Royal Enfield Queries

navin_v8 · 21st October 2016, 14:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrayBerry

I have a 2001 350 Machismo, it comes with the AVL engine. Recently got it serviced, but have an issue.

The bike starts on choke, however, once I switch off choke the engine stalls.

2. Changed spark plugs multiple times, however, after running the engine for a few minutes, I find it black with lot of oil residue, as it the bike is running on oil instead of petrol.

Venky mate if you are still running on the original carb I would suggest you to overhaul it completely. Looks like your issue of bike stalling is related to the carb. The overhauling should include checking the jets inside the carb, float, throttle slider/valve, thorough cleaning of the carb, etc.

Your second issue looks like over rich air fuel mixture which makes the spark plugs black. One of the contributing factors to this might be that you keep the choke lever on while riding the bike. The oil deposits on the spark plug suggest that your engine might be burning oil. In short either oil is getting past the piston rings or the valve guides onto your spark plug.

GrayBerry · 21st October 2016, 15:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by navin_v8

Venky mate if you are still running on the original carb I would suggest you to overhaul it completely. Looks like your issue of bike stalling is related to t .. short either oil is getting past the piston rings or the valve guides onto your spark plug.

Hi Navin,
Thank you for your reply.
Currently I am using the original carb. I tried switching to a new one - 500 cc CI carb. However, with the new one, I had a lot of vibration and timing was all messed up. It was as if riding with the choke on.
Hence, switched to the old carb. I cleaned it thoroughly, jet could be a problem as the carb had lot of scales (white sediments) and I used wire brush to clean it.
Moreover, if I keep the fuel tap open, petrol overflows (out of carb), by the way I replaced and tried my best to set the float to stop overflow, but failed.
I will check for oil flow through the inlet valve (head of the engine) and on the carb this weekend. Will keep you posted.
Venky

navin_v8 · 21st October 2016, 15:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrayBerry

Currently I am using the original carb. I tried switching to a new one - 500 cc CI carb. However, with the new one, I had a lot of vibration and timing was all messed up. It was as if riding with the choke on.

Mate it is difficult to come by a new carb which came on RE AVL engines. Some have tried swapping it with Bajaj Pulsar 180 carb but the results aren't as satisfying. Original carb is your best bet IMO.

Quote:

Hence, switched to the old carb. I cleaned it thoroughly, jet could be a problem as the carb had lot of scales (white sediments) and I used wire brush to clean it.

Mate dip the brush in petrol while you clean it. Exercise adequate safety and caution while cleaning it with fresh petrol.

Quote:

Moreover, if I keep the fuel tap open, petrol overflows (out of carb), by the way I replaced and tried my best to set the float to stop overflow, but failed.

Looks like your float bowl is sticking which results in carb spitting out petrol. I had a similar issue on one of my Standard CI 350. I got it resolved after getting the carb overhauled completely.

ArizonaJim · 22nd October 2016, 00:24

GrayBerry

If you are letting the engine warm up a bit after it is started it obviously should not stall when the choke is off.

If this is a new thing that raised its ugly head after the bike was serviced I would guess that the mechanic has messed with the idle fuel mixture adjustment on the carburetor.
Most likely adjusted it so it was leaner than it was before you took it in.
He may have done this to improve the idle on a hot engine but went too far with his adjustment.

If this is true it is a simple thing to readjust it and a good mechanic should be able to do this in a matter of minutes.

Before jumping to the conclusion that you are seeing "oil residue" on the spark plug check out the exhaust when the engine starts.

Is there any evidence of a blue/white smoke coming from the exhaust? (This is the typical color of smoke caused by burning oil. The smoke does not vanish into the air like the steam from the exhaust on a cold morning. Instead, it slowly dissipates and drifts away on the air currents. Think of the exhaust of a 2 stroke engine.)

If there is no noticeable cloud, then you don't have a piston or piston ring problem and most likely the oily looking spark plug tip is a carbon deposit wetted by fuel as the engine was stopping.

The black color on the tip of the spark plug is most likely carbon that developed during starting.
This often happens and if the motorcycle is not ridden some distance to fully heat the spark plug tip after the engine is started, the carbon will not be burned away.

Another common cause of a spark plug developing a carbon build up on it's tip is if a incorrect heat range is being used.

You might try going to a "hotter" spark plug to see if this will reduce the carbon but remember, even a "hot" spark plug needs to be given time to heat up.

Getting back to the oil thing.
If the engine is producing a cloud of smoke like a 2 stroke engine does, either the valve guide seals are defective, or the piston rings are worn out.

Even worn out piston rings can develop enough compression to allow the engine to run.

GrayBerry · 24th October 2016, 16:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArizonaJim

GrayBerry

If you are letting the engine warm up a bit after it is started it obviously should not stall when the choke is off.

