[VijayAnand1]

Originally Posted by Miel

"When" ???
In fact, KTMs are so well-engineered that it fools the novice into pushing the limits, thinking that they have absolute infallible control, until the very moment of disaster.

Last year, when my nephew wanted his first new college bike, I suggested a KTM, knowing he was a cautious rider and had been riding his dad's Unicorn for a while. He instantly refused saying his friends call KTMs as "Widow Makers". ROFL, talk about college boys worrying about leaving behind widows. Jokes aside, a few nincompoops and their antics on KTMs have socially dented the brand to some extent. But a KTM is still an amazing machine for mature experienced riders.

So, coming back to when did the dilution begin? It began soon after the bike was launched. It reached a peak alongside social media and now is labelled a "widow maker" by those who don't have "wives".

Meanwhile, I am considering adding the new KTM 200 to my garage! The following is the original 200.

Perfect! It couldn't have been elaborated better, especially how these KTMs prod the newbies to make them feel like they are the next WSBK rider. Gone were the days of the elite "brashhood" that used to victimize a specific brand. These days, it's as diversified as lifestyle biking morphing perfectly into the vagabond lifestyle -- hence the blurred line. But still some of them shine bright and out..

Originally Posted by saikishor

This came up to my mind, after I saw KTM unveil their new horizontal and vertical speedometers

These were my views, but I am very curious as to what other owners have on their minds. Corrective measures can be taken even at this stage IMO, but since Bajaj is only after volumes, this situation looks like it would not improve in the coming years.

It's never a question of when it started, it's always a question of how it started! I'd again refer to Miel's answer on where the line gets blurred. Vagaries start not with the ride, but the rider. With today's social media and doomscrolling, the amount of information overload and dopamine hit to prove something has prodded many to indulge in activities that gets them to unwanted crosshairs and motorcycling sadly is one aspect of it, that's easy and crazy.

Now, to your question of Why?


It all started when two-strokes ruled the roost, were loud, powerful, cheap enough and made sure it grabbed everyone's attention. And isn't motorcycling all about attention for most? For some it's a liter-class, for some, it's a hobby, for some it's recklessness, for some it's passion -- each case is unique and with so it presents unique opportunities for folks to stand out of the crowd..

And here is when recklessness or squidding comes to play. There's a saying, young and stupid and when you have bikes that are easy to access, comparatively cheap to maintain, a bike that handles so good that it makes you feel you're the next world champion, it's a classic recipe for disaster.

I've personally witnessed action-filled drama on roads on R15, Dios and fender cut Jupiters (special mention) and RS/NS200 than any other brands -- though the gamut varies equally depending on affordability.

By virtue, KTM has come a long way in producing great bikes, especially here in India and the brand in my opinion isn't as "brash" as it's considered to be, most consider it to be fast, dangerous bike and that's where the devil is, it prods them... it prods them to do it like no other... and that's where things go wrong!

I'll stop it at that.

Cheers!
VJ

[DDV437]

Young people have always had and will always be, stupid on motorcycles.

KTM offers great performance at affordable prices (at least it used to), so it's no surprise that people flock to it. We see it in cars too (as some members have already pointed out), but the whole creation of a stigma around the brand, to the extent that even people who like KTM's don't want to be associated with them, reflects poorly more on the fans than the rowdies.

If you really do like the machine, buy it. Ride it sensibly. Why should you care about someone else's perception? It's your money, your time, your motorcycle. Enjoy it to the fullest, "log kya kahenge" (what will people say) be damned.

[saitvsk23]

I was in grade 6 when KTM announced the Duke 200. I remember seeing the bike first in a newspaper clipping in the Metroplus paper inside The Hindu newspaper. The styling was almost alien to me, with a very striking orange and black color scheme. I had a hobby of cutting these images and maintaining a diary. And just like most of us, I lost that diary when we moved homes.

