[TusharK]

Hero MotoCorp has discontinued the Xpulse 200T and Xtreme 200S for the Indian market. Both models have already been delisted from the brand’s official website.



The Hero Xpulse 200T was launched in 2022 as a slightly off-road-orientated version of the Xpulse 200 ADV. The bike came with a digital instrument console with smartphone connectivity, an under-seat USB charger, a gear indicator and a side-stand engine cut-off.



The Xtreme 200S was a semi-faired motorcycle with a more sporty design. Both bikes were powered by a 200cc, single-cylinder engine producing 18.8 BHP @ 8,500 rpm and 17.3 Nm @ 6,500 rpm. The engine is paired with a 5-speed gearbox.

The Xpulse 200T was priced at Rs 1.30 lakh, while the Xtreme 200S cost Rs 1.41 lakh (ex-showroom) when it was on sale.

Link to Team-BHP News

[BullettuPaandi]

Originally Posted by TusharK

The Hero Xpulse 200T was launched in 2022 as a slightly off-road-orientated version of the Xpulse 200 ADV.

Minor correction: 200T was the road-oriented one.

I'm surprised it took them this long; especially the "sporty" 200S. I understand they were trying to make an 'accessible' XPulse, but the bike looked funnier than even the XPulse, and more so in person. The 200cc mill isn't really all that enticing to begin with, for say a potential Xtreme 160R customer.

[fhdowntheline]

Looks like the X Pulse 200T particularly was the pet child of some senior engineer in the company and was the bête noire of the sales team. Twice over, the bike was launched, but never marketed at all by HM. It is really puzzling strategy. I briefly test drove it and found it to be a easy, decent bike.

[FlankerFury]

Should've made the 200T a supermoto instead of whatever it was.

[venukrithish]

I particularly liked the way 200S looked when it first came out. But I'm honestly surprised it took them this long. These have been sales duds for years now with little to no marketing. The 210cc is the way to go forward. It's a proper stepup from 160R.

[Samarth 619]

If Xtreme 200S proved anything, it was that Hero has no idea how to make sportsbikes. Its better discontinued. I was considering one a few years back, but luckily noticed these things:-

1. A single seat is forgiveable because maybe Hero wanted practicality. Fine.
2. The rear view mirrors are on handlebars on a full faired bike.
3. I don't remember how the console looked. I think this is enough of a sign that it was nothing special.
4. No tech innovation at all, except for 4 valves instead of 2. Thank you Hero ji.
5. Air cooled engine. Yes sir, mostly only Hero and Honda dare put an air starved, sorry, air cooled engine in a fairing.
NOTE: What you may perceive as a radiator is just an oil cooler. The older Pulsar 200/220 were the first bikes with this, but it was rather oddly marked "Oil Cooled"... The engine wasn't oil cooled, I mean who uses blistering hot oil to cool an engine. Maybe they meant, Oil is cooled? I guess.

It's like a streetbike was given a full fairing.

XPulse was better received than its 150cc brother before it (which touched only 98kmph top end), but again the market has moved ahead, and it wasn't even a proper off roader to begin with.

[BullettuPaandi]

Originally Posted by Samarth 619

Air cooled engine. Yes sir, mostly only Hero and Honda dare put an air starved, sorry, air cooled engine in a fairing.
NOTE: What you may perceive as a radiator is just an oil cooler. The older Pulsar 200/220 were the first bikes with this, but it was rather oddly marked "Oil Cooled"... The engine wasn't oil cooled, I mean who uses blistering hot oil to cool an engine. Maybe they meant, Oil is cooled? I guess.

Not sure if I understand this. Aren't all 'oil cooled' engines cooled via the engine oil? What you say reads as if there are bikes with dedicated oil just for cooling(?), that is not the engine oil. Expecting engine oils to dissipate heat as well, does age them quick. But having a dedicated oil for cooling just to solve this, sounds like a bit of a complicated solution for that. Besides, if there's going to be a dedicated channel in the engine block, for the cooling oil to go through, won't you might as well liquid cool the engine? Regardless, never heard of such a system (if that's really what you are saying, that is).

