a whole lot (who unfortunately outweighs us) who will NOT even bother to even check out this product, just because of the similarity. Only those who bother to check this product once will give it another stare!

[shashi63]

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

The Malayalam newspapers carry a half a page ad for 'India's first multi drive car'. Bookings are open.

However, my father passed me the paper clipping with a comment that the new Indica is here. He is not aware of the changes in the bolt. For him- it's an Indica.

I think TATA made a blunder keeping the side profile virtually unchanged from the Vista. This will turn out to be its biggest weakness.

Nothing against your observation or your Dad's. Each to his own view and opinion. I would be brave to hazard a guess that you don't own a Tata vehicle. Get inside the Bolt, see the product, keep an open mind and evaluate it with one of it's class and then take a paper and pen and compare the product with its competitors and you will see that the Bolt offers much much more than any of its competitors! Don't go and deride a product before you actually see the product!

Originally Posted by rsquared

Folks, I just checked out the Bolt on display in my local town, Thalassery. The adviser said that the pricing "would mostly" start at 3.94 for the base petrol and a approx a lakh extra for the base diesel. This seems to be a terrific price considering the car. He sounded quite confident. Here is to hoping he is right.

I got a figure which was more or less the same during my Test drive at Trivandrum. I would guess Tata would introduce at 3.75 base version.

Originally Posted by gauravdgr8

Checked out the car today in person. A red and a white. White looked stunning. Awesome build quality, door close with a good small thud and the boot is not really much compromised vs the vista.

Overall a good vfm hatch.

The paint job so good that it really stands out. I am not sure if any car in its class (read competition) has a such a finish!

Originally Posted by theexperthand

Bro, first - no sir please

Well, Rohan, Noopster and now you have said what you feel by reading it, I stated what I felt by reading it. Can we please leave it at that?

I have checked Bolt, Liva, new swift, i10 grand, elite i20, new punto and figo and for me personally, the fit and finish of Bolt is up to the mark when compared with the competition ( I am NOT saying bolt is the segment best, but what I am saying is Bolt certainly feels like it belongs to the same class - in certain cases a class higher). So, this was the base of my comment.

Let us respectfully agree to disagree about the percentage of improvement - whether it is 70/100 from 35/100 or 90/100 from 35/100.



The last part of your post exactly sums up what I want to say about my post also

--Anoop

I would say that when compared to it's class vs competition the Bolt offers more and is by far the best car in its class by years! The others will now play catch up and start offering what the Bolt offers. This itself will vindicate Tata's offering. Those who have this snob philosophy and want a "gora ka car" mindset will be the ones missing a honest car from a honest manufacturer!

[drmohitg]

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

However, my father passed me the paper clipping with a comment that the new Indica is here. He is not aware of the changes in the bolt. For him- it's an Indica.

I think TATA made a blunder keeping the side profile virtually unchanged from the Vista. This will turn out to be its biggest weakness.

Originally Posted by extreme_torque

My father mistook a Jetta for an Audi. Now shall we start criticizing Audi just because it resembles Jetta. The point is Audi and the new Bolt are good looking cars in their own right and that is enough. Why are we trying to find something that isn't there and raising it as a concern?

I would tend to agree with Crazy Driver here. This can be an issue with many car buyers. The other day me and my friends were going out for dinner and we came across a brand new Zest. Infact it grabbed our attention due to its rear tail lights which for the record look absolutely fabulous in the night and I can even dare to say that they look the best even when compared to the cars from 2 segments above.

But as soon as we reached the front end, all 3 of them were quick to remark that the front resembles the same old Indigo/Indica and the suddenly the design didn't look that appealing now to them.

Indica has been long associated with everything that was wrong with Tata when it comes to built quality and iffy after sales. Also there might be a slight issue of the Taxi Image and the fact that it has been in existence since eternity now. What Tata should have done was to give it a more, slightly different, design from the usual Tata products just to market it as an all new car. They have surely managed to make a very very competitive product but the resemblance to the past in there case may not be an excellent idea.

Mistaking a Jetta for an Audi is definitely something that the Jetta owner would love but the Audi owner would despise. It is just a matter of outlook. But at the end of the day both cars have a lot of aspirational value, something that cannot be said about the name Indica.

