[timuseravan]

Originally Posted by mohansrides

Hello Gents & Ladies,

I realize that this post may pertain to some specific thread in the "advise" section. Believe me. I spent some time looking for an appropriate thread there and couldn't find it. Hence I am writing here.

The thing is that I have a bad case of the woozies for the current Mahindra Scorpio and after a lot of heartache, decided to turn to this community of drivers.

Here are the facts:

1.) We have a Ritz at home that does admirably well. I really like the car and will not be selling it. Also the Mrs. just got her license and she will definitely be using it to putter around town on errands.

2.) Although the plan is for the wife to drive the Ritz almost exclusively, the situation hasn't yet come to pass. Her work-from-home arrangement and our toddler keep her at home most of the time. I am the one driving the car for the most part. So, at this present time, I don't really need a 2nd car. But, once the kid starts school and other activities, I imagine that her usage of the car will increase.

3.) Monthly mileage for the both of us is roughly 700 kms max. I know that this is way below the optimum range for a diesel car.

4.) Although I have bought ONLY the cars that I have liked, I have always bought them used. So, in some sense, I am the sensible one in the family. This is what makes this situation quite tough. I WANT that S10 quite badly.

5a.) The sensible side of me says that 16 lac price tag for the S10 is quite steep for us. We could probably afford the EMIs. But, it would definitely lock up cashflow from other uses during the month.

5b.) I am also worried about the future of a diesel considering the ban in Delhi. It may be a matter of time before similar legislation is rolled out nationwide.

6.) On the other hand, there is a voice in my head that won't shut up about the fact that this may be my last and only chance to buy something new that I really like. Once the kid's academics begin, I imagine that we will have no room for any discretionary expenses for the next 2 decades at least.

With these points in mind, I would greatly appreciate hearing from this group of erudite members. I am not necessarily looking for someone to push me over the edge to a buying decision. Actually, I would actively encourage the conservative voices to talk me off the ledge. The thing is that I just want to hear your thoughts - yay or nay or even just some additional points to ponder as food for thought. I am sure that plenty of us have found ourselves in this position, and I am curious as to how the situation played out in those cases.

As always, all of you have my deepest gratitude.

P. S.

Two other minor points...

7.) Both my parents and in-laws spend considerable time with us during the year. So, having a 7 seater may be a bit useful at times.

8.) We don't have parking for a 2nd car. If I buy one, I am going to have to rent one from someone in the building. So, that is an additional expense.

I am recently in the process of upgrading from Swift to Scorpio.
Looking at your situation, the car will be really used only very occasionally and I would say if you are not 100% convinced do not go for the SUV right now. Buyers remorse at 16lakh is a very expensive proposition!
A lot of rental services (Zoomcar, Myles) let you rent Scorpio S10. You can use these whenever the occasions come up.
Instead of paying the emi, start a SIP with the amount and buy only when you are 100% sure of your decision.
Another point is that you can check out S4+ variant which comes to around 11 lakh OTR. Add another 1 lakh for ICE, alloys, etc etc and you can get it for 12lakh.

[rakesh_r]

Originally Posted by mohansrides

Hello Gents & Ladies,

I realize that this post may pertain to some specific thread in the "advise" section. Believe me. I spent some time looking for an appropriate thread there and couldn't find it. Hence I am writing here.

The thing is that I have a bad case of the woozies for the current Mahindra Scorpio and after a lot of heartache, decided to turn to this community of drivers.

We are on the same boat mate. I recently sold off my Swift. Wanted to buy an SUV but the recent developments like-
1-Ban on vehicles with 2.0L engine in Delhi. Cant guarantee if the same rule mite be imposed in rest of the country slowly.
2-Thanks to the recent budget everything above 10 lakhs and 1.5L capacity engines have become expensive.
3-Recent decision of the MH govt to increase road tax.
have put me in a strange situation where anything that was in my budget has simply slipped away.
Out of all the confusion i have booked a Breeza ZDI+ for the time being.

