[amalji]

Originally Posted by tsk1979

LOL. Even I have come to like the engine sound. It sounds so much like a nice tractor. Many times, I accelerate just to hear that engine note.
I was wondering that whether its something wrong with me, that I am actually finding the engine note musical. Looks like I am not the only weird one here

Even I started liking the feel of the engine note. It's not irritatingly loud. Just enough to make you feel involved. :-)

[superutp]

Just had a TD of the top model of the Liva Diesel. Sadly, as it has been said several times, it really doesn't feel like a top end model and looks more like the basic model. Fit and finish could have been better.

Space inside the car was pretty decent. The engine felt average, turbo seems to be linear however, kicks in better above 2-2.5k I think (no tachometer obviously). The engine feels big and heavy (if you get what I mean)

AC didnt feel up to the mark as we needed to switch it to 3. Also, the steering seems to have too many rotations for the same amount of turn. I mentioned this to the SA and he agreed and said it was a feature (I had stopped listening by then)

Overall, felt like a 'jack of all trades' car and as someone said in the previous page they should seriously launch the VxD version of the Liva. Makes more sense and will automatically sell better.

[amalji]

Got a chance to drive the Liva Diesel with the Redrooster spider engine tuning kit fitted. The performance was mind blowing. Redrooster people claimed a torque improvement in the range of 25%. But, I'm waiting for the actual torque curve from them.

The power band certainly felt wider and higher.

Another bonus is that Nippon Toyota has got the dealership for redrooster in Kerala which means redrooster will be sold from Toyota dealership and will be supported in Toyota dealerships ( in Kerala ). Also means, a tuning kit without affecting the warranty of the car.

Next week, I'll be visiting the Enginecal people in Bangalore to check the performance of their tuning kits. They have been playing with it with their own Liva for some time now. So, I'm hopeful of a well tuned tuning box from the enginecal guys as well.

[Chitta Pradhan]

Originally Posted by swiftnfurious

Beat Ds gearing is short. So at highway speeds, the car will be doing high rpms [2500 rpms for 100 kmph?] which result in lower mileage than ARAI FE. I guess Beat D will return seriously good FE if driven at 60 kmph for prolonged duration! I believe I came across some one's report that they are getting 20kmpl+ in City conditions.

What RPM do you think is the most economical for a diesel car on long drives? I think it should be around 1800-2000 rpm. My 6 geared Verna 1.6 CRDI does 100 kmph @ approx 1800 rpm. But some how I feel, I get maximum FE at 80 kmph when the engine spins at around 1500-1600 rpm. Do you think for extracting max. FE we should have an eye on odo & not speedo? Every week end I have a drive of 350 km., thus the query.

Thanks

[thoma]

Originally Posted by Chitta Pradhan

Do you think for extracting max. FE we should have an eye on odo & not speedo? Every week end I have a drive of 350 km., thus the query

Yes, the tacho, not odo.

Going by logic, any engine should give its best FE when driven at the highest possible speed at the lowest possible RPM on the tacho. Clocking more miles with less number of engine rotations translates to better FE, unless you are lugging the engine. This means driving the car at the highest gear at the lowest possible RPM (with no lugging) around the peak torque band should fetch you better FE.

But this is not necessarily practically true on the road. Air and road resistance increases multi-fold as the speed increases. My guess is that if our roads were designed for high speeds, the 6th gear on the Verna might have fetched better FE than the 5th. Further, stoppages in a higher gear means changing the gear to return to that speed, which further lowers the FE.

The key to better FE is to maintain a steady speed with lesser gear shifts, yet being in the right gear (as per traffic and road conditions) without lugging the engine. Avoiding hard braking achieved by anticipated and relaxed driving, being very gentle on the accelerator pedal and the use of engine braking (and coasting in-gear) helps to this cause.

[Buffetfan]

Originally Posted by Chitta Pradhan

What RPM do you think is the most economical for a diesel car on long drives? I think it should be around 1800-2000 rpm. My 6 geared Verna 1.6 CRDI does 100 kmph @ approx 1800 rpm. But some how I feel, I get maximum FE at 80 kmph when the engine spins at around 1500-1600 rpm. Do you think for extracting max. FE we should have an eye on odo & not speedo? Every week end I have a drive of 350 km., thus the query.

