[apachelongbow]

Originally Posted by rrsteer

Hi,

Without any intentions of putting one brand down and propagating another one or trying to trigger a war of brands, I want to know why a Safari is besieged with such issues and a competitor like Innova isn't?

You are right. The older Safari was indeed plagued by such issues, especially tailgate rattling, door rattling and the steering misalignment. The current Storme doesn't have any of it (at least mine does not). I believe the rack and pinion steering is a big step forward in correcting the steering alignment and play. In the older Safari, i could actually turn the steering for a turn and the car would turn only after a delay of a second or two.

I am sure the experts on this forum would know the true issue, but I feel Tata made a big mistake taking the Serria or the Estate chassis and steering components and building their SUV on that platform, the basic platform was crude and unstable, and naturally the Safari was saddled with all these problems.

[rrsteer]

Originally Posted by apachelongbow

The older Safari was indeed plagued by such issues, especially tailgate rattling, door rattling I believe the rack and pinion steering is a big step forward in correcting the steering alignment and play.

I had none of the other issues you described, with the earlier cars. Infact, alignment only feels like an issue now - since the Innova demonstrates that a car can go on a straight line on its own. It never was, when I had the Safaris - felt too minuscule an irritant.

But now, when I contemplate the next car (whenever down the line), I want to get a 4wd. Storme is what I want and need too, perhaps. But after experiencing an Innova, I may find thing like misalignment major 'issues' and end up feeling miserable with the product.

By the way, my friend's Storme too is saddled with alignment and premature tyre wear.

[DHABHAR.BEHRAM]

Dear all - the answer is very simple. Finally, its all physics and engineering. If everything is set as per the design specifications, the vehicle will work. The problem in India application is that this is extremely difficult to obtain in the field situation.

Dear Neel - I await the information and the photographs from you.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

[rrsteer]

Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM

Dear all - the answer is very simple. Finally, its all physics and engineering. If everything is set as per the design specifications, the vehicle will work. The problem in India application is that this is extremely difficult to obtain in the field situation.

[

Am I correct in interpreting this as, the entities on the field like suppliers, assembly plants etc are not doing their job. For e.g part suppliers do not ship parts as per specifications and they are accepted by the factory knowing they don't meet the exact specifications?

If yes, why and how another manufacturer is able to mitigate these impediments? Are operating conditions different for such a type of manufacturer? if yes, what are those?

PS: I rented a MYLES Nano. It had 12k on the board and nary a rattle or quirk. And no misalignment what so ever. So its only the big Tata cars that suffer from faulty alignment, in my view.

[amolpol]

Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM

Dear all - the answer is very simple. Finally, its all physics and engineering. If everything is set as per the design specifications, the vehicle will work. The problem in India application is that this is extremely difficult to obtain in the field situation.

Dear Neel - I await the information and the photographs from you.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

Dear BD sir, I couldn't agree more. It's pure physics and engineering and sometimes the lack of it that causes these issues.

1. With my safari, alignment was always difficult but my fortuner drives in a straight line no matter what. And i don't ever baby any of my cars on good or bad roads so driving conditions are same/similar.

2. The interior panels in my safari never aligned properly. I was told "saar it is plastic after all, how can you expect precision fit". When i showed the well fitted interior of the hyundai i10 I owned that time, the excuse was "saar small car it is, thats why it is better fitting"

3. Door squeaked and hinges needed to be tightened in each service. The excuse was "saar tata uses heavy guage panels probably cause they also own tata steel...lol"

Talk about engineering!

[neel385]

Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM

Dear Neel - I await the information and the photographs from you.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

Dear Behram, unfortunately, I live in a place where the nearest alignment facility is 125 kms away which is why the problem is even more frustating. Never the less, I agree with your points and will get back with the desired information at the earliest. The offer for help is much appreciated.

But must add though, the steering issue apart, the Storme is more than what I wanted. Love every moment behind the wheel and kudos to you for that!

Regards,
Neel.

[condor]

Completed 36k just short of the 2 year mark. All is well !

smsrini : In comparison the Innova I own since 2012, ... I was awe struck and marveled at how straight it goes on the road when I leave the steering. And I must tell this is a 90k run Innova.

Like DB sir said, it must be the alignment guys. Sometimes even the guys at TASS arent good enough.

Srini, I have done that on my 7+ year old Sumo Victa that had done 78k. On stock Bridgestone tyres that had run 78k.

