[Dry Ice]

[quote=AnchoriteX;2189487]External pics didn't work in the previous posts. So here they are once again.quote]
Congrats on the bike!!
Please loose the typeR, doesn't go well. Just my honest opinion.

Originally Posted by Geo

Does anyone care to compile a list of features/utilities that you miss when you go for an Avenger?

And does Avenger have a fuel level indicator?

Yes, Avenger comes with a fuel level indicator, and with the 220, a low battery indicator as well.

Things I miss:

1. Tubeless Tyres, haven't found an aftermarket solution too yet!
2. Tacho (just a good-to-have kinda thing)
3. Handle lock/ignition socket -- same/Integrated, like other bikes.
4. Digital trip meter (anyone can flick a little lever by the speedos side and there goes all your calculation!)

That would be pretty much it. Hunt is on for rectifying 1 and rest I have learnt to live with!

One more thing: When you ride in the noon, the tank console, reflects the sun right on your face!

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by hkrish

Fazer Vs Avenger:
I think both are for different segments right. Avenger is a cruiser type, while fazer or other is a sports bike type, where you lean forward.
And when you lean forward (in sports style), the weight is transferred to shoulders and arms, this cause discomfort/pain in the hands/shoulders in sports bike. Also its quite common that pulsar bikes cause some kind off back-pain as you are not ergonomically placed.

Got to drive Fazer recently, and its a very different stance compared to Pulsar. Doesnt really put weight on the shoulders. I can stress it, because i got to ride 220 and Fazer back-to-back.

Originally Posted by jkdas

Should be 140/90 since its R15.

Any other changes required? Or is it a direct fit?

Originally Posted by Dry Ice

Please loose the typeR, doesn't go well. Just my honest opinion.

+ 1. Nice bike, but the type R logo seems out of place on that tank!

[AnchoriteX]

I am not exactly fond of the sticker either. But it covers a malicious scratch. Will remove it when I get the tank repainted.
I was actually showcasing the wash/Polish/Wax job I'd done. The phots don't do it justice. It was looking like a mirror.

[manishalive]

Originally Posted by hkrish

Hi
I skid from my bike and had an accident.
Avenger (or any bike with front disk-brake, and rear-drum brake) skidding is a lot common.

But it is more so in case of Avenger, due to the physics /dynamics of the bike.

2. Fazer Vs Avenger:
And when you lean forward (in sports style), the weight is transferred to shoulders and arms, this cause discomfort/pain in the hands/shoulders in sports bike. Also its quite common that pulsar bikes cause some kind off back-pain as you are not ergonomically placed.

As far as Ergonomics / Science is concerned, you are right about the weight transferred on shoulders, however your observation about the Pulsar is not true.

3. Driving comfort:
A cruiser bike like avenger or more accurately harley davidson/royal enfield TBTS, will make you sit erect there by i have not heard of anyone having back-pain.
I have a sensitive back, and yes avenger is super smooth on clean roads and little tough on rough roads. This im planning to tackle by changing the handle-bar to curvy-handle bar from royal-enfield-TBTS or enticer, which makes my shoulder more relaxed. Will let you know once the mods are done.

Again you are slightly wrong, an upright seating position will throw all the loads on to your back (unlike the pulsar where the weight is transferred to hands via shoulders) and none will get transferred to the hands / shoulders. This will sure cause discomfort. When I first bought the bike I had huge discomfort but the got used to it in few months again when I started to carry laptop along I had discomfort for the first month.

5. Regarding skidding...
Please see the safe-driving threads in team-bhp and other forums.
Please buy the riding gears (gloves/armoured jacket) from cramster/DSG/Fox..etc,. My knee injury would have been avoided, if i had those riding gears...(more update on this later...)

I agree on the riding gear and safe driving, but the point in discussion is inherent defect in the bike which causes us to fall more often.

Originally Posted by hkrish

@jkdas: Does adding 140 tyres help you from not skidding ?
If im right skidding happens when i use front brake alone (disk brake lock up) and forget to use the rear brakes in case of emergency braking.

