[shresan23]

I have always been fascinated by automobiles as such, cars, bikes and almost anything on or off wheels.

With cars taking the top spot, bikes, a close second. My growing need to ride bikes have only been increasing with the passage of time and with intermittent rides. I have finally gotten the permission to purchase a bike of my own (with my own money of course, 21 year old on an articleship stipend.)

My budget is stretched to a strict 2 lakhs on road, Chennai. Mileage is not the biggest concern as my duty runs are only 10kms a day. I am buying one for the sheer pleasure of riding. (how B2B traffic will help this, is beyond me, but this is more of a youthful and impulsive decision)

I want a bike that is >200cc. I know I am asking a lot for a beginner, but the sub 200cc bikes just seem so underpowered and weak. They don’t seem like they have the kick. Of course, TDs will take place, once I have lined up bikes from your suggestions, but, my general opinion is that the sub 200cc bikes, are weak. I am open to arguments that change my mind.

I absolutely hate the bikes that look like proper sport bikes. Naturally that brings me to Retro Classics and Cafe Racers.

Now, I guess the list has been condensed.

1. RE - Hunter, Bullet, Classic, Even Meteor if I get a good deal.
2. Jawa and Yezdi
3. TVS Ronin
4. Honda CB350 series (too expensive, unless I get good discounts) (also, please enlighten me as to the material differences in the models)
5. Hero Mavrick and the Harley counterpart (not keen, due to the bad reviews and 440 seems like an overkill
6. Karizma, an exception to the rule, because nostalgia. (would get vehement opposition, due to the pillion seat being placed at the first floor. My 5 footer mom would have to dive onto the bike)
7. Avenger 220 Street

I have been riding an electric scooter for a couple of years now. Planning to keep it, for my dad and other small commutes (and for saving a little bit of petrol cost here and there).

I would also like to look at electric bikes, but I am not too keen. The silent, torque-ey runs and their fascinations have faded. I no longer do pulls from signals, just to show off the torque of an electric motor. So, electric bikes are on the back burner.

Besides, I also have eyes for the Yamaha fz-x, which looks like a cafe racer but is sub 200cc. One of my mates reported a fire issue under his seat, wherein a fire promptly burst out, in the named location. Scary.

Also, on the back burner, is the Pulsar 150, the Classic one from a very famous Tamil movie. If all else fails, bajaj it is.

This is it. Please do give me valuable insights, as to the bike, my choice, whether i should purchase it fresh or seconds, etc.,

[GTO]

Mod Note: Thread moved to the Motorcycle section!

[Ratan Prabhu]

Suggest you to not restrict the choice with engine CC limit. Take a test ride of the Yamaha MT15. It's a lightweight fun bike specially in the city. Lacks pillion support.

If you want more power, check out Honda CB300F. It is also lighweight, more powerful and has good torque. Only disadvantage is I'm not sure how well the BigWing service support will be.

Both the above should cost on road around 2.10L in Chennai.

Best value (performance) for money would have been Pulsar NS400Z but not suggesting as it is a 40bhp bike which may not be ideal as a first bike and it will go up to 2.30L on road Chennai.

Cheers.

[shresan23]

Originally Posted by Ratan Prabhu

Suggest you to not restrict the choice with engine CC limit. Take a test ride of the Yamaha MT15. It's a lightweight fun bike specially in the city. Lacks pillion support.

If you want more power, check out Honda CB300F. It is also lighweight, more powerful and has good torque. Only disadvantage is I'm not sure how well the BigWing service support will be.

The cc limit is not hard, its more of a soft limit. But the looks and body type, is a strict one. I am the biggest fan of cafe racers, bobbers and cruisers and would like my first bike to be along those lines. While the MT15 and CB300F are awesome bikes, (I had personally TD'd them sometime back), it doesn’t really suit my style or preference. I will put a pin on these, if everything else fails. Thank you.

[greyhound82]

I bought a KTM 250 as my beginner bike, and it has been excellent for building both basic and advanced riding skills. Although you need to stretch your budget to around 3 lakhs, the quality is absolutely top-notch and worth the investment.

[anjan_c2007]

The RE range is quite good and these bikes sell. You can select one of your choice. The Jawas and Hondas (Big Wing bikes) are not selling due to obvious reasons and need to be kept at a distance.

TVS Ronin and the Bajaj Pulsar / Avenger ranges are good bikes too. TVS bike components are long lasting but many of the Bajaj bike components conk off even prematurely ( not sure how much they have improvised lately ).

