[safari_lover]

Any guesses why Hero went with the 210cc instead of the 250cc engine? Looking at their portfolio it looks like the 210 will only serve the Xpulse. The Karizma will soon move to the 250.

[b16h22]

Originally Posted by safari_lover

Any guesses why Hero went with the 210cc instead of the 250cc engine? Looking at their portfolio it looks like the 210 will only serve the Xpulse. The Karizma will soon move to the 250.

My guess is, they were well into the developement of the 210s and started the work on the 250s more recently after the failure of ZMR 210. And probably also due to the fact that they wanted really clear daylight between the market placement of the upcoming 421 xpulse and the 210 xpulse.

[nasirkaka]

Originally Posted by BullettuPaandi

I think it was an optional accessory even with the old 200. If I remember correctly, it reduces ground clearance by about 10mm and of course not including it as standard helps them with a 'lower' launch price. I seem to recall opting for it when I bought a 200 4V.

Damn! I have a center stand on my 200 BS4 Xpulse (matt green one) and always thought the bike came with it. I still dont remember ordering them as an accessory. Anyhow, all is well as long as Hero gives them as an accessory. And yes, the center stand does foul with tall speed-breakers with a pillion. Never had any major issues riding offroad with the center stand.

Originally Posted by Ganapathy

It is really disappointing that Hero is not offering tubeless tyres even as an optional accessory. Moreover they must have launched with the 250 cc engine

I Feel the noise around tubeless spoke tyres are sort of blown out of proportion. Every vlogger/ influencer has to mention the lack of it as a generic negative on any bike that comes with regular spokes and tube. And that is started affecting our psychic. We have done ok with tubes for 75+ years and can manage a few more.

I am not against the tubeless spoke configuration and would love to have them on my bike, but at what cost? Bikes such as Xpulse is projected as budget bikes in the dual sport category. Our market is very price sentitive and tubeless spokes would push the price high. We still do not know how RE is managing to gives tubeless spokes as an accessory on H450 for some 10-12k? Maybe a strategic move to loose some money to gain some trust/market cap/something else. RE is a cash rich company, financially doing well so can afford such strategies. It is for sure that the pair of tubeless alloy rim, the spokes, the hub and also the brake disk is definitely more then 12k.

A friend (also a BHPian) owns a garage servicing mainly RE bikes. He also did many a tubeless conversion to the initial batches of H450. These days, hes been getting cases of tubeless setup with loose spokes on the H450. So the design / manufacturing of low-cost tubeless spokes still may require some maturity.

When Karizma was first launched with front disk brake, we all wished other bikes to have them and these days, even basic bikes and some bicycles too sport them. Same is the case with ABS, where these days a lots of basic bikes also have them. So give some time, the market will saturate and tubeless spokes configuration will be more accessible and economically viable option to be adopted across simpler / entry level bikes as well.

[prakash_ajp]

Originally Posted by nasirkaka

I Feel the noise around tubeless spoke tyres are sort of blown out of proportion. Every vlogger/ influencer has to mention the lack of it as a generic negative on any bike that comes with regular spokes and tube. And that is started affecting our psychic. We have done ok with tubes for 75+ years and can manage a few more.

Well, men lived without motorcycles for centuries. Can we imagine that now? Providing the tubeless spoke as an option will never hurt them, will it?

Having used a tubeless setup for a while now and used to fixing flats on my own, now it's hard to imagine taking a gamble with tubes. In fact, for a user like me, who's never going to do hard off-road, a bike like this even with an alloy is enough. I often ride in the hills and sometimes on bad roads in remote places. Ending up with a flat is a nightmare for me. Even if you ride in a group, if you have a flat in a remote place, what do you do? Getting a puncture is more common than you think, IMO.

And what's up with the logic of making center stand optional and then coming up with tubed tyre set-up?

[Vagabond27]

Originally Posted by nasirkaka

I Feel the noise around tubeless spoke tyres are sort of blown out of proportion. Every vlogger/ influencer has to mention the lack of it as a generic negative on any bike that comes with regular spokes and tube. And that is started affecting our psychic. We have done ok with tubes for 75+ years and can manage a few more.

Another thing that is blown out of proportion these days is lack of USD suspension when a new bike is launched.

[nasirkaka]

Well, men lived without motorcycles for centuries. Can we imagine that now? Providing the tubeless spoke as an option will never hurt them, will it?

Tubeless spoke will not hurt us but the associated cost may, especially for entry level dual sport budget bikes like xpulse. The new Xpulse 210 is already costing 1.76L Ex for base version which translates to something like 2.25L in cities like Bangalore, not that affordable by any means. I bought my XPulse in 2022 for an onroad price of 1.48L including some festival season discount.

Secondly, we have to understand the complexity involved in manufacturing of the tubeless spoke rims. Essentially there are two types of Tubeless spoke wheels, Type A where the spokes converge towards the center of the rim and Type B where they diverge towards the end of the rim, as shown in the picture below.



By design and production process, these tubeless spokes are much more complex compared to a traditional sheet metal roll-formed rim with spokes, or even a pressure die casted single piece alloy wheel (no spokes). The Stress/strain forces at joineries are tremendous and the metallurgy and composites have to have very high quality to adhere to the abuses these dual sport bikes are subjected to. All this eventually comes at a high premium. Not to mention other complexities such as truing/ balancing of those wheels.

