[ashwanth]

Hi gang !

I successfully moved onto the side-engined manual-transmission Honda Eterno (Bought a used one) from my brother's Honda Activa.

Now am ready to graduate to a bike and have the following in mind:

Bajaj avenger (My heart wants this one !)
Bajaj pulsar 150 DTSi
TVS Apache 160 FI (Is non-FI 160 still under production?)

Both the Honda scooters gave me back pain if used to commute long distances (which I do it say once in 2/3 months) of say 100+ Km. While this won't be a problem with the avenger, I do a lot of in-the-city peak hour runs.

Will the 'sporty' ergonomics of Apache and Pulsar be a pain during long drives ?

Does the FI unit on Apache require extensive care?

These are the requirements for my would-be bike :

+ Good handling
+ High reliability and good after sales service
+ Comfortable for long trips (done once in a while)
+ Mileage of atleast 45 kmpl
+ budget is 70k.

cheers,
Ashwanth

P.S. If the funds from my family permit, I can consider 180 DTSi Pulsar or 180 RTR Apache also.

[kingofmyworld]

Apache 160FI would be my obvious choice, But you need to compromise with the height. Apache is short compared to pulsars. But the quality,handling and other aspects are very good in apache.
Are you sure about the pricing of rtr? does it fall in the 70k bucket?

[Sheel]

Apache RTR 160 FI is dearer to RTR-180 by a grand or two.

The only negative about RTR-180 is FE wrt RTR-160 FI, but then FI unit(a delphi I guess) isn't glitch free.

My vote would be RTR-160(if FE is a priority)
else
RTR-180 or P-180.

[DRIV3R]

Originally Posted by ashwanth

Hi gang !

I successfully moved onto the side-engined manual-transmission Honda Eterno (Bought a used one) from my brother's Honda Activa.

Now am ready to graduate to a bike and have the following in mind:

Bajaj avenger (My heart wants this one !)
Bajaj pulsar 150 DTSi
TVS Apache 160 FI (Is non-FI 160 still under production?)

Both the Honda scooters gave me back pain if used to commute long distances (which I do it say once in 2/3 months) of say 100+ Km. While this won't be a problem with the avenger, I do a lot of in-the-city peak hour runs.

Will the 'sporty' ergonomics of Apache and Pulsar be a pain during long drives ?

Does the FI unit on Apache require extensive care?

These are the requirements for my would-be bike :

+ Good handling
+ High reliability and good after sales service
+ Comfortable for long trips (done once in a while)
+ Mileage of atleast 45 kmpl
+ budget is 70k.

cheers,
Ashwanth

P.S. If the funds from my family permit, I can consider 180 DTSi Pulsar or 180 RTR Apache also.

The Apache RTR (all models) and the Pulsar 180 all have rearset footpegs which give a sporty riding posture. This can be a pain during long rides.

If your usage is going to be mainly in the city, i would say go for the Pulsar 150. The latest version has got 15PS of power, better sounding horns, clip on handlebars and all black theme amongst various other minor modifications. (You know that with TATA and Bajaj, we customers are the Beta testers). And a real time FE of 45 is guaranteed.

The RTR's are sporty and have a shorter wheelbase, which helps in handling within the city, but loses out on straight line stability. Brakes are better than the Pulsar while the engine vibes are annoyingly more. You can feel them on the front and rear footpegs and handlebar. The important contact points of your body with the bike. After a long ride, you feel like your hands are just off a vibrator. The RTR Fi gives the best FE amongst the RTR brothers. And don't you worry, all the niggling issues of the Fi unit are sorted out by now.

If your usage is mainly on the highways, go for the Avenger. It's very comfy and relaxing on our muscles. But within the city, you have a tough time thanks to it's long wheelbase.

Lastly, be sure that no other bike from your list other than the P150 and the RTR Fi would give you a real time FE of 45kmpl.

Do go for a test ride and take your pick! All the best.

[Sheel]

Originally Posted by DRIV3R

The Apache RTR (all models) and the Pulsar 180 all have rearset footpegs which give a sporty riding posture. This can be a pain during long rides.

P-180 has more straight forward pegs, but none can be a pain.

clip on handlebars and all black theme amongst various other minor modifications.

Clip-ons w/o rear sets? Never came across any other Motorcycle.

he RTR's are sporty and have a shorter wheelbase, which helps in handling within the city, but loses out on straight line stability. Brakes are better than the Pulsar while the engine vibes are annoyingly more

There are vibes & plenty of them, but a straight line stability is poor & that too up against a P-150.(used my 2nd & last simile or shock)

Do go for a test ride and take your pick! All the best.

Dunno if test-rides provided by manufacturers are long enough to take a decision. But still, something better than nothing, if you can grab a friend's bike/s nothing like it.

[DRIV3R]

Originally Posted by Sheel

P-180 has more straight forward pegs, but none can be a pain.

You have to ride long and hard, my friend!

Clip-ons w/o rear sets? Never came across any other Motorcycle.

Say that you have not come across the latest Pulsar 150 avtar then!

