[EssYouWe]

I don't know what UCE you talk of, but it definitely isn't the 350. :P

And it wasn't exactly a sissy run-in. I just did not jump 100 till 2000. I am not unhappy with my Bull's performance. If anything, I am pleasantly surprised by it. But then again, it just does not feel like a bike that should go too fast. At speeds it vibrates a lot and the wind almost blows you off.
And the way you hear the valve train rattling along after a high speed run, it just takes the fun away.

Ab enough suspense, please reveal the chhota upgrade!

[nasirkaka]

The options being discussed as performance enhancers for the C5 are on a bit expensive side. :( any local "jugaad" ideas for the same?

Hey Randhawa, what is this big bore kit? Will we have to machine and make the dia of the cylinder large, and use a larger sleeve and a larger dia piston? if yes, then we are increasing the CC of the bike. wow. i like the idea. can i convert the 500 pot into a 600? Is there any ready-made kit available to do this? if yes, i think even that will be expensive? Can it be done locally?

Also, this swing arm bush. When the mechanic opened my bike's swing-arm to lubricate, what came out was a plain cylinder (like a thick pin, chrome type finish). where are these bushes located? or am i missing something?

[navpreet318]

I haven't gone through the thread but today i saw a brand new Classic 500.It now sports a 19 inch front wheel with a 90/90 mrf zapper.It also has a new plastic casing in the air filter box which removes any dust getting into the intake from the gapes in the box.

Also riding this new bike i felt a tad more smoothness and a tad more power than the older one on riding them back to back.

Hope you guys are aware of the new changes.

[Randhawa]

@Achint- hey come on, you took your baby way past 2k and kept it under 100. Start riding hard a bit and I'll sort out the vibrations on your bull once I make it to Delhi

Increase in valve terrain noise after a hard ride is news to me anyways I am in love with the clatter, honestly.

@Nasir- big bore with larger piston and carb is easily doable in India. Big bore kit consist of complete block(inc sleeve) with increased dia and bigger piston. Its not available yet but it will be soon. Problem is that the stock ecu wont be able to take care of so much increased CC without an upgraded ecu or converting to carb.

The stock sleeve is quite meaty so it can be enlarged but If you want to keep your stock sleeve then you can buy just the sleeve from Hitchcocks-UK and bore that one. But if you want to bore out the stock sleeve then its easily done in India. Thats the way they do it for oversize pistons when your bore wears out.

Only cost involved would be labour for increasing the bore dia and bigger piston with rings. The piston is available right now to increase the capacity to 535 and for that you can run your stock ECU. Bigger then that will surely need more fuel and stock ECU wont be able to provide that. Wait another 6 months and I am sure there will be few upgrades available from Hitchcocks-UK or the Italian tuner.

The white bushes are placed just on the side of the pivot joint on the swing arm and the pin goes through one side to another.






@Navpreet-Yes we have gone over the upgrades on the new C5. I have got the upgraded parts installed on my bike including the new chain guard, oil filter cap, filter cover, balanced and a tad bit heavier crank except the 19 front.

Your observation is spot on with the new C5. As I have got the new crank so I had observed exactly the same. It's way more smoother then the predecessor.

Hey has Ron dropped the idea of piggy back ECU he was going to make it for C5 or is it still in the pipeline?

I am eagerly waiting for his product.

[virtualhemant]

Originally Posted by Randhawa

@Navpreet-Yes we have gone over the upgrades on the new C5. I have got the upgraded parts installed on my bike including the new chain guard, oil filter cap, filter cover, balanced and a tad bit heavier crank except the 19 front.

@Randhwa: How easy/difficult for you to source spares for C5. I had met with an accedent last month and I am looking for front foot rests (maroon) and few other small parts along with new chain guard, oil filter cap, filter cover :-D
In pune we have pathetic after sales service. Can you believe I have ordered air filter 2 months ago and I am yet to receive it.

