[ManualMaestro]

Hello everyone!
I'm a proud owner of TVS Apache 160 4V HP since 2021. This is my first bike and I have put relatively low kms on it (around 9k). Still, the bike has been an absolute joy to ride. The exhaust is bassy, happy, high revving engine, great looks (love the side profile) and more than enough performance for a new rider. There have been no major issues, other than a simple recent suspension leak, and it has completely changed my decision to upgrade to the bigger sibling RTR310 in near future. I've laid out the events below:

1. Had been facing suspension leak issue since a month. Got time on 13-10-24 and visited Litra TVS to get bike serviced. Job card was made for the issue, waited from 9:30 AM to around 5:00 PM (6-7hrs) just to know that they forgot to do the repair job.
Promised me to do it on priority a week later on priority.

2. Visited Litra TVS again on 20-10-24 for the suspension job. Reminded and urged them about their promise. Still had to wait from 9:30AM to around 2:00 PM (5hrs), so much for their priority service. Was not satisfied with the end result, but thought must be due to new parts.
This whole ordeal was off the records.

3. Issue still persisted after a month, so raised a complaint with TVS on their mail:



Got a call from the manager requesting to visit again.

4. Visited again on my holiday 15-10-24 (Guru Nanak Jayanti holiday). First the floor manager Mr. Ganesh flat out refused any problem after test riding my bike. On urging him and after talking with manager, he accepted to check once. While I was waiting for my “priority service”, some fellow customers showed interest in my issue. While showing them, I noticed that the same suspension leg had leaked again, which went unnoticed by Mr. Ganesh on his test ride:



Told him the same and he took the bike in within minutes now.

5. While checking for oil quantity, it was found out to be 120ml in both legs. The floor manager asked around different engineers and he told that it must be 150ml.



I was not satisfied with the answer of engineer so I pulled the Owner’s manual from TVS’s official website and to my horror, there it was mentioned 240ml for each leg!



When I confronted the engineer, he said “We always put 150ml only and it fixes this issue. We follow the board over there”.
The board in question:



The board looked legit, but it had data for “Apache 160” while mine was “Apache 160 4V”. Then it clicked in my mind that the 4V redesign was introduced later in the Apache lineup, the Apache 160 2V is simply called the Apache 160. Pulling up the Owner’s manual for Apache 160 2V confirmed my hypothesis. Shocking that a customer could figure it out while the technicians working there for years couldn’t..



The worst part is, even after showing all this evidence, the fact that their information board was outdated, was not acknowledged by ANYONE in the service centre, not the engineer, the floor manager, nor the service centre manager. They just had one response, “The technicians working from years wont be wrong right?”. It really felt like talking to a wall. The engineer also had the audacity to say that “Company has printed wrong info”.

Two important takeaways from this:

1. I was charged cost of oil and labour for both suspension legs, but only one was leaking, so they took out oil from the healthy one??
2. Every Apache 160 4V owner who faced the similar issue and came to this service centre is going about with half as much oil in their front suspension? In my experience, my bike has been unstable at highway speeds, so others might also be experiencing the same? No wonder I don’t see many Apaches on the road.. The owners must have gotten fed up and sold them off.

I was really done with them at this point and asked the manager to give me in writing, what is being done to my bike. She denied, but after some argument, she agreed.

Once the work was done, I took a test ride and the issue was still there. The suspension simply compresses too much causing higher load on front tyre. I’ve experience slight wobbles when going through minor road irregularities.
When I asked for the written acknowledgement, they flat out denied, saying since the bill amount is 0, we cant give anything. I asked the manager to give in writing and she also denied. The service advisors came in the room and asked “What happened?”. I told the issue and he said, “You should have come to me na? Why didn’t you come?” and tried to push the blame on me. I was like, “If your engineers, the floor manager and even the service center manager is not listening to me, will I get a dream that YOU will make things happen?”, which was followed by a silence. Then they started saying, “Pull in the bike, we’ll put as much as he’s saying” and this time I denied since I didn’t had confidence in them, and I was not willing to waste anymore than the 5 hours already spent. After a bit more argument, I left.