Fast forward to 2015/2016, when the RC series started gaining traction as a super sharp sportbike for the road which the masses can afford, the unwanted crowd who were generally seen on Honda Dios (the Activa was still an uncle scooter by then) shifted their base the these beautiful bikes and exploited the living hell out of these motorcycles. And soon enough, many people started calling the RCs and the Dukes as the modern RD350, which is because of the unbelievable power to weight ratio, the very accelerating nature of the bike and the inability of the "young crowd" to control the motorcycle, therefore killing themselves and their pillions in the process. Many incidents were reported in and around Hyderabad, mostly on the Outer Ring Road areas, and public highways. The media coverage was so relentless about these bikes that the publications did not hesitate to click photos of these bikes lying on the side of the roads when they hit the dividers, even if the surrounding areas were just spilled with blood.

With these incidents like these and the newpaper coverage reaching all of the standard Indian uncles, it left an impression on their minds that only the societal scum of this kind would ride these motorcycles. And if their kid asked one of these, most probably they got slapped across their face and were given a Passion Pro or something. But the dads who understood what their kids wanted, they suggested that they could get them some other motorcycles like the Pulsar 200NS (not the NS200, mind you) or the Yamaha R15, or even a Karizma, for that matter of fact.

Years later, I was talking to a friend of mine, and he said he was looking to buy a motorcycle which he's intending to keep it for a few years. He suggested a few run of the mill models, and then I suggested, "why not the Duke? It's got great power, once you get its learning curve you'll enjoy riding it, and its got great aftermarket potential." He was like "Nahh." For a micro-second, my blood went to its boiling point and came back to its normal temp. On the inside I was thinking, "such a legendary model spoilt by these people!"

And in 2018, I got to witness the raw manic power of the Duke 200. It was gifted to my cousin in 2014, and he himself had a few falls from that bike. And some were quite serious. I just took it out on a spin in a gated community, and I was scared. Even though I am a fairly bulky guy, the acceleration it had on tap was just manic. My CBR had a more linear power delivery. This bike felt like everytime you turned the key on, it got a hit of the forbidden powder that we all know that causes a surge in energy, and that scared me!

[RD150]

It was tiktok who destroyed KTM's image. I remember a lot of memes started coming up like " Cha*ri starter pack" which included boys with all possible hair colors, tight ankle length jeans and a KTM RC200. Tiktok videos gave rise to memes on KTMs and associated it with Cha*ris. Later tiktok got banned, but the damage was done. For people who are saying they don't care what others are saying, good for you, but remember you are a minority. Indian buyers in general are image conscious and it does matter to them if someone calls them a cha*ri. Also getting a bike loan today is a piece of cake. 0 downpayment and various other schemes are also the reason why Ktms are popular among cha*ris.

[shan_ned]

Let me start by saying that I am not aware of the literal meaning of the word “ch_pris”. I don’t even know the language to which the word belongs, its origin, etc.,

Then, based on how that word is frequently used/referred in a few motorcycling groups, I got an impression which meant that it is used to refer a few from a specific income segment who get easy access to motorcycles like KTM, Activa, etc., and ride rashly with no respect for other road users. I have never seen the word getting used against any big bike/superbike rider who rides fast or rashly. As I said before, this is what I understood/interpreted that word purely based on how it has been referred frequently in the motorcycling groups.

In other words, I felt as though it is an entitlement of the big bike riders to use that word against the riders of smaller bikes. For fun, let me start referring to big bike owners as “Lords” . I myself own a big bike and so I am also part of that elite “Lords” gang
Now, things have gone to the next level where the these Lords started saying that “ch_pris” are getting hold of a Kawasaki big bikes because of their affordability. So, I am repeatedly made to believe that not all rash riders are referred with that name and it is based on FINANCIAL status of the rash riders.


