Team-BHP - Volkswagen Polo 1.2L GT TSI : Official Review

Quote:

Originally Posted by karan85 (Post 4670641)

In traffic I have always stayed in D. S & Manual are only engaged for spirited driving. Frankly I bought the auto because I wanted the gear box to do all the working while I was in traffic
& moving to manual is something I really don't want to be doing while crawling in bumper to bumper.

agree:
It's inconvenient if you have to take manual control. But, it is still better than having to clutch in/clutch while at it.
The DQ200 isn't the best option for our conditions - heat + traffic, and a TC /CVT would be a better bet for heavy traffic drives.

Quote:

Also, what you mention about "staying in D2" is true when the car is moving. But when its stop and go traffic it will come down D1. Also D1 is a very short gear hence it quickly moves to D2 from what I feel.

The transmission shifts to/stays at D1 very very rarely. It moves to D2 also while creeping - i.e. From a standstill, in D mode, leave the brake, without touching the accelerator the car will creep and upshift to D2 while creeping ahead. I found this mildly amusing. lol:

Quote:

Yup, it was always the mechatronic failure that I kept seeing in forums and was taken by surprise when VW SA told me its the multi-clutch. This is the 4th DSG car we have owned - We had the Laura and 2 generations of Superbs but the DQ250 in them never gave us any problems with all of them doing over 80k KMs each.

DQ200's Multi-clutch giving these type of problems at 20K KMs is just not acceptable in my opinion even though I wasn't charged for replacement it was a little but of an irritant being without a car for a week. Also the replacement cost was about 1.1 lakh which if I had to pay would have been massively painful.

Again, totally agree.
But, the main reason would be that the DQ250 aren't dry clutches like the DQ200 is, and hence are better suited for conditions involving a lot of slip, and consequentially, heat.

Quote:

Originally Posted by keith2524 (Post 4670649)

Appreciate if you can elaborate a bit more on this logic? If D mode is slipping the clutch in D2 and in M mode you are slipping the other clutch in M1, is it not the same wear and tear, but with a different clutch set?

Quote:

Originally Posted by karan85 (Post 4670684)

I think what veyron999 meant was that when you are in stop-go traffic and in D the gear box keeps switching between D1-D2-D1-D2.. since its very eager to move to D2 from D1 and goes back to D1 as you stop because of the traffic.
With every change in gear the clutch is used. So if you keep it in manual it stays in M1 and doesn't switch to the 2nd gear unless it goes to the redline. Hence the D1-D2 switches are reduced and further clutch is used less frequently. The gear box is very aggressive to move to D2 but IMHO keeping it in manual in traffic defeats the purpose of having an auto, at least for me.

The DSG is an automated manual gearbox essentially.
It's like a manual transmission except that the clutch is operated by the mechatronics unit instead of the driver. Just as in a manual transmission, you have to engage the gear, slip the clutch slightly before you fully engage the clutch.
So, in a manual, if you're in 2nd gear at <~10kmph you will have to slip the clutch or depress it fully to prevent a stall. The DSG would also have to slip the clutch till you reach a certain speed. That speed will be ~3-4 kmph for 1st gear, and >10kph for second gear (roughly). So, if you're at less than 10kmph in 2nd gear, the mechatronics will be slipping the clutch, causing it to heat more, and cause more wear.
Keeping the above in mind, when I'm in bumper to bumper traffic, I shift to manual, and keep it in 1st gear. It will reduce slip (as compared to D2), and also the number of shifts from D1-D2-D1 as karan mentioned.

The point to note here is that the major wear on the clutches is caused while it is slipping, and not when it's fully engaged.

I feel that the DSG is programmed to move to D2 to prevent jerkiness in D1 at slow speeds. (Due to more aggressive engine braking in D1 than in D2)

Quote:

Originally Posted by veyron999 (Post 4670850)

I feel that the DSG is programmed to move to D2 to prevent jerkiness in D1 at slow speeds. (Due to more aggressive engine braking in D1 than in D2)

I agree, but also feel its a bit excessively fixed!, the way the DSG behaves between D1 and D2. If you shift to manual it refuses to shift to D2 unless you reach 2k rpm, completely opposite to the D mode.

What is interesting is that I just bought an Octavia with the same DQ200 and it seems to behave slightly differently. For example
1) the excessive down shifting on slightest braking doesn't exist
2) the slippage while starting off is much less, (maybe because of a new car and more powerful engine)

The above 2 coupled with a smoother engine have me driving the Octavia in D mode rather than M, which is use 90% of the time with the GT.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SLK (Post 4670868)

agree:
We have an Octavia in the family too, and I too have felt that it slips less on the Octy. No sharp jerks like the D3->D2 on the GT either. Overall it seems like it's way more mature on the 1.8 TSI.
Can mostly be attributed to the more powerful engine, as I've read elsewhere.

Congratulations on your new car. It's a gem!

