[jessie007]

Originally Posted by amit_mechengg

Why dont you get a seat fabricated like this, with seat belts. Why would the seat fly? In Pune itself the seat fabricator says he will retain the seat belts. I am mostly doing this mod on my old safari. He has quoted 7-10k for the same.

My father also did a similar setup in his Sumo Grande MkII. Even though the Grande has option of bench seat, it doesn't split - so isn't practical if there are six adults with luggage. He bought a front passenger seat from TASS only and bolted it in place without drilling any holes in the body. The seat belt also can be used. Full details in the following thread:

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-d...-ex-bs4-4.html

[amit_mechengg]

Originally Posted by tsk1979

you make it sound like as if Maruti and Toyota have conspired with some Evil genius doctor to alter the brain chemistry of buyers.
Those cars sell on their reputation. Many people who buy Maruti buy it again because they are satisfied. Some do not.
However with Fiat and Tata most people who buy it once will never buy the brand again. Based on their experience.
After owning a Toyota for 10,000kms I can now understand why would somebody pay so much for a scooter on 4 wheels.
The joy of visiting the workshop only for service is very special.

Did i say anything different than what you said above?

Scooters on 4wheels. This is exactly what they are. But why people buy them, just because they feel joy in visiting their workshop.
For this joy they spend over their overpriced value.

Thats what i explained. Its the reputation thata TATA and FIAT miss. Had it been their cars sold by Maruti ofcourse they would have been sold like anything else.
Reason - They are way better engineered cars than scooters on 4 wheel.

" Do you know who the EVIL Genius doctors are" - Their service centres.

" And the conspiracy" - People buy scooters on wheels due to the above

[tsk1979]

Originally Posted by amit_mechengg

Thats what i explained. Its the reputation thata TATA and FIAT miss. Had it been their cars sold by Maruti ofcourse they would have been sold like anything else.
Reason - They are way better engineered cars than scooters on 4 wheel.

" Do you know who the EVIL Genius doctors are" - Their service centres.

" And the conspiracy" - People buy scooters on wheels due to the above

your post summarizes whats wrong with Auto industry. They are thinking of' "Features" as engineering. Engineering is the core of a car. A car which does not break down now and then is said to be well engineered. However, manufacturers think that adding bluetooth means engineering.

[ajay_satpute]

I have had a super experience with my Tata Vista and there is a high possibility that I would end up buying another Tata product (Storme...). So I come under the rear breed of "satisfied Tata customers".

BTW, has any of the TBHPian booked the Storme anywhere in India? Forget TBHP, I haven't heard from any of my friends/relatives/colleagues regarding someone booking the Storme. That might spell doom for the product, even at such a early stage of life.

[ebonho]

Originally Posted by tsk1979

The joy of visiting the workshop only for service is very special.

I agree. The Baleno has given me that joy over 8 years now. My Std 500 Bulet on the other hand over 10 years has been much more demanding. But I love both and both give me the same level of pleasure in their own way.

There is no reason why a 2WD buyer should look at Storme instead of SUV. It offers nothing over XUV which is a much better value at lower cost.

I read you saying this somewhere else as well, so just for kicks I reached the Mahindra showroom to check the XUV out. I do not know which model you are referring to, but seeing as you are speaking 2x2, I am asuming the W6.

Well the W6 is 1.5 Lacs more on road than the Storme EX (14.5 vs 13) here in Pune. And the way I saw it, the Storme is better built and tougher, bigger on the outside and the inside, and is classier and better looking. And is an SUV, which the W6 is not.

So how is the W6 better value? I cannot think of anything else than the myriad gizmos inside and on the dash.

As for the scorpio, that vehicle has ruggedness proven. Ditto for bolero. They both me be funny looking ancient workhorses, but they are more "reliable".

I'm totally with you on the Bolero bit. I would be seriously looking at it were I in the market for a no nonsense low priced SUV with basic creature comforts. Maybe even 4x4, though honestly my driving needs would not really need such.