6. After reaching home, I sent a new mail to TVS customer care, explaining the whole ordeal:



This time, I specifically mentioned 3 points I wanted action on:
1. Confirmation from an official TVS engineer on the correct oil amount for the front suspension of the TVS Apache 160 4V, as per the manual (240ml or 150ml).
2. A referral to a trusted and reliable TVS service centre to resolve my bike's issue urgently. I have already spent three days dealing with this unprofessionalism at Litra TVS.
3. A thorough investigation and proper training for the engineers at Litra TVS, as the entire management, including the Floor Manager and Service Centre Manager, appear utterly incompetent.

Now I'm awaiting their reply. If this simple issue is not resolved, I'm seriously considering going through Consumer Forum. As much as I love TVS for their bikes and all the stuff they're doing, their service centres have been a mess for far too long. I was seriously considering upgrading to the RTR310, but after my exerience with their service centre on this simple issue, I cannot imagine what will happen if something went wrong with a much more expensive, tech loaded bike .

[rascalangel]

TVS unfortunately suffers from same problem as TATA, good products but horrible unprofessional service centres.

[r24x7]

I recently did a fork seal + fork oil change for both sides on my 10 year old Yamaha Fz. As expected the FNG mech. said we always put 350 ml per leg, post which I told them I need 459 ml per leg as recommended on owners manual.

I procured all consumables and paid only for the labour which they did a decent job.

Entire job was done in 2 hours and there was no hassles absolutely whatsoever.

This is one of the reasons why I don't go to the service center ( unless I have had a positive past experience)

• They don't let you in while the job is being carrier out
• They don't listen to what we say.

[Aluminium]

If it is any consolation, almost all TVS owner is in the same boat as you. Pathetic service experience throughout. My friend had an Ntorq which I used extensively. Brilliant scooter. But every time service centre is involved, our day got ruined. After an attempt to fleece us and an rr310 test ride ending midway due to empty tank and them blaming us, we ditched them for an independent garage. They anyways have poor resale value. Switch to an FNG and get back your peace of mind.

[jomson13]

Originally Posted by ManualMaestro

Now I'm awaiting their reply. If this simple issue is not resolved, I'm seriously considering going through Consumer Forum. As much as I love TVS for their bikes and all the stuff they're doing, their service centres have been a mess for far too long. I was seriously considering upgrading to the RTR310, but after my exerience with their service centre on this simple issue, I cannot imagine what will happen if something went wrong with a much more expensive, tech loaded bike .

I had the 200 4v for around 3 years, lovely bike for the city. Very sorted handling and braking. The 160 4v should also be the same. Don't let the ASC spoil your ownership experience.

My recommendations here:

1. Rely on the ASC only for free services and spare parts. Everything else happens at the FNG
2. Rely only on the owners manual. It's made by the design team and supercedes the 'experienced' service technicians.
3. Try to get the service / workshop manual and do such stuff yourself - it's not the most easy but once you have the parts and get the hang of things its not that difficult after all.

[ManualMaestro]

Originally Posted by jomson13

1. Rely on the ASC only for free services and spare parts. Everything else happens at the FNG
2. Rely only on the owners manual. It's made by the design team and supercedes the 'experienced' service technicians.
3. Try to get the service / workshop manual and do such stuff yourself - it's not the most easy but once you have the parts and get the hang of things its not that difficult after all.

Agreed. Going further, I'll be trying to handle the small stuff by myself. Can you pls clarify what FNG stands for.

As for this issue, if TVS customer care does not sort it out, I'll be taken them to consumer court. Hate it however much, but TVS is one of my favourite brands which is actually doing cool stuff for the enthusiasts, and I won't accept such incompetent asc people to further ruin its image.

