[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by sriramv.iyer

The bike looks small (and would be appear even smaller with me on it :P ) and the plastic quality is NOT fitting for a 1.5L bike. Fairing seems a let down in quality too.

IMHO, CBR250R seems perfect for a 250cc. Not too small, and not too 'poser' either! (I only saw the bike, and didnt get to ride/sit on it yet).

Regarding plastic quality, there were news in Xbhp forums that the plastic quality in the initial batch of pre-production CBRs were not upto the mark, and Honda had rectified this later.

@vkochar: Didnt you feel the black bike on display in the Chennai showroom is not from the same batch as the red? Red one looks shiny and new, while the black already looks a bit old. Even the paint didnt have gloss!

Originally Posted by sriramv.iyer

1. We have 220cc (Pulsar) / 223 cc (ZMA/ZMR) bikes already - Producing up to 21 BHP (CBR produces 25 BHP)
2. ZMR has PGM-Fi as CBR
3. ZMR/ZMA seems to be better built
4. ZMR is priced 94K ex-showroom Bangalore (52 K less than CBR)
5. R15, though has only 17 BHP, is much better built and technically more advanced esp in chassis front (others: camshaft balancer (does CBR have one?))
6. CBR250R is single cylinder as all the bikes discussed above
So, do you really think CBR250R is priced as 'VFM'?

1 & 2. Pulsar 220 produces 21bhp alright, and if ever a Pulsar 250 comes out, it would definitly beat the CBR on power. ZMR only has 17.5bhp and is nowhere in comparison to the CBR! (110bhp per ton compared to 150 bhp per ton of the CBR)

3 & 4. I also feel ZMR is better built. I loved ZMR plastics when i saw it first! However, would you really want to be seen on an ZMR or a CBR? However good the plastics may be, ZMR looks nothing better than a CBZ Extreme with an oversized fairing and no overall proportions. (With all due respect to any owners here.) Why pay 94k for an ZMR when its 20k more than P220DTSi and comes with 3 bhp less and awkward 'poser' looks?

5 & 6. R15 with R125 looks would be a superb combination for India. But with the current looks, its too small and toy-like (specially with the small rear) for heavy guys like me. IMHO, R15 is not exactly VFM too. Doesnt look proportional (with that rear spoiling the whole package), and has only 17bhp (Who cares what technology has went in. My old 180DTSi had same power and that was just 64k INR, and returns good mileage too!)

CBR, for me-
0. Has ABS!!! (Should be standard on all bikes!)
1. Looks good without any awkwardness.
2. Has more than decent power.
3. Can cruise at 100 - 125 kmph effortlessly (based on reviews). A relaxed 100 kmph is what i feel is ideal for mile-crunching.
4. Good handling (Based on reviews).
5. Decent FE. (Again from reviews).
6. Affordable pricetag and feeling of money well spent (With the Honda and CBR names associated)!

As for the plastic quality, I was living with a Pulsar180 DTSi for the past five years, and with some care, it never failed me once (Except for the well- renowned silencer rusting). I dont think CBR would either!

PS- Looks like a Toyota Etios situation. But a winner neverthless.

[Sheel]

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

3 & 4. I also feel ZMR is better built. I loved ZMR plastics when i saw it first! However, would you really want to be seen on an ZMR or a CBR? However good the plastics may be, ZMR looks nothing better than a CBZ Extreme with an oversized fairing and no overall proportions. (With all due respect to any owners here.) Why pay 94k for an ZMR when its 20k more than P220DTSi and comes with 3 bhp less and awkward 'poser' looks?

If the ZMR is better built. why does the fairing rattle & vibe? (specifically speaking of plastics here) Even the Karizma's plastic lugs used to break.

and has only 17bhp (Who cares what technology has went in. My old 180DTSi had same power and that was just 64k INR, and returns good mileage too!)

Sir, I sincerely hadn't expected this reply from you

Why don't you post the power to weight ratio of R15 and that of the P-180 as you had earlier quoted for CBR & ZMA/P-220? Why two standards for R15 & P-220 and CBR-250 vis a vis P-220/ZMR/ZMA?

I think its a good effort by Honda Global and many riders will appreciate the experience.

[EssYouWe]

Its time that we, as a community of educated auto-enthusiasts, see beyond bhp figures.

Even though I have never seen the R15 as value for money, I find the high revving motor and the taught handling a much better treat than all the pimped up P220s.

