[nr07]

Originally Posted by Cyborg

It’s a popular misconception that preload is used to make the suspension harder or softer. The byproduct of doing this does make the suspension hard or soft but it’s because you are merely restricting suspension travel which is not the correct way to go about it.

I’ll elaborate on what I mentioned earlier, think of the full suspension travel as 100, now for road use you need to set it as per rider weight between 33 to 38 percent so it leaves the balance 62 to 67 percent of the spring for movement.

Now the real magic is in the compression and rebound which actually gives you the ride quality you desire. That is, the movement of the suspension in and out - force applied for compression (rider weight) and rebound. If the rebound is too abrupt you will have a sharp upward movement which will be uncomfortable and so on. This is also why suspensions may be tuned differently for rider, rider + luggage, rider + pillion or rider + pillion + luggage.

This requires the shock to have the capability which is why superior suspensions are expensive. If you don’t have this ability then you need to change the shock absorber. It’s a black art really but get it right and your motorcycle, any motorcycle will feel like a completely different one.

Cheers

Thanks for the detailed answer. For this motorcycle, the settings are at the softest. The manual recommends softest setting (1) for rider only and 10 for pillion + rider. Nothing else is adjustable in this motorcycle.

What I found is that on 1, the ride quality while a pillion is seated is quite plush. Making the preload higher without pillion on does not give the same feeling. Makes the ride less bouncy but also the suspension stiffer. It barely moves when you sit on it.

Is it possible to do anything at this moment without changing the suspension or doing a jerryrig with adding weights on the back which I can't do?

[sagarpadaki]

Originally Posted by nr07

Thanks for the detailed answer. For this motorcycle, the settings are at the softest. The manual recommends softest setting (1) for rider only and 10 for pillion + rider. What I found is that on 1, the ride quality while a pillion is seated is quite plush. Making the preload higher without pillion on does not give the same feeling. Makes the ride less bouncy but also the suspension stiffer. It barely moves when you sit on it.

Nothing much you can do; you have tried out all the options. Since you have kept the preload at the lowest, see if the springs become bit more pliant after the break-in period of a 1000odd kms of riding. I suggestion, ride another 400, maybe with a few thousand kms run with the softest preload and see if there is that feels plusher. If yes, then there is hope that after riding for a few thousand kms, you will get similar experience with your bike as well.

[b16h22]

Originally Posted by nr07

Is it possible to do anything at this moment without changing the suspension or doing a jerryrig with adding weights on the back which I can't do?

The answer is no. There is only so much adjustment a stock rear shock can do on a budget bike. You'll have to either live with it or think about spending a fortune on an aftermarket rear shock. There are guys like Zedling who can respring & revalve a stock rear shock to your liking but even that won't be cheap but still much cheaper than going the aftermarket route. Suspension is often the most expensive mod on a motorcycle but it has it's benefits. Being an international bike, you'll find plenty of aftermarket options in near future. But expect eye-watering price tags.

[ebonho]

Originally Posted by nr07

Is it possible to do anything at this moment without changing the suspension or doing a jerryrig with adding weights on the back which I can't do?

You could learn how to move WITH the bike and take up your weight with your legs and lower back. That way you have two suspensions in place of one. One a rudimentary mechanical one. The other a bionic dynamic indefinitely self adjusting a million times a minute one.

Cheers, Doc

[b16h22]

Originally Posted by ebonho

You could learn how to move WITH the bike and take up your weight with your legs and lower back. That way you have two suspensions in place of one. One a rudimentary mechanical one. The other a bionic dynamic indefinitely self adjusting a million times a minute one.

Cheers, Doc

Very valid point, Doc. Finessing the standing up position is going to help him a lot. I had to do this a million times while I was recovering Keep a bend in your knee and don't stand arrow straight on your pegs. Use the elbows and knees as secondary suspension.

[ebonho]

Originally Posted by b16h22

Very valid point, Doc. Finessing the standing up position is going to help him a lot. I had to do this a million times while I was recovering Keep a bend in your knee and don't stand arrow straight on your pegs. Use the elbows and knees as secondary suspension.

Exactly. Every biker should do that regardless. Like a jockey riding a horse. Your back will last a lot longer and you will be riding as an old man.

Cheers, Doc

[nr07]

Originally Posted by ebonho

You could learn how to move WITH the bike and take up your weight with your legs and lower back. That way you have two suspensions in place of one. One a rudimentary mechanical one. The other a bionic dynamic indefinitely self adjusting a million times a minute one.

Cheers, Doc

Considering that you remember me from that other thread, you already know I do a lot of saddling. When riding solo, I stand up pretty much on any bad patches or bumps. I wish I had done this earlier but better late than never!

[ebonho]

Originally Posted by nr07

Considering that you remember me from that other thread, you already know I do a lot of saddling. When riding solo, I stand up pretty much on any bad patches or bumps. I wish I had done this earlier but better late than never!