The Lords, though not all, also can give tough competition to the alleged “ch_pris” when it comes to respecting other road users. Those Lords post videos/messages boasting about the top speed capabilities of their big bikes, their cornering abilities, how loud/great their aftermarket exhausts sounded, etc.,. All these are done on the public roads.

When Bangalore-Mysore highway was opened, there was no restriction for the two wheelers to use the road. I have seen many big bikes (including the so called elite British/Italian/German branded) using the highway as some sort of race track. Those Lords were never referred as “ch_pris”. I even heard luxury brand car owners complaining how the Maruti cars were driven fast on the Bangalore-Mysore highway. I don’t want to talk about how fast a few Luxury car owners drive on the highways.

My concluding point is that social justice should prevail by using the word against any rash rider/driver, irrespective of the financial status or the brand they own . There are good and bad across all segments. In my opinion, “ch_pris” ride KTM, Kawasaki, Triumph, BMW, Ducati, Honda, etc.. Unfortunately KTM alone gets blamed.

[DicKy]

Specific date?
When mobile data became super cheap and social media started to be ruled by 10/20/30 secs video clips.

Originally Posted by vj_torqueaddict

Edit: I read some comments that Yamaha never had notorious image. Perhaps the folks commenting the same are too young on this forum. Man! I feel old sometimes. Behold my OG gangster!

For my dad's generation who don't know about KTM, Yamah is still the bad boy/widowmaker bike. Yamaha- Yamaraj vehicle still. Doesn't help that there is a strong resurgence of squids using RX100s now in Kerala. esepcially midnight runs with their vulgarly loud exhausts. If it was not for Pulsar NS and KTM taking the mantle, Yamaha almost got back the old notoriety with the R15 and FZ. It is just that the NTorq is equally popular among families and the Fascino makes the brand looks family friendly. KTM doesn't have any such models to soften the image.

Originally Posted by DDV437

Ride it sensibly. Why should you care about someone else's perception? It's your money, your time, your motorcycle. Enjoy it to the fullest, "log kya kahenge" (what will people say) be damned.

Wish that was true. Leave police harassment aside. An year or two back, I was standing in a bus stop near a junction. Two youngs guys were riding a KTM in the most possible legal manner, when all of a sudden an Activa uncle in their usual style just took a U-turn without checking or looking anywhere. All three came crashing down and the KTM kept sliding for a good distance. Hearing the loud noise, some union workers and the local ward councillor who were standing in the junction came running towards the spot and even before helping the innocent uncle up, started to rough talk and bash up the youngsters. It took an autorickshaw driver waiting nearby and me to convince them that the Activa uncle was in the wrong, and the KTM guys were just passing through. Replace the KTM with a Unicorn or Bullet or even a Pulsar, the reaction would have been way different.

Originally Posted by shan_ned

Let me start by saying that I am not aware of the literal meaning of the word “ch_pris”. I don’t even know the language to which the word belongs, its origin, etc.,......Now, things have gone to the next level where the these Lords started saying that “ch_pris” are getting hold of a Kawasaki big bikes because of their affordability. So, I am repeatedly made to believe that not all rash riders are referred with that name and it is based on FINANCIAL status of the rash riders.....I don’t want to talk about how fast a few Luxury car owners drive on the highways......My concluding point is that social justice should prevail by using the word against any rash rider/driver, irrespective of the financial status or the brand they own . There are good and bad across all segments. In my opinion, “ch_pris” ride KTM, Kawasaki, Triumph, BMW, Ducati, Honda, etc.. Unfortunately KTM alone gets blamed.

******* (or colony in Kerala), if you dig up can have classiest or even casteist roots. Visibly and audibly loud, while trying to grab attention in public places, in short public nuisance. Now you can attribute financial status or that old money is making fun of new money bla blah, but as far as I see even superbike riders doing ****** things are not spared from ****** status. Just that cheaper bikes are more in numbers and popular, hence will be more visible to the public. And in my algorthm built social media echo chamber, expensive vehicles are not spared from the ****** status either, be it Big bikes or Luxury cars Depends on the way it is driven or mods done.