Finally, you can browse through team bhp two wheeler sales on relevant threads. As I have burnt my fingers, I would suggest purchase of a bike that sells well. Spares for the lemon bikes could go out of stock sooner than for the better selling ones.

[hikozaru]

You've got a lot of conflicting wants. A cafe racer with your mother as pillion. Sub 200cc seems too weak to you and yet you are looking at RE350s which are slower than a MT15. What I've realised is torque means nothing if it is not backed up with horsepower. It is the motorcycle equivalent of all bark no bite. You want a cafe racer, get a used R15 (for staying under <2L), strip the fairings, try to source the XSR155 headlight and indicators from outside India

[DarthFader]

I agree with Hikozaru that the wants are quite conflicting, but as you are a beginner in this area its kind of understandable. Even experienced riders go through such dilemmas if they make price as the main defining factor. In your case you got a CC limit.

Anyways, back to your options -
1. RE - Hunter, Bullet, Classic, Even Meteor if I get a good deal.
- I would not recommend Hunter as I do not think its bang for buck. Bullet, Classic and Meteor are solid products but I am not sure if they will be good for you as a beginner or not.
2. Jawa and Yezdi
- I would rather stay away from them because of the quality and service issues. Mahindra/Classic Legends are notorious for acquiring brands and screwing them over. My friend owns a Jawa and I can see its not for someone who uses 2 wheelers daily/frequently. For showoff value and occasional rides, these can be considered.
3. TVS Ronin
- I have heard good things about it but above 80-90 its not a very smooth bike.
4. Honda CB350 series (too expensive, unless I get good discounts) (also, please enlighten me as to the material differences in the models)
- I own a CB350 H'ness currently and I can vouch for its rock solid performance. All in all, it’s a great bike but it’s just a Smoother copy of Bullet with its own ups and downs.
5. Hero Mavrick and the Harley counterpart (not keen, due to the bad reviews and 440 seems like an overkill
- For a beginner 200-350cc is good enough and this does fall in the Overkill zone.
7. Avenger 220 Street
- These are absolute pleasure to ride and the ladies love it too thanks to its approachable pillion seat. Bajaj svc and parts are cheap and easy to maintain. I used to own one for 7 years and the only negative I feel is the cruiser stance which affects your spine in long term.

[BullettuPaandi]

shresan23, the post lacks in detail to really provide any suggestion. The only thing I managed to understand is that, you seem to dislike Naked and faired Sportbikes styling, and are rather drawn towards old-school designs. Other than this, the rest of the post only raises questions.

With what I'm about to type, I know I'm being judgemental here; but kindly understand that I only mean to put this into perspective to you and am fully aware that it may not be the case- You come across as someone who hasn't thought about the usage, needs/wants from the bike, and were rather driven by appeal and perception while making the shortlist.

Kindly add the following:
1. What has been your experience with motorcycles? Specifically, how did you come about to feel/opine '<200cc motorcycles are weak'. Asking because, an MT15 can get you into a lot of trouble; and I wouldn't recommend that to a beginner (at least based on the original post). And given that you seemingly think RE350s are 'powered and strong', I'm highly suspicious of whether your understand what power means. Wouldn't recommend such heavy bikes either because they are too heavy for a beginner. Since you mentioned your age, I feel the pressing need to mention the distinction here: the question is not of 'whether you can ride such a heavy bike', but of 'whether you can handle such a heavy bike, in case of an emergency'; so try not to take it personally.

2. What will your typical usage of the bike be? From your shortlist, it seems like you're looking for a passable city bike, but a decent weekend highway bike. Although I could be wrong here.

3. Where do you find/imagine your ride being 'pleasing'? Long cruises down the highway? Twisty mountain roads? Early morning or late night stints in the city? In other words, 'Raasaali' or 'Senthaazhampoovil' or 'Endrendrum Punnagai'?


P.S. I neither am a fan of 'gatekeeping', nor mean to do so here regardless. You can buy and ride whatever you want to; but make sure that you're wary of what you'd be getting into.

As a general suggestion, <20BHP & <150kg is what I'd recommend for beginners. Contrary to what it seems like on the face of it, this is in fact the sweet spot for beginners looking for performance. Bikes that are <30BHP and appear a class above- at least in the 'classic' design spectrum of bikes that you're looking for- also weigh a hell of a lot for it. So, ultimately the riding experience will be all the same- except for the 'big bike appeal'. Less weight also means that beginners will have an easier time handling the bike, making them more likely to have fun to the fullest of what the bike can offer.