There are vibes & plenty of them, but a straight line stability is poor & that too up against a P-150.(used my 2nd & last simile or shock)

Yes. Blame it on the shorter wheelbase of the RTR and the poor factory rubber it comes with. (TVS Srichakra, which sucks)

Dunno if test-rides provided by manufacturers are long enough to take a decision. But still, something better than nothing, if you can grab a friend's bike/s nothing like it.

It works that way all round the globe. But as u say, if we get hold of a friend's bike, even better.

[Sheel]

Originally Posted by DRIV3R

You have to ride long and hard, my friend!

Thank you very much for your advise.
^^Most of the SS & BB runs in India were done on a rear-set Motorcycle.

Say that you have not come across the latest Pulsar 150 avtar then!

Originally Posted by Sheel

Clip-ons w/o rear sets? Never came across any other Motorcycle.

Maybe you needn't be in a hurry and read it proper

Barring it.

Yes. Blame it on the shorter wheelbase of the RTR and the poor factory rubber it comes with. (TVS Srichakra, which sucks)

Even on shittiest rubber a bike will be stable in a straight line.

So which is a better handler on OE tires?

[aargee]

Originally Posted by ashwanth

Bajaj avenger (My heart wants this one !)
Bajaj pulsar 150 DTSi
TVS Apache 160 FI (Is non-FI 160 still under production?)

Why're you even thinking of Pulsar 150?

Originally Posted by ashwanth

While this won't be a problem with the avenger, I do a lot of in-the-city peak hour runs.

Not necessary; you can do this even in any non avenger motorcycle comfortably.

Originally Posted by ashwanth

Will the 'sporty' ergonomics of Apache and Pulsar be a pain during long drives ?

Not necessary

Originally Posted by ashwanth

Does the FI unit on Apache require extensive care?

Nope

Originally Posted by ashwanth

+ Good handling
+ High reliability and good after sales service
+ Comfortable for long trips (done once in a while)
+ Mileage of atleast 45 kmpl
+ budget is 70k.

Every aspect in the above, except the budget meets perfectly to one motorcycle - ZMA/R.

How about Unicorn? The engine, geatshift is butter smooth. Though its not a great comfort, but, better than R15, you may want to consider it. Another one to confuse you further - FZ16/Fazer.

Originally Posted by ashwanth

P.S. If the funds from my family permit, I can consider 180 DTSi Pulsar or 180 RTR Apache also.

Are you a ZMA hater? Though I'm a HH hater, I've to sadly admit that ZMA/R is one of the good motorcycle when it comes to handling, mileage, power & most importantly - comfort.

[DRIV3R]

Originally Posted by Sheel

Thank you very much for your advise.
^^Most of the SS & BB runs in India were done on a rear-set Motorcycle.

Sam & NC drove the Nano from Mumbai to Delhi. Does that make Nano a comfortable car?

Maybe you needn't be in a hurry and read it proper

Barring it.

Anyways, how does it matter if it is a clip on or a conventional handle bar, given that the distance between the handle bar and the footpeg is going to be more or less the same? Ever seen these wannabe 100cc bikes with clip-ons?

As long as the distance between the handle bar and the footpeg is the same, the rider is in THE same riding posture, irrespective of whether it is a clip-on or not.

Even on shittiest rubber a bike will be stable in a straight line.

I think you need to re-work on your definition of straight line stability. Straight line stability also means staying in a straight line during panic braking. Your 'shittiest' rubber would probably fishtail you and put you horizontal on the road.

So which is a better handler on OE tires?

I never talked about handling. I talked about straight line stability. Inside the city, though the RTR comes with bad tires, it is nimble and flickable in traffic.

On the highways, it's a different story. The shorter wheelbase does no wonders.

[Sheel]

Originally Posted by DRIV3R

Sam & NC drove the Nano from Mumbai to Delhi. Does that make Nano a comfortable car?

You are talking about a totally different genre.
karizma/P-220/R15 all have rear-sets and they are very comfortable.

Anyways, how does it matter if it is a clip on or a conventional handle bar, given that the distance between the handle bar and the footpeg is going to be more or less the same?

Have you measured it?

I think you need to re-work on your definition of straight line stability. Straight line stability also means staying in a straight line during panic braking. Your 'shittiest' rubber would probably fishtail you and put you horizontal on the road.

You weren't talking about braking earlier were you?
and for the record the TVS doesn't come with half as bad tire as you are saying, that award goes to IRC's shod with P-220.

I never talked about handling. I talked about straight line stability. Inside the city, though the RTR comes with bad tires, it is nimble and flickable in traffic.

On the highways, it's a different story. The shorter wheelbase does no wonders.

Lets talk about handling too, shall we?
Tell me the name of just one Motorcycle which rocks in the corners and sucks on the straights.

and let me know the nos you wish to know in which a Motorcycle is absolutely brilliant in a straight line but is a dodo in corners.

You mean to say a RTR-160 isn't as good as a P-150 in a straight-line & that too because of its wheel-base?

[DRIV3R]

Originally Posted by Sheel

You are talking about a totally different genre.
karizma/P-220/R15 all have rear-sets and they are very comfortable.

Zma's footpegs are not as rear set as say the R15 or the P220. The world knows how comfortable the Zma is and that is why it is the most preferred tourer bike.