[navpreet318]

Aha now i know why the smoothness in the bike.heavier crank would do good to the bike in long rides as it would now need lower rpm to hold speed.

I have no idea about the new developments on his bike.He has been a bit secretive about it.and has been hinting at forced induction.Lets see what comes out of the dungeon.

What extra changes have the export models got which we haven't?

[Randhawa]

My scene with RE was different from the rest at times but still it wasn't that easy. The way things work for sourcing parts from RE is a nightmare and quite lengthy process.
You can get the parts under VOR and you will have to pay for the courier charges excluding the MRP on parts. It should take no more then 10 days to get the parts.

So here is how things work for ordering parts.

1.If ordering under VOR(vehicle off the road), you contact your dealer for said part.
2.Dealer contacts his workshop supervisor who deals in all the parts list and numbers and asks him to order the said part.
3. When the supervisor gets off his lazy A** checks for the correct part no and makes a list of parts required.
4. He then sends the requested parts list to your local RE engineer.
5. When the over loaded RE engineer checks his email for the parts request then he makes a parts request order and sends it off to RE Chennai.
6. Upon receiving the request, it gets processed through the parts department who in their own time process it through SAP(people in there are still not competent enough to use it properly). Engineer gets the VOR number to track the progress
7. Then someone who sees the request of parts on his SAP screen, takes out the said parts without knowing what it should look like or should be(speaking from my experience and they wont care if the part no says throttle cable but the package contains clutch cable or even wiring or even if its damaged) and then dispatches after getting packed through theirs courier services and delivered either by air or road transport depending upon your urgency.

8. If parts ordered not through VOR then it will take a month or so.


Meanwhile lot of times parts are not in stock so it takes even longer specially if the RE engineer is not on to them chasing with the request no.


Your best bet is to get friends with your dealer, supervisor and specially the RE engineer and request for the VOR no if you ever want the parts fast.

Pester your RE RSM and possibly shoot an e-mail to customer service if things get delayed beyond reasonable time limit.

@Navpreet- Actually these all changes are for domestic C5 and the export market hasn't got the new changes yet. Only thing they share on upgrades is the oil filter cap, new upgraded sprag clutch and a better balanced crank. RE wont be giving them 19's soon because it would require RE to get the bikes passed again from their government.

But they still have the advantage of O2 which we can only dream of getting from RE in domestic market. Few things are different on their C5. Italians have different type of front forks. Rest have a smaller sealed dome light. Side stand cut off switch. Only toe shifter. Two catalytic converters in exhaust. Avon tyres.

[adrian]

Originally Posted by EssYouWe

Is this true?
I thought the most backpressure does is prevent the unexploded mixture from entering the exhaust. I always thought that all the popping backfires Bulleteers show off were a result of a lean setting or a free flow exhaust.
Well the articles just declare it to be so, without giving much info to back up their claim. I do feel that with an engine that is unable to adjust fuel flow electronically, back pressure plays a role in the low end torque.

But a technically sound discussion on this topic would be great.

I agree with you friend. Got to get to the bottom of it for the sake of your Machines. AFAIK in 4 strokes the backpressure does not affect the compression aspect with exhaust valves closed. The more I read the more I get confused. The better way is to ask some one who knows ! Any one

[cooded]

Originally Posted by virtualhemant

@Randhwa: How easy/difficult for you to source spares for C5. I had met with an accedent last month and I am looking for front foot rests (maroon) and few other small parts along with new chain guard, oil filter cap, filter cover :-D
In pune we have pathetic after sales service. Can you believe I have ordered air filter 2 months ago and I am yet to receive it.

double it up with pathetic dealers to have a double scoop sundae of frustration, sprinkled with irritating mechanics , and bull**** from every guy even remotely related to RE in Pune.

[ac 427]

hey all,

I did a nice sweet mumbai - pune - mumbai ride on my classic 500. Few things I figured about my bike, few nice few not sot nice at all.

I had done 2 services before the trip so i could for the first time take my bike on triple digits. And this was the first time I was doing a long ride.

