[b16h22]

Knowing Honda, this is going to be another variant based on their 500 twin platform. The Japs haven't really developed a new big single in a looong time. They jump straight to twins after 300cc usually. The CB350 is an anomaly and made purely to try and grab some market share from RE. It's more of a Honda India product than Honda Japan.

[FireBlade]

Originally Posted by asininite

Going off-topic here but just because a reviewer doesn't share the same opinion about your favorite bike/brand does not mean that they are biased. Shumis Motorinc is a very black-and-white approach to journalism, but even he always maintains that if you like a bike he will help you with the purchase decision even if he doesn't like it himself. In that case I don't really see any 'bias'. The only reason there aren't any Hondas featured is because Honda doesn't provide media bikes. Anyways I was only mentioning how even a relatively large reviewer has begun to comment on the rusting situation

Shumi's opinion regarding Honda/CB350 is well known to be biased. I would anyday take opinion of real owners of bikes and cars over these hyped Auto-Journalists like Shumi. That is why Team-BHP>>MotorInc. Period.

I would like to draw attention to how I specifically mentioned the 'current crop' of Hondas.

The OBD2 Unicorn has plethora of problems, as is detailed in a post in this thread. Even my trusty mechanic has advised me to stay away and to not recommend the new Unicorns. https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/motor...ems-faced.html (2023 Honda Unicorn Review BS6 OBD2 & Problems Faced)

Dude, I also gave you example of "current crop of Hondas" cause I own three of them and all have very good quality.

CBR 250R was a good motorcycle, but Honda doesn't seem to deem us worthy of it as they have discontinued the 150 and 250.

I concur. They should launch their new-gen sport bikes, ASAP.

Hornet 2.0 is an average motorcycle at best, and sits in a no-mans land between the 200s and 160s. It's more expensive than the RTR 160 / N160 / Xtreme 160 4v all of which are well rounded bikes and priced closely to the RTR 200 and N250 both of which are superior motorcycles. Factor in the lack of dual-channel ABS and you have no reason to really consider the Hornet.

Wrong. Hornet 2.0 has the best engine in-terms of low-end torque and tractability which all other competition lack. Don't judge a bike just by its specs. Hornet 2.0 also has very good acceleration of 0-100.

Your CB350 feels really well-made and thats good. I've however seen and experienced first-hand plenty of rusting and paint chipping and general quality issues for me to refrain from recommending that bike. The handlebar bearings also can rust, due to which the handlebar begins to wobble, which is not a new issue aswell. Older CB350s also faced this. https://www.reddit.com/r/indianbikes...a_hness_issue/

Maybe all issues have been sorted in the latest batches.

I wouldn't say so. RE sells primarily due to nostalgia and that brand value. Everyone and their grand-father knows what a Bullet is. That nostalgia is the primary driving factor for getting a Bullet/Classic in the first place. The 30000 people buying a Classic every month don't buy it because it is the best bike in the segment, they buy it because it is Royal Enfield. Honda was only ever going to garner sales from the population who doesn't want a RE.

So by benchmarking the UCE Classic 350 and deciding to copy it as it is, with slight improvements here and there they were never going to make an excellent bike, just a 'Honda ki Bullet'. The long gearing and overdrive 5th gear exists primarily for better mileage, but sacrifices the low-end in the process meaning you keep having to rev the bike out in the city. The loud (and rather obnoxious) exhaust was to appease the Bullet fans who slap on aftermarket exhausts. The exhaust was one of the reasons why I couldn't keep riding the bike after 40km and moved back to a 411 Himmy on a trip.

Look bro, I had a "real Bullet" in my family(1986 Bullet CI). Go and ask any real Bullet user about the new crop and most would say that the current Bullet/Classic 350 is just a Bullet in name. They lack the real thump and character of CI Bullet. In fact, the new gen Bullets feel like bigger version of Splendour and more like UJM rather than a British Classic. CB350 offers far more engaging ride vs current Bullet/Classic 350.

