[swiftnfurious]

Originally Posted by Keralite

What a paradox guys....!

...

Aren't we too greedy or we all should have been in US, aspiring for a Ferrari test drive

Nop! The competition in both the cases had moved on and there was little aspiration the Maruti models left. In an era where the competition is providing 100+ bhp figures and equally good / better interiors, what USP does Maruti have?! A 3 kmpl difference in diesel FE can NOT be a differentiator for the crowd at 10L segment.

Maruti is NOT doing a favor by providing good interiors; the buyers of this segment simply deserves it!!

[RGK]

Sweet and crisp review by Adhitya.
Interiors are impressive, but the engine performance disappoints and who knows Ciaz will outwit other competitors by its reliability in the long run.

[ABbaby]

I had booked a ciaz AT pre-launch and decided to cancel it. I couldn't find a single COMPELLING reason to buy it. Boring styling + average power + only a 4 speed AT box + nothing special about the price is what turned me against it. Maruti has great service but I was in the market to enjoy a car and not the service.

[malq]

1238 - excited call from Maruti Suzuki dealer
"Sir, please come immediately to the showroom, you have to complete payment and bank formalities for the Maruti Ciaz that you have booked."
"Hang on, slowly slowly, I can't come till Sunday, meanwhile, when do I get delivery?"
"End October Sir.
"Then why do you want payments now, and anyways, what is the VIN number, what colour, what variant".
"Sir, what colour variant do you want?"
"That is written in my booking form, that's what I want"
"I will just ask Sir"

Lots of background noise including stuff which gets me slightly pissed off, so I hang up.

1241 - fresh call from same Maruti Suzuki dealer
"Sir, only white and only VXi"
"But I want grey and VXi+"
"OK Sir, when it will come, you will get, but please come and make payment otherwise delivery will be delayed"
"Delayed more than end October"
"Yes Sir, please come and make payment"
"But you already have my booking amount, why should I pay you the full sum now itself"
(She starts getting angry) "You can always take your booking amount back".

So, I just did, asked them for my refund.

Cars are off the shelf, other manufacturers are competing on an every car basis, this morning's newspapers are full of deals for both new and used cars, and Maruti is trying to sell upper-end cars to people like they used to in the ration-shop Maruti-800 days, to people who now expect service even for a plate of cholle-bhature costing 40/-.

As a matter of fact, the cholle-bhature guys should be the benchmark for customer service in India, especially the gent serving kadi-chawal and cholle-bhature outside Super Bazar, previously at Shankar Market.

I think the "great after-sales and service network" aspect of Maruti-Suzuki is about to go for a toss if this continues.

(Updates - calls from dealer asking me to please not cancel the booking. But when I ask about deliveries of a VXi+ in grey or beige, no firm responses)

[ABbaby]

Originally Posted by Yeldo

........

The real issue is not in the price. But the car. The seat comfort, at least while sitting in the display car in the showroom, was not good. Like the case of the Nissan Sunny, having a big car with plenty of legroom at the rear is not simply enough. The inadequate seats make travelling really an unpleasant affair.

========

If I am asked to chose between a Dzire and an Amaze, I shall go for the Dzire. Similarly, I would chose the Swift over the Brio any day. But here, unless I live a 100km away from a Honda service centre, I shall chose the City. No contest.

Couldn't agree with you more. The ciaz is unlikely to be a dud but I don't see it setting the sales charts on fire.

[sourabhzen]

Originally Posted by malq

(She starts getting angry) "You can always take your booking amount back".

So, I just did, asked them for my refund.

Good decision IMO. Can you please name the dealer for others benefit? Why are they scared of a customer taking back his booking amount when they claim to have thousands of bookings?

Maruti's biggest advantage is customer satisfaction through its dealerships and workshops. Such attitude will definitely push buyers towards other brands.