Also, aerodynamics aside, directing more air on to an engine is part of the reason why sportbikes started developing fairings. If you think about it, back when all bikes were only air cooled, sportbikes would've been better off without the fairing if it'd result in the engine overheating.

[Samarth 619]

Originally Posted by BullettuPaandi

Not sure if I understand this. Aren't all 'oil cooled' engines cooled via the engine oil? What you say reads as if there are bikes with dedicated oil just for cooling(?), that is not the engine oil. Expecting engine oils to dissipate heat as well, does age them quick. But having a dedicated oil for cooling just to solve this, sounds like a bit of a complicated solution for that. Besides, if there's going to be a dedicated channel in the engine block, for the cooling oil to go through, won't you might as well liquid cool the engine? Regardless, never heard of such a system (if that's really what you are saying, that is).

Also, aerodynamics aside, directing more air on to an engine is part of the reason why sportbikes started developing fairings. If you think about it, back when all bikes were only air cooled, sportbikes would've been better off without the fairing if it'd result in the engine overheating.

Ok, so I might've used unclear words. No, there was no cooling oil- it was the engine oil only I was referring to. Pulsar 200 and 220 with "Oil Cooled" marking implied that the circulator & radiator-like grill tried to cool its oil. But it was smaller than even this Hero bike.

A proper Liquid cooled engine uses the radiator to cool off the coolant (its not an oil) which passes through its dedicated sleeves, so its comparatively a lot more effective than cooling the oil.

As we're talking air cooled engines, air anyways cools the engines' crankcase. Taking the oil outside the crankcase to cool it and return it back, might help marginally, but the oil remains hot anyways. I don't see it as effective or maybe even diserable, although I don't have research of my own to back this claim.

As for fairing resulting in heating, the general talk on forums has always been that fairings are made to deflect air towards the outside and thus the velocity of air reaching the engine is reduced. Fairing is not designed to increase air drag on engine, in fact, its designed to reduce it (for aerodynamics). However, I could be wrong here, so please check.
The older Karizma ZMR always faced flak regarding this, a fairing on an air cooled engine, but it was anyways a low compression, medium rev, square engine, not likely to overheat anyways.

[BullettuPaandi]

Originally Posted by Samarth 619

Ok, so I might've used unclear words. No, there was no cooling oil- it was the engine oil only I was referring to. Pulsar 200 and 220 with "Oil Cooled" marking implied that the circulator & radiator-like grill tried to cool its oil. But it was smaller than even this Hero bike.

A proper Liquid cooled engine uses the radiator to cool off the coolant (its not an oil) which passes through its dedicated sleeves, so its comparatively a lot more effective than cooling the oil.

As we're talking air cooled engines, air anyways cools the engines' crankcase. Taking the oil outside the crankcase to cool it and return it back, might help marginally, but the oil remains hot anyways. I don't see it as effective or maybe even diserable, although I don't have research of my own to back this claim.

As for fairing resulting in heating, the general talk on forums has always been that fairings are made to deflect air towards the outside and thus the velocity of air reaching the engine is reduced. Fairing is not designed to increase air drag on engine, in fact, its designed to reduce it (for aerodynamics). However, I could be wrong here, so please check.
The older Karizma ZMR always faced flak regarding this, a fairing on an air cooled engine, but it was anyways a low compression, medium rev, square engine, not likely to overheat anyways.

I don't understand what you find different between "radiator-like grill" & "the radiator". Both are structurally and functionally same- they channel liquid (coolant or oil) through fins, increasing surface area that faces incoming air, thus cooling it. If needed, a dedicated fan can also be used on it, to help in traffic.

What you describe for the "proper liquid cooled engine", is the same that goes for oil cooled ones. What I disliked about the Oil cooled Pulsars though, is that their engines use heavier engine oil (20W 50 if my memory serves), which isn't quite ideal for this application. As heavier the oil gets (in operating temperatures), its ability to flow through the tiny fins won't be as effective as lighter oils. So, won't result in the best cooling possible for an oil cooled system. I always felt like while developing the engine, they found out the air cooling isn't cutting it, and decided to slap an oil cooled system on top of it, instead of liquid cooling and increasing cost and complexity.