The Scorpio may be rugged, tough, with a neat engine. But I sat in the middle row just once Pune-Nashik and back (office work) and that put aid to any aspirations of ever buying one for my family in the foreseeable future.

[rrsteer]

Originally Posted by tsk1979

The joy of visiting the workshop only for service is very special.

That is so very true. I have moved from a Safari to an Innova. The biggest positive for me has been the Toyota Service or in general just interacting with Toyota. More than the Innova, Toyota has floored me, and big time.

[swiftnfurious]

Originally Posted by ajay_satpute

...BTW, has any of the TBHPian booked the Storme anywhere in India? Forget TBHP, I haven't heard from any of my friends/relatives/colleagues regarding someone booking the Storme. That might spell doom for the product, even at such a early stage of life.

I was interacting with one SA and what he said is "People still come & book Safari Dicor. Some of them dont even bother to look at Storme inspite of telling them this is a much better product. They say Safari Dicor has the LOOKS."!

So you know where its going! TATA has a really uphill task!

[amit_mechengg]

Originally Posted by rrsteer

That is so very true. I have moved from a Safari to an Innova. The biggest positive for me has been the Toyota Service or in general just interacting with Toyota. More than the Innova, Toyota has floored me, and big time.

I stay in Pune and i own a Maruti,a VW, a FIAT and a TATA. I had pleasant as well as horrible experiences with them. Many times i complained about rattling issues they laughed at me. I had to hardpress them multiple times for recurring issues.

VW- I had a very good experience with them. But i had to go out of the way to bend them to change the clutch hose pipe which had design fault and VW was never going to agree to it. After i showed them forum posts and photos of changed pipes on Ricky,s Vento they changed the parts.

Fiat - has been a redcarpet experience for me. I have access to CEO, If i complain about some small distant noise from any of the panel they strip open the car, do what not to make sure the noise goes. No problems in honoring the warranty, absolutely no issues.

TATA - for my indica i had to face a lot of problems dealing with these people. Later i caught hold of good service advisors and then the life was cool. For Safari - the same above fiat dealer has a seperate workshop and the team is very good and technically sound to handle all safari problems.

So with all this mixed experiences i am better off buying a car that pleases me, feels fresh day by day, doesnt bore me in heavy traffic, is very comfortable in normal as well as sports mood, than buying a car just for its resale value or what brand it is.

[tsk1979]

Originally Posted by ebonho

I read you saying this somewhere else as well, so just for kicks I reached the Mahindra showroom to check the XUV out. I do not know which model you are referring to, but seeing as you are speaking 2x2, I am asuming the W6.

Well the W6 is 1.5 Lacs more on road than the Storme EX (14.5 vs 13) here in Pune. And the way I saw it, the Storme is better built and tougher, bigger on the outside and the inside, and is classier and better looking. And is an SUV, which the W6 is not.

So how is the W6 better value? I cannot think of anything else than the myriad gizmos inside and on the dash.

I would compare the W6 with the VX version since it comes with Airbags. Only thing lacking is alloys (So add 30K for expensive alloys if you want).
W6 therefore gives better value than the safari VX.
Also remember that the XUV 500 is monoque construction, and weighs less, which will translate to better fuel efficiency. Being a front wheel drive, the drivertrain losses will be less, again, better fuel efficiency. So vehicle to vehicle(if we consider reliability and service the same), it makes for a better buy.
Things like better built and tougher are subjective. All I know that in case of storme the rear seat fell down during hard braking, and parts fell of from glovebox and rear seats. In my books it shows lack of attention to detail and general "chalta hai" attitude on part of the manufacturer.

I'm totally with you on the Bolero bit. I would be seriously looking at it were I in the market for a no nonsense low priced SUV with basic creature comforts. Maybe even 4x4, though honestly my driving needs would not really need such.