As I'm typing this I'm reminded of a friend from college, who bought an R15 V3 after years of convincing his parents. He offered me to ride his bike to some place we where heading- trying his best to hide the fact that how uncomfortable he was after hours of riding it. I happily obliged anyway, and in the first corner I took with the bike, he exclaimed 'Enna macha padukka pottu edukkara?' Now, I'm no Marc Marquez; I'm not even myself-of-a-rider with a pillion. It was just a little bit of lean at far below legal speeds (his father installed a speed governor from the showroom; the bike won't even get past 90), that scared him. He had ridden thousands of kms on an R15, without bothering to lean while cornering. Because R15 is such a bike; it's not beginner friendly. Top speed is just one part of it, the acceleration it offers can alone be intimidating, and consequently get beginners into a lot of trouble and/or never let the beginner fully grow out of it.

Neither getting into trouble nor never learning out of fear is ideal for a beginner motorcyclist. If the worst thing that can happen is facing an accident, the penultimate to that is getting scared enough to never learn and never be ready to upgrade to bigger bikes that offer so much fun at a fraction of the cost, when compared to equivalent cars.

That being said, never learning and making use of the bike to its fullest, riding in middling RPMs all through its life till the bike has run about 10k km, selling it for a bigger bike and repeating the cycle is all too common in the Indian Motorcycling Scene; the reason young riders don't hear about al this, and only hear about 'how they've thoroughly enjoyed their bike', 'how much fun they've had', is simply due to stigma.

Regardless it just doesn't sound fun to me, and I'd like to share it here, just in case it serves to be helpful to you.

[b16h22]

Originally Posted by shresan23

Besides, i also have eyes for the Yamaha fz-x, which looks like a cafe racer but is sub 200cc. One of my mates reported a fire issue under his seat, wherein a fire promptly burst out, in the named location. Scary.

If Honda is launching the CB190TR which was patented recently here, you might have a good starter sub 200 neo-retro there. But like anything with Honda, it's a gamble. They might not launch it here.

[shresan23]

Originally Posted by hikozaru

You've got a lot of conflicting wants. A cafe racer with your mother as pillion. Sub 200cc seems too weak to you and yet you are looking at RE350s which are slower than a MT15. What I've realised is torque means f-all if it is not backed up with horsepower. It is the motorcycle equivalent of all bark no bite. You want a cafe racer, get a used R15 (for staying under <2L), strip the fairings, try to source the XSR155 headlight and indicators from outside India

The whole point of my mom being the pillion is more of a point of reference rather than a proper restraint as such. While I would be riding solo, I would require a bike that can also comfortably take a pillion on occasion. About the torque, I'll explain what I mean.

Originally Posted by DarthFader

I agree with Hikozaru that the wants are quite conflicting, but as you are a beginner in this area its kind of understandable. Even experienced riders go through such dilemmas if they make price as the main defining factor. In your case you got a CC limit.

CB350: I have personally ridden more than I can admit, and yes, I like it very much. It's just the budget that is the constraint, as is the potentially expensive service and whatnot.

TVS Ronin: I have heard bad reviews about TVS. The point is that since I'm a new owner, I'd need a brand that offers good service while being cheap.

The Hunter: I think it offers good value for money but is more on the rear burner because this is completely impulsive.

Originally Posted by BullettuPaandi

With what I'm about to type, I know I'm being judgemental here; but kindly understand that I only mean to put this into perspective to you and am fully aware that it may not be the case- You come across as someone who hasn't thought about the usage,

My experience with motorcycles is varied, to say the least. In my three years of college, I have ridden a lot of bikes across various terrains and in different conditions (city traffic, highways, etc.).

(Usually bumming a trip off of college mates. While i havent owned a bike per se, my accumulated experience should easily exceed thousand or more kilometers, shared across different bikes. I know that it is hilariously low, but, yes, i have some experience.)

As far as the power goes, as far as I have observed, some bikes are all show and no steam. They rush to ~60 and run out of steam if pushed. The other ones take a little longer to reach ~80 ~ or 90 but can hold it happily.

Now, I have observed that sub-150cc bikes fall into the first category. They are very peppy and eager to sprint. They are light and nimble. But they all feel like toy bikes. They feel very torque-ey and like to jump.