Air cooling on an engine happens on the cylinder and head, where the combustion happens. This is why you see fins on the cylinder and head, to increase surface area and dissipate heat better.

You are right that directing air on the engine would increase drag, but it is necessary; especially on sportbikes. As I mentioned earlier, if this wasn't part of the function, why would the sportbikes of only-air-cooled-engines era have gone with it and risk overheating and losing the race? Even disc brakes add drag; but it's still the better option as it keeps the component cooler.

On a motorcycle, predominant drag is caused only by us. So, a windshield would do for the most part of the aerodynamic requirement. This is why Cafe Racers, whose only philosophy is to look sleek and simple but ride fast, often sport just a windshield. This technically goes against looking simple as a bike can be, but it adds for the function of going fast, while being simple enough.

I wasn't much into motorcycles back in the Karizma days, I guess there's a possibility that Karizma's fairing wasn't developed with enough thought, but highly doubt this is the case, as aerodynamics was fairly well established at this point. I think it's more likely that there were issues with the engine itself, that we mistakenly associated with the fairing.

Anyways, to add something on topic, the 200S had the value-for-money going for it. Problem was just that it was the only thing going for it, which just so happened to be something that customers of such bikes aren't particularly keen on. The R15, on the other hand, was such a powerful, refined and well sorted out machine, which despite multiple price hikes had ardent following because of what it offered even as a 150cc bike. So, the 200S never stood a chance and was largely dead in the water.

[Samarth 619]

Originally Posted by BullettuPaandi

I don't understand what you find different between "radiator-like grill" & "the radiator". Both are structurally and functionally same- they channel liquid (coolant or oil) through fins, increasing surface area that faces incoming air, thus cooling it. If needed, a dedicated fan can also be used on it, to help in traffic.

What you describe for the "proper liquid cooled engine", is the same that goes for oil cooled ones. What I disliked about the Oil cooled Pulsars though, is that their engines use heavier engine oil (20W 50 if my memory serves)........................................... .......... aren't particularly keen on. The R15, on the other hand, was such a powerful, refined and well sorted out machine, which despite multiple price hikes had ardent following because of what it offered even as a 150cc bike. So, the 200S never stood a chance and was largely dead in the water.

Yes that's right, 20W50 it was. I said radiator like grill, because I never ever considered "oil is cooled slightly" system a good one to cool the engine. Call it my perception, but so it is.
If oil cooling using this method was this effective, wouldn't the Japs and Italians be after it? Specially considering their motorcycle's high compression ratios?

I think, concluding that older machines used fairing because it gave better airflow to engine, is a logical fallacy in itself.
Older machines rarely revved higher than 8krpm, and had tolerable compression ratios like 7:1. (Today, a modern liquid cooled engine has around 13:1 CR, even a commuter has 9.5:1 CR).
Plus, lax pollution norms meant that most of them were rich tuned, and not as lean as they are today. All this meant a cooler engine anyways.
How can such an engine overheat in normal riding?

A fairing is always shaped narrow in front of the bike and wider as it goes back, this will never ever put windforce on the engine, in fact it will divert it outside.
The kind of windflow that you desire, it will only come from a disproportionate fairing, which is wider in front and narrower towards the rear, like a wide-mouth hole. I haven't see one like it anywhere.

I wouldn't comment on the market's response to R15. Maybe it looks better to more people? Maybe the Yamaha name? Who knows why it sold more? We need to research to find more about this, something like a public survey.

[BullettuPaandi]

Originally Posted by Samarth 619

[...] concluding that older machines used fairing because it gave better airflow to engine, is a logical fallacy in itself [...]

A fairing is always shaped narrow in front of the bike and wider as it goes back, this will never ever put windforce on the engine, in fact it will divert it outside.
The kind of windflow that you desire, it will only come from a disproportionate fairing, which is wider in front and narrower towards the rear, like a wide-mouth hole. I haven't see one like it anywhere.

Not what I said; I only called it "part of the reason, besides aerodynamics".

Again, never said I desired 'windforce'. The 'proportionate' fairing- narrow at the front and relatively wider at the rear- is in fact the one that'll cool the engine better, by allowing cold air to expand as it warms up. The 'disproportionate' one would only trap hot air in more than it lets out- and obviously worse at aerodynamics as well. Cooling is more about venting than intake.