[mohansrides]

This is what I love about Team BHP. Not only is this a community with a common passion; but all of the members here invest in serious thought leadership. For example, I am willing to bet that in most other enthusiast forums, the general trend of suggestions would probably be 100% in the direction of moving a prospective buyer towards a buying decision of said product (whether that product is an SUV or anything else for that matter). It is only here at Team-BHP that we can seek advise and receive in return shouts of encouragement and enthusiasm, balanced with voices of moderation. It's quite incredible when you think about it.

When I wrote my post, what I really wanted was to take the temperature of life situations out there to see if there are others facing a similar predicament, and to hear from people who have been down this road before. And from the responses, it is quite clear that I have plenty of company. More importantly, those of you who have responded have taken the time not just to think about the facts, but to also put yourself in my shoes and examine how I would possibly feel if I went one way or another.

Empathy is this community's biggest strength. Really, I thank you all - srivibhu, n.devdath, timuseravan, rakesh_r.

Originally Posted by srivibhu

Welcome to the confused club.....

SO in your case
1. Small mileage
2. I assume no off roading
3. Family comfort
All tell me that the logical person in you should opt for a SUV LIKE car rather than the rugged Scorpio. Why not try the Duster and the likes or maybe the XUV.

But ultimately if the you feel just at home only in the Scorpio, just go for it. Just maybe decide that you will be off town at least 1 weekend every month to do justice to the Diesel and the EMI

srivibhu... Thank you for your positivity. I drove the Duster a while back and couldn't get over how counter-intuitive the dashboard controls were. Plus, I am not that much of a Duster fan anyway. The XUV is quite attractive. The wife really likes it more than the Scorpio. But, the XUV is more expensive, and also it drives like a car. What I really liked about the Scorpio is the high seating position and it's unapologetically masculine DNA. I am someone who takes a while to make a decision. But, the good thing is that I never regret my decisions (in cars) once I make them. So, thank you for your suggestions. I will keep you posted.

Originally Posted by n.devdath

First things first.

You are right when you say that this is prolly the last chance to buy what you lust for, before 100% practicality, responsibility, long term investments and the like take over.....

This is not a good feeling to have, more so when your usage is negligible further taking the utility of the S10 lower.....

My suggestion is this. I do not know when your child's school starts but till it does, save money and scout around for pre-owned S10. In a city like Bombay, you will surely find them trickling into the pre owned market within a year, find a good one and get it so that you have the best of both worlds, the S10 you lust for, and an EMI you can afford.

Hope it helps.

n.devdath.... Thank you so much for your critical eye. You are absolutely spot on with respect to expenses vis-a-vis buyer's remorse. Believe me, I am scouring the used market. So far, I found three links -

http://mumbai.quikr.com/White-2015-M...AdIdZ259400923

http://mumbai.quikr.com/Mahindra-Sco...AdIdZ245133990

https://www.olx.in/item/mahindra-sco...tml#c98b7dfbfb

Nothing looks promising yet. Incidentally, in that third link, I inquired as to why the tailgate is painted over in white, and couldn't get a satisfactory answer; which makes me think that maybe they are trying to cover up something.

But, like you said, I will probably find something in the next few months.

Originally Posted by timuseravan

I am recently in the process of upgrading from Swift to Scorpio.
Looking at your situation, the car will be really used only very occasionally and I would say if you are not 100% convinced do not go for the SUV right now. Buyers remorse at 16lakh is a very expensive proposition!
A lot of rental services (Zoomcar, Myles) let you rent Scorpio S10. You can use these whenever the occasions come up.
Instead of paying the emi, start a SIP with the amount and buy only when you are 100% sure of your decision.
Another point is that you can check out S4+ variant which comes to around 11 lakh OTR. Add another 1 lakh for ICE, alloys, etc etc and you can get it for 12lakh.

timuseravan.... Trust me, the zoomcar option has crossed my mind for outstation trips. My concern is that we are getting to a point where two cars will become somewhat useful around the house. The trick is to figure out that tipping point and time the purchase so that any buyer's remorse is at least somewhat diluted with the amount of utility that I am getting out of the car. Also, to your other point, the only thing that is drawing me to the S10 is the seat height adjuster, and those LED lights. Else your idea for the S4 looks quite promising.