Thanks

See if you can maintain that speed. Any higher and the FE drops. See if you can try driving at around 1000-1500 rpm or so - meaning you will get max FE at 35-45 kmph and or so! All the talk of 70- 80 kmph + optimum speeds is US driven as the auto transmissions keep to lower gears below those speeds.

[scooby05]

I have just bought a Preowned Liva GD. Oct '11 done 11000kms, Mumbai registered, white. For Rs. 5.25L
I needed a car for the home run around with new drivers who end up scrapping bumpers of bigger cars. A new Liva front bumper costs 2000 am told.
Please do let me know what are the areas to be addressed? Where in Mumbai can I get some accessories like loose seat covers, bumper corner guards etc.
I found the ride and feel very good, and peppy. All the members complaining of bad plastics, should know that Toyota gives less relevance to these areas. Its dependability that matters.
Can I put in 195-60-15 with alloys. Is the Pcd 100, 4 bolts.

[kutts]

Started looking for a new city drive diesel car after having owned/driven a variety of petrol cars.

Budget - Maximum 6lk (Ex-showroom)
Usage - 1200km monthly (mostly city, slow moving highway traffic)

In the list
Liva - VFM.
Polo - Expensive. Only the Trendline will fit the budget
i20 - Not exactly a Hyundai fan
Figo - Small car looks.
Micra - have a petrol one in the stable, so no duplication of badge
Swift - Ldi version ? Long waiting period. Not decided
Ritz - If only they had a "back lifted" version.
Punto - Long term prospects of Fiat

Did a TD of the 2011 Liva Diesel today. Impressed by the outside looks. Sizable. Gives a "Is it an Innova" look on a first glance at the front.

Opened the door - And I was like

Only now did I understand what fellow BHPians were saying about the quality of the plastic/interiors. The showroom guy was muted on the interiors - but he said that the 2012 version was better. Maybe if you put in about 20K you would be able to spruce it up. Change the seat covers to a beige, change floor mats to beige, change the power window panels to artificial wood finish (12K !!), add bits of chrome on the gear knob and then it might actually look better and even larger. A/C knobs were from a cheap Chinese plastic toy !!! Nothing can be done on that though.

Drive quality was good with 5 average built persons. Engine noise reminded me of an old Qualis - but once again giving the benefit of doubt since the 2012 version has extra dampening. Engine was quite peppy, responsive, but gave a heavy feel to the car. Don't really mind that.

Suspension was impressive. Soft. Drove on a kind of dried up mud road with lot of undulations. Gave an Innova feel. Impressed with that part.

Conclusion - Might actually consider the Liva once I have a chance to see the 2012 interiors.

[autoweirdo]

@kutts - did the SE said any thing about design change?
Hope so they really upgrade the interior plastics.
Its a good plane jane car and as you mentioned there might me more dampening then this could be really good option as d-4d engine is one of the best long termers.

[sydras]

I've been told that Toyota's focus with the Etios/Liva was first to get out a small car for the indian market and then focus on aligning the car with their brand values.

From that point of view, one should definitely expect better interiors, more dampening etc. along the lines of their Corolla and Innova. If they get these factors right in the 2012 version, they could rule the market with their diesel Liva/Etios. A lot of people still have a strong bias for japanese cars and with their established presence in India, they could give nightmares to other brands if they only tried.

[Chitta Pradhan]

Originally Posted by thoma

Yes, the tacho, not odo.

Going by logic, any engine should give its best FE when driven at the highest possible speed at the lowest possible RPM on the tacho. Clocking more miles with less number of engine rotations translates to better FE, unless you are lugging the engine. This means driving the car at the highest gear at the lowest possible RPM (with no lugging) around the peak torque band should fetch you better FE.

But this is not necessarily practically true on the road. Air and road resistance increases multi-fold as the speed increases. My guess is that if our roads were designed for high speeds, the 6th gear on the Verna might have fetched better FE than the 5th. Further, stoppages in a higher gear means changing the gear to return to that speed, which further lowers the FE.

The key to better FE is to maintain a steady speed with lesser gear shifts, yet being in the right gear (as per traffic and road conditions) without lugging the engine. Avoiding hard braking achieved by anticipated and relaxed driving, being very gentle on the accelerator pedal and the use of engine braking (and coasting in-gear) helps to this cause.