[malq]

Originally Posted by sourabhzen

Good decision IMO. Can you please name the dealer for others benefit? Why are they scared of a customer taking back his booking amount when they claim to have thousands of bookings?

Maruti's biggest advantage is customer satisfaction through its dealerships and workshops. Such attitude will definitely push buyers towards other brands.

For far too long, as consumers, have we been made to dance and dangle in the game between dealer and manufacturer - and this has to stop. As far as I am concerned, I am the manufacturer's customer, so who the dealer is shall always be not relevant. The manufacturer in this case knows who the dealer is, and it is up to them to take corrective action, as well as understand who the customer is. If the manufacturer gives more weightage to the dealer, then so be it, their lookout.

I had this same run-in decades ago on components which were of proprietory brand names.

AC out of order? Go to AC manufacturer.
Tyres faulty? Go to tyre manufacturer.
Electricals like horns going defective? Go to electrical vendor.

Had to fight this out which is why today manufacturers must provide a single point corrective for the complete vehicle, not like in the '90s when we were made to dance.

Same for this advance booking thing - mistake is to make consumers give advance booking to dealers, am taking this up with Ministry of Finance, did car dealers or manufacturers become NBFCs or what, that they are taking deposits without paying interest or raising an invoice?

There is a system for taking advances - raise a performa/proforma invoice, add "prices as applicable at time of delivery", and then take the money under specified terms and conditions. Not like this, where a customer is treated like a locked in slave, forcing the customer to accept a non-desired slow-moving colour or variant!!

[shankar.balan]

Even Sergio Marchionne who replaced Luca Di Montezemolo at the helm of Ferrari is pretty much going to do the same thing and make Ferrari more accessible to a larger mass of buyers.
All brands at some time in their development, start moving towards becoming commodities.
Think on it - in the 1960's if you wanted to own a Jag, you really had to be someone with plenty of money and in those days, money typically did go hand in hand with "class", at least to a larger extent than it does today.
Now, this latest Jaguar XE which they have just launched, is competing with the BMW 3 Series and the Audi A4 level of cars. So even Jag have moved right down the value chain in order to attract more buyers.
Then you have VW / Skoda - when they came in 2000 their Octavia was an instant hit because it was quickly dubbed the "poor man's merc" and people appreciated it for its Euro solidity. Now they've started concentrating on these "built for India" Rapid's and others, which are many notches below their premium offerings.
Lets also remember that Internationally, Suzuki, Honda, Toyota and to an extent Nissan are all direct competitors. It is only in India, on account of the vehicles that these brands launched at first, that people perceive Suzuki as less premium than the others. I think with Ciaz, MSIL is making a good effort towards taking the brand up the value chain. In the same breath, the other manufacturers are trying to meet the mass market needs by bringing in these cheap as chips, designed and built for India, products.
It is not wrong to go down the value chain in the hope of attracting more and newer custom. But I personally get irritated when they compromise quality and safety while doing so.

Originally Posted by saket77

Typical of what can happen when a premium brand moves down the segments. Honda is one of the best examples. On the other hand, a budget brand (in India), Suzuki is trying to get into the C segment and hence is improving and the progress is good.

Just think of it this way that way back a decade, Honda City was the cheapest offering by Honda in its Indian portfolio with the Civic in the middle and Accord placed as the top most offering in the D segment. Today, there is no Accord, No Civic, and if fact, the City is the most expensive car that can be driven out of a Honda showroom and Brio being the cheapest, right there competing with B segment hatches of budget manufacturers like MSIL & Hyundai. So, the change in Honda's policy towards India is very much intentional. Though, down somewhere it hurts to see companies moving down segments and finally resorting to evident cost cutting in terms of quality.

[audioholic]

Originally Posted by malq

For far too long, as consumers, have we been made to dance and dangle in the game between dealer and manufacturer - and this has to stop. As far as I am concerned, I am the manufacturer's customer, so who the dealer is shall always be not relevant. The manufacturer in this case knows who the dealer is, and it is up to them to take corrective action, as well as understand who the customer is. If the manufacturer gives more weightage to the dealer, then so be it, their lookout.