The reason why other brands like the Triumph-Bajaj and Hero-Harley collabs succeeded was because they tapped into the crowd who didn't want a Bullet and provided them with a much better product at that price range. Speed 400 costs just a bit above the top-spec Classic 350, and that is a 40hp light well-built bike with no compromises except for high-rev vibration. Speed T4 is a very easy-going relaxed machine that has no sense of strain on the highways whilst feeling very agile on its feet. Mavrick 440 and Harley x440 all improve on the long-stroke formula, with a bigger better engine and beefier suspension whilst having bountiful amounts of torque to cruise effortlessly. Mavrick doesn't sell in good numbers sadly, though the Harley does. Even from REs own stable, the Guerilla 450 exists for those wanting aggression and fun instead of a chill easy-going nature.



I was pointing at tchsvy's comment about there being 3 non-rusty CB350s for every rusty CB350. However the issue is very real and I know personally 3 owners who've had their chassis rust to some extent and the paint flake off. It's not covered under warranty as far as I know, in many cases online and offline the dealer provides the option of painting over the rusty portions. It is a prevalent issue, and I only brought up Shumi to show that even the reviewers have started acknowledging the rusting. Shumi dislikes Hondas as it is not his type of motorcycle, that I know.

Let's agree to disagree here. You found the sound of CB350 obnoxious? Maybe try CB350(Classic), it has muted sound over H'Ness, still more thumpy than Bullet/Classic 350.

Originally Posted by jaganm

I’d wager to say that most people who ride the RE and Honda back to back AND don’t have any prebuilt emotional attachment to the RE/Bullet brand will look at the Honda favourably, it is that good. The only thing that’s stopping them selling 3-4x more is that a lot of the country has no way to buy one.

It’s ultimately a choice of the individual. I think where I have a problem with Shumi and his sidey is that they have blinkers over a significant slice of the market and cow tow to manufacturers that treat them well. So, I consider them opinion peddlers rather than an authoritative voice on the biking experience.

This is absolutely correct.

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

IMHO, it is the other way around. Bike v/s bike - The new generation RE 350 series is better than the CB350 series, especially the Classic. Brand v/s brand - The Honda sales happen because the brand is supposed to be more reliable and trustworthy, a reputation they have rightly earned over the years. If the CB350 was from Jawa or BSA, it wouldn't be the same. Sorry to disagree, but Bigwing isn't a small network anymore - it has around 150 showrooms across the country. RE may have 2x the showrooms, but definitely not 5x more. The fact that it sells less than 5% of a Classic has nothing to do with showroom availability.

My office colleague owns a J-Series Bullet 350 and bike
vs bike CB350 is hands down the better bike. Better performance, handling and even sound.

Originally Posted by b16h22

Knowing Honda, this is going to be another variant based on their 500 twin platform. The Japs haven't really developed a new big single in a looong time. They jump straight to twins after 300cc usually. The CB350 is an anomaly and made purely to try and grab some market share from RE. It's more of a Honda India product than Honda Japan.

Nope. CB350, in form of GB350, is going to be launched worldwide. Its rebored version is going to be launched as GB500 in US and maybe also in other parts of the world.

[b16h22]

Originally Posted by FireBlade

Nope. CB350, in form of GB350, is going to be launched worldwide. Its rebored version is going to be launched as GB500 in US and maybe also in other parts of the world.

I'm aware of the fact that the GB350 and RS are exported to their home market for about 3 years now and soon getting launched in Europe as well. The rebored 350 is pure speculation at this point and nobody has any details to back the claim. It makes perfect sense for Honda to churn out another 500 platform based model just like their current modern retros, the Rebel 500 and the CL500. The Americans and Europeans aren't that keen on big singles and Honda is very pragmatic these days when it comes to new models.

[asininite]

Originally Posted by FireBlade

Dude, I also gave you example of "current crop of Hondas" cause I own three of them and all have very good quality.

Out of the 4 you mentioned, only 2 are being sold right now. BS6 Unicorn was updated and the newer BS6 OBD2 Unicorn has a plethora of problems and issues and is generally considered to be a bad bike. CBR250R is discontinued. CB350 and Hornet 2.0 are two bikes that you can purchase from a Honda dealership.

Originally Posted by FireBlade

Wrong. Hornet 2.0 has the best engine in-terms of low-end torque and tractability which all other competition lack. Don't judge a bike just by its specs. Hornet 2.0 also has very good acceleration of 0-100.