I also have my own personal gripe with the particular asc, so it's time to send a strong message to the TVS management

[abhi9044]

Originally Posted by ManualMaestro

Agreed. Going further, I'll be trying to handle the small stuff by myself. Can you pls clarify what FNG stands for.

FNG stands for Friendly Neighbourhood Garage. This is a common practice among all the manufacturers. The technicians are not trained well enough to work on the 160cc models. All the knowledge they have is from woking on the commuter-grade motorcycles and they think that the bigger bikes have the same specs too.

Take, for instance, My brother's FZ had a shot fork seal. I grabbed both the seals and two bottles of fork oil to get it replaced at a garage. There, the mechanic tells me that each fork only takes 100-120 ml of oil. I told him that FZ uses 41mm shocks and it takes much more oil(Heck even the splendor uses 165ml of oil) and it is mentioned in the service booklet as well. To which he simply stopped listening to me and proceeded to fill the fork with 120 ml of oil. Fast forward 20 days, and it leaked again.

The best would be, to procure all the knowledge and parts yourself, and then find a mechanic who can work on your bike to your satisfaction level and stick with him.

Also, always cross-check the parts that come out of your bike and the ones that you buy. I have encountered multiple instances where the part required for my ride was different, but the brand spares shop handed me some parts for some other bike.

Especially your spark plug. The aftermarket thinks that there are only types of plugs, Badi Chudi(Long thread Ex- CPR7EA-9) and choti chudi(Small thread Ex- UR4AC). They don't have even the slightest idea of what the numbers and alphabets on a spark plug mean. So always cross-check before buying your parts.

[SR5471]

I have a 2022 160 4V RM. From day one I feel the brakes are dragging and braking is poor. In addition to this all the service centers I have visited have poorly trained technicians.

I feel I have done a sin buying a TVS product due to the horrible service experience. Once the warranty period is over,I will service the bike at a FNG. Also with the amount of electronics in it,I doubt the bike will last even half as long as my still running 2002 Hero Honda Passion.

[ManualMaestro]

Hey everyone! If you want, you can check out the update on this issue where I get everything resolved from TVS: https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/motor...-resolved.html (Update on my Horrible Service Experience with TVS | How I got the issue resolved)

[OffPoynt]

Hello!

Saw this page on my Google news feed, and though I'd jump in with a few (ok, probably more than a few) words about the recent experiences I've had with TVS service centers (with my Apache RTR 200 4V 2022, Black).

She says hi!

Before starting, I'd like to say that I've been insanely busy these last few years and I've not been able to update my review at all, despite wanting to. My RTR 200 is now 2.5 years old and has run 31,000km at the time of writing this. Will update the 200 review thread soon. For now, let's get into the service experience.

January 2025:-

In the first week of January, I landed my first job in Bengaluru. Since I live in Mysuru, I decided to go back there and get my bike serviced into top shape for the dreary office commute life it was now going to live (since I have no knowledge of FNGs/good service centers in Bangalore).

My bike already had a small issue, it was the front brakes losing pressure as the lever was held. Eventually you could touch the lever to the throttle grip. Sudden pulls of the lever worked as expected. The front disc also needed replacement (chirping due to warping, too thin for resurfacing).

So, I got these 2 issues fixed (at a TVS center in Mysuru, who fixed the brakes by changing out some parts in the master cylinder part), got an oil change done, brakes bled with fresh DOT4, and on a Sunday I prepared to head to Bengaluru on a Sunday afternoon for my office the next day. This is where my problems started.

