[chennai-indian]

Absolutely agree with GTO that Tata Manza is the best except for its A.S.S and fit and finish. Tata has got the positioning right and the price right - I just do not understand why they still are not up to the mark on their A.S.S and fit and finish (hugely improved F&F I must admit). If only they get their A.S.S right, they can easily double their numbers. Are you listening TATA?

[flyingkolors]

Excellent crisp review. As mentioned it has a 'T' brand, diesel engine, low price and good driveability too for the enthusiasts. This should make some very decent numbers. My only complaint is that the interiors are plain Jane and leaves a lot to be desired for a 7lac+ car. Thin body metal, single reverse lamp, single viper though do the job, but leave a sore thumb.

[W.A.G.7]

Nice review! This car will sell, even though it may be uninspiring. For most of the people who want it as a hassle free daily drive, it should tick all the boxes in the right places. But for those enthusiasts, there will be nothing as bland as this. I only wish they would get rid of that vermilion colour on the seats and the gear knob. And for some reason, I find the center placed speedo console hard to digest. What's wrong with the conventional placement anyway?

[swiftnfurious]

Good review ! Loved the opening shot - Drool maal !

I see that Toyota is charging 45K just for ABS !! Daylight robbery I guess. Maruti was charging just 20-25K for ABS additionally on Swift. And for ABS + Airbags, an additional 1L ? That's over the top !

[Vid6639]

Originally Posted by amalji

Also, on a different topic, @Vid6639, were you able to check the water leaking problems reported by a few Etios Petrol owners ? Did Toyota tell something about the missing rubber gaskets from all the doors. It would have been great, if Toyota provides these gaskets atleast as an accessory at extra cost. If someone from team-bhp could provide this feedback to Toyota, that would be great.

All the Etios' pass through shower tests. The rubber gaskets are not on the doors but on the door frame and are much more thicker. The water leaking issue it seems has to do with front after market speaker installations. Since the Etios doesn't have rear speakers buyers try and cut the rear door and fit speakers. This cutting job results in water leaks.

Originally Posted by theMAG

Nice sensible option. I had thought - when they launched the petrol variants, that the diesel will not be far away - owing to the mass market segment this was targetted for, and that sentiment seemed to be accurate.

How does this compare with the diesels you have driven (Vdi, Figo) in:

1. NVH refinement
2. Drivability

?

Noise is more in the Etios. Vibrations are more in Figo than Swift. The Etios is better than both.

Originally Posted by AutoIndian

Apologies for posting back-to-back messages. I tried to edit my earlier message, but the 30 minutes time limit had expired by then (Mods please merge this with my earlier message if you find it appropriate)

Couple of questions Vid;
1. Did you drive with the AC on? How was the driveability then (I mean pick-up)
2. Were you able to time the 0-100kmph dash (or a ball park figure would also do), just to get an idea, if the light weight EtiosD is able to match others in the sprint?
3. Any timings for in gear acceleration?
4. Were you able to test the car with full load (5 adults + a boot full luggage)? Did the car change its characteristics under loaded condition.
5. Is the AC effective enough to cool the large cabin?

1. Drove with the AC on and my entire review is with AC. Didn't even try without AC.

2 & 3. No timings as this was not an empty stretch of road and I didn't have any timing gear on me.

4. Max I tested was with 3 people.

5. AC was pretty good. Although I did have to crank it up to fan speed 2 for a while. On the drive back home I had to do the same for my Figo.

Originally Posted by bullboy

Thats a good review.
Question.
Are the tires sames as petrol siblings or is it wider?

The tires are the same as the Petrol. 175/65-14(steel wheels) for the G-D and 185/60-15(alloys) for the V-D and VX-D.

Originally Posted by fuel_addict

Did you have a chance to drive the Liva D? Considering its the same engine, the lower kerb weight of the Liva should make it a better performer than the Etios.

Liva D review should be up tomorrow.

Originally Posted by swiftnfurious

Good review ! Loved the opening shot - Drool maal !

I see that Toyota is charging 45K just for ABS !! Daylight robbery I guess. Maruti was charging just 20-25K for ABS additionally on Swift. And for ABS + Airbags, an additional 1L ? That's over the top !

Actually let me fix that sheet. The base G-D variant is 6.44L with no ABS and airbags. The G-D with safety pack is 6.89L. This has both ABS and airbags.

So they are charging 45K for both Airbags and ABS.

The 1L additional compared to the G-D is for the V-D which is fully loaded with alloys, ABS, Airbags, Audio system, chrome bits and better interior shades.

The VX-D adds a DVD compatible audio system, red seats, steering mounted audio controls on a delicious flat bottom steering wheel and externally it sport side skirts.