Best in comparison to what? 160s? Hornet is also more expensive than the 160cc trio of the RTR 160/N160/Xtreme 160 and the latter 3 are all more complete motorcycles with the addition of dual-channel ABS and better suspension setups. RTR 160 4v always had a plush setup and it now gets a USD. Heros suspension setups have been excellent for some time and this one is no exception. Hornet is a bit on the stiffer side but it is fine still.

Hornet is also not far off from the RTR 200 and N250, both of which have better gruntier engines and better suspension setups. This is why the Hornet sits in a no-mans land between the economical-yet-sporty 160s and sporty 200s.

Originally Posted by FireBlade

Look bro, I had a "real Bullet" in my family(1986 Bullet CI). Go and ask any real Bullet user about the new crop and most would say that the current Bullet/Classic 350 is just a Bullet in name. They lack the real thump and character of CI Bullet. In fact, the new gen Bullets feel like bigger version of Splendour and more like UJM rather than a British Classic. CB350 offers far more engaging ride vs current Bullet/Classic 350.

Not going to delve in the rabbithole of what a true Bullet is or not, but the new Classics are superior motorcycles to their predecessors as per its mechanicals. Nostalgia and real character, I shall leave that for the time being.

I don't really like how the CB350 rides. It's supposed to be a thumpy torquey bike, yet the long gearing forces me to rev it out. Its an engine that has more power in the mid-range rather than in the low-end, atypical of a classic thumper. This led me to feel like I was driving a commuter bike, on which you utilize the performance by revving the bike. Classic 350, Mavrick 440, even the Speed T4 all felt like machines driven by torque. On all three I could propel myself with just the clutch and use the torque to shuttle myself around.

Infact the Speed T4 is what the CB350 should've been in my opinion. Its a short stroke but feels very relaxed and chill, with oodles of torque in the low end and gearing that didn't really matter, I could just put it in 3rd or 4th and pull from 20 without any fuss. It had plenty of power when needed for overtakes, yet long gearing to never feel stressed. It felt unique, and had its own character, and judging by how similar the stickering and price is to the CB350RS I say Bajaj placed this bike to compete with the latter. Meanwhile on the CB350, I kept having to rev it in one gear, get to the mid-range then shift and repeat, and I couldn't put it in 5th without lugging. It's not torquey enough or rev-happy enough. [/quote]

Originally Posted by FireBlade

Let's agree to disagree here. You found the sound of CB350 obnoxious? Maybe try CB350(Classic), it has muted sound over H'Ness, still more thumpy than Bullet/Classic 350.

The exhaust felt way too engineered to be loud and brappy. I was watching this 'H'ness anthem' video and kept on having this feeling that I was listening to metallic farts.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUvMNkm2xdg

Meanwhile on the Classic 350 the thump from the exhaust did feel like it emanated from the engine. On the Honda there was something going on at the exhaust but it didn't seem to come from the engine.

[FireBlade]

Originally Posted by asininite

Out of the 4 you mentioned, only 2 are being sold right now. BS6 Unicorn was updated and the newer BS6 OBD2 Unicorn has a plethora of problems and issues and is generally considered to be a bad bike. CBR250R is discontinued. CB350 and Hornet 2.0 are two bikes that you can purchase from a Honda dealership.

Yeah, but my Unicorn is still 3 years old and can be termed as one of Honda's recent bikes. And it's funny that you feel that Unicorn OBD-2 is that drastically different from my OBD-1 bike. You also talk about the latter's problem but did you check its sales figures. It's still doing 30k+ monthly sales figure and those who buy it are no fools. Period.

Best in comparison to what? 160s? Hornet is also more expensive than the 160cc trio of the RTR 160/N160/Xtreme 160 and the latter 3 are all more complete motorcycles with the addition of dual-channel ABS and better suspension setups. RTR 160 4v always had a plush setup and it now gets a USD. Heros suspension setups have been excellent for some time and this one is no exception. Hornet is a bit on the stiffer side but it is fine still.

As I said, don't delve in spec sheet too much. Hornet 2.0 has excellent tractability which all your other 4-valve machines can't match. It also has got brutal acceleration when push comes to shove, which frankly speaking no other 4-valve 160cc can match.