As for the CBR 250, we can wait and see how durable the plasticky bits are. Every sane person would resent shoddy plastics after plonking down 1.5 lacs on a bike.

25 bhp seems adequate, but it all depends on how it is delivered. I wish the sweet spot is higher up the rev range.

[isodope]

Originally Posted by CARDEEP

I have not tried offending the senior member, but put across what is quoted in the mag reviews. Also, I expect that the plastics could be good enough to justify the Rs.1.5 lacs price tag. If not, what is point buying a bike where I cannot switch on the lights/indicators or use the horn when I want to. I guess, I would then buy the P220 & be more than happy than wasting twice the money on this.
Alternatively, I could buy the Cl500, as I do not have the permission from my parents to buy the Ninja. Your thoughts please...

Just a thought: besides the Mahindra Stallio, can you remember any first ride report from any magazine or TV show that said that some things about a bike were bad?

[Ajaybiz]

Whats the actual power output of this bike i mean to say the unrestricted versions power what they have abroad?

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by Sheel

If the ZMR is better built. why does the fairing rattle & vibe? (specifically speaking of plastics here) Even the Karizma's plastic lugs used to break.

I haven't driven ZMR, so I honestly dont know about the plastic rattle problem. However, the plastics "felt" rich when i saw the bike in the showroom. Infact, the plastic quality and the meters were the main thing (and only thing) that struck me, with the ZMR!

Originally Posted by Sheel

Sir, I sincerely hadn't expected this reply from you.

Why don't you post the power to weight ratio of R15 and that of the P-180 as you had earlier quoted for CBR & ZMA/P-220? Why two standards for R15 & P-220 and CBR-250 vis a vis P-220/ZMR/ZMA?

I think its a good effort by Honda Global and many riders will appreciate the experience.

@Sheel: Humble request not to use 'sir'!

I guess you missed my points 5 & 6, where I have compared them. I feel CBR is a much better package compared to the R15 (At their respective price levels!).

Infact, its the only upgrade option I am considering, from my P180 DTSi. Got to get another look at those plastics, before finalising. I saw the same bike as vkochar, but i missed all the stuff that he pointed out.

Originally Posted by EssYouWe

25 bhp seems adequate, but it all depends on how it is delivered. I wish the sweet spot is higher up the rev range.

All reports suggests its the mid-range thats sweet! 4k rpm upwards to the peak power range of 8000 rpm.

[coolmel]

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

I haven't driven ZMR, so I honestly dont know about the plastic rattle problem. However, the plastics "felt" rich when i saw the bike in the showroom. Infact, the plastic quality and the meters were the main thing (and only thing) that struck me, with the ZMR!


@Sheel: Humble request not to use 'sir'!

I guess you missed my points 5 & 6, where I have compared them. I feel CBR is a much better package compared to the R15 (At their respective price levels!).

Infact, its the only upgrade option I am considering, from my P180 DTSi. Got to get another look at those plastics, before finalising. I saw the same bike as vkochar, but i missed all the stuff that he pointed out.

All reports suggests its the mid-range thats sweet! 4k rpm upwards to the peak power range of 8000 rpm.

I guess if plastics matter to you then why dont you buy a 1000cc superbike?! you will get 'richer' plastics, better engine, better power, and better mileage as well. Why waste time on the CBR my friend??

First and foremost, the CBR and R15 cant be compared. They are poles apart, and I need to remind you, both have a 100cc gap. The front of the R15, housing the dash looks pathetic. Anyone can rip out anything. The CBRs is neatly housed and looks space age. Same goes with the ZMR, its better. But the CBR gets less vibes due to the counter balancer kicking in. The Karizmas do start humming after 90 onwards. Still, better off than the Pulsars atleast.

[sids911]

Originally Posted by coolmel

I guess if plastics matter to you then why dont you buy a 1000cc superbike?! you will get 'richer' plastics, better engine, better power, and better mileage as well. Why waste time on the CBR my friend??

I dont understand why people equate quality with money. Up to a certain extent yes, but its not end all and be all. My 2006 accord v6 functioned a lot better in a lot of aspects than the merc c300 that my brother had. At half the money.

[Sheel]

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

I guess you missed my points 5 & 6, where I have compared them. I feel CBR is a much better package compared to the R15 (At their respective price levels!).

R15 isn't a Motorcycle which is built to a price. I have been using it for the past 26 months or so and not even a bulb has gone kaput or there are absolutely no niggles/rattles to speak of.