[ajay_satpute]

I saw a brand new sparkling greyish blue BOLT at Pandit Auto showroom on Law College road today morning.

Standing next to a white Vista, the Bolt did not look like a modded or face-lifted Vista. It looked much better and had a very good stance. For a casual looker, it does resemble the Elite-i20 due to the blackened C pillar.

[narayan]

Originally Posted by itsashishsharma

Also, new Swift looking similar to Old shape Swift is not an issue as the old one was a sales winner.

Agree with you which is why I said the below.

Originally Posted by narayan

Key is pricing - to bring the masses back into the showroon. After that its upto to adept salesman ship to get the walk ins converted to sales and for that the Bolt has a few things going for it. Hope they throw in the 333 offer at launch and bring in a good pricing in the range of 3.7-4.5 for Revotron and 4.2-5.5L for the QJD. Tough ask but I doubt they have choice.

Originally Posted by swiftnfurious

Very wrong comparo. Swift was a super duper hit
On the other hand, we are talking about a product (Vista) which had a prefix which a lot of people believe was the first & foremost reason for killing it. Only those who bother to check this product once will give it another stare!

Well put which is why I said the below

Originally Posted by narayan

Key is pricing - to bring the masses back into the showroon. After that its upto to adept salesman ship to get the walk ins converted to sales and for that the Bolt has a few things going for it. Hope they throw in the 333 offer at launch and bring in a good pricing in the range of 3.7-4.5 for Revotron and 4.2-5.5L for the QJD. Tough ask but I doubt they have choice.

To summarise, the Vista/Bolt is no Swift to get away easily with that "evolved look theory". It has to try harder to get the prospective customer's attention despite all the features it might have. In the current market with the perception Tata motors carries, the ONLY way to get footfalls in the showrooms is with a killer pricing.

Else Tata Motors will at best end up selling around 2k-3k per month.

Having said that, people like me will only buy a Bolt if we are in the market for a hatch

[extreme_torque]

Originally Posted by drmohitg

I would tend to agree with Crazy Driver here. This can be an issue with many car buyers. The other day me and my friends were going out for dinner and we came across a brand new Zest. Infact it grabbed our attention due to its rear tail lights which for the record look absolutely fabulous in the night and I can even dare to say that they look the best even when compared to the cars from 2 segments above.

But as soon as we reached the front end, all 3 of them were quick to remark that the front resembles the same old Indigo/Indica and the suddenly the design didn't look that appealing now to them.

Indica has been long associated with everything that was wrong with Tata when it comes to built quality and iffy after sales. Also there might be a slight issue of the Taxi Image and the fact that it has been in existence since eternity now. What Tata should have done was to give it a more, slightly different, design from the usual Tata products just to market it as an all new car. They have surely managed to make a very very competitive product but the resemblance to the past in there case may not be an excellent idea.

Mistaking a Jetta for an Audi is definitely something that the Jetta owner would love but the Audi owner would despise. It is just a matter of outlook. But at the end of the day both cars have a lot of aspirational value, something that cannot be said about the name Indica.

Not one body panel on the new Bolt is the same as the Vista apart from the roofline. I wonder if that is enough for a casual eye to mistake it for an updated Vista because I know my father or my wife would not. Even if you do, that can be an observation but not a critique as Bolt is an almost brand new car which shares little with the outgoing Vista, which in itself is not a bad car per se.

[safari_lover]

When the 'Indica Vista' was launched, it was the 'Indica' moniker which was the culprit, we said. When they removed and began calling it Vista, it was the Christmas tree tail lamps that were stopping it from selling, we declared. And now, they've changed both the name and tail lamps and added many more things. But wait, doesn't it look the same as the Vista, which did not sell mainly because it had the 'Indica' moniker and the Christmas tree tail lamps?