Hornet is also not far off from the RTR 200 and N250, both of which have better gruntier engines and better suspension setups. This is why the Hornet sits in a no-mans land between the economical-yet-sporty 160s and sporty 200s.

All other 200cc bikes are also more expensive than Hornet 2.0, too.

Not going to delve in the rabbithole of what a true Bullet is or not, but the new Classics are superior motorcycles to their predecessors as per its mechanicals. Nostalgia and real character, I shall leave that for the time being.

As I said earlier, my office colleague has got new-gen Bullet 350 and it's almost as easy to master as any Japanese bike sans the weight, which you'll get used to just in few rides. Talking about Mechanicals, yes J series Bullet/Classic may be better but then CB350 is way better than both. You talk about high gearing, well that allows CB350 to sit comfortably all day long at 100kmph and cruise effortlessly. Something which Bullet/Classic can't do as effortlessly.

I don't really like how the CB350 rides. It's supposed to be a thumpy torquey bike, yet the long gearing forces me to rev it out. Its an engine that has more power in the mid-range rather than in the low-end, atypical of a classic thumper. This led me to feel like I was driving a commuter bike, on which you utilize the performance by revving the bike. Classic 350, Mavrick 440, even the Speed T4 all felt like machines driven by torque. On all three I could propel myself with just the clutch and use the torque to shuttle myself around.

Which commuter bike can sit at 100kmph, all-day long? Lol. In fact, the new Bullet feels more like a bigger commuter and less engaging to ride because of its lower gearing. CB350's torque is fine for first 3 gears, then use 4th & 5th for highway cruising. Who wants a 200kgs motorcycle for towns/cities? Well yes Chapries and posers with Pataka silencers. It may hurt you, but that's what the new Bullet has become.

Infact the Speed T4 is what the CB350 should've been in my opinion. Its a short stroke but feels very relaxed and chill, with oodles of torque in the low end and gearing that didn't really matter, I could just put it in 3rd or 4th and pull from 20 without any fuss. It had plenty of power when needed for overtakes, yet long gearing to never feel stressed. It felt unique, and had its own character, and judging by how similar the stickering and price is to the CB350RS I say Bajaj placed this bike to compete with the latter. Meanwhile on the CB350, I kept having to rev it in one gear, get to the mid-range then shift and repeat, and I couldn't put it in 5th without lugging. It's not torquey enough or rev-happy enough.

To each his own. I love how my CB350 is

The exhaust felt way too engineered to be loud and brappy. I was watching this 'H'ness anthem' video and kept on having this feeling that I was listening to metallic farts.

https://www.Youtube.com/watch?v=hUvMNkm2xdg

Meanwhile on the Classic 350 the thump from the exhaust did feel like it emanated from the engine. On the Honda there was something going on at the exhaust but it didn't seem to come from the engine.

I don't have H'ness or RS, so I can't comment on them, but I was disappointed when I recently rode my colleagues' Bullet 350 as the thump it made just didn't measure up to my CB350. But anyways, as they say "to each his own". So enjoy your ride mate

[Mr.Sleeper]

Hey guys I just wanna add that as a CB350RS owner, the bike in itself is very well made and engineered but certain OEM parts are of extremely poor quality ( brake pads, chain sprocket set, etc). A few friends of mine who live in coastal regions with high humidity have observed rusting issues as well. As for me I hate Honda Bigwing but love the bike. I've fit a custom 14T front sprocket which has solved most of the tall gearing issues and has made the bike much more tractable. So yes, I don't worship Honda anymore, there are definitely some flaws (tall gearing doesn't work with a long stroke engine, trust me), Bigwing service is hopeless and expensive for what they offer, but the bike makes me smile everytime I look at it and ride it!

As for Motorinc, I respect Shumi, find him very thorough and knowledgeable, but I don't take his opinions on the CB350 bikes too seriously cause he has an idea about Honda motorcycles and the CB doens't align with his idea of a Honda motorcycle. But that is his personal opinion and it would be stupid of us to waste time fighting over it.

[asininite]

Originally Posted by FireBlade

Yeah, but my Unicorn is still 3 years old and can be termed as one of Honda's recent bikes. And it's funny that you feel that Unicorn OBD-2 is that drastically different from my OBD-1 bike. You also talk about the latter's problem but did you check its sales figures. It's still doing 30k+ monthly sales figure and those who buy it are no fools. Period.

