[Randhawa]

Nope it isn't but cheaper then Wurth and happiness guaranteed in few minutes, I just saw a dude going happy first time since the day he bought his C5 after one year. I wish it stays that way for him and for rest of us who will try it.

[adrian]

Originally Posted by hexanerax

Hi,
The Auto Decompressor ( if working properly ) should disengage at 800 RPM. Assuming that the idle on your C5 is set at the recommended 1000 RPM , the autodecompressor will be disengaged once the bike is idling properly.If not , please recheck the idle RPM when cold and also inspect the auto de-compression mechanism for play or jamming. Manual decompression is not a possibility as the head does not have a decompression valve -> exhaust bypass. You could design and fit a cable operated system in the plug hole for the secondary spark plug but where will you vent the decompression gases? Getting rid of the system means that the self start motor will be under extreme load , reducing battery and self motor life. Back-kicks will trash your sprag clutch assembly and the kick start will be so hard , you wouldn't be able to start it easily.
Regards
Naren

Originally Posted by Randhawa

@Adrian- I could have not said it better and Naren has explained it all and precisely. Just to add a bit more, theoretically its 300rpm when auto de-comp should shut off but in real world/ practical conditions its 800rpm when it actually shuts off.

@Nasir- Give me some time then I'll do the writeup after I get the head sorted.

@ Naren and Randhawa
Even though I post my doubts at Randhawa's and EssYouWe's , my machine is a standard 350 UCE. No ES. So I thought to give the auto decompressor a try Any way thanks for the eye opening friends.

[anurag47]

Lately, I’ve noticed a “cyclic” sound in the C5’s engine during idling – it sounds like a “periodic wave” superimposed over the regular engine sound. This wasn’t there initially.

Any idea of what could it be due to? Is it normal? (I can post an audio clip if required).

Anurag

PS: Haven’t been able to actively participate on this thread after my initial posts! ;-( Will post an update soon…

[girishab]

From the last couple of days whenever I switch on the ignition in the morning, I see that the fuel indicator lamp glows and stays on even after starting. In fact it stays on until I physically move the bike (like taking it off the stand), after which it goes off. It does not flash during riding and I have verified that there is enough fuel in the bike.
I had not seen this earlier. Any ideas as to why this happens? Sensor gone kaput or about to die?

One observation is that this happens when the bike is switched on after parking for long time (either overnight or whole day).

I just topped up the fuel today and will see if it makes any difference to the behavior.

Regards,
Girish.

[hexanerax]

Originally Posted by Randhawa

Nope it isn't but cheaper then Wurth and happiness guaranteed in few minutes, I just saw a dude going happy first time since the day he bought his C5 after one year. I wish it stays that way for him and for rest of us who will try it.

Interesting! Have you tried the fix on your bike? Come on man out , let the cat out of the bag now.

Regards
Naren

[hexanerax]

Originally Posted by girishab

From the last couple of days whenever I switch on the ignition in the morning, I see that the fuel indicator lamp glows and stays on even after starting. In fact it stays on until I physically move the bike (like taking it off the stand), after which it goes off. It does not flash during riding and I have verified that there is enough fuel in the bike.
I had not seen this earlier. Any ideas as to why this happens? Sensor gone kaput or about to die?

One observation is that this happens when the bike is switched on after parking for long time (either overnight or whole day).

I just topped up the fuel today and will see if it makes any difference to the behavior.

Regards,
Girish.

Hi,
You probably have some contamination ( rust , water or scum ) in the sensor. Take the bike in to service and have them open and check the sensor, clean or replace as necessary. Some of the early bikes had a problem with magnetic interference to the sensor but considering your sensor is malfunctioning only after a period of rest , i guess it has to be some sort of contamination. May even be a good idea to get the tank off and clean it thoroughly.
Regards
Naren

[Randhawa]

@Adrian- No problems buddy, if you have 350 Std that does not mean you are different from us. We all share the same platform so we can help each other.

