[swiftnfurious]

Originally Posted by kedar3223

thanks for the reply sir. agreed that the interiors are a big turn offs. And another think that adds to the confusion is the reduction of petrol prices in my state. Does a usage of around 800km/m justify diesel (what if they remove the subsidies on diesel..arrg)? liva and figo seem to have a generation old engine so i guess I'll be better off with ritz or vista. Am i right in thinking so?

With 800 kms a month, you cannot be BAD with a petrol! On the other hand, diesel will NOT be de-regulated in the current political scenario. As suggested please check on a financial report to see how many years would require for you to break in the extra premium spent on a diesel car. One thing you will need to remember is, as long as the petrol companies increase the costs now, that will get added to the cost in your state too.

Now if you find petrol is OK for your usage, I suggest you look at the Brio or Swift or i10! I would NOT pick a Liva petrol since I have much better choices.

[amalji]

Originally Posted by swiftnfurious

With 800 kms a month, you cannot be BAD with a petrol! On the other hand, diesel will NOT be de-regulated in the current political scenario. As suggested please check on a financial report to see how many years would require for you to break in the extra premium spent on a diesel car. One thing you will need to remember is, as long as the petrol companies increase the costs now, that will get added to the cost in your state too.

Now if you find petrol is OK for your usage, I suggest you look at the Brio or Swift or i10! I would NOT pick a Liva petrol since I have much better choices.

If it's petrol, Ritz is my pick because of that excellent k-series engine, good head room, ergonomics and decent boot space. Brio is not my pick because its boot space is pathetic. If you can live with that, then brio is an option too.

If it's diesel, liva is my pick ( if you don't care about interior looks ). Else, go for Ritz or Figo. The new swift's ergonomics are a failure.

And with 800 kms per month, you are on the border line. Diesel or Petrol should be fine. But, if you plan to keep your car for 7 years, Diesel will surely be more cost effective.

Diesel vs petrol running cost calculation.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...ml#post2499705

Factors missed in the calculation

1. Cost is calculated with the assumption of ready cash. If it's a loan, the break even point would be around 750 kms per month. But that will be lowered as the gap between petrol and diesel widens further.

[rki2007]

Originally Posted by kiku007

Drove the Liva GD for a very small distance and I cannot help but notice the ultra light steering. Should be a boon in the city and perhaps a bane in the highway (Don't know).

The interiors screamed cheap esp the plastics(Did they have TATA as their benchmark to beat?!). The teeny digital display in the central display seemed to be of no use atleast for me.

I do not want to argue or justify my comment . But I really don't think that the interiors quality is very cheap in Tata cars . But at least in manza it is reasonably ok . I also have an i10 and quality of interiors is great but no complaints on manza though .

[kedar3223]

Originally Posted by Ricci

^^ for 800km per month, calculate the running cost of petrol and diesel, add your own estimate of increases in petrol and diesel prices if you will keep the car for long, say 4 years or more ; and compare this difference in running cost over 3 year or 5 year with the price difference in Goa. If 800km is fixed and not bound to increase, petrol makes sense. The difference in price of the diesel Liva vs petrol Liva will likely be met in 3 years (when the savings on running with diesel with cancel the extra cost of buying diesel over petrol Liva ).

Well with my rough calculations including arbitrary increments in cost of petrol and diesel i guess i'll break even in about 5 years. So i guess diesel makes sense for i going to keep the car as a workhorse of more than 5 years atleast.

Originally Posted by swiftnfurious

Now if you find petrol is OK for your usage, I suggest you look at the Brio or Swift or i10! I would NOT pick a Liva petrol since I have much better choices.

oh yes if it were petrol i would have definitely picked between brio and ritz. Have driven brio and its a hoot to drive!

Originally Posted by amalji

If it's diesel, liva is my pick ( if you don't care about interior looks ). Else, go for Ritz or Figo. The new swift's ergonomics are a failure.

Diesel vs petrol running cost calculation.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...ml#post2499705

Factors missed in the calculation

1. Cost is calculated with the assumption of ready cash. If it's a loan, the break even point would be around 750 kms per month. But that will be lowered as the gap between petrol and diesel widens further.

Thanks for the link sir. What were Toyota thinking with their 2k theory? My rough cal point to the fact that i should get a diesel. Will definitely TD liva, figo, ritz and vista and let you'll know. As of now liva makes a strong case for itself in my books.

BTW yesterday after posting my first query went to used car dealer to scout for an alto for a friend. Saw that punto's have real low resale value. Whats the max odo reading a used car can have so that it will last me 7 years flat.

[tsk1979]

I have noticed, that when you hit a pothole, or go slightly fast at a speed breaker such that front suspension travel(elongation) happens, there is a very nasty sound. I am not sure if this is normal, but it has been in the car since day one.
Compression of suspension does not result in any sounds.
Anybody had this jarring feeling/sound?

[lamborghini]

Originally Posted by tsk1979

I have noticed, that when you hit a pothole, or go slightly fast at a speed breaker such that front suspension travel(elongation) happens, there is a very nasty sound. I am not sure if this is normal, but it has been in the car since day one.
Compression of suspension does not result in any sounds.
Anybody had this jarring feeling/sound?