30000 people all driven by the allure of the BS4 150cc Unicorn and cheated with a bike that shares the same old body (with halogens in 2024) but with the 160cc engine from the not so well reviewed Unicorn 160R. This is what I call cunning.

If you compare the Unicorn 160 with the Unicorn 150 you'll find the former to be mediocre at best, and refinement to have taken a drop.

Originally Posted by FireBlade

As I said, don't delve in spec sheet too much. Hornet 2.0 has excellent tractability which all your other 4-valve machines can't match. It also has got brutal acceleration when push comes to shove, which frankly speaking no other 4-valve 160cc can match.

All other 200cc bikes are also more expensive than Hornet 2.0, too.

sigh I am going to simply put the on-road Mumbai price figures here.

Hornet 2.0 : 167328rs
RTR 160 4v Single Channel ABS : 155811rs
RTR 160 4v Dual Channel ABS with USDs : 167818rs
RTR 200 4v Single Channel ABS : 165761rs
RTR 200 4v Dual Channel ABS : 176157rs

Originally Posted by FireBlade

As I said earlier, my office colleague has got new-gen Bullet 350 and it's almost as easy to master as any Japanese bike sans the weight, which you'll get used to just in few rides. Talking about Mechanicals, yes J series Bullet/Classic may be better but then CB350 is way better than both. You talk about high gearing, well that allows CB350 to sit comfortably all day long at 100kmph and cruise effortlessly. Something which Bullet/Classic can't do as effortlessly.

Isn't easy to master a good thing? I can't perceive that as a fault of the new Classics. Anyways as Mr.Sleeper, a owner of the CB350RS has stated, long gearing doesn't suit a long-stroke, and makes it feel sluggish. Why else would he go to a smaller front sprocket? This ironically puts the CB350 gearing closer to the REs, showing that the Honda mechanically isn't better than the RE.

Originally Posted by FireBlade

Which commuter bike can sit at 100kmph, all-day long? Lol. In fact, the new Bullet feels more like a bigger commuter and less engaging to ride because of its lower gearing. CB350's torque is fine for first 3 gears, then use 4th & 5th for highway cruising. Who wants a 200kgs motorcycle for towns/cities? Well yes Chapries and posers with Pataka silencers. It may hurt you, but that's what the new Bullet has become.

The N250 can, so can the CB300F. With the current offer, Speed T4 costs 1.99 ex-showroom and that can sit at 120km/h stress free with power on tap to accelerate and overtake at that speed. Mavrick 440 can sit at 110km/h fuss-free. Plenty of bikes that are cheaper or priced on par with the Hondas can sit at a higher cruising speed with no effort, and this is without a super-long 5th gear.

Originally Posted by FireBlade

To each his own. I love how my CB350 is

Good for you! I am pointing out the faults of the CB350 platform as per my subjective opinions, but that shouldn't stop you from enjoying your own bike.

[FireBlade]

Originally Posted by asininite

30000 people all driven by the allure of the BS4 150cc Unicorn and cheated with a bike that shares the same old body (with halogens in 2024) but with the 160cc engine from the not so well reviewed Unicorn 160R. This is what I call cunning. If you compare the Unicorn 160 with the Unicorn 150 you'll find the former to be mediocre at best, and refinement to have taken a drop.

Cunning? You talk as if HMSI is forcing those 30k+ people to buy crappy Unicorn BS6 bikes, lolz.

And thanks for informing me about BS4 Unicorn, but here is something about me. I might be one of the most
experienced person about Honda Unicorn. Why? 'Cause, I have owned the bike in its multiple iterations since Jan 2005. In fact, in Jan 2005, I got the first 'self-start' Unicorn of my city. Did 75k and sold it in Oct 2018 and bought BS4 Unicorn. Did 37K kms in it and sold it then bought my current BS6 Unicorn. It has done nearly ~67k till date.

Yes, BS6 Unicorns lack that racy engine character of erstwhile Unicorns but it's in fact a far better cruiser. It can sit at 80kmph all day long at 6k rpm without feeling strained which my BS4 bike did.