Getting back to the oil thing.
If the engine is producing a cloud of smoke like a 2 stroke engine does, either the valve guide seals are defective, or the piston rings are worn out.

Even worn out piston rings can develop enough compression to allow the engine to run.

Hi Jim,
When I start, I get blue / black heavy smoke, I can see sooth settling on my palm when placed against smoke.
Now about the spark plug - I hardly ride the bike for a distance of half a kilometer (0.3 miles) and the bike stops. Repeated attempts to kick start miserably fails. This is when I notice the spark plug black in colour with oil (Thar type). Upon cleaning the plug, I can ride for another half a kilometer and this keeps repeating.
The other day the engine back fired followed by engine stopping, moreover the back fire was through the carb. Noticed this as I had removed the rubber hose between carb and air filter. Does this indicate issue at the inlet valve?
By the way, I am the mechanic for my ride

. It is said in India that if you have a bullet then you are a mechanic

, this is valid for old bikes.
Thanks for you reply,
Venky

ArizonaJim · 25th October 2016, 00:28

GrayBerry

I don't think that the backfiring thru the carb has anything to do with your problem although it can damage the rubber hose you mentioned.

Had you said you saw a "black" smoke, only, I would say that is due to the overly rich air/fuel mixture the engine is getting.

By adding the color "blue" to the description, that says the engine is burning oil.

There are several additives on the market that are supposed to "fix" oil burning but don't bother buying any of them.

They will not fix worn piston rings or oil seals.

That leaves you with getting the piston rings and valve oil seals replaced.

Many shops will want to rebore the engine to a larger size and sell you a piston along with the new piston rings.

Without being there to measure the size and taper in the bore due to wear I cannot say if reboring is needed or not.
If the wear in the bore is not excessive and there are no gouges in its surface, often just replacing the piston rings with new ones and lightly honing the bore with an abrasive to create a shallow crosshatched pattern which helps the new piston rings break in, is all that is needed.

During a rebuild it is also a common practice to lap the valves so they mate with the valve seats and don't leak.
This should be done.

IMO, work in the lower half of the engine should not be needed.

Good luck.

KkVaidya · 25th October 2016, 11:27

I had given my Electra at an authorized station last week for fluid changes and other miscellaneous work. Got a call yesterday that my motorcycle is ready. As there was a pretty long list of TO DO, i was skeptical on total completion of work. Today morning, came to know that they have not changed the clutch oil and brake oil. First the SA told me they they are in good condition and need not be changed. I told him that I want them changed as only i know that clutch oil is 6 years old and brake oil is circa 2002 from the factory. Also they had not added the fuel filter (which was removed by these same idiots 1 year back and i didnt get time to install one). The rubber grommet above the carburetor was also not replaced (it has completely cracked).
I was pretty upset with the response level of my SA & he took me to the workshop guy who first told me that clutch and engine oil are same without checking my motorcycle to which i explained him which he should know. On the fuel filter, he confidently said that RE does not provide any fuel filter to which I again reminded him 2002 (maybe he was in school then). After all the explaining, he told me that fuel filter is not available and company has stopped selling it

.
Then I went to the floor manager who somehow understood my case and told me he will check and let me know on the filter and rubber grommet.
Now when I called my SA one hour back, i asked him to share picture of the clutch and oil change (i doubt if that workshop guy intends to change it) to which he said the clutch oil was already replaced and confessed that only the guy who did the work knew it and it is the same grade (20W50) as the engine oil so not mentioned in the bill separately. For the fuel filter, he said to replace it with a generic make as RE is not available.

It is saddening to know the attitude of the authorized service stations is still pathetic and no one wants to do the job the way it should be done

And I am still wondering whether I can fit a generic fuel filter or not as they are designed to specific fuel requirements.

navin_v8 · 25th October 2016, 12:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by KkVaidya

Today morning, came to know that they have not changed the clutch oil and brake oil. First the SA told me they they are in good condition and need not be changed. I told him that I want them changed as only i know that clutch oil is 6 years old and brake oil is circa 2002 from the factory. Also they had not added the fuel filter (which was removed by these same idiots 1 year back and i didnt get time to install one). The rubber grommet above the carburetor was also not replaced (it has completely cracked).

KkVaidya mate most of the mechanics use the same SAE 20W50 engine oil as clutch oil, I believe the manual recommends SAE 20W40 oil for clutch. Regarding the brake oil you can go for DOT 3 rating of any reputed brand. The glass body fuel filter is easily available in motorcycle spare parts shop. The rubber grommet too would be available in the same spare parts shop. You can buy these stuff on your own if you have time and hand it over to them for replacing. I doubt if the new guys in RE ASS will be aware of working on RE CI engines. A better alternative would be to find a old hand mechanic specializing in RE motorcycles.