Originally Posted by rakesh_r

We are on the same boat mate. I recently sold off my Swift. Wanted to buy an SUV but the recent developments like-
1-Ban on vehicles with 2.0L engine in Delhi. Cant guarantee if the same rule mite be imposed in rest of the country slowly.
2-Thanks to the recent budget everything above 10 lakhs and 1.5L capacity engines have become expensive.
3-Recent decision of the MH govt to increase road tax.
have put me in a strange situation where anything that was in my budget has simply slipped away.
Out of all the confusion i have booked a Breeza ZDI+ for the time being.

rakesh_r... I feel you brother. But, take heart. That Brezza looks quite good. I was at the Maruti showroom just two days ago to check it out. I think you will enjoy it.


Everyone... Thank you for your inputs. One other thing that I wanted to put across is this:

I am a software guy who has transitioned into an account management / sales role. Consequently, there is considerable pressure on me, both from my org and from our clients to move to the US. The fact that I used to live there for the first decade of my career gives more credence to the forces pushing me to make the move. I am gamely pushing back because..

1.) Although I salivate at the prospect of US roads, I have no desire to move abroad at this juncture in my life. Plus, the rigour of packing up and moving has just gotten old for me. Also, giving my child access to grandparents, and vice versa is quite nice.

2.) My wife and I are the only children for our parents left in India. I recently helped my dad get thru' his chemo phase for his Lymphoma. And at the cost of sounding morbid, I have to say that I got more satisfaction out of helping my dad beat the big C back, than what I did in 16 years of professional exploits in 3 continents.

3.) Finally, it is only after I have reluctantly returned that I have woken up to how wonderful it is to live in one's own country. Yes, the money isn't all that great, and I am not rich by any measure. But, being home kicks some serious ass. I never realized how much of an Indian I am, and how much I enjoyed my Indian identity.

Having said the above, I should also say that I am not sure how long I would be able to hold out. At some point in the next 3 years, the probability of my move abroad is much closer to one than my liking. So, this is an added consideration in my purchase decision. Having to turn around and sell the car in a couple of years is not a welcoming thought.

Cheers

[n.devdath]

Originally Posted by mohansrides

n.devdath.... Thank you so much for your critical eye.


https://www.olx.in/item/mahindra-sco...tml#c98b7dfbfb

Nothing looks promising yet. Incidentally, in that third link, I inquired as to why the tailgate is painted over in white, and couldn't get a satisfactory answer; which makes me think that maybe they are trying to cover up something.

You are welcome..!!

That is easy. For one, the service history of the vehicle should reveal any accident repair as should the insurance NCB. However, even if the tailgate has been repaired/replaced outside, it is a standalone component which can safely be replaced without compromising on the structural integrity of the vehicle. Get the vehicle thoroughly checked at an M&M service centre or an trusted independent garage and you should be set to take a decision.

[srivibhu]

Originally Posted by mohansrides

srivibhu... Thank you for your positivity. I drove the Duster a while back and couldn't get over how counter-intuitive the dashboard controls were. Plus, I am not that much of a Duster fan anyway. The XUV is quite attractive. The wife really likes it more than the Scorpio. But, the XUV is more expensive, and also it drives like a car. What I really liked about the Scorpio is the high seating position and it's unapologetically masculine DNA. I am someone who takes a while to make a decision. But, the good thing is that I never regret my decisions (in cars) once I make them. So, thank you for your suggestions. I will keep you posted.

Horrible Dash I agree, and i was so close to getting the Lodgy (which shares the same panel as Duster) even if EOL. But skipped it mainly for the Dash.

Actually the XUV feels pretty nice when you raise the seat that I can actually see the front of the vehicle, and I'm 5 11 but the elevated seat position does not feel awkward. But Scorpio is I agree a bit better.

There are a at least 3 cars in the MUV/XUV style from Renault, Honda and Toyota coming in June I guess which should give you a wider choice.

I am a software guy who has transitioned into an account management / sales role. Consequently, there is considerable pressure on me, both from my org and from our clients to move to the US. The fact that I used to live there for the first decade of my career gives more credence to the forces pushing me to make the move. I am gamely pushing back because..