The bike felts extremely comfortable till 80kmph. The motor was revving and sounding beautiful. Around 100 kmph the bike was doing fine, but I found the bike unstable at 110 kmph, and could not gather enough courage to push it beyond. The bike was wobbly @ 110kmph. Bit disappointed as I bought this bike for high speed cruising.

Can you guys help me out with a solution for the wobble ?

cheers,
ac

[diwa]

Originally Posted by diwa

Just paid the money for my Classic 500 maroon today. Would be taking delivery by next Thursday/Friday. Am thrilled to lay my hands on the new baby.

The color now has been changed to Black. The bike is going for Registration tomorrow morning and am taking delivery tomorrow evening.

The current system for delivery is that, after registration the bike goes to the service center again for a final round of check up. The service manager has to check and sign off once again that the bike is perfect.

RE is playing it safe with the C500 and taking the extra effort to ensure there is no more goof ups. But lets wait and watch if this makes any difference.

Please note that the showroom is an company owned outlet.

[nasirkaka]

@Nasir- big bore with larger piston and carb is easily doable in India. Big bore kit consist of complete block(inc sleeve) with increased dia and bigger piston. Its not available yet but it will be soon. Problem is that the stock ecu wont be able to take care of so much increased CC without an upgraded ecu or converting to carb.

oh, ok. would prefer to wait and see what comes in the market. Hey, any updates on the total conversion part and process from EFI to Carb on the C5?

The white bushes are placed just on the side of the pivot joint on the swing arm and the pin goes through one side to another.

Got it. They never removed the bushes then. When you say white, do you mean its plastic (nylon)? Looks like a simple piece, can we turn it on lathe in some other material (MS/SS etc) and use it? would that help in high-speed stability?

@Navpreet-Yes we have gone over the upgrades on the new C5. I have got the upgraded parts installed on my bike including the new chain guard, oil filter cap, filter cover, balanced and a tad bit heavier crank except the 19 front.

I wouldn't mind doing the upgrades provided they are worth. I am in good terms with our brand-store service centre manager. Please enlighten on the following:

19" fromt tyre upgrade on the older C5.

would like to do this provided it makes a visible difference in the stability at high-speed. Randhawa, i believe you have already upgraded to the 19", whats your feedback? Cost wise, how much would it approximately cost for this upgrade? i believe we just need to buy the new tyre, and longer stays for the mudguard for the upgrade. Or is there anything else?

Heavier crank upgrade
Would require opening up the engine. Not sure if i want to do that now, as am not sure if the benefits of a heavier crank would overtake the complications involved in the installation and cost. Just for the knowledge, how much would a new crank and its installation cost? are there any other parts to be changed during this upgrade?

Plastic box in the air-filter box
This seems most necessary. Can it be easily retro-fitted to the old C5s, or are there any catches?

Plastic chain guard
My metal one is not troubled me, so would avoid this one.

Oil filter cap:
Do we mean the outer cover? Or the new integrated oil filter assembly? What would be the cost & benefit of opting for this upgrade?

[Randhawa]

@AC- To get rid of wobble, you will have to follow through certain steps.

1. Get the oil in the forks checked and fill it up to 170ml or 195ml in each fork. 170 if you ride on quite rough roads and 195 if you ride it on smooth roads, it will also take care of front diving on hard braking.
2. Get the front T-cone bearings greased and properly adjusted.
3. Check the rear tyre and rim for run out. Rear tyre on our C5 has some issue with run out from factory and replacing them is only the way out.
4. Replace the standard swing arm bushes with the CI bushes for better stability.
5. Or grease the swing arm bushes and align the swing arm properly.
6. Align the swing arm with top mounts of shock absorber.
7. Loosen up the chassis to engine bolts. Rev the engine and let it idle for 10 seconds. Repeat this step 4 times. On 4th time let it idle for a minute. Tighten the bolts.