That is what I also asked; a 140-section rear will not prevent you from skidding. And about the tyre pressure thing, yes over inflated tires will be more prone to skidding, but then they will be less prone to puncture.

Hi,
My ortho said, rested shoulders is very important for long-term pain-free rdie.

Yes very very correct, not only while driving but also while sitting and working on computers. I had an ergonomics class done for the same. To over come the same I lowered the handle bar, which lowered down my shoulders, way comfortable. Downside was rear view mirrors went out of focus. Which is much worse problem in Bangalore traffic. I think You lower the handle bars till your shoulders are resting naturally and then modify / bend the rods of mirror to focus them.

a. Is this is a safer change/mods to make.
Mechanic says disk-brake cable from TBTS will fit and will work fine, no issues
b. Disc brake cable he says is around 1000 Rs Is it that much any idea ? Will i be devoid of warranty.

Any mod will devoid you of the warranty (my earlier solution will not let you loose warranty). Fitting the Disc brake hydraulic pipe out of Bullet will work just fine.
The main problem with changing the handle bars is you have to look out for replacement cable, as the OEM ones are just the right length with no leeway.
I think you bring the handle down and modify the mirrors that will be much more effective and easy one to do. Another thing you can do is to Install Pulsar 180’s rear shocks which are gas charged and should give you a comfier ride.

P.S. I am trying to mod my bike on the looks and on the safeties. I will update on that soon.

[jkdas]

[quote=Dry Ice;2191928]

Originally Posted by AnchoriteX

External pics didn't work in the previous posts. So here they are once again.quote]
Congrats on the bike!!
Please loose the typeR, doesn't go well. Just my honest opinion.



Yes, Avenger comes with a fuel level indicator, and with the 220, a low battery indicator as well.

Things I miss:

1. Tubeless Tyres, haven't found an aftermarket solution too yet! //

IIRC, mine are tubeless.

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

Got to drive Fazer recently, and its a very different stance compared to Pulsar. Doesnt really put weight on the shoulders. I can stress it, because i got to ride 220 and Fazer back-to-back.

Any other changes required? Or is it a direct fit?

+ 1. Nice bike, but the type R logo seems out of place on that tank!

Plug and play

[Abhishekjp]

My 5 year old avengers rear suspension doesn't seem to work at all..My wife feels bad disconfort while riding as pillon.. Is changing the shecks is the only solution to this ? Servise guyes seem hopeless i dont want to rely on them for anything. Does anyone have an idea as to how much the rear shocks cost ??

[AnchoriteX]

Update - I filed an Insurance claim regarding the malicious scratches and got a new tank. Stickers gone....Bike looks Pristine.

As far as skidding goes, I have encountered it a couple of times when the service center over inflated the tyres to give me "Better Mileage". Thankfully, catching a skid on a bike as stable as the Avenger is not too difficult.

The thing about bikes is that there is a weight transfer to the front as soon as brakes are applied. The faster you are, the more abrupt the weight transfer. Now, if you re applying the rear brakes, the weight transfer reduces the pressure on the rear wheels. Less pressure = less friction = Skid. So the rear brakes should only be touched at very low speeds and never hard enough to lock wheels. Ideal braking would involve keeping the bike in a straight line and applying only front brakes - squeezing gently at first to get the weight transfer and the tyres to bite and then then as hard as required. The rear brakes can be used for the last couple of yards. (All this gets over in a couple of seconds in case of emergencies)
Which brings me training for hard braking scenarios. hard braking properly (As described above) and swerving are pretty much the two must vital skills any biker should posses. At any speed in the region of 80k and above, swerving (If there's room) should always be preferred to hard braking. Swerving involves counter steering and needs to be actively practised so that you don't freeze in an emergency.
I have had to bring the bike down from 100 to 0 in a very short diatance in Palm Beach Road. It was scary but there was no skid. I am glad I had been practising for such an eventuality for a long time now.