But whats wrong in giving details about where you booked the car from? This will help other people from avoiding such experiences and the dealer learning a lesson out of it. But the actual fact is, be it Maruti, Honda, Ford or Toyota or any manufacturer and dealer, when there is demand, such incidents are not uncommon. Only when a product bombs, they will be behind our back to cut a deal.

[dark.knight]

Originally Posted by malq

(She starts getting angry) "You can always take your booking amount back".

The most important thing when dealing with a dealer is leverage. Money paid in full will guarantee them the full asking price of the product in their hands, but it will never guarantee you correct time of delivery/preferred product/terms to your convenience. I suggest if you aren't in a hurry, to pull out and either book elsewhere for the same car or some other. If they themselves say "you can always take it back" it means they "hallucinate" about having higher leverage since clearly demand outweighs supply (for now). In that case they are even free to introduce a bidding system over and above sale price if they such deem their customers as under their mercy.

There maybe a dearth of places that serve good chhole-bhature but good cars aren't hard to find these days at the same cost or even lesser than Ciaz. Suzuki (company or dealers) better think 10 times before assuming they have monopoly. BSNL did the same with landline connections and went 1st to last in under a decade. If you want to send them a message, don't yield to their delay tactics & yank the deposit out.

[RavenAvi]

I was invited to the official launch of the Ciaz in my city earlier this evening at 5:30 PM. The local dealer, Sky Auto, had set up a stall in the heart of the city for Diwali and that was the venue for the launching.

When I reached there, I was in for a pleasant surprise. I was asked to unveil the Ciaz officially (along with another esteemed Maruti customer), for the local press boys and the general public. I did so happily, posing for pictures with the newly-launched MSIL beauty for the journos. The local newspapers are going to have a field day tomorrow.

The unveiled Ciaz was a Brown ZDI.

Used the moment to check out the Ciaz thoroughly from the inside. Here are my impressions:

- Definitely has presence like the Honda City. Looks longer and wider than the City, actually.

- Humongous boot. Plenty of usable space too. Spares neatly packed in thermocol.

- Rear headroom is almost non-existent for a 6'0"-footer like me. Banging head, when going over breakers, is a definite.

- Under-thigh support in the rear seat is average.

- Shoulder room looks to be adequate.

- Rear seating seemed to be more upright than my Honda City. Not pleasant for long drives.

- The integrated headrests are soft enough. Rear sunblind is a classy touch.

- Legroom is plenty. Overall, the rear reminded me of the Sunny with acres of legroom, but absolutely minimal headroom.

- Driver's seat was a lot more comfortable to be in, with some space between head and roof as well.

- Driver's seat was not as delightful as the City's or others, where you get a feeling of sinking into it. The seat compound is firm, and lateral support is mediocre.

- Enough gizmos to keep the owner interested.

- Start/Stop button not immediately evident by it's presence, and makes you look for it. Placed on the correct (right) side, though.

- White dials in the ODO at night look really, really classy. Simple, yet very elegant.

- Put the reverse gear on, and the reverse camera display comes alive in the Internal Rear View Mirror, on it's left side (a-la the Verna). IRVM also has power auto-dimming feature.

A sizeable crowd had thronged in to check out the Ciaz in the flesh. A prompt delivery of the first Ciaz of my city, a Maroon Red ZDI (possibly the one in my spy shots from a week ago), was completed there as well. Much to the amusement of the dealership manager and myself, the new owner had no idea how the Start/Stop button worked, and neither was well-versed in the ways of Automatic Climate Control. Someone from the staff came over and (thankfully) explained everything to them before they took off.

Plenty of enquiries came in for the Ciaz. A lot of influential people of my city came over to check it out, and inquire about it's pricing and availability. From the looks of it, we might be seeing quite a few Ciaz-es in my city in the next 5-6 months.