That should take care of instability for good. The reason behind all of above steps is because even minor miss adjustment on any of the parts will cause the wobble but we are not sure what is causing it unless you do step by step tune up.

@Diwa- At last hey

@Nasir- Will make the price and part list soon of the conversion.

Yes I am talking about the white plastic ones. Yes you can turn them at any lathe but if you want to use any metal then it has to be only bronze. I'll suggest you the CI bushes then anything else. Straight fit with very little grinding.

No I haven't got the 19upgrade. I love the handling of 18's in the city as I drive more in city then highways. Its a bit expensive upgrade as well

Parts you will need for the conversion
Front mudguard(19 one is 2 inch longer)
Stays
C3 speedometer
Tyre
Hub with the rim

Total cost is around 5-7k depending how cheap you can get the front hub with the rim. TBTS 19 shares the same hub and rim. Plenty available from the dealer at quite cheap rate compared to new one from RE.

Dont bother with the heavier crank as its really not that heavy but better balanced.
If you insist then
Crank 9k
3x bearings 1.5K
Gaskets 1k
Labour at RE workshop 2.5k
Engine oil and filter .6k

Not worth the effort until you are going in for a rebuilt.

I had compiled a list of spare parts cost and posted earlier while you were away so have a look at that.

Filter cover- You can not use it with your K&N. You will have to get back to the stock filter. Follow the same procedure of inverting the nut/bolt. A very minor tweak to the filter mounting bolt support strips. You have to do that on the new one too as RE has not thought of it yet and due to that it does not seal filter compartment properly.

Chain guard- you need one only if you are going in for 120 at rear.

Oil filter cap- only if you are going to service your bike yourself in future. Its a complete assembly and you can modify your existing cover too.

[cogentr]

Originally Posted by diwa

Just paid the money for my Classic 500 maroon today. Would be taking delivery by next Thursday/Friday. Am thrilled to lay my hands on the new baby.

Congrats Diwa, I still have a long way to go (probable delivery in May 2011).. by the way when was your booking done?

Ride safe.

[hexanerax]

Originally Posted by adrian

I agree with you friend. Got to get to the bottom of it for the sake of your Machines. AFAIK in 4 strokes the backpressure does not affect the compression aspect with exhaust valves closed. The more I read the more I get confused. The better way is to ask some one who knows ! Any one

Contrary to popular belief, Back pressure will affect the compression. There is a phenomenon called valve overlap that uses the principle of inertia to improve engine breathing. Hot exhaust gases are vented out at a high velocity , a lot of the thermal energy getting converted to kinetic energy as it expands into the low pressure exhaust system. The intake valve opens and the exhaust valve also remains open for a small part of the crank rotation ( few degrees) so that the inertia of the hi velocity exhaust gases can be used to create a lower pressure in the cylinder head , pulling in air at a good rate even as the piston moves down in the intake stroke. This is a function of the exhaust gas velocity and a restrictive exhaust can decrease this effect. But conversely , too free an exhaust system and the exhaust gas velocity will decrease and the advantage is lost. Bernoulli's principle at work ( fluid pressure is inversely proportional to velocity of flow ).
The port diam , the valve stem , intake manifold shape , Air filter and so many variables influence the torque characteristics but generally , free flow ( intake and exhaust ) will tend to reduce low end torque and improve high end power. That is why , if the silencer is fully removed , replaced with a stove pipe design( just a length of pipe ) , the vehicle will not even idle well ( due to extremely poor low end torque) but may show impressive gains at full RPM.
More over , higher exhaust gas velocity results in higher temps on the exhaust valve seal , face and stem and may lead to premature failure. A lot of fun can be had by cam re-phasing , adjusting the intake cam to open the intake valve later in the stroke and leaving it open a few degrees past bottom dead center , even to the point where the piston has started rising in the compression stroke.The fast flowing air stream will continue to fill the cylinder , even against the rising piston till the pressure inside is higher than the kinetic energy of the air stream can overcome.