I believe CBR too should do justice to the Honda tag, but it would be better to wait & watch, rather than take things for granted

Infact, its the only upgrade option I am considering, from my P180 DTSi. Got to get another look at those plastics, before finalising. I saw the same bike as vkochar, but i missed all the stuff that he pointed out.

I believe it should be a worthy up-grade for guys like us with not very deep pockets.
(Why on earth should we pay obscene 110%+ taxes for an import.)

All reports suggests its the mid-range thats sweet! 4k rpm upwards to the peak power range of 8000 rpm.

I think its fine, though there should be no let up in power till you hit the limiter.

[balenopower]

Originally Posted by niks_devil666

13. Comparable performance to the Ninja at half the price will make this a huge success

NOT comparable. trust me.

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by -NUT-case

Attaching some pictures taken today. You be the judge.

Apparently, this pic had become the discussion point on other forums, and it looks like there was a TRANSPARENT PLASTIC stuck to the bottom of the panel! The same stuff they use to cover other scratch prone areas like front visor and indicators!

On seeing the pic closer, i think its true! The texture and finish doesn't look like paint at all! And see the shine!



Can anyone from Chennai confirm? I wont be able to go to thousands lights showroom till next weekend.

Originally Posted by balenopower

NOT comparable. trust me.

Did you try both bikes? Would love to know your take on the CBR!

[Sheel]

Those wishing to know as to how does the CBR 250R stand up against the Ninja 250R might read this Honda CBR250R vs Kawasaki Ninja 250R - Motorcycle USA

Though the US edition of the Green meanie is a carb one unlike here where it gets fuel injection.

If 1L was what not separating them both, I don't think any of us would be even talking about the CBR-250R, right?

EDIT:-

This is what gsferrari had to say about his test-ride over at other forum. Copying & posting it here.

I just went to Vihaan Honda in Thane for a test-ride. They have a dedicated test-ride bike (not for delivery...I hope) according to the sales lady there. I rode there on the MT-01 for shock and awe effect and it worked

Threw them the MT-01 keys...told them I only ride alone and took the bike out for a short but sweet test ride.

First impressions:

1. The bike is about the same size as the Karizma but due to the low bars it feels shorter and smaller. Decent enough for tall riders and I am as tall as they come at 6'3".

2. Not as POWERFUL as I expected. The Ninja when properly ridden will show a clean pair of heels to the CBR -BUT- allow me to change this impression of mine because this bike was pretty new and not yet run-in. Maybe with 2-3000 kms on the ODO it might smoothen up and open up some more. Think of it as a fast ZMA and not as your first superbike...I've ridden P220s and R15s that had a bit more *ZIP* than the CBR.

3. Clutch is light but there is NO TORQUE down low (pulling away from the stops). Felt identical to the Ducati Monster 796 in the way you had to give it some slip before it caught and went. This could be a problem if I take the bike to Ladakh because slipping the clutch when you are in the middle of nowhere can lead to tears! (the kind that comes out of your eye...)

4. Brakes - GOOD! This was the C-ABS model

5. Suspension - GOOD! Just like a good 600cc superbike. Firm without being harsh. The road they asked me to ride on was pretty awful but on decent tarmac it should be a joyful experience.

6. Handling - a bit too "quick" for my taste. If the terms oversteer and understeer are applicable here then it oversteers. The ZMA was quick to steer...R15 much more controlled. This is somewhere in between but still too quick. It loses the "big bike" feel because of this. I think this is due to steering geometry and narrow tires. The rear tire is nice and meaty for a bike this size but the front tire feels too thin. I think aftermarket tires are a must on this bike to make the most of it.

7. Seats - comfy. Firm without sag. Will be a boon over a long ride.

8. Instrument panel - looks good but I found it a bit distracting in the night because it is quite bright. Not sure if there is any way to dim the panel brightness.

I looked all over for paint defects and I must tell you that there were none (this was the BLACK bike). Panels look alright even if quality is perhaps a couple of steps below the Ninja and maybe 1 step below the R15 which I rate very highly when it comes to build quality.

I still think the R15 is the better bike simply for the way it FEELS when you ride it. It absolutely feels like a track machine. Very precise and predictable...almost like a Ariel Atom to the CBR250R's Dodge Charger.