I think the words "direct more air on to an engine" from my earlier post, caused this misunderstanding. I probably should've used better words. Hope this post clarifies it. Anyways, aerodynamics is a complicated topic, and I can't explain any better than this. So, will leave it here.

[RD410]

Originally Posted by BullettuPaandi

The 200cc mill isn't really all that enticing to begin with, for say a potential Xtreme 160R customer.

Well, I've not ridden the earlier versions, but I recently took the latest bs6.2 (E20) 4v Xpulse on a 300+kms ride and I was grinning ear to ear the whole time Hero has nailed the power delivery this time, it feels like a proper rally bike. It's quite a feat I would say as there is power everywhere in the revv band and in every gear including 5th. There comes a surge in power from 6k all the way till 9k rpm, wherein the exhaust note changes and the bike pulls even more strongly like a hooligan! For eg: at 6k rpm in 5th, it does 80kph, then you give throttle and it pulls relentlessly till 110kph in 5th gear itself. It's power delivery truly surprised me as other air cooled singles usually die post midrange. Other bikes in the group were FZ25, RTR200, NS200, etc. but they were having a hard time keeping up with the Hero. Overall, it's behaviour reminded me of the RX's and Shogun's fitted with expansion chambers and stuff. And other thing that reminded me of those mad 2 strokes was the (lack of) refinement of Xpulse's engine

In short, Xpulse's engine feels like a dirt bike engine. Fun - yes, but not really suitable in a street bike. Other's, say an RTR200 is far more smoother and refined than Xpulse.

[BullettuPaandi]

Originally Posted by RD410

Well, I've not ridden the earlier versions, but I recently took the latest bs6.2 (E20) 4v Xpulse on a 300+kms ride and I was grinning ear to ear the whole time Hero has nailed the power delivery this time, it feels like a proper rally bike. It's quite a feat I would say as there is power everywhere in the revv band and in every gear including 5th. There comes a surge in power from 6k all the way till 9k rpm, wherein the exhaust note changes and the bike pulls even more strongly like a hooligan! For eg: at 6k rpm in 5th, it does 80kph, then you give throttle and it pulls relentlessly till 110kph in 5th gear itself. It's power delivery truly surprised me as other air cooled singles usually die post midrange. Other bikes in the group were FZ25, RTR200, NS200, etc. but they were having a hard time keeping up with the Hero. Overall, it's behaviour reminded me of the RX's and Shogun's fitted with expansion chambers and stuff. And other thing that reminded me of those mad 2 strokes was the (lack of) refinement of Xpulse's engine

In short, Xpulse's engine feels like a dirt bike engine. Fun - yes, but not really suitable in a street bike. Other's, say an RTR200 is far more smoother and refined than Xpulse.

From what I've read about this newer BS bikes, they'll be better efficient with the current widely available E20 fuels and at a lower risk of knocking, for sure. Will have to take it from you if Hero has somehow also worked on performance, although I find an NS200 having a hard time keeping up with an XPulse hard to believe.

Mine (a BS-I XPulse) doesn't feel quite like what you describe. There's definitely a noticeable surge in power in the higher RPMs, but can't say that there's power everywhere in the rev-range. On road, I feel as if you have to rev the bike a little harder than a typical 200 to keep it in the power band, though there is adequate grunt in the lower RPMs for off-road usage. So, ultimately the bike ends up feeling: not overwhelming and manageable off-road, and somewhat fun if there's open road where the bike can be revved to meet its power band demand. Everywhere else, it's just meh; serviceable.

Regardless, what I meant in the earlier post was that they can't really up-sell the 200 to a potential 160R; there isn't much for the money there, especially the 200S.

[RD410]

Originally Posted by BullettuPaandi

although I find an NS200 having a hard time keeping up with an XPulse hard to believe.

Sorry, I forgot to mention that it was on the mostly broken, 2 lane roads of Kerala. The dirt bike like instant power delivery and long travel suspension really shines on KL roads. On highways, there is no competition with other 200cc nakeds. But still, the response and pickup of latest Xpulse 4v is as good as RTR200.