1.) Although I salivate at the prospect of US roads, I have no desire to move abroad at this juncture in my life. Plus, the rigour of packing up and moving has just gotten old for me. Also, giving my child access to grandparents, and vice versa is quite nice.

2.) My wife and I are the only children for our parents left in India. I recently helped my dad get thru' his chemo phase for his Lymphoma. And at the cost of sounding morbid, I have to say that I got more satisfaction out of helping my dad beat the big C back, than what I did in 16 years of professional exploits in 3 continents.

3.) Finally, it is only after I have reluctantly returned that I have woken up to how wonderful it is to live in one's own country. Yes, the money isn't all that great, and I am not rich by any measure. But, being home kicks some serious ass. I never realized how much of an Indian I am, and how much I enjoyed my Indian identity.

Having said the above, I should also say that I am not sure how long I would be able to hold out. At some point in the next 3 years, the probability of my move abroad is much closer to one than my liking. So, this is an added consideration in my purchase decision. Having to turn around and sell the car in a couple of years is not a welcoming thought.

Cheers

you sound like my biographer now!

[GKMahajan]

Originally Posted by FidoDido

I have a s10 (2+2+3) captain seats version.

The last row could easily accommodate 2 adults. Even 2 kids and one adult could easily fit into it for long drives.

For short runs within the city, even 3 adults do sat in the 3rd row without complaining.


On the top of all this, the captain seats version looks the most premium one to me.

Rest it varies from person to person.

Dear FidoDido,

I am seriously considering Scorpio W10 AT.

We are 6 adults in the family. I am interested in the Captain seats version. Could you share your experiences and if possible some photos too?

Thanking you in advance,

Girish Mahajan

[sourabhzen]

Originally Posted by mohansrides

timuseravan.... Trust me, the zoomcar option has crossed my mind for outstation trips. My concern is that we are getting to a point where two cars will become somewhat useful around the house. The trick is to figure out that tipping point and time the purchase so that any buyer's remorse is at least somewhat diluted with the amount of utility that I am getting out of the car. Also, to your other point, the only thing that is drawing me to the S10 is the seat height adjuster, and those LED lights. Else your idea for the S4 looks quite promising.

If I were you, I would not keep two cars with me. Rentals and Uber would suit my requirement quite satisfactorily.

However, I feel you really want S10. Why don't you replace Ritz with S10 for the time being and use Uber etc. whenever required. They are quite convenient IMO.

[mohansrides]

Originally Posted by sourabhzen

Why don't you replace Ritz with S10 for the time being and use Uber etc. whenever required. They are quite convenient IMO.

The wife won't drive the S10. She learnt on our Ritz and has gotten used to it. Plus, even if I sell it, I will not get much for it.

Also, the zoomcar option only becomes economical for long trips. I don't foresee us making any at all. We are most homebodies and generally drive in the city. I can't justify the S10 based on any of my usage patterns. I just like the car. That's all.

I am a patient man when it comes to these things. And it's a good drill to evaluate different options and exercise restraint.

[wanderer4x4]

Guys, this post is to understand the general quality of the new generation Scorpio over the previous gen. To give a little background, I've just sold off my 4 year old VLX 4wd and am now in two minds whether to go for the new gen despite it being touted as much improved. Why I'm doubtful? Check out the small "review" and the issues that I'd faced with my Scorpio.

1) 4wd sensor gone twice.
2) After replacement of the sensor, was told that the front hubs also need replacement at 28k a piece. This despite negligible 4wd usage.
3) Clock spring gone kaput.
4) Cruise control not working.
5) One horn always shorted and was non working despite changing the horn twice. I suspected faulty wiring, ASC did not think so.
6) Puddle lamps not working.
7) Remote lock had a mind of its own.
8 ) AC blower motor needs replacement due to wear and tear of inner bushes.
9) Both rear power window motors gone due to "low usage".
10) Both vacuum modulator valves gone one after the other within 1 month of each other.

All these issues happened after my warranty got over and sadly I didn't have the extended warranty and had to spend lots of money in the parts replacements.

Now let's hear about some quality issues.