I wanted to tell you and ask you at the same time about one thing which you might not be aware off. There is a problem with the kick shaft mechanism or commonly known as kick dog. A very small piece which can make the kick redundant and its been modified on the latest Std 350. When did you bought the bike and did it had a sticker on the crank case saying "New Pawl"? Apparently they have redesigned the mechanism and the ones with older version with kick going dead meant opening up the engine to replace a small thing called kick dog. If you don't mind spending a bit more and want a ES then you should consider it. Cost of the conversion is 8k and takes around 2hrs to get the ES fitted.

Problem with the kick dog or Pawl is that its of poor quality material and wears out very fast. The new one is of better quality which should last very long. Its part no 37 in the picture.




@Anurag- Thats perfectly normal. It will come and go time to time and if you keep your tank above 4L then lot of noises which are there normally audible enough to make a owner paranoid. So forget about it, nothing to worry. Congrats anyways and welcome to the gang.

@Girishab- Do as Naren suggested and its also possible that you have a loose connector of the fuel level sensor or its gone bad. RE will replace it if you take it to your RE workshop.

@Naren- I wanted to experience it myself too before I could say anything for sure so just got it in the evening. Waiting for the rain to stop so I can go for a ride and give my honest opinion. Just starting the bike gave me very positive results and I just cant wait to go for a ride now. So I'll share my experience by tonight or by tomorrow morning with complete instructions and details.

[anurag47]

Originally Posted by Randhawa

@Anurag- Thats perfectly normal. It will come and go time to time and if you keep your tank above 4L then lot of noises which are there normally audible enough to make a owner paranoid. So forget about it, nothing to worry. Congrats anyways and welcome to the gang.

Thanks Randhawa - appreciate your quick response! I'll observe further and respond back. BTW, I'd already joined the gang a few months ago where I had posed initial reviews of my C5 on this thread!

Another Q - does anyone in B'lore know of a place that sells leather saddle bags for the C5? I have the upswept on the C5 and am looking for a leather saddle bag which would not touch the upswept. I've tried looking at a few places on JC Road, without success.
It's unfortunate that RE hasn't come out with an "official" saddle bag for the Classics.

[stnair]

Originally Posted by Randhawa

....... and if you keep your tank above 4L then lot of noises which are there normally audible enough to make a owner paranoid.........

Whats that ? You mean if I keep Petrol in tank above 4L, then noise is reduced ?


regards
san

[Randhawa]

With less fuel in the tank, vibration and noises resonates into the tank and you hear amplified noises. More fuel less noises.

[Randhawa]

RE resolution to rich mixture/jerk /sooting/misfiring issue and "All is well"

Anyone who has been reading through this thread silently or has participated with their experiences of ownership on here knows all about the issues mentioned above.

I have been saying from day one the cause of the Black smoke issue and related problems from it was due to the ECU mapping and much needed O2 sensor. From time to time RE has been admitting to this and then dismissing this problem all together. I had plenty of heated arguments with RE officials during the last year and so did rest of the comrades across India who were not happy with their C5's. But they never provided us with a proper solution, reasons best known to RE.

All I ever got from them was some info on and off about the solution and some plugs to keep quit. Nonetheless things never came out too positive from their end.

Things went from RE planning to remap ECU ended up with the hotter plugs which were supposed to heat up quickly to burn the soot created within few seconds of cold crank. Well the new plugs did helped a bit but still needed some dedication from the owners to adapt a bit to keep them plugs from sooting too. Some still have issues worse then others and the saga continues..

RE has worked out another solution temporarily for now and supposedly working on remapping the ECU to get over with this issue once and for all.

What I am not sure about is that what if their promise again turns out to be a rumour just like what happened with the swing arm update. What surprises me with RE is that one part of RE works out a solution and then the other part says no to it and all the planning gets scrapped. I know for sure they did developed the swing arm and it was about to go into production but got scrapped just at the end and we got was a 19inch front tyre and they showed us the door. That tells how much they care about people who spent their money on their bikes and ride a dangerous bike which has the ability to snuff out a riders life.

