[Latheesh]

Originally Posted by Urban_Nomad

Looks - (subjective but.......) the Swift takes it.

Stock Liva looks much better than stock Swift especially blue colour one. Nice wide shoes and alloys takes swift to next level - no comparison there-.

[Reinhard]

Originally Posted by Urban_Nomad

Comparing the "little one" from Toyota agaist the market leader (swift, what else), I simply cannot see what this car has to offer:

Looks - (subjective but.......) the Swift takes it.
Engine performance - Swift
FE - cannot comment, but they both should not be too far apart in a real world.
Diesel option - Swift
Handling / sporty-ish feel - Swift (basis GTO's comments)
A$$ - no contest, Swift again

The only plus I see for the liva is:

Toyota brand - but, it is being touted as the "cheapest Toyota ever built". This statement, IMO takes that "snob / badge value" out of the equation.
Space - Its quite clear Etios is the winner here. But if this were the "make it or break it" parameter, Indica Vista should have been the market leader, no questions asked.

I have my doubts it will sell. Initially maybe, but I doubt that the petrol Liva alone will stand its ground for a long time.

And lets not forget, the new Swift is just around the corner too.

Urban Nomad,

You are quite spot on there, on all comments! Except that I'm a bit skeptical about the new Swift. Getting a bit OT here, sorry for that. But the new Swift, isn't radically different than the current one. Its a little larger, with subtle cosmetic changes that undoubtedly make it better than the current one. BUT, the timing is a bit tricky. Its a thumb rule, that the newer Swift (any car) would have to be costlier than the current one. Now pair that with the already sky rocketing petrol prices, and looming hikes in the taxes / insurance premiums of Diesel cars (just ways to fool us) and we have a shaky situation. I can't imagine what will MSIL do with the Swift really.

Having said that, I still agree with you and don't see what Toyota aspire with the Liva. They've kind of lost the plot to be honest. There had to be at least 1 point where the Liva was an outright winner. Each car has something unique and important.

Swift - the adrenaline rush
Vista - the business class space
Indica eV2 - outright pocket friend
Ritz - Spacious Swift, what else would one want!
Punto - one cant imagine a beautiful car than Punto. However subjective the looks are, I still don't know anyone who hates the Punto. handling to add.
Figo - all round VFM, no turbolag
i20 - premium feel
U-Va - quality & chevy 3 year cover
Polo - Typical VW. No fuss and classy EU styling.
(Just 1-2 points per car. There are dozens of drawbacks of each. not mentioning them.)

Can anyone find at least 1 feature in the Liva and the Nissan Micra, which is UNIQUE? An outright winner? The Toyota & Nissan logos and the insane chrome plates that they are sticking everywhere, are no deal makers for me at least. There is nothing I can find which is Unique to these two cars.
The 2 are not even making attempts to hide the cost cutting measures. Toyota and Nissan are getting a bit over-confident with their so called "Brand Factor" in India it seems. They must remember the Maruti example. Even the #1 Maruti brand failed to sell Baleno, AStar, Versa.

On the looks front, I was actually stunned to see GTO liking the Liva's looks. Toyota IMHO makes the dumbest looking cars, all over the world. They may be the most technologically advanced, fuel efficient etc. but looks are appalling for the asking price generally, when compared to similarly priced competitors.

As always, no offense meant. Just put forth my opinion which I have no guarantee of being right either! Happiest unlimited miles to existing and prospective Liva owners also.

[GTO]

Originally Posted by Reinhard

On the looks front, I was actually stunned to see GTO liking the Liva's looks.

I'm a lover of clean, proportionate designs. For instance, give me the Lancer over the Cedia, Vento over the Fluidic or W124 over the current E Class anyday. Neither do I like designs that are too funky & modern (e.g. Beat).

[Daewood]

^^
Liva isn't exactly a proportionate or balanced design.
It has abruptly ending lines and awkward projections, like it's brother Etios sedan.

[fast&furious]

Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder man! IMHO, Figo is one of the ugliest out there. But that doesn't mean that it's ugly in the eyes of someone else. Now something about the Etios (twins). They say it's made for India but I don't think they are! I will cover all the issues in my ownership report.

Originally Posted by Reinhard

(Just 1-2 points per car. There are dozens of drawbacks of each. not mentioning them.)Can anyone find at least 1 feature in the Liva and the Nissan Micra, which is UNIQUE? An outright winner?