Thanks for the reply. Sorry for diverting. I feel my Verna returns max FE at 80 kmph, 6th gear, 1500 rpm which is no where near the peak torque band. Peak torque is around 2000-2200 rpm, which takes the car to 120 kmph but lowers the FE. I have seen Indica taxi drivers drive at 80 kmph, 5th gear, 2000 rpm & say they get max FE at that point. Swifts, Figos etc derive max FE at around 2000 rpm, top gear @ around 80 kmph. If 2000 rpm is most economical for diesel cars, then my car should give max FE @ 2000 rpm- speed around 110 kmph-6th gear. But it does not happen. Wonder why?????

Thanks

[lamborghini]

Originally Posted by scooby05

I have just bought a Preowned Liva GD. Oct '11 done 11000kms, Mumbai registered, white. For Rs. 5.25L
I needed a car for the home run around with new drivers who end up scrapping bumpers of bigger cars. A new Liva front bumper costs 2000 am told.
Please do let me know what are the areas to be addressed? Where in Mumbai can I get some accessories like loose seat covers, bumper corner guards etc.
I found the ride and feel very good, and peppy. All the members complaining of bad plastics, should know that Toyota gives less relevance to these areas. Its dependability that matters.
Can I put in 195-60-15 with alloys. Is the Pcd 100, 4 bolts.

Depending on where you are, do visit milan subway, or opera house and lamington road. There are plenty of auto shops for these little accessories. T-BHP has a seperate T-BHP Directory that could help you out.
Some personal pointers:
- Try to do some sound deadening
- Wider tyres will be interesting. However, I would check be careful about 195-60-R15. Do some more research on the size.
- A louder horn would be a superb touch
- Fog lights at the bottom, but if the bumpers need to be replaced a lot, not worth it in a city like Mumbai

At the moment, contemplating getting fog lights put on our Liva, along with a new and louder horn. But there is a lot of uncertainty with that at the moment, as I am getting tempted by the thoughts of a more powerful diesel/petrol used vehicle

[quadbike]

Has anyone of you installed a tuning box on the Liva ? I was unable to find one in the Pete's website.

[AutoIndian]

Originally Posted by Chitta Pradhan

Thanks for the reply. Sorry for diverting. I feel my Verna returns max FE at 80 kmph, 6th gear, 1500 rpm which is no where near the peak torque band. Peak torque is around 2000-2200 rpm, which takes the car to 120 kmph but lowers the FE. I have seen Indica taxi drivers drive at 80 kmph, 5th gear, 2000 rpm & say they get max FE at that point. Swifts, Figos etc derive max FE at around 2000 rpm, top gear @ around 80 kmph. If 2000 rpm is most economical for diesel cars, then my car should give max FE @ 2000 rpm- speed around 110 kmph-6th gear. But it does not happen. Wonder why?????

Thanks

You are correct & what the Indica, Swift, Figo guys are saying is also true. Your car will return max FE at 80 kmph, 6th gear, 1500 rpm which is no where near the peak torque band. Other cars also return max FE @ 80 kmph, which corresponds to 2000 rpm in them. The air drag/ resistance increases exponentially above 80kmph & the engine has to work harder above that speed. Hence @ 110 kmph, when you are running the engine at peak torque, actually it has to do more work to overcome the increased air resistance, resulting in more fuel consumption. I hope this clarifies the matter.

[abhinav.s]

Originally Posted by quadbike

Has anyone of you installed a tuning box on the Liva ? I was unable to find one in the Pete's website.

You can check fellow owner amalji's thread here

He has reviewed a few tuning boxes and decided to go with EngineCal tuning box. His words specifically about engine cal below:

I visited enginecal. They showed me a moderately tuned Liva ( 185 Nm ). The good thing about enginecal is that they tune it on the go while we drive, and give us exactly what we want. They also brief us about the advantage/disadvantage of going with such a tuning. The problem with spider tuning kit is that it's tuned very aggressively. Smoke comes from the exhaust after a burst to 140 kmph, which I feel is not good for the car and for the co-drivers on the road. So, I've decided to go with enginecal. Will be meeting them this Sunday with my Etios in Bangalore. If anyone else want to join me, let me know.

For info they are also the same people who have performance tuned my Chevy Spark. So i too can vouch for them