[Vid6639]

Originally Posted by xingamazon

But one point still concerns me is the fact that manufacturers might launch diesel vehicles even if they are not ready to scale up to demand. This is just to make sure that bookings do not go the competitors way. They take the booking but delivery will happen only post 7 odd months.

I call such launches as token launches. They are ill-prepared launches just to make sure that market booking are acquired. I am slightly bothered Etios diesel may be one of such token launches.
I am sure Diesel will have loads of booking coming its way.

VID: One question from my side:
Do you have any idea if Toyota will be freezing booking (similar to Fortuner) in case if the waiting period goes beyond sane limits? Was there any discussion on this?

You do make a good point but I think Toyota have the Etios Diesel covered pretty well. After the friday launch I have seen an Etios Diesel daily. The started deliveries almost immediately. I haven't heard of large waiting periods as of now and it remains to be seen how they handle it in the future.

Originally Posted by hyd_traveller

I observe that Mahindra Verito is not a competition to these three sedans?
Just wondering whether it is because of its "taxi" tag or for some other reason(s)?

Originally Posted by SinghBHP

Yeah, I am also surprised to see this. Ab objective comparison should have all options for the category. And Verito seems to be a decent option ( - Taxi badge).

I didn't include it not only because of the taxi image but because of dwindling sales. The Dzire and Manza sell close to 5,000 units a month. In comparison the Verito does 1,500. The 1,500 sales are probably mostly due to taxi purchases rather than personal.

I mentioned a couple of points that the Verito is still the benchmark in driveability.

Originally Posted by xingamazon

Vid,
One more question from my side.

Did you also have chance to drive the Liva Diesel? How much of difference is there between the Liva Diesel and Liva Petrol. Are the trims the same a Liva Petrol?

Liva Diesel review will be up tomorrow.

Originally Posted by automachine

Excellent review Vid. By the way I posted in a different thread earlier about my booking of Etios VD on first day of launch on 9th Sept (http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/offici...ml#post2500021). Dealer has told me that they would commit for December delivery date. I hope I would get the car earlier so that I can be the first one to write up an ownership review!. I do have few questions though.

1) Does the NVH level at higher RPM gets too annoying? And is there any need for aftermarket vibration damping like dynamat etc?
2) Are the stock tyres good at controlling road noise? This was one of the issue in the petrol etios.
3) How is the highway cruising compared to say SX4 diesel or Manza?

1. Diesel clatter at higher rpm's gets very annoying in the cabin and I don't think dynamat will solve it. I'm sure that once the engine is run in for 5-6,000 kms the NVH levels will reduce substantially.

2. The stock tyres are Bridgestones and are pretty decent. The noise in the Petrol Etios was more due to the lack of underbody coating which has been addressed in the Diesel as well as Petrol now by Toyota.

3. Highway cruising is pretty good on the highway. SX4, Manza and ETios all have very decent cruising ability with not much of vertical motion. The SX4 is a bit more fun to drive whereas the Manza is heavier so doesn't like to be thrown around. The Etios has the best balance between the 3.

Originally Posted by vasanthn21

Very nice review Vid!

If the beading issue is fixed (rainwater coming in), many can blindly go for this. Any news if this is fixed? If yes, is it being fixed on the petrol version too?

The beading issue was never there. All cars are subjected to shower test before they leave the plant.

The rubber beadings are not on the doors but on the door frams and are much more thicker. The water leaking issue seems to do with after market speaker installations. Since the Etios doesn't have rear speakers buyers try and cut the rear door and fit speakers. This cutting job results in water leaks.

Originally Posted by dkaile

All Toyota diesels sound 'truckish' and this is no different. But their engines last. I also feel that people should drive these diesels before commenting on lack of power as seen on paper. The Altis Diesel is superb to drive on road and the supposed 'lack of turbo' was never felt by me. Toyota design their vehicles fantastically with the particular market in mind.

Actually the Altis and Etios diesels don't sound truckish at all. Only Fortuner and Innova have the truckish diesel engines.

The diesel noise is not as well controlled in the Etios compared to the Altis.

[KPS]

Whilst going through Vid6639 official new car review on the Etios/Liva diesel one saw the following comments, namely

What you won't:
• NVH levels are very high in the cabin above 3,000 rpm

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/offici...ve-review.html

Going further down were his comments with picture
The exhaust system is rather strange. There’s an expansion chamber, but no end can to speak of:


Clearly there is no muffler at the end of the exhaust system. Could this be the reason for the high NVH levels inside the car? Attached below is the wikipedia link on what is a Muffler
Muffler - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

My question arises as it appears that Toyota opted out of the muffler to save costs. With constant complaints on the high NVH in the Etios should Toyota start fitting mufflers to the exhaust system?