I think the answer is in the statement itself.You wont see those dozens of drawbacks in a Toyota (I don't know much about Nissan). By the way, I like that push start feature in the Micra.Just push it and the car decides how long the crank should be!
And the most important feature in a car is its engine. Now compare the one in the Toyota with the ones in the others. I'm not saying that Toyota or Nissan is light years ahead but the engines are generally very reliable unlike many others you listed above.What I'm trying to say is that every car has its own positives and negatives.Different people have different needs.
No offense meant.

I too feel that Liva is a huge disappointment in many ways.I would pick a Swift or a Figo over it any day because overall they're better.But I don't think that it looses its value just because it's the cheapest Toyota ever built. Nobody is gonna laugh at a Liva owner saying "hahaha look at him driving the cheapest Toyota ever built".

[thesilentone]

Just like GTO, I also like cars with clean lines. I am not too impressed with the new Verna and I just hate the Beat (sorry Beat owners). Some angles of the Beat look as though the car has been bashed and the oogles of chrome and funkiness is too much to digest. Instead of looking good with all the make-up like a cine artist, the basic flow of the design should have the class and very few have them.

[Urban_Nomad]

Originally Posted by Latheesh

Stock Liva looks much better than stock Swift especially blue colour one. Nice wide shoes and alloys takes swift to next level - no comparison there-.

Here's the thing. We have not (or at least I have not) seen the Liva in the flesh. Also, try imagining the Liva sans the body kit. Ultra plain jane IMO. Even the stock Swift zxi with the OEM rubber and 14" wheels would look much better than the Liva.

Sorry for the rant.

Originally Posted by GTO

I'm a lover of clean, proportionate designs. For instance, give me the Lancer over the Cedia, Vento over the Fluidic or W124 over the current E Class anyday. Neither do I like designs that are too funky & modern (e.g. Beat).

The design actually is a bit boxy and like many others commented, "much like a big Alto". Also, the chrome treatment on the Liva is ot at all tasteful. Almost blotchy (example - door handles).

Originally Posted by Daewood

^^
Liva isn't exactly a proportionate or balanced design.
It has abruptly ending lines and awkward projections, like it's brother Etios sedan.

+1

Originally Posted by fast&furious

But I don't think that it looses its value just because it's the cheapest Toyota ever built. Nobody is gonna laugh at a Liva owner saying "hahaha look at him driving the cheapest Toyota ever built".

Even tody, nobody would "laugh" at anyone driving even an Alto or the Nano (the cheapest car - period). That is not the point. Toyota carries with itself a badge (a la honda) value which kinda gets played down with the association with the word "cheap". Not "VFM" or "cost effective" but just plain "cheap". What is worse is that the Liva looks the part (ie cheap) too, be it interiors or exteriors. A car like Swift, even after all these years appeals to both heart and head. I doubt this feeble attempt from Toyota would make Suzuki flinch.

Originally Posted by Reinhard

But the new Swift, isn't radically different than the current one.

Maybe, maybe not . Going by the pics, I LOVE the subtle changes that have been made, especially the jaguar-ish effect on the tail lamp. Pricing will obviously play an important role. But Suzuki being Suzuki, knows the Indian market pretty well IMO and will not let their segment leading car fail. Irrespective, this offering from Toyota in its present avatar is not what will give Maruti sleepless nights, now or later. A well priced diesel might change the game though.

[fast&furious]

Originally Posted by Urban_Nomad

Even tody, nobody would "laugh" at anyone driving even an Alto or the Nano (the cheapest car - period). That is not the point. Toyota carries with itself a badge (a la honda) value which kinda gets played down with the association with the word "cheap". Not "VFM" or "cost effective" but just plain "cheap".

I don't know how many people in India consider Toyota as a cheap brand.I haven't seen anyone yet.How can a 'cheap' car maker become the no.1 in the world?I don't think even the Europeans consider Toyota as a 'cheap car' maker these days. I'm not comparing it with the VWs and Mercs and BMWs and Audis.They belong to a different segment where money is not an issue.So in such conditions technological advancement is quite natural.I don't think aam admi in India is ready for such cars. As somebody pointed out somewhere, Toyota is trying to get more customers in India.I think they did a good job with the Etios.But I don't know about Liva.I've seen it and I don't think it can beat the Swift.It looked a little i10ish to me.