If you look at sales figures of BS6 Unicorn, then it wasn't doing 30k+ initially rather 12k-18k. Only in recent times, from last year onwards sales have really picked up IIRC. Saying that Honda is fooling all these customers is simply disrespecting their prudence. But since you believe in great & unbiased auto-journalists like Shumi, then feel free to believe whatever suits you over opinion of someone like me who has experience multiple Unicorns first-hand.

sigh I am going to simply put the on-road Mumbai price figures here.

Hornet 2.0 : 167328rs
RTR 160 4v Single Channel ABS : 155811rs
RTR 160 4v Dual Channel ABS with USDs : 167818rs
RTR 200 4v Single Channel ABS : 165761rs
RTR 200 4v Dual Channel ABS : 176157rs

And Hornet is better in-city bike than all of these. None of the above 4v machines can match Hornet's tractibility and low-end punch.

Isn't easy to master a good thing? I can't perceive that as a fault of the new Classics. Anyways as Mr.Sleeper, a owner of the CB350RS has stated, long gearing doesn't suit a long-stroke, and makes it feel sluggish. Why else would he go to a smaller front sprocket? This ironically puts the CB350 gearing closer to the REs, showing that the Honda mechanically isn't better than the RE.

If someone doesn't like to change gears then better buy an Activa for super easy riding. Want to feel the fun of motorcycling, buy CB350.

Good for you! I am pointing out the faults of the CB350 platform as per my subjective opinions, but that shouldn't stop you from enjoying your own bike.

I bought my CB350 as a relaxed highway cruiser cause I've a far better city bike in Hornet 2.0. That long gearing of CB350 ain't no fault but quintesential character of the bike which allows it to cruise 20kmph higher than the new gen Classic/Bullet 350s. Combine that with better tech(Slip & Assist Clutch, Traction Control et al), Better brakes, far far superior balance and handling, superb comfort and you've a superior relaxed highway cruiser than Bullet/Classic 350.

But most Bullet/Classic 350 owners don't understand this engineering aspect of CB350 and criticize cause most ride Bullets inside cities with loud silencers and are seen as chap-ries and posers by most. CB350 on the other hand is owned by only an elite few. "You meet the nicest people on a Honda", this saying is absolutely correct. During my recent visit to a Big Wing Service Center, I myself felt it first hand. Now who are most of these 60k people who're buying Classic/Standard 350 month after month is well known by everyone

People putting super loud silencers in their Bullets and disturbing others is a common sight across India. Period

[jaganm]

Having ridden the Highness for 30K km, 25K on the highway, I feel that the long gearing is actually a boon. Some of the points addressing the gearing and other things

- At speeds of 80-90 kmph you sit at a lower rpm and that makes it a stress free ride. At this speed, I've found keeping it in 4th is preferred, there is a bit more on tap and the bike responds for overtakes if required unlike in 5th
- The lack of vibes on this bike just amazes me, I recently did a fairly long ride on my friend's Himalayan 450 and the vibes from the pegs and handlebar was noticeable. It also feels perceptibly rougher than the Honda.
- The other area where the extra long gearing worked well was in Ladakh. On the long uphills, I was able to keep it in 1/2 whereas the Classics in our group had to shift up and completely lost their momentum when they shifted up
- The one area where the gearing hurts is if your cruising speed is 100-110. At that time, you are in 5th gear but any loss of momentum requires a downshift. But, the key is that the engine is so unstressed at that speed that you can cruise all day without issue

Out of the current crop of bikes, the only bike I'll have over the Honda is the HD 440. I love some aspects of the Speed 400 but I find it a little too small. The Harley on the other hand ticks a lot of boxes, an engine that has got slightly more punch, similar ergonomics and a slightly higher ceiling of performance that can improve my average speed.

That's why I am excited for the 500 cc if it comes, I was quite close to pulling the trigger on the Scrambler 400x as my touring machine but decided to wait until it is clear. I think it will be the HD+ and CB350++ and that is just perfect for me.

But, I also feel there is a non zero chance, Honda will launch a GB500 based on the single sell it in other markets but not launch it in India. That is going to make owners like me tear out my hair in frustration.