Inspite of very high standards, there are many cases of these tubeless alloys cracking/bending. For eg, below is a case from Africa Twin where just the tubeless alloy setup costs upwards of 1.5L.



I have done some trail rides with a few Xpulse groups and the harsh conditions/torture the wheels are subjected to, anything sort of very very good tubeless spoke setup will not hold but crack in no time.

Having used a tubeless setup for a while now and used to fixing flats on my own, now it's hard to imagine taking a gamble with tubes. In fact, for a user like me, who's never going to do hard off-road, a bike like this even with an alloy is enough. I often ride in the hills and sometimes on bad roads in remote places. Ending up with a flat is a nightmare for me. Even if you ride in a group, if you have a flat in a remote place, what do you do? Getting a puncture is more common than you think, IMO.

That is where bikes variants such as Xpulse 200T or Scram 411/440 exist where they come factory fitted with alloy wheel. One can assess the kind of ride he does and choose an alloy over spokes if there is not much serious offroading involved. Most alloys these days are good enough to sustain good amount of beating, for eg, ktm 390 advs, GS310, Vstorm 250, Scram 400X and the likes.

[b16h22]

Originally Posted by nasirkaka

Inspite of very high standards, there are many cases of these tubeless alloys cracking/bending.

Already came across two different cases of spokes getting loose or damaged on tubeless H450s on social media with a couple more experiences from two other owners in the comment sections.

[prakash_ajp]

Originally Posted by nasirkaka

That is where bikes variants such as Xpulse 200T or Scram 411/440 exist where they come factory fitted with alloy wheel. One can assess the kind of ride he does and choose an alloy over spokes if there is not much serious offroading involved. Most alloys these days are good enough to sustain good amount of beating, for eg, ktm 390 advs, GS310, Vstorm 250, Scram 400X and the likes.

You know, I once seriously considered the VStrom SX and the Gs310 and would have already bought the latter if only BMW were not adamant on selling a 6-year-old model without any updates and the high service cost. I am already using my H'ness like one would use a scrambler. So, an adventure is what I think will be cool

Personally, I am more in favor of a regular alloy rather than a tubeless wheel. Just wondering if there are many options available for bike alloys in Indian market.

[BullettuPaandi]

Originally Posted by nasirkaka

Tubeless spoke [...]

Adding to this post, Tubeless spokes are also more prone to damage than even regular alloys, as the assembly/installation of them is more complex, which adds another layer of things that can go wrong with them due to carelessness or lack of strict QC, even though Tubeless Spokes are supposed to be more rugged than regular alloys by design. Other than the Rim material and design nasirkaka has shared,

• Spoke tension matters more in the tubeless spoked wheels than regular tubed spoke wheels. Improper tension will result in both high pressure point on one end of the rim, and a weak point on the wheel, likely on the opposite end. A poorly tensioned wheel from the assembly would already be under enough of a risk on-road, and off-road impacts only amplify this despite the likely lower speeds.
• There's also some sort of sealant on the insides of the tubeless spoked wheels that hold the air in. Improper installation of this will obviously result in similar pressure points as the transfer of impact throughout the rim will be uneven. Over use of sealant will result in an unbalanced wheel, which is less desired for the asking price, even though this can be fixed- I won't like having pieces of metal stuck on my wheels if I paid over 1.5L for them (as the Africa Twin wheel pictured above).
• Some spokes and sealants are better suited for this application and last a lot longer. These incidentally cost a lot more too, which is why I'm particularly sceptic of tubeless spokes on relatively affordable bikes. Especially given that even the expensive ones seem to be not quite reliable due to QC issues, the overall proposition remains questionable at best to me.

As with everything in Motorcycles, this is a yet another 'pick your poison' situation ultimately. I, personally, like to stick with alloys as I find them good enough for the off-road usage we typically do; and if a bike looks particularly good on spokes, I'd rather have them with tubed tyres. Because I don't trust the assembly workers nearly as much as I appreciate the Engineers and Designers trying to solve a problem with the tubeless spoked wheels.

[Ganapathy]

Originally Posted by nasirkaka

I Feel the noise around tubeless spoke tyres are sort of blown out of proportion. Every vlogger/ influencer has to mention the lack ....

I am not against the tubeless spoke configuration Our market is very price sensitive and tubeless spokes would push the price high...

I totally agree with you regarding the cost factor pertaining to a tubeless spoke configuration. However, as part of a clan, wherein, even mild off roading is seldom attempted, I would have loved to have a choice of tubeless alloys either as an optional accessory or in the form of a variant .

[Uqaab]

Any idea when the reviews are coming? Are the bookings started?

[GunShot007]

Originally Posted by Uqaab

Any idea when the reviews are coming? Are the bookings started?

Bookings will start in February it seems

[RoadToHappiness]

March 20th it is.



Source: Hero Moto Corp's Twitter feed (as replied to someone's query)

[RoadToHappiness]

Looks like media rides have started.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRGyc63nNOo

Source: 91Wheels

[jetsetgo08]

I think Hero have a winner this time. The 210cc in the Karizma XMR was a cracker of an engine w.r.t performance. And I would not doubt if the Hero 250cc will whack the KTM 250's when it comes to performance, may be even the TVS 300/310's. The only thing they got to worry about would be the refinement, as with every leap in performance the engine tends to get coarser. The Karizma XMR suffered with this, engine heat in traffic, and coarse sounds etc. No wonder we don't see them as many on the road.