I think, the Bolt stands a decent chance to be a success. Now, when would you call it a success? An average sale of 5K units per month should be a good starting point, IMO. I know it's way below the segment leader. But then, Rome cannot be built overnight

[madhu33]

Originally Posted by safari_lover

An average sale of 5K units per month should be a good starting point, IMO. I know it's way below the segment leader. But then, Rome cannot be built overnight

Exactly , Tata cannot build a Rome overnight.
They have to keep churning out good new cars to the market one after the another.
Perception will change after 3-4-5 new cars int he market.
Currently we can say that it has just started with the Zest and the Bolt.
(Although personally even a storme makes me go down on a knee)

Bolt to me looked better than a swift on the exteriors, interiors, stance , much better ride and decent handling and acceleration.
A lot of people say swift handles so well.
I have driven a swift for3 1/2 years .
Allthough the wheel base is such that all the 4 wheels are placed on the 4 corners of the swift aiding its handling
but that thing braked so nervous.
Was always skeptical to do higher than average speeds in the swift.
Whereas with all the newer Tata cars the brakes are so damn confidence inspiring.

All this said, I feel expecting a 5000 number per month for the bolt will be far fetched.
IMO , it will be around 3-4k units.

[dheepak10]

Took a test drive of the Bolt Petrol at Tejaswi Motors in hitec city.

Amazed at the suspension on the car - it was a pleasure to drive on bad roads.
Steering was not too light but adequately weighed that you dont feel like controlling a car using joystick.

The clutch on the petrol version was a pleasure, it had minimum travel and was light enough to ensure that not much strain is there during traffic.

I was pretty comfortable with the 'drivability' on the car right from start.

Boot space is limited, but then I own an A-star so it is ample in my view .

My wife who was never letting me think of another car, said that we could probably save up and buy a Bolt, after the test drive.

[dheepak10]

I had a discussion on the pricing with the Salesperson as well.

Though they did not have any information on the pricing on the various versions, I could gather info that the ex-showroom price for the XE version (petrol) in Hyderabad is expected to be around 4.2 lakhs.

Basing my calculation on that info, I expect XMS version to be priced around 5.0 or 5.1 lakhs (ex-showroom), which will work out to be 5.6 or 5.7 lakhs on road and the XT version is expected to be around 6.25 lakhs on road. Sounds sweet!

As of now the showroom did not have info on whether an AMT version would be available at the launch on Jan 22 and whether it would be a petrol variant or diesel variant.

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by extreme_torque

My father mistook a Jetta for an Audi. Now shall we start criticizing Audi just because it resembles Jetta. The point is Audi and the new Bolt are good looking cars in their own right and that is enough. Why are we trying to find something that isn't there and raising it as a concern?

Because I believe it will be a point of concern. When you ensure the product is ALL NEW, why leave a striking resemblance to the old one? This strategy failed many times for TATA - with the Indica Vista at first, Storme later and I believe the bolt is next in line. It might still sell decently, but i think it wont get the success it deserves thanks to TATA dragging its past along.

And for your example - A Jetta is intentionally made to resemble the previous generation Audi. And a Superb is made to resemble the previous generation Jetta. The point is that the cars are made to resemble something that tends to give it a premium feel or connect with the customers.

TATAs dont achieve either with the Vista, which is not considered a successful car by many!

Originally Posted by shashi63

Nothing against your observation or your Dad's. Each to his own view and opinion. I would be brave to hazard a guess that you don't own a Tata vehicle.

Don't go and deride a product before you actually see the product!

I really don't understand the connection between owning a vehicle and commenting on the looks of a product!

And where did I 'deride' the vehicle? All i mentioned is that - TATAs have left the entire side profile identical to the Vista, and this will prove to be a major blunder. I haven't derided any of the strong points of the car. I am only pointing out what I feel is a major weakness.

Originally Posted by extreme_torque

Not one body panel on the new Bolt is the same as the Vista apart from the roofline. I wonder if that is enough for a casual eye to mistake it for an updated Vista because I know my father or my wife would not. Even if you do, that can be an observation but not a critique as Bolt is an almost brand new car which shares little with the outgoing Vista, which in itself is not a bad car per se.

1. Our official review itself comments that the car looks like an evolution of the Indica Vista to the casual observer.

2. Vista might not have been a bad car, but it never set the sales charts on fire, nor captured the imagination of the target markets.