Is it worth the money? Unlike some of you who probably get carried away by the illusion of big-biking, I don't think this is a BIG-BIKE killer. I don't think it is worth the asking price...at best I would have put the pin on 1.3L for the non-ABS and 1.5 for the ABS. So the pricing is off by 30k for the non-ABS and 40k for the ABS model...

Are there any choices in the market at this price? - NO...

Should a P220/R15 rider feel the desperate need to upgrade? - NO...

Doing 150+ on a bike like this would feel scary...on an MT01 or R1 it feels slow, controlled and safe. I did 100 on one stretch and I didn't quite feel like the bike was entirely in my hands.

So buy the bike - but ride safe...speed kills!


Best Bit - I have a video of my test-ride...I'll try to upload it in a few hours.

What he thinks further

I was ready to book the bike blindly until someone on motoroids mentioned that this particular dealership was giving test-rides so I took the opportunity and scooted there immediately to make up my own mind.

If you have booked the bike / If you are about to book the bike - do yourself a favor and have a test-ride first and then decide because that is when you will be able to decide whether you can get your money's worth out of this bike. I feel it is not worth the money...someone else may feel that it is! But PLEASE don't decide this based on how the bike looks because at the end of the day, nobody wants to be on an overpriced souped up Zma..which is sort of what this bike feels like to me.

I also ride an RX, RD350, Yezdi, Karizma as well as the MT-01 so I am not "used" to any kind of power. I've also been riding bikes from the time many of you were still learning that peeing into the wind is not a great idea. All those years of shifting gears has taught me one thing - If a bike doesn't put a smile on your face then walk away...something else will come along and it is better to save the money and wait. I feel there will be better options for the same or even less money in the months/years to come. I also advocate that if you can swing 1.5L in one-shot then it is better to put it as down-payment on a true big-bike like the Ninja 650R for example (which will be launched...question is when?)

Peer pressure is extremely powerful and the tsunami effect of the hype, hysteria, excitement and desperation that you see here in this thread can push someone over the precipice into doing something that isn't necessarily what they would have done when presented with a lucid review and a test-ride. I can't give you a bike to ride but I can tell you what I think of the bike.

I have posted one video to show you how much clutch slip is needed to get the bike rolling. If, like me, you wanted to take this bike to the hills or even to Ladakh, then this kind of throttle response becomes a pain in the posterior. I know from experience that this will not work in those conditions. An under-square bike that develops power (even 15-16bhp) in the right RPM range is more useful in those conditions.

The two videos which he shot

YouTube - No Bottom End Torque MP4

YouTube - On a decent stretch

Hope Guru won't mind copying his stuff

[jkdas]

crazy; seems the new new ZMR too has the rattling issue which the old ones had?

And nice to see Honda CBR now being compared to ZMR and R15!

Question: Would all retake what they posted if CBR was prices 30k lesser?

[gsferrari]

Sheel - no problem at all. I hope, at the very least, my review forces our readers and forum members to get a test-ride in before booking the bike. I feel some of the reviews done by the so called "professional" magazines and websites are skewed pretty strongly.

Overdrive for example talks about lifting the wheels just by opening the throttle in first gear. This is a LOAD OF TOSH! I went to WOT and the bike barely whistled along. I shifted back in the seat (all 110 kilos) and went WOT (which would lift the front end of a Karizma/Pulsar with EASE) and nothing...no drama.

It is not as powerful as these reviews make it seem. I found the overall experience quite bland and the vibes at higher rpms were pretty intrusive. Given the asking price, I am not interested in this bike anymore. I get a heck of a lot more laughs out of my old RD350 and TZR250 on a short ride around the block than I did over a 4Km ride on the CBR.

But I agree...when it comes to D-Day it is YOUR money. Just as long as you are aware that YMMV you should be ok

[Sheel]

Originally Posted by gsferrari

Sheel - no problem at all. I hope, at the very least, my review forces our readers and forum members to get a test-ride in before booking the bike. I feel some of the reviews done by the so called "professional" magazines and websites are skewed pretty strongly.

Overdrive for example talks about lifting the wheels just by opening the throttle in first gear. This is a LOAD OF TOSH! I went to WOT and the bike barely whistled along. I shifted back in the seat (all 110 kilos) and went WOT (which would lift the front end of a Karizma/Pulsar with EASE) and nothing...no drama.

One of the reasons why I wish to have 'Official New Motorcycle Reviews' by Team Bhp.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/shifti...ml#post2325572