You may want to give ch_pris/colony status to Big bikes or Luxury cars for speeding on highways, but the ch_pris/colony status isn't earned that way. You have to zig zag through peak traffic, performing last minute manoeuvres to evade oncoming traffic, ride three or more in a bike, rev vulgarly loud exhausts at midnight, perform stunts or rev maniacally in front of high school girls at bus stops. All while wearing loud dress/ hair and swearing at pedestrians.

Heck, I am more than happy to name Ola scooters as ch_pris/colony nowadays as they are prone to play loud songs on their scooters. Expensive Harley Davidson owners would do the same, but you won't encounter them on every roads on a daily basis.

[the.dogfather]

I own a 2015 Duke 390, so another so called 'Ch_p_i' biker reporting. Every generation has hated the people who love the cheap but powerful bikes. Earlier it was with Suzuki Shogun ( which was my previous bike) , RX 100, interim taken over with RE Bullet Standard 350 with exhaust mods, then handed over to the KTMs once they were launched. I feel it's a combination of the brand and sound which makes it easy to distinguish the bike that just flew past you. When I was in the market for a bike, I had done test rides of RE Continental 500, Benelli TNT300, CBR 250 in addition to the Duke 390. There wasn't anything else which matched the weight and seating position of the Duke. I was very happy even with the Duke 200 I rented for a week to get the feel of it, but the upgrade to Duke 390 while booking was entirely for ABS which was available only on 390 back then.

Yes, the bike is fast , no doubt about it, and is often ridden very fast in the city. The distinct sound the first gen had makes it easier for people to figure out that it's a KTM which rode past. The fact the sound isn't a pleasant one like ones on a four cylinder japanese big bike makes it an irritant even before they see the bike. The later generations of the KTMs didn't have the noise , however the first gen Duke 390s and the first and second gen Duke 200s have sold in huge numbers and are available for cheap in the used market. This makes it easy for youngsters to get their hands on them.

I would be lying if I said that it does not matter to me. No matter how calmly and safely I ride, in case an accident happens, I would not get the same support as someone riding an Activa, and there are high chances of assumed blame coming on me irrespective of the situation. My wife(then girlfriend) had asked me to park my bike far from the restaurant when I was meeting her dad for the first time.

However, for around a year, I have also had a second gen 2017 Duke 390 which my friend left with me when he was traveling. Even though the second gen has far more orange, the better voice note, makes it more acceptable. Have found lesser Honda Dio riders trying to pull stunts near me or try to race with me on the second gen as compared to the first gen.

The image is set and is not going to go till we have a new bike to takeover the title. With the newer KTMs not having the same exhaust sound, and as the first gens exit the roads over the years, the reputation may fade away, but that should not be a reason not to buy a bike that you love. I am in the market for a new bike, and I am struggling to find any other bike that the Duke 390 which puts that smile on my face. The combination of light weight, precise handling, braking and power is not matched by any other bike in the market in the segment and also maybe a few segments above.
Waiting for the Indian made Duke 690s or any bigger Dukes to upgrade and I would not care about the 'chaar log', who would call me a ch_apri.

[Samarth 619]

In my 6 Lakh populated city, there's no KTM service center now, and I'm one of the last left owners (most of the others are mechanics) of this 2013 Duke 390 which I got from a neighbouring city.People know me as an avid biker and although people know of the cha_pri tag, thanks to social media, they know I'm not them so I've had fine days even as a college professor.

In the past 10 years here, a KTM dealership opened, they did a number plate fraud, the manager was jailed and the dealership closed too, long story shortened. We've also had 3 major accidents involving KTM's and they did cause reputation damage but again, people forget.


I don't care about the cha_ reputation, because I always rode for myself & my heart, not for the reputation among people. I enjoyed a 44 bhp, 152 kgs monster, as if the legendary RD350 was reborn & God-sent for us.