Quote:

Originally Posted by contentedbloke (Post 4668325)

I am going through a similar dilemma - whether to buy a new TSI at close to 11.5 on the road or buy a pre-owned around 5 lacs. If you are mentally ready to set apart another 1.2 lacs for the DSG related issues since car is outside warranty, then it makes sense to buy a pre-owner car. Your effective cost is 6 lacs which is still not bad for the best AT hatchback available. Most people buy the GT TSI only for the engine and DSG, and most of us are well aware that the car falls short of most other comparable vehicles in the 11-12 lacs budget on so many other categories / features. It's the absolute driving pleasure that tilts the buying decision - so if we can get it at 50% or even 60% of the original cost, why not?

Thanks ContentedBloke, its good to know I am thinking in the right direction.

BTW, I noticed that the ones I was seeing for around 5L were 2013 manufactured, and had 60K on the odometer.

Since then I have been looking for some more recent options and have singled out 2, which have 20k on the odometer, are 2016 manufactured, and the asking price is around 7L, what would be a good price for this specification? Where should I aim to take the negotiations?

I guess 2016 is a lot better than 2013 as many DSG issues were sorted by then, besides I am hoping it would be under extended warranty, but that remains to be seen.

Would be great to have the forums feedback on the same.

Regards

Quote:

Originally Posted by harryputtar (Post 4671608)

Since then I have been looking for some more recent options and have singled out 2, which have 20k on the odometer, are 2016 manufactured, and the asking price is around 7L, what would be a good price for this specification? Where should I aim to take the negotiations?

Last year I had bought an April 2016 Manufactured GT TSI in Pune, single owner, 11k on the ODO, literally like new, for pennies over 7L. Not sure if I got a great deal, and what you are seeing is priced correctly. But I would recommend you start around 6L and aim for 6.25-6.5.

If you like the car and it really is very good, then a little bit over may be worth it (I see that you're in Pune, so am I. In my experience it's difficult to get a clean TSI in Pune due to limited sellers - I searched daily for almost 2 months and was almost giving up till I found one).

Also please do get the history checked at BU Bhandari or similar. I found a lot of dodgy accident vehicles with cover up jobs so best to do your due diligence.

Hope this helps.

Quote:

Originally Posted by harryputtar (Post 4671617)

Any checklist for what I can check myself? When checking out the interior, exterior and taking a test drive?
Can I take some professional help in getting the car checked out? Any pointers for the same in Pune?
Regards

There is a team bhp guide. Here is the link.
In addition, just keep in mind that the DSG gearbox is the weakest link in the car so go for the newest, most sparingly used model you can get. Aim for a car under warranty and ask the VW dealer if you can still purchase an extended warranty. A single owner, bone stock car is ideal. If possible extend your search to Mumbai. I have seen several used GTIs here for around six lakhs (you can estimate the price to be paid using Orange Book) . For example, Quick Cars has one Link. I believe this is the same dealer GTO and a couple of other Bhpians have got a vehicle from. Try getting the car you want to buy to A VW dealership for an inspection. If not, then atleast a mechanic familiar with these cars. Lastly, with the recent floods in MH there may be a few flood damaged cars coming in so keep an eye out to avoid that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by karan85 (Post 4670684)

Interesting. My car seems to be eager to get into D1, and not the other way around. This causes an unwanted jerky downshift to D1 from D2. In crawling traffic it mostly stays in D1. Do I have a dud gearbox?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iyencar (Post 4671647)

In many cases, a car that's run a higher distance on highways is better than a car that has run a higher distance in crowded roads and worse still, bumper to bumper traffic. This applies to both automatic and manual gear boxes.

In reality, the number of hours that an engine has run is more important than the distance covered. Auto manufacturers should give an option to track the duration that an engine has run.

Would anyone know if this information is stored somewhere in the ECU?

Quote:

Originally Posted by harryputtar (Post 4671608)

BTW, I noticed that the ones I was seeing for around 5L were 2013 manufactured, and had 60K on the odometer.

Since then I have been looking for some more recent options and have singled out 2, which have 20k on the odometer, are 2016 manufactured, and the asking price is around 7L, what would be a good price for this specification? Where should I aim to take the negotiations?

I guess 2016 is a lot better than 2013 as many DSG issues were sorted by then, besides I am hoping it would be under extended warranty, but that remains to be seen.

Would be great to have the forums feedback on the same.

Regards

I just went for a TD of the new Polo TSI and also Ameo DSG. Found that Polo acceleration was not that great (I remember my 2016 Vento with the same DSG performing much better!). The Ameo was also seemed to perform better with hardly any noticeable turbo lag.

When calculating the exchange value of my top of the line Honda City VX model (2016 REGN with 41km), I was offered 4.5 lacs by the dealer, even though Cars24 and OrangeBookValue are valuing around 7 lacs!

I feel putting money into new cars doesn't make financial sense seeing how quickly these new cars are depreciating - the primary market seems over priced while secondary market seems underpriced. Strangely, after going through OrangeBookValue and a few other sites. I also realised that the Polo TSI has a much better resale value than the Honda City (same year and Odo) even though the OTR of Honda is atleast 2-3 lacs more than the Polo and with much better features and specs. I don't know how to make sense of this! If I sell my Honda City, I can barely afford to buy a second hand Polo!