The second type are the ones that seem more refined, controlled, and muted. They give you the rush and the thrill, only when you open up the throttle, not whenever.

Since i have marginally more experience in cars, than bikes, i would like to articulate, using cars as an example. (apples and oranges, but it should make sense, in some level)

I'd like to explain this by explaining the difference between a 1L turbo and a 1.5L (NA or turbo)

My usage is a bike that can handle city traffic and city commutes while also handling longer drives on occasion.

As far as pleasing goes, all three

The handling aspect.

I have found myself being able to handle REs and CBs a lot better than the MTs, Gixxers, and Pulsars. Once, On the same route (up and down), I rode RE on the way up and R15 on the way down. (20 odd kilometers one way) Coming from a regular car driver, I handled the RE much better than the R15. The latter kept jumping, and I constantly over-revved it, shifting at the wrong rpm, etc. But the RE was smooth. I was almost always in band (sub consciously), shifting was smooth, acceleration was muted in traffic and i was also able to gratify myself by opening up the throttle when the situation presented itself. I don't know if it is my driving style or my consequent adaptation of the car driving style, but the heavier bikes satisfy me more than the sportier and lighter bikes ever have.

I seem to have rustled quite a bit of feathers with this one.

[Mukunthan91]

Do check out Hunter 350. It's a beginner friendly motorcycle and easy on pocket. I have been using hunter 350 since December 2022 and I have completed 35k km. I have have no complaint with the bike. For city commutes and short highway runs it's perfect. The new J series engine is joy to ride with ample low end torque.

[doomketu]

Originally Posted by BullettuPaandi

Where do you find/imagine your ride being 'pleasing'? ..
'Raasaali' or 'Senthaazhampoovil' or 'Endrendrum Punnagai'?

I genuinely laughed at this , because that was a similar way in which I spoke to someone recently who wanted to buy a bike in my native place. They ended up settling for a Bullet 350.

Originally Posted by BullettuPaandi

As a general suggestion, <20BHP & <150kg is what I'd recommend for beginners.

I too share this opinion. While "melnaatu" folks with access to fantastic road and disciplined drivers will suggest on YouTube or insta that if you are buying a beginner bike then get a RS457 or a Duke 390, but for Indian conditions its more prudent to start small and go big at a later time.
That said for your scenario you will not go wrong either with a Hunter 350 ( though i will suggest the Bullet ( personal love biasing my opinion here)) or if you want pillion comfort as well as some excitement, an RTR 200. I am not a big fan of the Ronin.

[BullettuPaandi]

I'm frankly confused. Your latest post reads to me as if you are looking for an under-powered motorcycle.

I used to own a 2013 Classic 350. When the opportunity presented itself and I opened up the throttle, I only remember the bike saying "Yeah, right". I did have an easier time commuting on it to the office, than the FZ15 I used to own before that, simply because of the seating, ergonomics, better low-end pull, etc.

It seems to me like what you're looking for is simply 'long strokes', that feel substantial but comparatively aren't all that. Usually, people use the words 'feels torque-ey' to describe only this kind of bikes. Usually, people also don't describe what they're looking for as 'not under-powered, weak and lacking in kick', when they're actually looking for is something that is 'muted in acceleration'.

Anyways, going by your latest post, only the RE350s really satisfy all that you're looking for. Pick one based on ergonomics, suspension and design preferences etc.

[hikozaru]

Originally Posted by shresan23

As far as the power goes. As far as i have observed, there are bikes that are all show and no steam. They are the ones that rush to ~60 and run out of steam if pushed. The other ones are the ones that take a little longer to reach ~80 ~90, but can hold it happily.

Now, i have observed that sub 150cc bikes fall under the first category. They are very peppy and are eager to sprint. They are light and nimble. But they all feel like toy bikes. They feel very torque-ey and like to jump.

The second type, are the ones that seem more refined, controlled and muted. They give you the rush and the thrill, only when you open up the throttle, not whenever.


the heavier bikes satisfy me more than the sportier and lighter bikes ever have.

The cheapest bike that does all this is the RS457. The third gear on that bike goes from just over speed bumps speed to the speed limit. It is at least 20-30kg heavier than 150cc bikes depending on the make, holds 80 happily on the highway and being a sportsbike, the front stays planted and you never get the jumpy feeling from the throttle and the rear stays planted too as long as the rear ABS is on. Perhaps you should mod the RS457 into a cafe racer.