Cheers

KPS

[sudarshansarma]

I cant believe people are willing to overlook quality issues and styling just because the Etios is a toyota. I mean, quality is what built the toyota name and they are actually overlooking that?! And people are being properly fooled as well!

[vasanthn21]

Originally Posted by Vid6639

The beading issue was never there. All cars are subjected to shower test before they leave the plant.

The rubber beadings are not on the doors but on the door frams and are much more thicker. The water leaking issue seems to do with after market speaker installations. Since the Etios doesn't have rear speakers buyers try and cut the rear door and fit speakers. This cutting job results in water leaks.

This is really good news. But, on many forums I have seen this issue reported. Why is nobody (or Toyota) clarifying this. Based on what I heard, this was a major reason people were hesitant to buy Etios/Liva!

[rajneeesh]

Vid a questyion for you. You have compared the Etios Diesel with the Manza and the Dzire.

However, given the higher pricing of the car how does it fare vis a vis the Fiesta classic or the SX4 diesel.

Tata Manza sure seems to be the most compelling choice. TM needs to put the shoulder to the wheel with respect to interior fix and finish and after sales service and it should have a winner on its hands.

[Vid6639]

Originally Posted by rajneeesh

Vid a questyion for you. You have compared the Etios Diesel with the Manza and the Dzire.

However, given the higher pricing of the car how does it fare vis a vis the Fiesta classic or the SX4 diesel.

Tata Manza sure seems to be the most compelling choice. TM needs to put the shoulder to the wheel with respect to interior fix and finish and after sales service and it should have a winner on its hands.

Very interesting question and very pertinent. The Fiesta classic and the SX4 are really good cars albeit priced a little more than the Etios, Manza and Dzire.

The SX4 VDi costs 7.79L ex-Delhi and the ZDi costs 8.67L ex-Delhi.

The Fiesta Classic CLXi costs 6.98L and SXi costs 8.19L ex-Delhi.

The top end variant of the Etios is 7.87L which means 80K lesser than the SX4 ZDi and 32K lesser than the Fiesta.

Between the Etios and Fiesta Classic I would opt for the Etios only because it is a newer product and the SXi is actually more comparable to the 7.4L V-D Etios variant therefore difference is more like 80K.

The Sx4 is much more expensive but if you can stretch your budget, that is the car to go for. The 1.3DDiS engine with 90BHP in the SX4 is a much better performer and the car is much more fun to drive.

[Buffetfan]

Originally Posted by amalji

I don't get that point. Diesel Engines are not meant to be revved. Diesel engines are good when driven in their torque band. For revving, petrol engines are always the best bet. And the Etios does have more than adequate torque from 1800 till 3000 ( as GTO rightly told, where people, especially what the segment demands drive their car 99% of the time )


Also attaching the Etios Diesel's Torque Curve ( Courtesy - Toyota Website )

The torque curve looks exciting providing more than adequate torque from very low rpm range. No wonder why the reviewers found the engine very driveable.

This is the Etios Curve ?



I somehow expected that the torque curve should be flatter for a diesel. This is a pretty peaky curve for a Toyota. For comparison - see the torque curve of Innova though the "truckish sound" I guess comes free with the lugging ability. The right one is the Diesel Innova. As flat as the Panchgani tabletop! In fact the usable power band is very wide even with a lower 4400 rpm rev limiter.

[mohan41]

Originally Posted by Vid6639

The Sx4 is much more expensive but if you can stretch your budget, that is the car to go for. The 1.3DDiS engine with 90BHP in the SX4 is a much better performer and the car is much more fun to drive.

Vid: Thank you for the very useful review and clarifications. Between SX4 and Etios, which car has better driveability for city driving?

[mohandas]

^^^
This has to be Etios Diesel. This has negligible turbo tag (see Vid 1st post) and the power band starts early. On the other hand, 1.3 VGT DDiS has pronounced turbo lag and the power band is in the mid range. IMO, Etios is good for city driving and very sedate highway driving. But, if you want to have fun on the highway, SX4 takes the cake. I am sure, SX4 DDiS requires lots of gear change on city driving.

[suhaas307]

The Etios is a good car, with a great chassis, and a very good diesel engine, let down by the quality of the interior and the lack of features. Toyota needs to change all this, by providing it with a decent list of features. India is a price sensitive market, and people are driven by various things like FE and features/equipment. The i20 is a great example.

With Toyota's good after-sales-service and decent core ingredients, they have a potential winner. Unfortunately, it will only remain potential, if Toyota doesn't fix the issues.