Don't care about helmetless public, but I think no teambhpian should ever badmouth KTM or its genuine riders, for no mistake of theirs.

Lastly, if anyone wants to call me a cha_pri, please do so loudly, I can't hear a thing in the helmet, and God bless you anyways. This pretty much summarises how much I care (at the matured age of 37).
To other KTM owners too, I'd request that you stop caring what others say.

[b16h22]

Democratization of performance is always a double edged sword. It pretty much always invites the good & the bad kind of buyers to a product. Ever heard of the names Gixxer bros, Vtec boys & WRX boys? History repeats.

Looking on the bright side, KTMs and Bajaj single handedly blew our biking scene wide open and let a lot of us get the taste of a genuinely fast & fun international product at an affordable price. As with any affordable performance product, it invited the hooligans. But that's part and parcel of it.

These days, the 390s are hardly seen on the roads. Because Bajaj and KTM decided to price them out of the sales. Squids have moved on to MTs, R15s and Hunters. It might be a good thing for someone who was always put off by the KTM's brand image but to me, as a sports bike enthusiast, it's a major loss.

[am1m]

Originally Posted by the.dogfather

Every generation has hated the people who love the cheap but powerful bikes. Earlier it was with Suzuki Shogun ( which was my previous bike),

No! The Shogun was always the more civilized rocket, gentleman's express! Let us (former) Shogun owners leave the hooligan stuff to the RXs (and now the KTMs)!

(Just kidding, couldn't resist the old 'Shogun vs. RX' thing from college days! But we were faster!)

Thank god the Dukes were not available back then, I'm sure I'd have killed myself on one. (Though, even with a younger stomach back then, that ICICI Bank colour scheme (orange and more orange) would still have been too much to digest on a daily basis! )

[anilp]

Originally Posted by saikishor

KTM's shoddy brand image in India needs no introduction. It has gone to such an extent that people who genuinely fell in love with a KTM refrain from buying it due to the brand image.

I understand where this angst comes from, since I own a 2013 KTM 390 Duke too (I stood in line to book one the day it was launched). See, there's no end to this discussion. And frankly, this is not new in India.

You put anything powerful (and very affordable) in the hands of reckless fools, it will be misused. It's just the sheer number of idiots making a fool of themselves on public roads that linger in people's minds in such cases. And the resultant image blemishes will persist.

This pattern has been seen in India earlier too. Some notable cases in point include:

(1) The OG Yamaha RX 100 - Too good for its time, and every teen racer had one (Remember, teenagers riding without licences were no biggie in those days). Very very similar rep as today's KTMs in India. Today, the bike is a classic and the brand has very much got over the blemishes.
(2) Yamaha RD 350 - Lesser image issues than the RX 100 in relation due to the higher prices and service costs, but most people had very negative images about the bike in the 80s to early 2000s due to its boy racer image.
(3) Suzuki Shogun - Thankfully, this bike narrowly skipped the 'widow maker' status only becase of the government's sudden ban on two stroke engines. So it didn't sell as much as it would have otherwise. I nearly booked one of these.
(4) Bajaj Pulsars - Every.single.one.of.them. Arrival of the KTMs saved these in a way.
(5) Yamaha R15 - Lesser degree than KTMs, but still very much the Indian image of a squid racer.

I prefer to ignore such perceptions since my 390 Duke has been the best thing for me. Many bikes have come (and gone) in my life since 2013, but this darling is still top shelf in my garage.