The Scorpio may be rugged, tough, with a neat engine. But I sat in the middle row just once Pune-Nashik and back (office work) and that put aid to any aspirations of ever buying one for my family in the foreseeable future.

I have rated the Storme better than the scorpio. It handles better, brakes better, and is overall a better vehicle(assuming reliability and service experience are same, which are not)

[quote=amit_mechengg;3017091 I have access to CEO, If i complain about some small distant noise from any of the panel they strip open the car, do what not to make sure the noise goes. No problems in honoring the warranty, absolutely no issues.[/quote]
Extremely unfortunate when you need access to the CEO for issues. All customers cannot access CEO, can they?

TATA - for my indica i had to face a lot of problems dealing with these people. Later i caught hold of good service advisors and then the life was cool. For Safari - the same above fiat dealer has a seperate workshop and the team is very good and technically sound to handle all safari problems.

So with all this mixed experiences i am better off buying a car that pleases me, feels fresh day by day, doesnt bore me in heavy traffic, is very comfortable in normal as well as sports mood, than buying a car just for its resale value or what brand it is.

The real question you need to ask it, how many of these issues were defects in a new vehicle. Now compare the number of defects found in your Maruti.
Then divide the defects into niggles and major issues.
For example, safari tail gate noise can be called niggle. However, tailgate not opening is a defect.

[Trapezio]

For a change, I would definitely consider a Tata product. The only caveat is that it should be their recent platforms. Thus an Aria is okay while a Safari would have been a no till the Storme came along.

I for one, do not agree with 'more reliability = better engineering' equation. If so a Bajaj RE 2S is possibly better engineered than a good percentage of the cars. (Just an opinion, please feel free to disagree. :-))

[amit_mechengg]

Originally Posted by tsk1979

Extremely unfortunate when you need access to the CEO for issues. All customers cannot access CEO, can they?

The real question you need to ask it, how many of these issues were defects in a new vehicle. Now compare the number of defects found in your Maruti.
Then divide the defects into niggles and major issues.
For example, safari tail gate noise can be called niggle. However, tailgate not opening is a defect.

Well its just a gesture from FIAT for its all customers. Anyone can access him for any question they have.
Please dont conclude that one has to reach CEO for issues. The below chain solves it without any fuss or warranty excuses.

If you see my old threads i had defects in my maruti vehicle. Many have design defect in braking system of the new swift. Many have broken camshafts and blown turbos. We have VW and Skodas burning - but we excuse them right?
For maruti i had to write a 2 page letter to GM and other top brass and then my problem was resolved to my satisfaction.

For my FIAT - touchwood, not a single problem. Squeak - yes from a suspension. They changed both of them in warranty without asking any question. Fiat doesnt even charge for alignment whenever needed.

Tata Safari - Yes i have a noise from my rear tailgate. But on otherside i have no complaints about the capabilities of the vehicle.

Tailgate not opening - Defect
Toyota etios- design problem in door beading, water seeping in + insects = Defect ? Yes/No
Swift - Braking problem = Defect? Yes/No
XUV500 - Engine + gearbox seize, Bush changes every 5k, Alignment issues, Electronics issues, Projectors not working on many cars = Defect? Yes/No
Scorpio - Transmission fail in Leh(our members) = Defect? Yes/No
VW/Skoda - car burning, airbags not deploying = Defect? Yes/No
BMW - So many cars break down on roads = Defect? Yes/No

The general trend is when it comes to TATA, we welcome them with Bricks and bats.
For maruti or other brands we treat it one of case.

[ebonho]

Originally Posted by tsk1979

I would compare the W6 with the VX version since it comes with Airbags.

Agreed. The Storme VX 4x2's direct competitor is the XUV 500 W6.

The Storme VX is 15 Lacs while the XUV 500 is 14.5 Lacs.

But .....

Only thing lacking is alloys (So add 30K for expensive alloys if you want).

Add another 40 odd K for leather seats as well (which the Storme VX has).