1. Oil leak from the drain bolt
   

   This was noticed immediately after the oil change. Oil drip at the rate of one drop every 3 - 5 seconds. The FNG where I was getting the oil change done analysed the problem as worn out threads (was it of the bolt or the engine casing, I forget). They stopped it by using teflon tape on the drain bolt, as is done with leaky water fittings (this made some sense to me as teflon is also used in cookware and space shuttles, so it can handle heat very well). Had to gently lay the bike down on its side so this repair could be carried out (they didn't have a clean beaker to drain and refill the oil with). This makes it the very first time I've put the bike down, but I don't count it as such. I actually follow the service interval laid down by TVS (which is a service every 3,000km with an oil change every 6,000 km) strictly except i change my oil every 3,000km (as I am very enthusiastic with the throttle). I attribute this loss of thread to hamfistedness at service centers (seriously, what is with most mechanics/technicians in India and extremely overtightened bolts? My master cylinder cap screws are also worn out as a result. Torque wrenches must be a novelty here. All these technicians speak of putting bolts back as "tightening").

   

   Sigh

2. The front brake

This is what has given me the most trouble, and as of writing this post, it's still not fixed. Before I get into the matter, let me mention that I've not had a single fault indicator light pop up (ABS light or the engine malfunction light).
So, as I had mentioned earlier I got the brake issue sorted out at a TVS center in Mysuru. They filled the front master cylinder up with pink, reddish DOT3 fluid. The brakes felt a bit tight but I thought the new parts needed some time to adjust. During my oil change at an FNG I got the DOT3 fluid removed and flushed out with fresh Motul DOT4.
On the way to Bengaluru, near Chennapatna I stopped at Nayara for a fuel stop. During that stop I noted my front brake was dragging, and turning the handlebar varied the tightness at which it grabbed the disc. I didn't have the correct size spanner to loosen the bleed valve and let the pressure out so I carried on.
In Chennapatna, after clearing a speedbump the brake immediately jammed up fully. I have Vesrah pads up front and they do their job too well. A local mechanic was found, who came on his scooter, loosened the bleed valve and reduced some of the pressure. The bike was moving, but the brakes were still grabbing the disc and the wheel was not at all free-moving. So I made the decision to stop after a kilometer, and get my bike Portered to my friend's place. At this point the time was 10 PM, and I had to report next day to work at 6:30 AM

First time for everything, huh?

Next day (Monday), the service center near my friend's place (Dhancharan TVS) told me they can't accept the bike until Thursday. Ok, I thought. I used my friend's iQube (which was quite a new experience, using an EV scooter for a long period of time).
Thursday it goes in to Dhancharan TVS, again through Porter (the wheel still isn't moving freely enough to ride it there). I then decided to stop thinking about the bike until I got it back.

1 week later: got a call saying that they've done some work and asked me to test it out, but they said they weren't 100% satisfied (if they themselves aren't, how would I be?)
Ok, fine. I went there. The bike is now moving but the brakes are still sticking and sapping the performance from the creamy smooth 199.7cc engine. On the down ramp towards the service bay, the brakes jammed and locked up again
Back in it goes.

2 weeks later: they informed me that the brake hoses need to be replaced as they are worn out due to previous improper routing and wear from the handlebar turning. It's a 2.5k part (if I remember correctly). I said ok, get it done.

2.5 weeks later: they said that the ABS pump is now a suspect. (Which is usually around 18k to 25k, and mine is the dual-channel ABS model). I said fine, get it under warranty. My mindset was I don't care what you do, just get the bike repaired to factory condition.

It dragged on.

4th week: They told me they've fitted a new caliper as the old one had some slight sticky piston issues (which I knew of, and didn't cause any issue. Maybe down the line it would?) and then "Sir, we got some instructions from a product specialist of the RTR 200. We have used a suction pump on the ABS pump, removed a lot of dirt that was causing the issue as there are fine holes in the ABS. Now you can collect the bike".
Went and collected my bike.

The wheel moves, with a slight drag this time. The lever is tight, with almost zero free play. I foolishly thought maybe the new pads (yes, new pads that came as a set with the caliper assembly) needed to bed in and went on my way.


As it turned out, things were not all well (or over). The brakes would lock up after clearing a speedbump or pothole at some speed. After stopping, the brakes would slightly unlock and let me move again.
My job was pretty demanding - I used to work 10+ hour shifts; the starting time was before the service centers opened, and the ending time was after they'd shut and I had no one to take it to the service centers too, and I cannot work from home. This cost me.