The Great · 25th October 2016, 12:31

I have been following this guy on youtube for a few weeks now and he is posting really great DIY stuff.

Very knowledgeable mechanic and the videos are very educative in simple language. It might not be very high tech stuff but the small simple things are really good to know.

Royal Enfield DIY Tips and Info

I am in no way related or associated with him. Just thought of sharing this with fellow bikers here.

Cheers !!

tharian · 25th October 2016, 12:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by KkVaidya

Also they had not added the fuel filter (which was removed by these same idiots 1 year back and i didnt get time to install one).

For the fuel filter, he said to replace it with a generic make as RE is not available.

I guess you are referring to the external fuel filter which is after the fuel tap?
There is already a fuel filter which is part of the fuel tap which is in the tank.

For the external fuel filter, it is available at any two wheeler spare parts shop. As far as I remember, the 2002 Enfields did not come with an external fuel filter, it had a small white can between the fuel tap and carb.

Vikvkv · 25th October 2016, 14:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Great

I have been following this guy on Youtube for a few weeks now and he is posting really great DIY stuff.

Yes I have seen his few videos and the guy genuinely goes out of his way to explain all the process of servicing bikes ourselves. In one video he explained How to reduce the tappet noice by completely dismantling the engine cover. His video on changing engine fluids is great as he has shown process in full detail.

KkVaidya · 26th October 2016, 10:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by tharian

I guess you are referring to the external fuel filter which is after the fuel tap?
There is already a fuel filter which is part of the fuel tap which is in the tank.

For the external fuel filter, it is available at any two wheeler spare parts shop. As far as I remember, the 2002 Enfields did not come with an external fuel filter, it had a small white can between the fuel tap and carb.

Hello Tharian

You are right. The small White Can below the fuel tap and carburetor WAS a fuel filter. Mine had one till 2014 but due the fuel leakage from the pipes, the workshop guys removed it.

farhadtarapore · 26th October 2016, 17:29

I've noticed this since the last couple of days: when I start the bike in the morning (after leaving it parked overnight), the engine starts idling BELOW 1000rpm and there is a "tuck tuck tuck" sound that comes from somewhere. If I turn the throttle slightly, it stalls and dies. But if I leave it in this mode without touching it, after about 30 seconds, the sound disappears and the rpm needle rests at the 1000rpm mark. Is this an issue with all RE EFI bikes on a cold start?

anilp · 26th October 2016, 17:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by farhadtarapore

I've noticed this since the last couple of days: when I start the bike in the morning (after leaving it parked overnight), the engine starts idling BELOW 1000rpm and there is a "tuck tuck tuck" sound that comes from somewhere. If I turn the throttle slightly, it stalls and dies. But if I leave it in this mode without touching it, after about 30 seconds, the sound disappears and the rpm needle rests at the 1000rpm mark. Is this an issue with all RE EFI bikes on a cold start?

How much has your bike run so far? This could have something to do with the valve setting (seating?). If it goes away after the engine warms up, let it be.

farhadtarapore · 26th October 2016, 18:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by anilp

How much has your bike run so far? This could have something to do with the valve setting (seating?). If it goes away after the engine warms up, let it be.

In close to 15 months, the bike has run 5100kms. I use it for my daily commute.

22nd October 2016, 00:24	#2584
ArizonaJim Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Phoenix, Ariz. Posts: 1,200 Thanked: 2,839 Times	Re: Royal Enfield Queries GrayBerry If you are letting the engine warm up a bit after it is started it obviously should not stall when the choke is off. If this is a new thing that raised its ugly head after the bike was serviced I would guess that the mechanic has messed with the idle fuel mixture adjustment on the carburetor. Most likely adjusted it so it was leaner than it was before you took it in. He may have done this to improve the idle on a hot engine but went too far with his adjustment. If this is true it is a simple thing to readjust it and a good mechanic should be able to do this in a matter of minutes. Before jumping to the conclusion that you are seeing "oil residue" on the spark plug check out the exhaust when the engine starts. Is there any evidence of a blue/white smoke coming from the exhaust? (This is the typical color of smoke caused by burning oil. The smoke does not vanish into the air like the steam from the exhaust on a cold morning. Instead, it slowly dissipates and drifts away on the air currents. Think of the exhaust of a 2 stroke engine.) If there is no noticeable cloud, then you don't have a piston or piston ring problem and most likely the oily looking spark plug tip is a carbon deposit wetted by fuel as the engine was stopping. The black color on the tip of the spark plug is most likely carbon that developed during starting. This often happens and if the motorcycle is not ridden some distance to fully heat the spark plug tip after the engine is started, the carbon will not be burned away. Another common cause of a spark plug developing a carbon build up on it's tip is if a incorrect heat range is being used. You might try going to a "hotter" spark plug to see if this will reduce the carbon but remember, even a "hot" spark plug needs to be given time to heat up. Getting back to the oil thing. If the engine is producing a cloud of smoke like a 2 stroke engine does, either the valve guide seals are defective, or the piston rings are worn out. Even worn out piston rings can develop enough compression to allow the engine to run. Last edited by ArizonaJim : 22nd October 2016 at 00:26.
	(1) Thanks