The KTM brand resonates with me even today because:

(1) My 390 improved my riding skills at a level never ever seen before. To put it in context, I have been riding motorcycles and scooters since 1993. In a way, you can say that I was actually repeating my riding mistakes over and over again till 2013. The 390 actually got me wanting to improve my skills as a safer rider with better riding skills. KTM's organized track days made the learning curve even faster to grasp.
(2) It introduced me to a bunch of riding buddies who really get what motorcycling is all about. I continue to ride with many of them even after all these years.
(3) The KTM service network in India is very good, especially if you are touring. I've had an overall good experience with most of these centers across the country.
(4) I ride because I enjoy the bike. Not to get validation from someone else.
(5) And to say the truth, I've faced issues from idiots riding Hero Hondas and Activas more than from KTM riders. I just keep a safe distance from these fools irrespective of whether they are on KTMs or Dios.

To wrap up, I plan to keep some funds aside for an 890 Adventure that will sit beside the 390 Duke in the parking area. As the wise man would say,"Brand image gaya tel lene".

[Asish_VK]

Originally Posted by shan_ned

Let me start by saying that I am not aware of the literal meaning of the word “ch_pris”. I don’t even know the language to which the word belongs, its origin, etc.,

OT : You can identify them by few traits like : in your face vehicle modifications, total hooliganism supposedly to attract the girls, risking themselves and others for attention, loud exhausts, florescent hair color, slimmest fit torn jeans etc to name a few.

Though it started to identify a specific group of people based on their caste/financial category, now a days the word can be used to describe anyone fits the above list of traits.

[maverick029]

I believe it is now the opposite, as the general populace is now more aware of the consequences of mishandling a KTM 390 and all KTM products have now become better in terms of quality and more expensive, People are avoiding purchasing KTMs.

This can be seen, at least in the 390 sales chart published by RushLane for the past year. Nowadays the number of chaps zooming about on a KTM has reduced significantly as KTMs are not as VFM these days as in the past.

Upcoming KTM products are set to be more expensive that the past ones and that will only accelerate in making KTMs a premium offering yet again.

[NEWTON-METERS]

I purchased the KTM Duke 390 in 2017, the same year my daughter was born. During my college years, owning a good, fast bike was always a dream of mine, but financial constraints made it difficult. I had an urge to fulfill that dream once I started earning, but an early home loan and prioritizing my family delayed those plans. Eventually, I decided it was time and went ahead with the Duke 390.

The riding dynamics of the Duke completely impressed me; it offered an experience like nothing I'd felt before, especially since I was transitioning from scooters like the Activa, Suzuki Access, and the Honda Unicorn. The power surge when crossing 9000 RPM is still enough to make my heart race, regardless of the gear. In capable hands, this bike is an absolute beast.

Despite my excitement, I've only managed to clock 6,8XX kilometers in 7 years—yes, you read that right. A combination of my inexperience as a rider and the unwelcome attention I received from people in traffic dampened my enthusiasm. And to clarify, my bike is completely stock, yet it still draws negative reactions.

Now, here's where it gets frustrating. With over 300,000 kilometers of experience driving cars and riding scooters, I’ve never been pulled over by the police, not once. Yet, in the relatively few kilometers I've ridden on the Duke, I've been stopped at least six times for document checks and other issues.

It's disheartening to see a general bias among police, people, and even fellow riders when it comes to KTM bikes. Meanwhile, other bikes with similar power and performance, like the Royal Enfield 650 twins, don’t seem to face the same stigma.

[SnS_12]

Originally Posted by shan_ned

Then, based on how that word is frequently used/referred in a few motorcycling groups, I got an impression which meant that it is used to refer a few from a specific income segment who get easy access to motorcycles like KTM, Activa, etc., and ride rashly with no respect for other road users. I have never seen the word getting used against any big bike/superbike rider who rides fast or rashly.

Nothing to do with income but people get termed a 'C' when they ride their bikes carelessly and foolishly to garner attention. And the brand gets tagged along because such bikes are easy to buy and maintain to an extent. And even superbikes are joining the brand wagon thanks to such guys and the one motorcycle infamous with the 'C' word is the ZX 10R sadly. Not a cheap motorcycle by any means but easy access to buy and maintain is why you will find many idiotic videos made on the 10R especially on social media.