1) There was rust on the body where both the rear doors touch the wheel well. If you notice, there is a large gap between the body and the rear door cladding which is covered by a rubber beading. I had rust on both sides where the rubbers touch the body.
2) Rust on the A pillar of the size of a Rs 10 coin. The rust ran so deep that bare corrugated metal had started to come off.
3) The wiper arms, both front and rear, never set aligned right when placed back, say after a wash.
4) The general quality of the switchgear, plastics etc suck big time.
To give an example, one fine day, one of the switches from the steering mounted controls just came off on its own. Solution? Replace the entire panel of switches. I didn't even bother to ask the cost.

I'm not considering the numerous other mechanical parts replaced, which I'm considering as wear and tear (even which, in all my years of other car ownership, I'd never faced).

Silver lining in all those issues was that the dreaded clutch slave cylinder failure hit me only at 83k, at night, right in front of the gate of the ASC. How convenient.

One funny incident was when I'd parked, was getting down from the seat and the back of my coat got caught in the seat back adjustment lever. There was this sound and I, fearful that my suit got ripped and ruined, turned around to see that the handle had broken off without a scratch to my jacket. How thoughtful of M&M to give such plastics, at the right places to prevent jacket tear.

However, even after facing all these issues, I don't see a replacement vehicle among the current offerings for my needs apart from the Scorpio. If I at all go with the Scorpio, it'll be a barebones S4+ 4wd as I don't trust M&M electronics and gadgets anymore.

I've test driven the new one, (incidentally which didn't have the reverse camera and steering controls working and the glove box not closing properly, in a 5k run car) interiors of which didn't feel much too great a jump over my Scorpio. My query to the current gen owners /users is that are the actual improvements vast as compared to the previous gen over a longer term. Let's keep the ride and handling aside as I'm more concerned here about the quality issues.

[comfortablynumb]

Originally Posted by wanderer4x4

Guys, this post is to understand the general quality of the new generation Scorpio over the previous gen.

It's M&M buddy. Even if they have fixed the previous gen issues, you can be reasonably confident that there are new ones in the new gen (I own a 6 year old mHawk SLE)

[mohansrides]

Originally Posted by wanderer4x4

Guys, this post is to understand the general quality of the new generation Scorpio over the previous gen. To give a little background, I've just sold off my 4 year old VLX 4wd and am now in two minds whether to go for the new gen despite it being touted as much improved. Why I'm doubtful? Check out the small "review" and the issues that I'd faced with my Scorpio.

1) 4wd sensor gone twice.
2) After replacement of the sensor, was told that the front hubs also need replacement at 28k a piece. This despite negligible 4wd usage.
3) Clock spring gone kaput.
4) Cruise control not working.
5) One horn always shorted and was non working despite changing the horn twice. I suspected faulty wiring, ASC did not think so.
6) Puddle lamps not working.
7) Remote lock had a mind of its own.
8 ) AC blower motor needs replacement due to wear and tear of inner bushes.
9) Both rear power window motors gone due to "low usage".
10) Both vacuum modulator valves gone one after the other within 1 month of each other.

All these issues happened after my warranty got over and sadly I didn't have the extended warranty and had to spend lots of money in the parts replacements.

Now let's hear about some quality issues.

1) There was rust on the body where both the rear doors touch the wheel well. If you notice, there is a large gap between the body and the rear door cladding which is covered by a rubber beading. I had rust on both sides where the rubbers touch the body.
2) Rust on the A pillar of the size of a Rs 10 coin. The rust ran so deep that bare corrugated metal had started to come off.
3) The wiper arms, both front and rear, never set aligned right when placed back, say after a wash.
4) The general quality of the switchgear, plastics etc suck big time.
To give an example, one fine day, one of the switches from the steering mounted controls just came off on its own. Solution? Replace the entire panel of switches. I didn't even bother to ask the cost.

I'm not considering the numerous other mechanical parts replaced, which I'm considering as wear and tear (even which, in all my years of other car ownership, I'd never faced).

Silver lining in all those issues was that the dreaded clutch slave cylinder failure hit me only at 83k, at night, right in front of the gate of the ASC. How convenient.