The Storme VX also has power foldable ORVMs which the W6 does not - I do not know how much cost to apportion to that (maybe 30K approx.?)

W6 therefore gives better value than the safari VX.

So now the XUV 500 W6 with alloys and leather seats is around 20K more than the Storme VX. + whatever the power foldable ORVMs cost.

Suddenly the W6 comes in on the road at an extra 50K (approx.) over the Storme VX.

The only real additions that the W6 still has over the Storme VX:

Monochromatic 6" Driver Info screen.
"Bending" Projector Lamps.
"Smart" rain sensor Wipers
"Smart" auto dimming headlights

All of the above, IF really needed and deal breakers, can be added to the Storme VX.

I have ZERO idea how much the above 4 features would cost, but taking a safe upper estimate of a lac more, this would bring the Storme VX at 50K net higher in cost overall to the W6 (16 lacs vs 15.5 lacs).

Compared to that, what the Storme VX has which cannot be retro-fitted to the W6 - regardless of cost:

1) Build quality / toughness (ladder frame chassis vs monocoque)

2) Size and space

3) Ride quality / comfort

4) Looks / Image

5) SUV vs Softroader

P.S. 4 and 5 usually to varying degrees morph into one for many buyers.

Taking into consideration all of the above, IF (and I realise this is yet a big IF) the Storme is reliable and does not suffer from its bug-gy heritage, I think the Storme is definitely better value for money than the XUV.

ARAI reports on fuel mileage figures between the two (4x2) differ by 1 kmpl.

Also, I have read (you guys are the experts here and may corroborate) that in the mountains and the rough stuff, a rear wheel driven (push) vehicle actually does better than a front wheel driven (pull) vehicle.

[sachinayak]

Originally Posted by tsk1979

There is no reason why a 2WD buyer should look at Storme instead of SUV.

This could be true, but if so, is only the part truth. Honestly for a sub 10L (ex-showroom SUV) what are the options for a buyer.

- Storme
- Duster
- Scorpio
- Safari 2.2L

Originally Posted by tsk1979

I have rated the Storme better than the scorpio. It handles better, brakes better, and is overall a better vehicle(assuming reliability and service experience are same, which are not)

Guess, as a product, Scorpio is not a match.

After the recent price hikes, the Duster is not even sub 10L. At 10.7L the 110PS RXL does not even offer ABS (if I am not mistaken). The service network is thin and there is no historical proven reputation. Yet this is a huge hit.

I honestly see a definite reason for any one to consider the LX trim. At the higher end, probably there is value elsewhere, but you need to look at the entire spectrum. TML have shown sense in keeping the base version under 10L in most regions.

Further on this topic, while XUV is a fantastic VFM option, it is probably now that it has matured into a possibly stable offering. The issues faced by initial owners were not minor. Will TML be equally responsive? Doubtful.

But cannot just write them off, I guess. Not yet.

[vigneshkumar31]

Hey guys!
safari storme EX UB booked on 14 Jan at Concorde Delhi
Expecting delivery around month end.

[bobbafett]

Mod Note : Please quote ONLY the relevant bits of a post. Quoting an entire long message inconveniences our mobile users

Originally Posted by ebonho

Agreed. The Storme VX 4x2's direct competitor is the XUV 500 W6.

The Storme VX is 15 Lacs while the XUV 500 is 14.5 Lacs.

But .....

The W6 scores over Storme mostly in terms of Safety as well - The W8 won 4 stars in ANCAP and the W6 minus 4 airbags and the ESP is probably 3.5 stars as structurally the vehicle is the same otherwise. The Safari on the other hand has never been crash tested by an independent body and has some inherrent safety disadvantages like its height leading to more body roll and roll over risk and its weight and ladder frame chasis which would result in a worse performance in case of a crash. For all of us enthusiasts of SUVs, most of the usage would be over paved highways (big and small, good and bad surface, etc) and safety is crucial in such a scenario.