[FireBlade]

Harley HD440 & Hero Mavrick 440 are more of Power Cruisers than Retro Classics though. So, if someone needs a retro looking machine, they are just no no. Comparing Triumph with CB350 is also not fair cause it has Sport bike derived big bore liquid cooled engine. It just can't match the beat/charm of a long-stroke air cooled/low-compression engine. And yes, honda will definitely launch GB500(as CB) in India along with a Himalayan rival.

PS: So much talk about built quality and I think my CB is built superbly like any Honda. In fact, I would rate it over the new J-Series Bullets/Classics:

[asininite]

Originally Posted by FireBlade

Cunning? You talk as if HMSI is forcing those 30k+ people to buy crappy Unicorn BS6 bikes, lolz.

And thanks for informing me about BS4 Unicorn, but here is something about me. I might be one of the most
experienced person about Honda Unicorn. Why? 'Cause, I have owned the bike in its multiple iterations since Jan 2005. In fact, in Jan 2005, I got the first 'self-start' Unicorn of my city. Did 75k and sold it in Oct 2018 and bought BS4 Unicorn. Did 37K kms in it and sold it then bought my current BS6 Unicorn. It has done nearly ~67k till date.

More experienced than my Honda Red-Wing head mechanic? I don't think so. I bring my BS4 2014 Unicorn with 55000kms on it to service every 2500kms and being a small town have built up a solid rapport with the head mechanic. To quote him, translated from malayalam to english, 'these new Unicorns are garbage, tons of issues and I keep having to fix them'. Ever since Honda has transitioned to the 160cc engine from the Hornet 160 and X-Blade they've become duller, lost their pickup and in general became inferior motorcycles.

Having also seen plenty of newer Unicorns at the service center for stalling issues (on a FI bike mind you), it's obvious the BS4 was the best iteration yet. Also this bike is still sold with Halogens in 2024. The only 3 other bikes with Halogens are the Hunter 350 (which is going to get LEDs soon), W175 and GoldStar 650, all of which are retro machines. There is absolutely no reason to get a Unicorn over a SP160, which in itself is pretty mediocre and thoroughly beaten out by a Pulsar N160.

Originally Posted by FireBlade

But since you believe in great & unbiased auto-journalists like Shumi, then feel free to believe whatever suits you over opinion of someone like me who has experience multiple Unicorns first-hand.

Where is the bias in Shumi? The man has like what 35 years of riding experience, and has ridden countless other Hondas to have a definite idea of what a Honda is. I can pull up any review from any mainstream review channel and they'd all concur the CB350 Classic is not a true Honda, rather its more RE with a Honda badge, which again is Shumis opinion. Your problem with him is because he dislikes a bike that is essentially a copycat of a retro bike, and tries hard to harken back to a legacy which is not its own. I call that a little bit immature. I find Motorinc a refreshing black-and-white take on motorcycles by a man who practically lives to ride a bike and has countless years of experience. If I wanted a spec-sheet readout I can consult Ayush Verma or some other reviewer.

H'ness can make a stand for itself. It does look that bit different from the RE, and has some of that UJM CB350 looks about it. But the Classic CB350? No way. It looks so uninspiringly similar and I would just get the original, rather than the copy.

Originally Posted by FireBlade

And Hornet is better in-city bike than all of these. None of the above 4v machines can match Hornet's tractibility and low-end punch.

Pal I think you're a little bit deluded if you think the Hornet is punchier than the RTR 200. Yes it is punchier than the RTR 160 but the 200? No chance. time = 2:22

Want numbers?

The additional advantage the RTR gets is a suppler suspension that is adjustable and riding modes. Want to extract mileage? Just put it in urban mode and it becomes a more laid-back machine, and sport mode exists for that fun punch.

Originally Posted by FireBlade

If someone doesn't like to change gears then better buy an Activa for super easy riding. Want to feel the fun of motorcycling, buy CB350.

I bought my CB350 as a relaxed highway cruiser cause I've a far better city bike in Hornet 2.0. That long gearing of CB350 ain't no fault but quintesential character of the bike which allows it to cruise 20kmph higher than the new gen Classic/Bullet 350s. Combine that with better tech(Slip & Assist Clutch, Traction Control et al), Better brakes, far far superior balance and handling, superb comfort and you've a superior relaxed highway cruiser than Bullet/Classic 350.