So their permanent solution to black smoke issue is to remap ECU which according to them will be done by end of April. But if thats the case then probably the new UCE 500 planned for launch will get delayed.

What I have got to know is that they will swap the ECU of C5 owners who have soot problem but again not sure if this will be applicable to all existing C5 owners who are way past the warranty or those who have not registered the issue with them so far. Will there be a official recall? which I think will never happen and anyone who can push the right buttons will get the new remapped ECU.


So what is the new temporarily solution has RE offered now!


It's a another spark plug and darn it works

Some history of C5 plugs.

1. First batch
Primary plug- WR7DDC4
Secondary Plug UR5DC

2. Second batch
Primary plug- WQR8DC
Secondary plug- UR6DC

3. Latest upgrade
Primary plug-WR8DP
Secondary plug- UR6DC



So we have got another plug upgrade but only a primary plug needs to be changed.



Whats so special about WR8DP AKA -Bosch Platinum Plus?


Some info
Bosch Platinum Plus Features

1. Only Bosch uses a platinum center electrode, heat-fused into an extended insulator
2. Tapered, yttrium-enhanced v-profile ground electrode
3. Nickel-plated rolled threads
4. Lower ignition voltage requirements vs. other plug designs

Bosch Platinum Plus Benefits

1. Reaches self-cleaning temperature only seconds after starting

Electrode gap remains virtually unchanged throughout the plug's longer service life; no need to clean or re-gap
2. Extends service life by 25% vs. original Bosch Platinum, reduces electrode temperature, and improves access to air/fuel mixture
3. For complete anti-seize and corrosion protection
4. For reliable cold weather starts and superior operation under all driving conditions

Above is just the typical Bosch info on the plug and there is only one thing which really matters to us is the burning up of carbon on the plug in seconds.



How good is the plug and does it really resolves anything or it's just another upgrade to keep us busy!

Well after seeing the dude happy after complete one year of dissatisfaction related to black smoke issue and misfiring. I was so excited and I just wanted to try it out for the benefit of others as I am doing just great with my religiously warming up mantra and existing plugs.

Well this is a bit funny incidence and how I caught them off guard with this new upgrade.

Went to RE workshop and met this guy with his troublesome C5. Ok this guy suffered the most because his C5 has never seen a life above 55km/hr in 8k(his Guru ji has ordered him not to ride his bike above 50- RE should speak to his guru personally). I had given up any hope on this guy as personally I had tried my level best to explain the issue and what needs to be done to avoid misfiring. His bike is the first bike in my life I have seen who's front brake jammed(under 5k) because he never used it properly. Seriously he should be riding one of those electric cycles.

But nonetheless he came religiously to workshop trying to sort his bike out. Religiously RE tried to make him happy by whatever parts they could change for him. Knowing the issue and solution still RE kept changing his parts and as usual he got another new part yesterday- a new fuel injector. As usual the missing was as prominent as always.

Then I hear the engineer saying today we will sort it out and I was just grinning silently for the outcome. So the Er orders two mechanics to take the bike and get something fitted. Well my sharp ears got more curious as this was out of the ordinary so waited impatiently to see an end to this episode.

Half an hour went by and the guys came back saying all is well. I was not expecting any happy moments so me being me, got more curious. First time in whole one year, I see this guy leaving within minutes with his bike with the biggest smile I had ever seen on his face.

It was enough for me to get to this new mysterious upgrade and I used the invisible Quickfix to get whatever I could from the Er.

So politely he explained me what they had done and what it was. From what I gathered about the plug was that RE had imported some special plugs from germany and they have handed out the plugs in limited numbers to dealers throughout India. He did not had a spare one for me as this plug was not available in India and specially imported through Bosch India.

Now I was pissed off and I had every good reason to find this plug in India. Got the plug no from him and thought of trying to find some info on this plug. Spent last night being excited and looking for this plug but got no success finding it online in India. So today went straight to the Bosch main dealer and armed with only the part no. So the guy at the reception quite politely tells me this plug does not exist in his inventory. I asked for the catalogue to search it myself and did mentioned him that this plug is not made for Indian market but probably being imported by Bosch.