3. TATAs made a big mistake with the Vista when they launched such a capable car with looks that resemble its predecessor. They slowly rectified this mistake by correcting the name to Vista (From Indica Vista) and then the next refresh added a black applique at the rear to break that family look that was there ever since the Indica days.

4. With the Bolt - they tried to break that design mould even more by introducing all new rear end design, front end design etc. But the attempt on the side remains rather half-hearted with only a black vinyl on the C-pillar to somewhat try to remind the customer that its a new car.

In my opinion - this will prove to be its biggest weakness. You can always disagree, but then - the real picture will be revealed only when the various ownership reports come out.

[extreme_torque]

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

Because I believe it will be a point of concern. When you ensure the product is ALL NEW, why leave a striking resemblance to the old one? This strategy failed many times for TATA - with the Indica Vista at first, Storme later and I believe the bolt is next in line. It might still sell decently, but i think it wont get the success it deserves thanks to TATA dragging its past along.

That is because it is not an all new product and for sure will be priced as such. It shares its platform with the Vista and that is where the similarities end. Indica Vista was launched in 2009 and it sold well for the initial few years. If you want to check, see the sales data for the period 2009 to 2012. It is only the last couple of years that Tata's strategy has started to fail. Long product cycles, new very good launches by the competitors and horror stories of previous owners with the brand is what is their failing even now when the products themselves have improved considerably.
Considering the volumes they are doing now and the market sentiment, even if they manage to arrest the slide, it will be considered a reasonable success.

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

And for your example - A Jetta is intentionally made to resemble the previous generation Audi. And a Superb is made to resemble the previous generation Jetta. The point is that the cars are made to resemble something that tends to give it a premium feel or connect with the customers.

And while Audi is doing decent volumes, the Jetta still isn't a success.

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

TATAs dont achieve either with the Vista, which is not considered a successful car by many!

Vista is not considered a failure either. The taxi image and relatively minor updates to car which wasn't a looker to start with, has been its falling. They are not advertising the Bolt as another version of Indica Vista and mass market would not know that either. A little resemblance between the cars of the same manufacturer is true for almost all brands now that are adopting a family look.

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

And where did I 'deride' the vehicle? All i mentioned is that - TATAs have left the entire side profile identical to the Vista, and this will prove to be a major blunder. I haven't derided any of the strong points of the car. I am only pointing out what I feel is a major weakness.

You could not more wrong. The entire side profile may have the same silhouette, but everything else is different. The lines and the creases on the side, even the wheels fill up the arches better.

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

1. Our official review itself comments that the car looks like an evolution of the Indica Vista to the casual observer.

We know our cars. That is not true for the mass market.

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

3. TATAs made a big mistake with the Vista when they launched such a capable car with looks that resemble its predecessor. They slowly rectified this mistake by correcting the name to Vista (From Indica Vista) and then the next refresh added a black applique at the rear to break that family look that was there ever since the Indica days.

And they know their mistake. Bolt is the best in-house design effort from Tata in a long long time.

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

4. With the Bolt - they tried to break that design mould even more by introducing all new rear end design, front end design etc. But the attempt on the side remains rather half-hearted with only a black vinyl on the C-pillar to somewhat try to remind the customer that its a new car.

Keep in mind the costs of developing a brand new car and the time to market. I do not think that it would have been a good strategy for Tata to have made a brand new car from grounds up, investing significant capital in the project as a result, given the brand recognition is at an all time low as far as passenger car market is concerned. Time to market is a huge factor as well. They have still invested a lot in the design and development but not as much as they would have to, for a brand new car. Even moderate success will give them enough impetus to carry on working on other brand new models that are currently under development. Failure of a brand new car would have hurt them most and they know it all too well after the debacle with Aria. Changing perception of the market is a tall ask and just launching all new models is a poor strategy. Ask Fiat.

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

In my opinion - this will prove to be its biggest weakness. You can always disagree, but then - the real picture will be revealed only when the various ownership reports come out.

I am wondering on what basis do you say this. Do you have a sales number in mind for it to be termed either as a success or a failure? Do you know what numbers Tata is targeting which would make them happy?