A Pulsar N250 or another Honda bike the CB300F can do that better. The whole point of buying a long-stroke is to be able to use the torque and not have to require many gear changes. What's the point in a long-stroke with torque that requires me to rev it out like a commuter? It is not in character for a bike in that class, and no other bike in that class suffers from that same predicament.

Classic 350, Mavrick 440, even the short-stroke Speed T4 all have better low-end torque than the CB350. In-fact, out of all the 400cc torque-driven bikes the CB350 is one of the worse ones (I am not including the Jawas here as I cannot vouch for their reliability).

You have the Classic 350, a status symbol and a bike primarily driven by that image of a Royal Enfield. RE can screw up this bike mechanically and it would still sell 30000 units monthly. Truly a wonder of marketing and an exception. Even still it is the better bike in the city due to the low-end torque and suspension setup, which hammers out any imperfection down underneath. The seat is also a really good one. This bike has better ride quality than the Honda.

Mavrick 440 is priced on par with the CB350 and does everything better, except mileage on highways. It has great low-end torque, cruises at a higher speed on the highway, handles better and has sharper brakes and a suspension setup which is perfectly damped and supple unlike the underdamped CB350. If you want to cruise on the highways and don't want the extra 3-4km/L this bike will be superior in every way.

Speed T4, its a short-stroke yet has abundant torque in the low-end, is light and flickable and returns 39km/L on the highways. I can just go on.

Why would I buy a CB350? Especially when it is marred with quality issues like chassis rusting and paint flaking and handlebar wobbling because the inner bearings inexplicably managed to rust? I've seen posts on reddit about 10 day old CB350s with paint flaking off the chassis as the metal underneath somehow rusted into reddish-orange perfection. Cherry on top is that the SC refuses to cover it under warranty.

If I wanted a highway cruiser I'd get a Mavrick 440 or x440. If I wanted a city bike I'd get a Speed T4. If I wanted a Bullet I'd get a Bullet, instead of 'Honda ki Bullet'. Slipper clutch and a rudimentary traction control system that makes do without ride-by-wire (similar to the system employed in the Pulsar N250) don't matter if the riding experience isn't to the tune of what is expected from that bike.

Originally Posted by FireBlade

People putting super loud silencers in their Bullets and disturbing others is a common sight across India. Period

Maybe that's why Honda made the exhaust so obnoxious sounding, to appeal to the fans of loud silencers on Bullets. To my ears its just an exhaust engineered to produce metallic farts. It also managed to give me a headache whilst riding it, and I had to get off it mid-way.

[FireBlade]

@asininite

Let's agree to disagree mate. I like new J-Series Bullet. It's really a nice bike. But I like CB350 Classic more in literally all-aspects from look to sound to engine punch to handling. I even revere brand Honda more than brand RE. It could just be me, but for myself that's what counts

Peace.

[asininite]

Originally Posted by FireBlade

@asininite

Let's agree to disagree mate. I like new J-Series Bullet. It's really a nice bike. But I like CB350 Classic more in literally all-aspects from look to sound to engine punch to handling. I even revere brand Honda more than brand RE. It could just be me, but for myself that's what counts

Peace.

I guess that's how it will be then. Agree to disagree.

Cheers.

[jaganm]

I'm surprised why someone who dislikes the bike and brand so much will spend so much time on trying to convince others that it is a bad bike. Don't like it, move on and focus on the bikes that you like. Each individual is different and what they want from their vehicle is different, let's appreciate that. There's nothing more irritating than someone online repeatedly telling you why your choice is bad.

[locusjag]

On the flipside, all this haranguing introduced me to the Triumph Speed T4. It brought me up to speed (pun intended) on a slew of comparable options in the 300 to 500 cc range. It brought me nostalgia - I had a BS3 unicorn once...
I've been forced to commute by motorcycle after more than a decade due to my new employer's lack of adequate car parking space. I find my 2017 UCE Electra to be terrible on Chennai's bypass road (it's practically an access controlled expressway) with its jarring vibrations beyond 60 kmph.
If at all I do decide to change my ride, this thread will have informed my decision vastly.