To my surprise and his surprise it was listed as an OEM replacement for few cars in India. He had only one left and I grabbed it straight away. Although this plug is not meant for two wheelers but fits like a glove in our C5. Called Er and told the story about the plug, he was surprised too as compared to what RE had given him a goofed up story of these specially ordered plugs which were not available in India. RE had provided them with hardly any plugs and RE was also refusing them for any more new plugs telling them about how hard it was for them to get these plugs specially imported into India. RE Er wanted 50 more and this dealer could get him within two days so gave him his details to Er to conduct their deal directly by-passing the RE Chennai with their cooked up story for shortage of plugs.


Came home, fitted the plug as per instructions and waited for the rain to stop. Went out for a 30km ride so I could give you my feedback on this magic plug.

Is this new plug really a improvised solution to our long lasting problem? Yes it does, finally we have something which works. Hallelujah.

Observations based on a short 30km ride

What I looked for while testing this plug;

1. Warm up time
2. Starting-
3. Missing/misfiring - at idle to speed upto 80
4. jerks- during sudden input to throttle
5. Hiccups- usually felt under 60km/h while going at constant speed in any gear
6. Throttle response and top speed
7. Smoke


Results!!!

1. Warm up time- Usually my bike takes 3minutes to dispense vapours from rear but this time it took 2.5min to warm up.

2. Starting- Very crisp and I intentionally cranked it 4 times on/off. Normally if you crank it more then twice in succession, bike starts burping the moment it comes to life but this time it started fresh at every crank.

3. Missing/ misfiring- None but I cant say much as I did not suffer from this so those people who are actually facing this issue could comment.

4. Jerks- As I said earlier, due to EFI it will always be there but felt a reduction of 20%

5. Hiccups- Just this point is worth spending money on. Usually it comes when going in 3,4,5 gear at constant speed and under 60. I tried everything and failed miserably trying to get the hiccups even once. I tried in 3rd gear for 4km at a speed of 30, 4th gear at 40 for 4km. Darn I lugged it for first time intentionally and still not a faint hint of a hiccup. Note- people may term things differently and some might call this as a jerk or missing so I have specified above in detail. Whatever makes sense that term applies to you.

6. Throttle response/ top speed- It's crisp throughout the rev range and in all gears the feel is very consistent. Topped the same on my usual test road but torque felt different and very healthy.

7. Smoke- It was dark so cant say, will see in the morning.



I give this Bosch Platinum Plug and highly recommend to those who are facing any of those issues above.


Where you can get it.

It's a Bosch Platinum Plus, plug no WR8DP. Bosch catalogue no is -0242 229 555 000. MRP Rs 250. Should be able to get it from a Bosch dealer in your town. If that fails then you can rob it from Maruti's stable from M800, Omni, Zen, Esteem 1000 (all carbed versions) & Matiz. But if you are civilised then you can just drop in at any descent Maruti dealer and get one form their parts store or any spare parts shop which keeps spares for Maruti.


Special Installation guide from RE- yes kid you not.

It's a word to word instructions copy so please keep profanity at bay. I izz not be be blamed for this tedious guide and rest.


Things to be taken care of while fitting the new WR8DC Platinum Plus spark plug

1) Remove booth spark plugs
2) Add one additional washer in UR6DC spark plug(no need of replacement) use only spark plug washer which can be reused from any damaged UR6DC
3) Apply the kick 4-5 times
4) Remove the +ve terminal from battery
5) Put ignition key in on position
6) Apply the all electrical function 4-5 times like horn, head light, indicators, front & rear brake light & electrical starter
7) Fit the booth spark plug (WR8DP & UR6DC)
8) Apply the kick 4-5 times
9 Re connect the battery terminal
10) Start the vehicle and put in ideal RPM for 1-2min.



I hope whoever tries the new plug gets positive result.