25th October 2016, 00:28	#2586
ArizonaJim Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Phoenix, Ariz. Posts: 1,200 Thanked: 2,839 Times	Re: Royal Enfield Queries GrayBerry I don't think that the backfiring thru the carb has anything to do with your problem although it can damage the rubber hose you mentioned. Had you said you saw a "black" smoke, only, I would say that is due to the overly rich air/fuel mixture the engine is getting. By adding the color "blue" to the description, that says the engine is burning oil. There are several additives on the market that are supposed to "fix" oil burning but don't bother buying any of them. They will not fix worn piston rings or oil seals. That leaves you with getting the piston rings and valve oil seals replaced. Many shops will want to rebore the engine to a larger size and sell you a piston along with the new piston rings. Without being there to measure the size and taper in the bore due to wear I cannot say if reboring is needed or not. If the wear in the bore is not excessive and there are no gouges in its surface, often just replacing the piston rings with new ones and lightly honing the bore with an abrasive to create a shallow crosshatched pattern which helps the new piston rings break in, is all that is needed. During a rebuild it is also a common practice to lap the valves so they mate with the valve seats and don't leak. This should be done. IMO, work in the lower half of the engine should not be needed. Good luck.
	(2) Thanks

25th October 2016, 11:27	#2587
KkVaidya BHPian Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Ahmedabad Posts: 934 Thanked: 771 Times View My Garage	Re: Royal Enfield Queries I had given my Electra at an authorized station last week for fluid changes and other miscellaneous work. Got a call yesterday that my motorcycle is ready. As there was a pretty long list of TO DO, i was skeptical on total completion of work. Today morning, came to know that they have not changed the clutch oil and brake oil. First the SA told me they they are in good condition and need not be changed. I told him that I want them changed as only i know that clutch oil is 6 years old and brake oil is circa 2002 from the factory. Also they had not added the fuel filter (which was removed by these same idiots 1 year back and i didnt get time to install one). The rubber grommet above the carburetor was also not replaced (it has completely cracked). I was pretty upset with the response level of my SA & he took me to the workshop guy who first told me that clutch and engine oil are same without checking my motorcycle to which i explained him which he should know. On the fuel filter, he confidently said that RE does not provide any fuel filter to which I again reminded him 2002 (maybe he was in school then). After all the explaining, he told me that fuel filter is not available and company has stopped selling it. Then I went to the floor manager who somehow understood my case and told me he will check and let me know on the filter and rubber grommet. Now when I called my SA one hour back, i asked him to share picture of the clutch and oil change (i doubt if that workshop guy intends to change it) to which he said the clutch oil was already replaced and confessed that only the guy who did the work knew it and it is the same grade (20W50) as the engine oil so not mentioned in the bill separately. For the fuel filter, he said to replace it with a generic make as RE is not available. It is saddening to know the attitude of the authorized service stations is still pathetic and no one wants to do the job the way it should be done And I am still wondering whether I can fit a generic fuel filter or not as they are designed to specific fuel requirements.
	() Thanks

25th October 2016, 12:31	#2589
The Great BHPian Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Mumbai Posts: 740 Thanked: 943 Times View My Garage	Re: Royal Enfield Queries I have been following this guy on youtube for a few weeks now and he is posting really great DIY stuff. Very knowledgeable mechanic and the videos are very educative in simple language. It might not be very high tech stuff but the small simple things are really good to know. Royal Enfield DIY Tips and Info I am in no way related or associated with him. Just thought of sharing this with fellow bikers here. Cheers !!
	() Thanks

26th October 2016, 17:29	#2593
farhadtarapore BHPian Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Mumbai Posts: 379 Thanked: 275 Times	Re: Royal Enfield Queries I've noticed this since the last couple of days: when I start the bike in the morning (after leaving it parked overnight), the engine starts idling BELOW 1000rpm and there is a "tuck tuck tuck" sound that comes from somewhere. If I turn the throttle slightly, it stalls and dies. But if I leave it in this mode without touching it, after about 30 seconds, the sound disappears and the rpm needle rests at the 1000rpm mark. Is this an issue with all RE EFI bikes on a cold start?
	() Thanks