Word of Advice: Learn to lean and swerve and practise it whenever you can. Practise hard braking every now and then untill it becomes second nature to brake the right way. It'll extend your life expectancy.

[rajushank84]

Originally Posted by AnchoriteX

Update - I filed an Insurance claim regarding the malicious scratches and got a new tank. Stickers gone....Bike looks Pristine.

As far as skidding goes, I have encountered it a couple of times when the service center over inflated the tyres to give me "Better Mileage". Thankfully, catching a skid on a bike as stable as the Avenger is not too difficult.

The thing about bikes is that there is a weight transfer to the front as soon as brakes are applied. The faster you are, the more abrupt the weight transfer. Now, if you re applying the rear brakes, the weight transfer reduces the pressure on the rear wheels. Less pressure = less friction = Skid. So the rear brakes should only be touched at very low speeds and never hard enough to lock wheels. Ideal braking would involve keeping the bike in a straight line and applying only front brakes - squeezing gently at first to get the weight transfer and the tyres to bite and then then as hard as required. The rear brakes can be used for the last couple of yards. (All this gets over in a couple of seconds in case of emergencies)
Which brings me training for hard braking scenarios. hard braking properly (As described above) and swerving are pretty much the two must vital skills any biker should posses. At any speed in the region of 80k and above, swerving (If there's room) should always be preferred to hard braking. Swerving involves counter steering and needs to be actively practised so that you don't freeze in an emergency.
I have had to bring the bike down from 100 to 0 in a very short diatance in Palm Beach Road. It was scary but there was no skid. I am glad I had been practising for such an eventuality for a long time now.

Word of Advice: Learn to lean and swerve and practise it whenever you can. Practise hard braking every now and then untill it becomes second nature to brake the right way. It'll extend your life expectancy.

Wow, thanks for the insightful post sir!

I got to ride an Avanger today. Loved the solid and low-center-of-gravity feel. And of course the comfortable seat.

I felt the bike is a little cumbersome to turn. I'm not new to heavy bikes, I used to ride a Bullet and still ride my friend's Bullet sometimes. But the heaviness in Avenger's handlebar seemed a little odd. Is it something to get used to, or a genuine disadvantage in the bike - say, in high-speed handling?

[AnchoriteX]

I felt the bike is a little cumbersome to turn.

You are right. Because of the longer wheelbase, the turning radius is much larger. I can't explain the heaviness in the handlebar because I have not noticed it myself.

.........or a genuine disadvantage in the bike - say, in high-speed handling?

The bike handles quite okay at high speeds. But you really need to lean for the fast sweeping turns. Try it. It feels really stable.

[manishalive]

Longer wheel base has got nothing to do with turning circle radius, It is the steering rake angle that decides on the tuning circle radius. Look at Enfield Bullet.

Please read through the following articles to know more of vehichle (motorcycle) dynamics.

Bicycle and motorcycle dynamics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

ChopperWeb.info - - Rake and Trail 101

Overinflating will leave us with a lesser contact patch and thus more chances of skidding and lesser chances of puncture.

I do agree that under braking there is a weight transfer to the front, but in no case there is a rear skid that takes place, it is always the front.

Also can you explain more on your logic for front only braking. As far as standard practice never ever apply the front brake alone, it is a reciepe for disaster. Both brakes have to be applied in conjunction, rear one applied earlier is the better and recommended.

The skidding is worsened if there is loose mud or sand on the road

[AnchoriteX]

Longer wheel base has got nothing to do with turning circle radius, It is the steering rake angle that decides on the tuning circle radius. Look at Enfield Bullet.

Actually it does. The steering rake angle, among other things, also affects the distance between the wheels. There is no point in splitting hairs.

Overinflating will leave us with a lesser contact patch and thus more chances of skidding and lesser chances of puncture

Overinflating, whether it is for hypermiling or for avoiding "puncture" is always a bad idea. I am curious. How many times a year does your motorcycle tyres get punctured?