Almost sounds as if the suspension is getting stretched? Like a metallic groan?
If so, I have heard such a sound while going over road undulations at slightly higher speeds. Also, mine seems to be from the rear.

By the way, how is the horn doing? Ours is giving up, and doesn't work very often. Need to get it checked.
That aside, i'm enjoying the space and the engine + FE. Quite decent to drive also with decent grip.

[tsk1979]

Originally Posted by lamborghini

Almost sounds as if the suspension is getting stretched? Like a metallic groan?
If so, I have heard such a sound while going over road undulations at slightly higher speeds. Also, mine seems to be from the rear.

By the way, how is the horn doing? Ours is giving up, and doesn't work very often. Need to get it checked.
That aside, i'm enjoying the space and the engine + FE. Quite decent to drive also with decent grip.

Nope, its more like a "jarring" khat kind of sound.
I guess every Liva has a different form of suspension noise. Will get it checked sometime

[lamborghini]

Possibly.
Will pay attention the next time I drive her and will update. But yours is from the front right? Mine is from the rear, over undulations, when the rear jumps a little. Never had the front jump as yet.

[AWD]

Guess this peculiar suspension noise is a shared feature across a couple of Toyotas. I own a Corolla & have been putting up with suspension noise all along. Once the company changed it but the problem persisted.

The suspension makes noise while going over bumps, potholes & speed-breakers. Almost any imperfection on the road transmits noise & full impact. Its probably the worst ever suspension fitted onto a production vehicle.

Most consumers could not spot the poor suspension because they were over-awed with the big "T". I raised a voice against the short comings, suspension & ABS particularly but "T" did not listen, let alone "T" most consumers never bothered. Same was the case with a missing tacho in Liva but consumers are not interested, their choice...!

[amalji]

Originally Posted by tsk1979

I have noticed, that when you hit a pothole, or go slightly fast at a speed breaker such that front suspension travel(elongation) happens, there is a very nasty sound. I am not sure if this is normal, but it has been in the car since day one.
Compression of suspension does not result in any sounds.
Anybody had this jarring feeling/sound?

Yeah, this is a known bug with the etios suspension. While releasing fast, it hits the stopper. Noticeable when you ride into a sudden dip at high speeds or when you take speed breakers at a moderate speed.

Compression is perfect though. Never bottomed out till now.

That apart, the suspensions do a perfect job. Very comfortable and at the same time, gives decent stability at high speeds as well

[RadiantKarma]

Originally Posted by AWD

Guess this peculiar suspension noise is a shared feature across a couple of Toyotas. I own a Corolla & have been putting up with suspension noise all along.

I had raised this issue with Toyota A.S.S. The Service Engineer claimed that that even the Camry has similar suspension behaviour and there is nothing to worry about. (Anyone has any idea about Innova suspensions?) Worry factor gone, but the sound sure isn't exactly soothing on the ears and nerves. So have gradually learnt to slow down over bumps. One of the reasons why Toyota suspensions last for lakhs of kms?!

[AWD]

Originally Posted by RadiantKarma

I had raised this issue with Toyota. the sound sure isn't exactly soothing on the ears and nerves

Innovas suspension does not make the same noise. I was the first to report the noise problem in Corolla to Toyota but the company refused to acknowledge. Sent numerous representations through Consumer forums but still nothing was done. Then in 2005 Toyota upgraded Corollas suspension, I forced them to carry out the same changes to my car. They did but the problem still persisted.

The Noise is so bad that it sounds like a broken suspension, very-very bad. Ofcourse everthing is fine mechanically but still that noise should not be coming. Also noticed that on very quick acceleration, wheel spin types, the suspension acts weirdly & it seems its not in sync with the car. The tyres seem to move forward first & the body afterwards, its not coeherent. Don't know if I'll be able to explain it correctly but its a sickening noise/feeling.

[amalji]

I've never experienced this till a facebook friend notified me about it. It was a very recent experience. I'm researching more on why it is designed that way. And yes, I'll add to my ownership thread about this symptom soon.

I weigh a car by its positives, negatives and what the competition offers. I don't get into conclusions based on one particular weakness of a car. I don't consider this particular thing as a weakness even because the suspensions of the etios and liva are excellent for that matter and I've mentioned why it is so clearly in my ownership thread.

[tsk1979]

thanks for the updates.

I was worried that my liva has this defect.
But this is really a design issue then. Hitting a stopper and making noise....?

I have not heard this in indica, nor in the indigo, and not in the micra.

[amalji]

Originally Posted by tsk1979

thanks for the updates.

I was worried that my liva has this defect.
But this is really a design issue then. Hitting a stopper and making noise....?

I have not heard this in indica, nor in the indigo, and not in the micra.

Yes, it seems to be a design issue ( unless if Toyota deliberately wanted to prevent something else )

The only other vehicle where I've heard it is on the old model Maruti Zen with low profile tyres. Once, I changed it to higher profile tyres with a lesser diameter rim, the sound went away ( It did happen, but very rarely ). The reason could be that some of the expansion was taken care of by the tyre.