I am told a VDI is also available at the dealership.

Deliveries to begin after 15 days.

[ssateesh]

Was at a maruti dealership today checking out ciaz. The sales person told that the reason zdi+/zxi+ are getting delayed and no orders being taken is because of maruti not yet having license for navigation in car from the government

[malq]

For what it is worth, the used car "dealers" in the famous South Delhi motor market in Lajpat Nagar near where I live, who I met during my morning walk earlier today, tell me that there is "nil premium" on the advance booking for the Ciaz which some of them had done. That single point tells more of a story about the realities of the car's prospects than anything else, and some of them are of the opinion that post-Diwali, which is only 12 days away and is in any case causing concern to other retailers of other products, the Ciaz may well be available at a discount since many of the other manufacturers are moving stock of sedans. Because facing all of them, face it, is the worry of 2014 manufactured stock piling up before the 2015 stock arrives a few months from now too.

They say the same about the Tata Zest too, by the way, will likely be at a discount post-Diwali.

[4k_jz]

On road price Delhi:



At first Glance, the Ciaz didn't excite. Although the neutral looks policy of Maruti has always worked.(purely personal view point)

The build quality didn’t assure. The rear door felt feather light. I felt happy
walking back to my Ertiga.

Unlike the “z+”, the foot well illumination cannot be adjusted in “z” variant.

The “v/v+” variants are already in the dealer’s stockyard and “z” variant would be delivered not before December (as told by the dealer, Delhi only).

The ACC was working nicely. No separate fan speed control for rear AC vents.

The rear seat is comfortable and the headrest is really soft. Though the thigh support could have been better.

The rear arm rest is suitably placed and wider than ertiga/dzire.

The chrome garnish on the boot lid (above the number plate area)is only available in Z+ variant which is not available till next year.

The boot space is humongous! (the Ertigans would understand )

[harry10]

Had my second service of City today. As Maruti showroom is next to it thought of checking Ciaz. There is only one display vehicle and no TD which is surprising considering it's launch few days back. Only one person to attend. He didn't had the key to the car so had to wait 15 more minutes.
My impressions -
1- looked good in the brown shade. Nothing exciting but clean looks. Projector headlamps give it's plain appearance some character. Back is identical to City but City looks better from behind.

2- Alloys are miles ahead of city's horrendous ones. Good job Maruti.

3- Not impressed by interior quality. As per reports here I was expecting the interiors much better than City but it isn't. The display vehicle was a ZDi which is one below top model as per SA. He also mentioned that Maruti might scrap touchscreen system as the initial reports weren't good for it.

4- Boot could not be opened. We tried for 10 mins but it didn't open. Don't know why. Battery was disconnected so could that be a reason? Though it shouldn't be.

5- Seats- this will be a deal breaker for me. Even after trying many times I couldn't find a good driving position which feels comfortable. They are bucket seats but don't have that sofa like feeling which you get in City. Only City owners could relate with this. Move to the back and there is acres of legroom which a 6.1 height person like me appreciates in abundance. But, it's spoiled by headroom. My head was touching the roof while it's still so on a bump or breaker I will definitely bang my head. And were is the under thigh support? No way 3 People can sit comfortably at the back and in a long highway run people will complain aplenty. Maybe I am a bit more critical but I am now spoiled by the comfort of n City seats so anything less is not acceptable.

All in all it looks a competent car but I am not impressed as I thought I will be. ZDi costs 1051000 on road. I paid 1070000 for the City. So, would I have got Ciaz instead of City if the option was there. On the basis of what I saw No. Maybe TD can change my opinion but I doubt it. Lesse, SA will call as soon as they get vehicles for TD.
Btw, for delivery he said Sir somewhere in 2015 cos we are getting few vehicles per month.

Will see on my way back if I can TD Zest too today.