I do agree that under braking there is a weight transfer to the front, but in no case there is a rear skid that takes place, it is always the front

You agree to the weight transfer? well, that's Physics 101. Your motorcycle needs to be dead straight under hard braking. If you are skidding your front wheel regularly, you would like to take a look at your riding technique. I can't help you there without actually seeing you drive and determining what you are doing wrong.

Also can you explain more on your logic for front only braking. As far as standard practice never ever apply the front brake alone, it is a reciepe for disaster. Both brakes have to be applied in conjunction, rear one applied earlier is the better and recommended.

Its not my logic. Counter intuitive as it might sound, Its just the safest way of braking. And the weight transfer and wheel lock is explained in my previous post. Read this for a greater understanding. In sum, it explains why the rear brake is one of the most dangerous controls you have on a motorcycle.

*All Things Motorcycle* - 192: Your Rear Tire 'chirps' When Hard Braking Or Downshifting

I see that you have quoted the avenger manual verbatim. The point that has perhaps escaped you is that closing the throttle which is the first step to braking already acts as drag on the rear wheel. So just concentraing on the front wheel will do the rest. touch the rear brake only for the last couple of yards after most of the momentum is already lost.

The skidding is worsened if there is loose mud or sand on the road

Thank you for stating the obvious. Whatever I wrote in the previous post is based not just on stuff I've read on the net but actual experience. I have been driving around 90 KMs a day to my office and back for the last few years. sometimes on one of my cars and mostly on motorcycles of which the latest iteration is the avenger 220. I have to navigate through both bumper to bumper traffic and high speed sections. Given that I have never taken a spill or had issues with front wheel skid, you could try these suggestions for a safer riding experience.

[manishalive]

well thanks for giving the reply. Well I am in no mood to contest my stand but will definitely say front rake angle is the single most contributor to turning circle radius.

As for the air pressure mine had always been on a higher side untill recently and have never suffered a puncture till now (tough wood.) in all the 5 years of ownership.

I will go though the details about the front only braking, may be my driving technique is wrong. but not always, we need to look more in depth of this.

[AnchoriteX]

Well I am in no mood to contest my stand but will definitely say front rake angle is the single most contributor to turning circle radius.

Think of the two wheels as two points of a compass. The farther apart they are, the bigger the circle. I am assuming that we are talking about a turning radius where you are actually driving. The handlebar can turn the wheel to weird angles in some bikes but you certainly can't turn that much when you are actually driving.

I have a few suggestions for you -

1. Lower tyre pressure to 21 psi for both wheels. I am getting 41 kpl (City-highway mixed) and a cruising speed of around 90 kph so you won't have much to lose. Haven't had any punctures either.

2. While riding let your feet take some of your weight so that shocks are not transmitted directly to your back. press down on the foot pegs whenever you run over rough patches. This should take care of any back ache problems.

3. Conciously counter steer. Everyone does it unconciously anyway. This post in x-bhp might interest you:

Counter Steering - xBhp.com : The Global Indian Biking Community

4. Feather the rear brakes only when you are moving slowly through traffic and when you are in a steep turn and need to slow down a bit. Remember the key word here - Feather. Rest of the time rely exclusively on the front brakes.

5. Hard Braking and swerving don't work together. So practice till you make decisions instinctively.

20 years back, I had the privilege of learning to drive from a bona fide "biker" who drove his bike up and down the hills of the North East......Bad roads and all. The whole idea of the post on swerving and hard braking was to help people avoid "kissing the tarmac". Here's wishing you thousands of happy miles.

[manishalive]

Originally Posted by AnchoriteX

I have a few suggestions for you -

Oh I see thanks for suggestions, I am now running on 21 and 25 psi. Average has gone down to around 32 kmpl ( i am too do a proper tune up once i return back).

I still have to read through the link you posted. Lot of reading and a lot corrective action .

Note from Mod : We don't allow car / bike specific "clubs" on Team-BHP. Please open a new thread if you have an ownership report to share, or to discuss each specific issue / recommendation for the Avenger. That also makes it easier for members & guests to find the thread. Thanks