[adrian]

Originally Posted by Randhawa

@Adrian- No problems buddy, if you have 350 Std that does not mean you are different from us. We all share the same platform so we can help each other.

I wanted to tell you and ask you at the same time about one thing which you might not be aware off. There is a problem with the kick shaft mechanism or commonly known as kick dog. A very small piece which can make the kick redundant and its been modified on the latest Std 350. When did you bought the bike and did it had a sticker on the crank case saying "New Pawl"? Apparently they have redesigned the mechanism and the ones with older version with kick going dead meant opening up the engine to replace a small thing called kick dog. If you don't mind spending a bit more and want a ES then you should consider it. Cost of the conversion is 8k and takes around 2hrs to get the ES fitted.

Problem with the kick dog or Pawl is that its of poor quality material and wears out very fast. The new one is of better quality which should last very long. Its part no 37 in the picture.


Attachment 510931

@Anurag- Thats perfectly normal. It will come and go time to time and if you keep your tank above 4L then lot of noises which are there normally audible enough to make a owner paranoid. So forget about it, nothing to worry. Congrats anyways and welcome to the gang.

@Girishab- Do as Naren suggested and its also possible that you have a loose connector of the fuel level sensor or its gone bad. RE will replace it if you take it to your RE workshop.

@Naren- I wanted to experience it myself too before I could say anything for sure so just got it in the evening. Waiting for the rain to stop so I can go for a ride and give my honest opinion. Just starting the bike gave me very positive results and I just cant wait to go for a ride now. So I'll share my experience by tonight or by tomorrow morning with complete instructions and details.

@ Randhawa.. You sure are in update mode with all the machines. My machine had new pawl sticker attatched to it. I like the orthodox bullet style and am not going for the ES in near future. But I will keep your advice in mind for the future. (Don't want to see my grandchildren see me struggling with the KS ) At old age, finger power is for sure greater than leg power !
Regards Adrian

[classic86]

@Randhawa - I'm not sure if I have those so-called "jerks". My rides in 30-40-55 in 3rd, 4th and 5th gears respectively are pleasant except for occasional lugging around 40. That happens since I'm novice to biking and I have to monitor the speeds regularly to change gears.

However, lately since two days when I depress the clutch the bike is occasionally switching off and comes back to life when I release the clutch. What could be the reason?

One more issue I never checked was that when my friend tried to start the bike using the kick rod, the bike didn't come to life. Till date I have never used the kick rod to start the bike. Yesterday, I followed the RE manual but still the bike can't start with the kick rod. Any serious issue to be concerned with or can I wait till my 2nd service, which is due by this month end even though I'm still at 1600 kms.

Should I get these new plugs since they are just better than the stock ones? Will RE SC change them? I ask that after seeing the tedious installation guide.

[Randhawa]

@Adrian- Oh well you don't have a reason to worry then.

@Classic86- May be you are not that sensitive to bikes behaviour or you got used to it. Sooner or later you will feel it and that's normal.

You should get the wiring checked, never heard that kind of electrical problem so can't comment for sure. Get the neutral light, clutch switch and starter relay wiring checked, they are all interconnected.

There is a style to start a C5, you just need to learn it. Keep trying till you succeed

Don't bother with new plug if you don't have a problem. Reason being that every time the plug is removed, every single time you will have to repeat the tedious process of kicking and removing +ve terminal and all that. Let more people confirm if this plug is worth going for.

[adrian]

@ Classic86 : Kickstarting a bullet, be it new UCE or old CI is a technique that is to be achieved by practice. As a person kickstarting the UCE machine all day I would like to give my two cents.
1.Give a slow push kick till the amps are set right.
2.Get the kicker to a 45 degree angle and one full swing kick with the throttle
closed.
3. As soon as the mill starts to roll, gently give throttle.
4.Turn on the fuel tap only after the engine fires.
Keep the fuel tap open before the engine fires and give the throttle while kicking and you are in for the leg exercise schedule. The overflow raises its ugly head and you will have to pump the excess fuel away by kicking with the fuel tap closed till the machine starts !
Regards Adrian