February 9th: The brake jammed after a pretty small hump at 20 or below kmph. An auto behind me couldn't stop in time and hit my exhaust. He was obviously very pissed and didn't believe me that my brakes jammed, so I got up and pushed my bike to the side, then he believed that something was wrong with my bike. No damage except scratches on my end can.

February 10th: Two incidents this day, both on the way to work. First one was a scooter that happened similarly to the previous day's rickshaw. Second was an Ntorq behind me who couldn't evade me quickly enough; my end can just tore through the front left plastics on his scooter (a one-month old scooter that too). I agreed to pay for the damages since my brake unjams when moving again, so I can't prove that my brakes locked up)

After this incident, I was just extremely disappointed. After my work that day, I asked around and decided to pay Global TVS, Nagarbhavi a visit. After requesting the SA there to wait for me (I was riding slowly, precariously as to not trigger the brakes locking up) I went there, dropped off my bike. I also decided to get the dis-threaded drain plug fixed at this visit alongside a slight tappet noise issue (a common complaint on RTRs).

17th February: They told me it's fixed, I went there at 7:15 PM, paid the amount (860, which I felt was a bit low to fix a major problem like this but let's see, I thought). Brakes felt fine when I took the bike. Yay or something, I thought to myself as I took a longer-than-usual route back home through the NICE road to finally enjoy my bike. Everything was fine.

30 minutes into my ride, the brakes at that point because hard without free play as they were before. On the outer ring road, the roads under the metro stations have been white-topped (quite ghastly for my situation, if you ask me. I am very much against concrete roads, atleast the ones that are slowly taking over Bengaluru). These roads are full of undulations. When I went over them at around 40kmph, the quick compression and decompression that the suspension underwent caused the brakes to hold again, thankfully not to an extent that it made me stop. I just gave it the beans and it kept going.

My guess? Brake fluid return is being blocked/obstructed, so when the suspension compresses (and the brake hoses bend, which increases pressure slightly) the pressure cannot be released back into the master cylinder; hence it just goes towards the caliper in a one-way traffic situation (correct me if I'm wrong).

At this point, I decided money was no object and I needed this bike to work perfectly. I gave it back to Global TVS since their work with the tappet sounds was pretty good (I heard more of the exhaust and less of the engine, which is awesome) and told the SA to just replace the master cylinder completely, repairability be damned.

I've not yet lost faith in TVS service (not completely, anyways) because I've yet to see if the service is good in metropolitan cities. But I am close. The product is incredible. The RTR 200 is genuinely an amazing package and offers far more than the specsheet suggests. But the service? Terrible. I've already been disappointed before with the service and gotten over it too.

Today is the day they told me I can collect my bike. I'm skeptical as usual, and I may not be able to collect it today because of work. Let's see what happens.

[doomketu]

Originally Posted by OffPoynt

...In the first week of January, I landed my first job in Bengaluru. Since I live in Mysuru, I decided to go back there and get my bike serviced into top shape for the dreary office commute life it was now going to live (since I have no knowledge of FNGs/good service centers in Bangalore).

I have DM'd you a few details, i hope that helps.

[ManualMaestro]

Originally Posted by OffPoynt

.
I've not yet lost faith in TVS service (not completely, anyways) because I've yet to see if the service is good in metropolitan cities. But I am close. The product is incredible. The RTR 200 is genuinely an amazing package and offers far more than the specsheet suggests. But the service? Terrible. I've already been disappointed before with the service and gotten over it too.

Brother.. this is way too much. You're have too much patience. You even got into two accidents! I'd strongly suggest you to escalate your issue to L3/L4 (the details should be available at the service centre, on a board. Ask the ASC people to show it). The company will assign an OEM Technician who will most likely diagnose the issue once and for all. Having your front brakes lock up and being in risk of getting rear ended is scary