One funny incident was when I'd parked, was getting down from the seat and the back of my coat got caught in the seat back adjustment lever. There was this sound and I, fearful that my suit got ripped and ruined, turned around to see that the handle had broken off without a scratch to my jacket. How thoughtful of M&M to give such plastics, at the right places to prevent jacket tear.

However, even after facing all these issues, I don't see a replacement vehicle among the current offerings for my needs apart from the Scorpio. If I at all go with the Scorpio, it'll be a barebones S4+ 4wd as I don't trust M&M electronics and gadgets anymore.

I've test driven the new one, (incidentally which didn't have the reverse camera and steering controls working and the glove box not closing properly, in a 5k run car) interiors of which didn't feel much too great a jump over my Scorpio. My query to the current gen owners /users is that are the actual improvements vast as compared to the previous gen over a longer term. Let's keep the ride and handling aside as I'm more concerned here about the quality issues.

WOW!!! I mean WOW!!! I bow down to your patience and sustained lack of negativity even after all this. You must really love your Scorpio.

[roy_libran]

Originally Posted by wanderer4x4

If I at all go with the Scorpio, it'll be a barebones S4+ 4wd as I don't trust M&M electronics and gadgets anymore.

S4+ 4WD
July 2015
10000 km till date

1. 4-5 times Alignment Corrected, but again goes off in less than 1000 kms
2. EGR Pin Blocked (Recent)
3. Tail Gate Rattle
4. Two Side Door Rattles and Rear Window Rattle
5. Bad rear seat contours - need small pillow in Lumbar region for long distance travel. Good Front seats though.
6. Mediocre AC Performance for second row passengers, despite the rear vents, in very hot conditions. No such problems at front.
7. Suspension likes to track every road rut or contour (very minor ones as well)
8. Too much driver fatigue on long drives, due to constant steering inputs and corrections to maintain a straight line
9. Nervous and mediocre braking, made worse by the pitching and yawing

It's a great vehicle on paper - and that's about it!

[wanderer4x4]

Originally Posted by comfortablynumb

It's M&M buddy. Even if they have fixed the previous gen issues, you can be reasonably confident that there are new ones in the new gen (I own a 6 year old mHawk SLE)

Originally Posted by roy_libran

It's a great vehicle on paper - and that's about it!

Both of your comments unfortunately or fortunately match with my own thoughts. And I don't want to go through all that headache once again. But, having said that I don't know where to look for my needs and it seems that M&M is taking advantage of this "there is no alternative" scenario for us hapless buyers in that segment of the market and dishing out these niggle prone Scorpios.:banghead:

Originally Posted by mohansrides

WOW!!! I mean WOW!!! I bow down to your patience and sustained lack of negativity even after all this. You must really love your Scorpio.

I do like the Scorpio due to its clean, boxy design, the high seating position and easy maneuverability. But, to be honest, it's more of a heart thing than a head thing. The quality on offer in a 15 lakh vehicle is abominable. Heck, even my wife's Eon has better switches and plastics offering much better tactile feel.
But the issue is there is no other vehicle in that price range offering what I'm looking for. The day there is a competitor offering something in that segment with good reliability with what other benefits the Scorpio offers, I'll be the first to jump ship. And am sure I'll not be alone in taking that decision.

[roy_libran]

Originally Posted by wanderer4x4

But the issue is there is no other vehicle in that price range offering what I'm looking for. The day there is a competitor offering something in that segment with good reliability with what other benefits the Scorpio offers, I'll be the first to jump ship.

If having a Chassis is NOT an Absolute Must, mainly for very bad roads regularly, load applications or off-roading, I would encourage you to look at Monocoque options. Almost, all the monocoque alternatives are way ahead in terms of refinement and reliability, and with the Duster AWD, even capability!

[wanderer4x4]

Originally Posted by roy_libran

If having a Chassis is NOT an Absolute Must,........ with the Duster AWD, even capability!

I did think of the Duster AWD, but I don't see much value in spending 15 lakhs in the dated vehicle. (Purely my opinion, no offense to any current or prospective owners) Was hoping for some major upgrades in this facelift, but was not to be.

Sigh, only if TATA/ M&M made the Scorpio / Safari more reliable, a lot of us would have been spared this dilemma.:banghead: