Supercharged DI 2 stroke on a Fiero

venugopal · 19th February 2009, 19:28

working on a vane type supercharged 2 stroke direct injection engine ,using the fiero engine.Designing one, for some students from kerala.based partly on the lotus design.
cheers
EH

motomaverick · 19th February 2009, 21:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by venugopal

working on a vane type supercharged 2 stroke direct injection engine ,using the fiero engine.Designing one, for some students from kerala.based partly on the lotus design.
cheers
EH

Thats great news....How was the other experiment with supercharger for 4 stroke motorcycle?

Mpower · 19th February 2009, 21:55

Why Fiero?

Would'nt it be much more simpler to start with a existing 2 stroke engine?

Are you planning to use an injector from P220/R15?

dinar · 19th February 2009, 22:26

Great news, project will be ballistic, and why the fireo and not the stroker from TVS? what cylinder and head combo [I mean for the two stoke conversion] And direct injection using what injector and ECM?

rranjith_kum · 19th February 2009, 22:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mpower

Why Fiero?

Would'nt it be much more simpler to start with a existing 2 stroke engine?

Are you planning to use an injector from P220/R15?

Exactly! how are you going to get the ports into the block. I guess the block may need serious working and in worst cases I am worried about its structural integrity.

venugopal · 20th February 2009, 10:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mpower

Why Fiero?

Would'nt it be much more simpler to start with a existing 2 stroke engine?

Are you planning to use an injector from P220/R15?

The project is all about,having the NOx emission of a 2 stroke and CO and HC emissions of a 4 stroke.Therefore there has to be a sump like 4 stroker,and it is goin to be a mechanical injection like a diesel.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rranjith_kum

Exactly! how are you going to get the ports into the block. I guess the block may need serious working and in worst cases I am worried about its structural integrity.

Since the ports are BDC of the piston no such issues.

Quote:

Originally Posted by venugopal

Since the ports are BDC of the piston no such issues.

Quote:

Originally Posted by motomaverick

Thats great news....How was the other experiment with supercharger for 4 stroke motorcycle?

The earlier
one was a roots type and noisy,so making vane type.Did get 1 bar boost on the old one as planned.
cheers

Rennjit · 20th February 2009, 10:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by venugopal

...,having the NOx emission of a 2 stroke and CO and HC emissions of a 4 stroke.Therefore there has to be a sump like 4 stroker,and....

Sir, could you pls share a bit more on the 'Sump requirement' for lower emission ?

rranjith_kum · 20th February 2009, 15:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by venugopal

Since the ports are BDC of the piston no such issues.

Hmmm , how exactly is the air and the fuel mixture going to get to the combustion side !?

venugopal · 20th February 2009, 21:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by rranjith_kum

Hmmm , how exactly is the air and the fuel mixture going to get to the combustion side !?

using the charger for both filling and scavenging.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rennjit

Sir, could you pls share a bit more on the 'Sump requirement' for lower emission ?

so you wont have to lubricate the piston and bearings with 2 t oil.
cheers

Mpower · 20th February 2009, 21:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by venugopal

using the charger for both filling and scavenging.

so you are going to open intake at BDC of the power stroke and fill, exhaust and compress on the upstroke so that you can fire the plug at TDC.

dinar · 20th February 2009, 22:24

So your going use the charger to push in the air and pull out the exhaust , with just open holes through the cylinder block of the engine? so need for a reed valve. And no pumping losses.

venugopal · 21st February 2009, 16:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mpower

so you are going to open intake at BDC of the power stroke and fill, exhaust and compress on the upstroke so that you can fire the plug at TDC.

The injection will happen after the closure of exhaust on the way up,

veyron1 · 22nd February 2009, 23:08

Hm. So you'll be using the supercharger as an EGR propagant of sorts to serve as both the the scavenger and blower.

Lemme get this straight. The ports are at BDC. But the Fiero's crank is not designed to act as a regular 2 stroke pump (as in the normal 2 strokes, where the crank acts as the air-fuel pump to suck in air/fuel and pump it into the cylinder).

So what you intend to do (or are already doing) is place the injector & spark plug at the TDC (head, so to speak), and let the blower do the breathing instead of the crankcase, right? Ignition and injector mapping would be taken care of by customized mapping via CAS (I'm assuming)? And is the blower belt driven or gear-driven?

Suck, squeeze, bang, blow, (pun intended) just like a stroker, I presume..?

I'm wondering of the mechanical efficiency of this thing. Any dynos to check out the output in KW/HP? Could we have sectional cutouts/pics/more details, puh-lease...? This seems interesting...

venugopal · 23rd February 2009, 14:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by veyron1

Hm. So you'll be using the supercharger as an EGR propagant of sorts to serve as both the the scavenger and blower.

Lemme get this straight. The ports are at BDC. But the Fiero's crank is not designed to act as a regular 2 stroke pump (as in the normal 2 strokes, where the crank acts as the air-fuel pump to suck in air/fuel and pump it into the cylinder).

So what you intend to do (or are already doing) is place the injector & spark plug at the TDC (head, so to speak), and let the blower do the breathing instead of the crankcase, right? Ignition and injector mapping would be taken care of by customized mapping via CAS (I'm assuming)? And is the blower belt driven or gear-driven?Is driven off the magnet nut.

Suck, squeeze, bang, blow, (pun intended) just like a stroker, I presume..?

I'm wondering of the mechanical efficiency of this thing. Any dynos to check out the output in KW/HP? Could we have sectional cutouts/pics/more details, puh-lease...? This seems interesting...

yes like i have already mentioned,it is partly based on ltus design.
cheeers

Mpower · 23rd February 2009, 23:08

Mixing will be a challenge. might end up with a stratified situation.

19th February 2009, 19:28	#1
venugopal BHPian Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: bangalore Posts: 69 Thanked: 21 Times	Supercharged DI 2 stroke on a Fiero working on a vane type supercharged 2 stroke direct injection engine ,using the fiero engine.Designing one, for some students from kerala.based partly on the lotus design. cheers EH
	() Thanks

19th February 2009, 21:55	#3
Mpower Senior - BHPian Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Bangalore Posts: 10,399 Thanked: 1,735 Times View My Garage	Why Fiero? Would'nt it be much more simpler to start with a existing 2 stroke engine? Are you planning to use an injector from P220/R15?
	() Thanks

19th February 2009, 22:26	#4
dinar Senior - BHPian Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: goa Posts: 1,066 Thanked: 57 Times	Great news, project will be ballistic, and why the fireo and not the stroker from TVS? what cylinder and head combo [I mean for the two stoke conversion] And direct injection using what injector and ECM?
	() Thanks

20th February 2009, 22:24	#11
dinar Senior - BHPian Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: goa Posts: 1,066 Thanked: 57 Times	So your going use the charger to push in the air and pull out the exhaust , with just open holes through the cylinder block of the engine? so need for a reed valve. And no pumping losses.
	() Thanks

22nd February 2009, 23:08	#13
veyron1 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Mumbai Posts: 1,424 Thanked: 54 Times View My Garage	Hm. So you'll be using the supercharger as an EGR propagant of sorts to serve as both the the scavenger and blower. Lemme get this straight. The ports are at BDC. But the Fiero's crank is not designed to act as a regular 2 stroke pump (as in the normal 2 strokes, where the crank acts as the air-fuel pump to suck in air/fuel and pump it into the cylinder). So what you intend to do (or are already doing) is place the injector & spark plug at the TDC (head, so to speak), and let the blower do the breathing instead of the crankcase, right? Ignition and injector mapping would be taken care of by customized mapping via CAS (I'm assuming)? And is the blower belt driven or gear-driven? Suck, squeeze, bang, blow, (pun intended) just like a stroker, I presume..? I'm wondering of the mechanical efficiency of this thing. Any dynos to check out the output in KW/HP? Could we have sectional cutouts/pics/more details, puh-lease...? This seems interesting...
	() Thanks

23rd February 2009, 23:08	#15
Mpower Senior - BHPian Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Bangalore Posts: 10,399 Thanked: 1,735 Times View My Garage	Mixing will be a challenge. might end up with a stratified situation.
	() Thanks