Have you measured it?

Putting back the same question to you, Have you measured it?

The footpeg support frame is the same(as in the UG3 pulsars) and so is the handle bar mount point. The clip-ons can be added to any Pulsar 150 for 1000 bucks. As the mounting points are THE same, so are the distances between them. There would be neglible difference due to the fact that the clip-ons are angled differently, and that's about it. (Still not convinced? Take up pics or observe the bikes for yourself)

You weren't talking about braking earlier were you?

Read my previous comment. Straight line stability also includes the handling characteristics of the bike during panic braking. So, panic braking is always a component of straight line stability in my books!

and for the record the TVS doesn't come with half as bad tire as you are saying, that award goes to IRC's shod with P-220.

IRC's are imported and are obviously the best tires a motorcycle can get. Who denies it now? And this fact doesn't make TVS SriChakra any better than MRF Zappers.

[Sheel]

Originally Posted by DRIV3R

Zma's footpegs are not as rear set as say the R15 or the P220. The world knows how comfortable the Zma is and that is why it is the most preferred tourer bike.

P-220 is as comfortable & so is R15,
Karizma is preferred because of its 18" wheels & refined engine, everywhere else it gets triumphed.

Putting back the same question to you, Have you measured it?

No clip-on will be comfy as a simple handle-bar because of its design.
Your back is straight because of straight forward pegs & you have to bend your upper body(by an inch even), makes for the same position?

The footpeg support frame is the same(as in the UG3 pulsars) and so is the handle bar mount point. The clip-ons can be added to any Pulsar 150 for 1000 bucks. As the mounting points are THE same, so are the distances between them. There would be neglible difference due to the fact that the clip-ons are angled differently, and that's about it. (Still not convinced? Take up pics or observe the bikes for yourself)

Next time tweak your handle-bar up or down by a mm or two, ride long & hard, lets see your opinions then.

Read my previous comment. Straight line stability also includes the handling characteristics of the bike during panic braking. So, panic braking is always a component of straight line stability in my books!

What would you do if a d0g runs while cornering? not brake at all?

IRC's are imported and are obviously the best tires a motorcycle can get. Who denies it now? And this fact doesn't make TVS SriChakra any better than MRF Zappers.

Does importing them make any good & all the testers complained equally about IRC's.
TVS isn't good, I agree, but not as bad as you are making them out to be and I have recommended an upgrade to many guys over here IIRC.

Originally Posted by Sheel

You mean to say a RTR-160 isn't as good as a P-150 in a straight-line & that too because of its wheel-base?

waiting for your reply of the above question.

^^Have never owned a TVS product, but have owned P-220/Karizma/R15 to comment upon.

[sai_ace]

I have an RTR -eFi, early batch which had its share of niggles in terms of the fuel injection and stuff. But With the new injectors that the company replaced free of cost things are fine now.

IMHO, the difference between pulsar and Apache series boil down to the customer wants and requirements. That said, I personally believe that with time an Apache holds itself better than a Pulsar. I have a 2006 apache classic as well which has hardly required any major service apart from the battery.

If you are comfort oriented, look at the pulsar. If otherwise, look at the RTR. And yeah, once you get the RTR, change the front tyre to an MRF 90/90 -17 (the one that comes with avenger). Thats all you require- again IMHO.

[rdna]

Nice argument between Sheel and Driv3r Getting to know few things and started observing the same on bikes now.

Here is my take on RTR (only). The FI units were stopped for sometime because it was a real PITA. Didn't know that they had made a comeback. If they have sorted out the niggles, I suggest you go for it. From the few 3-4 75+kms trips which I've done, in a stretch, I find that my shoulders start to ache. This happens only if I'm riding real slow. Like around 65-70kmph on the highway. It really shouldn't be a problem once you get used to it. I'm also observing that I tend to keep my body and right leg stiff while riding and this is tiring me out. Easing out now. It finally depends on your riding style as well.

The 180cc gives you anything b/w 40-45kmpl and the power delivery is simply AWESOME!! Yes, the tires REALLY suck on wet roads, but on completely dry roads, I've not seen any other bike in it's class take on corners so well(except for FZ of-course). The worst part of the bike is also the most important. The gearbox bloody stiff and notchy! Can be a real pain in case of panic breaking and you want to shift down a gear or two. Next is the rear disc. It's horrible!! It just doesn't do the job!! End of the day, the bike can be either good or bad only because of the A.S.S. apart from your side of maintenance. A.S.S need better mechanics and really attend to any problems when is shown. Most of them have the attitude of telling "It's normal saar"

Only because of forums like these have I been able to point out things which are going bad and get it fixed or fix it myself. Hope this helps.

[Sheel]

Originally Posted by rdna

Nice argument between Sheel and Driv3r

argument? far from one.

The RTR-180 is a comfier Motorcycle to pilot around, courtesy its same dia wheels, front & back(both 17" as opposed to RTR-160's 17" front & 18" rear) along with a longer wheelbase.

4 valve updated Pulsars(on P-135 LS's line) should be here by March 2011. This is speculated by one & all.