[Urban_Nomad]

Originally Posted by fast&furious

I don't know how many people in India consider Toyota as a cheap brand.I haven't seen anyone yet.How can a 'cheap' car maker become the no.1 in the world?I don't think even the Europeans consider Toyota as a 'cheap car' maker these days. I'm not comparing it with the VWs and Mercs and BMWs and Audis.They belong to a different segment where money is not an issue.So in such conditions technological advancement is quite natural.I don't think aam admi in India is ready for such cars. As somebody pointed out somewhere, Toyota is trying to get more customers in India.

Just consider this line from GTO in his review:

"I must add that the Liva is the cheapest Toyota on sale anywhere in the world, period. Unfortunately, there's no hiding that fact if you spend some time with the car."

I never said that "Toyota" itself is a brand associated with cheapness (quite the contrary actually), but this particular car definitely is. So the badge value that a Toyota inherently carries, gets toned down to almost zilch when the product on offer screams CHEAP. Plus, I for one cannot see one outright redeeming feature for this vehichle (Eg - Etios' engine is the best in class) that underplays this so very evident ........... er....... cheapness(??) .

Hope this clarifies.

[pgsagar]

Great review GTO. Very detailed. But can't say the same about the car. Liva, just like Etios, looks too boring. Not ugly, but not attarctive at all. Too conventional and plain jane. With those plain looks and petrol-only engine, it may not exactly set the sales charts afire. Toyota badge is not enough to guarantee success. Toyota Cororlla Diesel hasn't made any mark in the market at all, in spite of that badge and a diesel engine.

But yes, Liva may affect i10. Both are petrol-only and nearly similarly priced.

[fast&furious]

@Urban_Nomad
Yeah I too feel that Toyota's badge tactic(if there's any)wont work this time.And it definitely looks a bit cheap.I think the game would have changed had they fitted that 1.5l engine into this one.

[fuel_addict]

Originally Posted by fast&furious

@Urban_Nomad
Yeah I too feel that Toyota's badge tactic(if there's any)wont work this time.And it definitely looks a bit cheap.I think the game would have changed had they fitted that 1.5l engine into this one.

The real test of the Liva would be once the new Swift is launched next month. The diesel engine option in Swift is a big advantage for Maruti.

[anu21v]

Originally Posted by pgsagar

But yes, Liva may affect i10. Both are petrol-only and nearly similarly priced.

Not true I think, i10 on actual starting pbuying price after discounts can start at as low as 2.99 Lakh whereas the Liva starts at 3.99 L. Looking at the size and above swift positioning its clear it will have to fight for honors with Swift, Polo, Micra, and Punto.

[ACM]

GTO superb review,

Checked out one.

1) Actually liked the looks - looks much better than the Etios - especially with the skirting kit on the top model.

2) Cost cutting in the interiors visible.

3) A good buy but the power and cost cutting is a deterant vs the i20, and the polo and i20 interiors seems to be so much better.

4) A very sensible buy, but not an exciting drive.

5) Should sell very very well, India loves sensible cars. Does Toyota have even half the required capacity?

Oh for some excitement in the drive, or an AT perhaps. The i20 and Polo feel more fun overall, and the new Swift will be the one to handle for all of them.

[man_and_machine]

car buying in this segment always has a domino effect, the first car this is bought creates confidence in the next buyer. This segment is totally concerned with "is my *hard* earned money worth it". People buying in this segment will feel more comfortable when they see more of these on the roads (unlike segment like D or D+) where the lesser on the road the better the feeling :-) . This is what happened to swift a few years ago. The design was radical (then!), it was slow to start but when it did, it was a domino which was not stopped even now! that did not happen with the Ritz (which still has the same radical design, but lesser on road means more less will sell).

What is crucial is the momentum.

What does the Liva have to be able to achieve that? No diesel, well lot of petrol cars get sold in this segment (that is why cars like i10 are still selling in large numbers). That is not a big deterrent. Quality (drive and cost of ownership) and resale matter the most in this segment, quality directly means feel of the car and maintenance costs. If Toyota is able to maintain their Q right here it will sell.

There needs to be clear differentiator of this car against others!

For swift its the looks + (old) peppy engine and the Q + Maruthi's network
For i10 its the price and the Q
For Polo its the brand + Diesel
For the Liva its (in my view) Q + Space + price + the feeling that now you too can afford a Toyota.

Its a wait and watch, but I am positive about the car, I see a lot of Etios (sedan) on the Roads ! is it time for the smaller one to show the tricks!!!