[CharlesA]

Dear DB sir, what to do now? factory only did not build as per specification.
Poor users have to now

Regards
Charles

[smsrini]

Originally Posted by condor

Shouldn't be the case.

For alignment outside of TASS, have you checked with Madhu's (Double Road / Langford Road intersection) ? They do it. You can meet Mr Gopal there.

Madhu's will not do caster/camber which requires use of the Shims to correct.

Originally Posted by condor

Completed 36k just short of the 2 year mark. All is well !Like DB sir said, it must be the alignment guys. Sometimes even the guys at TASS arent good enough.

Srini, I have done that on my 7+ year old Sumo Victa that had done 78k. On stock Bridgestone tyres that had run 78k.

Condor, I got the caster/camber adjustment done at TASS - kudlu gate, and things were ok for some time. The list & order of things done are:

- replace all 4 rims
- Wheel balance and alignment
- Adjust Caster/CAmber using Shims.
- Check alignment again at TASS.
- Check alignment at MAdhus again including balancing using the road force balancer.

As long as the idler arm, torsion bar keep their torque, the alignment stays. In 2 to 3 months time, the torque adjustments come loose, and the alignment goes out of whack.

What I'm trying to understand is when a fortuner can retain its alignment, why can the safari not ?

Dabhar sir, will appreciate it if you can help us identify the root cause and fix. As I mentioned, I've taken it to TASS, got the adjustments done, but still end up with alignment problems, all the while driving in the city only.

thanks
Srinivas

[condor]

Originally Posted by smsrini

Madhu's will not do caster/camber which requires use of the Shims to correct.

The Storme does not use Shims.

[saurabh2711]

Dear All,

Going off-topic now ..

Has anyone got any concrete information on the third row seat of the upcoming facelift of Storme, due in Apr or May 2015.
Are they still Jump seats or front facing!! I understand from the leaked brochure that LX ix now only Five seater but all other are Driver+6 (but how!!). Mainly interested in last row. Any guesses please.

Regards,
Saurabh.

[amit_mechengg]

Originally Posted by saurabh2711

Dear All,

Going off-topic now ..

Has anyone got any concrete information on the third row seat of the upcoming facelift of Storme, due in Apr or May 2015.
Are they still Jump seats or front facing!! I understand from the leaked brochure that LX ix now only Five seater but all other are Driver+6 (but how!!). Mainly interested in last row. Any guesses please.

Regards,
Saurabh.

Tata has gone milestones ahead in the disappointment departments. People are asking for 3rd front row facing seats and these guys have removed the only jump seats too from LX model.
The copy pasted the Zest steering wheel but dint dare to do the same with the multimedia touchscreen and have incorporated a harmon but 5 years behind the competition infotainment.
The engine is 150 bhp now but gives us the same 320 nm torque. Who is bothered about the BHP!
They have also upgraded the grill for the namesake. All these took a whooping 18 months. I am wondering what the ERC guys really worked on for 18 months. I am sure they spent the most on holidays.

[rajismine]

Originally Posted by saurabh2711

Dear All,

Going off-topic now ..

Has anyone got any concrete information on the third row seat of the upcoming facelift of Storme, due in Apr or May 2015.
Are they still Jump seats or front facing!! I understand from the leaked brochure that LX ix now only Five seater but all other are Driver+6 (but how!!). Mainly interested in last row. Any guesses please.

Regards,
Saurabh.

Originally Posted by amit_mechengg

Tata has gone milestones ahead in the disappointment departments. People are asking for 3rd front row facing seats and these guys have removed the only jump seats too from LX model.
The copy pasted the Zest steering wheel but dint dare to do the same with the multimedia touchscreen and have incorporated a harmon but 5 years behind the competition infotainment.
The engine is 150 bhp now but gives us the same 320 nm torque. Who is bothered about the BHP!
They have also upgraded the grill for the namesake. All these took a whooping 18 months. I am wondering what the ERC guys really worked on for 18 months. I am sure they spent the most on holidays.

Its not the Torque but also the torque delivery that matters, which now is much better
The Jump seats continue to remain as is - no change there

[amit_mechengg]

Originally Posted by rajismine

Its not the Torque but also the torque delivery that matters, which now is much better
The Jump seats continue to remain as is - no change there

The lx version is now a 5 seater with 15 inch wheels. Only the EX onwards get the jump seats.

[rajismine]

True that - LX will have no jump seats. The rims are 15 inch but tires have higher radius to offset this rim decrease