Saddling is mostly (9 times out of 10) for show and an internet you tube instagram phenomenon. That is NOT what me and b16 are talking about.

We are street riders. Most of us. Not recreational Sunday Dakar boys.

A bike is meant to be ridden seated. Otherwise all Moto GP riders would be saddling. The term itself I needed to look up. Like a typical Gen X.

Cheets, Doc

[ebonho]

Double post. Apologies.

[nr07]

Originally Posted by ebonho

Saddling is mostly (9 times out of 10) dor show and an internet you tube instagram phenomenon. That is NOT what me and b16 are talking about.

We are street riders. Most of us. Not recreational Sunday Dakar boys.

Cheers, Doc

I don't know what the official term is but yes, I take my butt off the seat during bad patches and breakers as much as possible when riding solo.

[b16h22]

Originally Posted by nr07

Considering that you remember me from that other thread, you already know I do a lot of saddling. When riding solo, I stand up pretty much on any bad patches or bumps. I wish I had done this earlier but better late than never!

I know you stand up over bumps and speedbreakers. Read on the other thread that you found it harder to do it on the speed. As you get used to the bike, you'll find your sweet spot and perfect posture to ride the bumps standing up. Sometimes you'll have to shift some weight to the back to avoid the rear rebounding violently.

Originally Posted by ebonho

Exactly. Every biker should do that regardless. Like a jockey riding a horse. Your back will last a lot longer and you will be riding as an old man.

Cheers, Doc

Had to do it out of necessity on the KTM Bad roads and first gen Duke 390s don't work well. And it saved my alloy wheels from the infamous cracks.

[Cyborg]

Originally Posted by nr07

Is it possible to do anything at this moment without changing the suspension or doing a jerryrig with adding weights on the back which I can't do?

What I would like you to do is ride at least 1 or possibly 2 other 400’s. Check the preload settings on both if they are the same and ride on a familiar road so you know exactly how your bike felt on the same tarmac. Now focus and feel if this/these bikes feel the same to you as your own.

Reason: although your bike is brand new it’s possible (slim possibility but worth checking out) that your shock is not working the way it should - flawed piece, missed during PDI (pre delivery inspection). If so a shock replacement under warranty should solve your problem.

If the bike is set at position 1 which is the softest and recommended for rider with adjustability available till position 10 then normally shifting to position 2 or maximum 3 shouldn’t make it very hard because there should be quite a bit of suspension travel left. This is why I suspect a faulty shock at the back.

Check it out and let us know.

Cheers

[VijayAnand1]

Suspension articulation and the inbred intricacies can be dealt with easily with super adjustable suspenders these days. Usually factory settings are a compromises for a given weight, and the weight is usually above 75kgs minimum suo moto. It's interesting to see, this thread has paved way so much so that BMI had to be included. Fret not!

Setting a suspension to the lowest (softest) setting might superficially induce a placebo effect of good enough damping. Once fully loaded, the dynamics of sag and rebound will completely change depending on the rider weight, accessories involved and road conditions and will negatively affect handling and suspension action .Some motorcycles are intentionally turned wee harder primarily to reduce the pogo-stick effect while cornering and generally a stiffer suspension aids in better handling and it helps better communicate the events transpiring under the tire directly to the rider.

Some suspensions become exceptionally good when loaded two up, this is inherently the design nature. Provisions of adjustability though are present, it's always a compromise between comfort, handling and plain stability.

Take it easy for now, try fiddling with the settings, especially two up and find the right compromise.

Good luck.

Cheers!
VJ

[nr07]

Update: I ended up speaking with Shumi and he recommended reaching to @indimotard to see if a cost-effective solution can be figured out!

[nr07]

UPDATE AFTER 450KM.

I would like to finally speak about some of the positives of the motorcycle. I know many reviewers would have more or less spoken about this, which is why I didn't bother to post them in my original thread. However, I would like to look back at a few things.

Finally the Pros

I thought the mirrors would be problematic. They aren't
My thoughts before the purchase were that the mirrors were more aesthetic than practical, and that they wouldn't be as useful as regular ones. However, the mirrors are perfectly adequate and look great on the motorcycle. The only minor gripe is that, compared to regular mirrors, you have to move your head to see them (as opposed to just moving your eyes). However, this tradeoff is worth it.

Reviews find the seat too soft. They are good.
The seat has a nice feel to it. It feels a little firm at first, but you sink in a little after a while. I know sinking in is not great as your butt needs support, however, I have done multiple 1.5-hour rides in one go and have not felt any issues. If you have read this thread, you would know I am very picky about comfort. Plus, the bouncy suspension of this bike works well with the seat. Bouncing on a hard seat would suck. As opposed to the suspension issue, the weight works for the seat. I guess heavier people would sink more easily and find this uncomfortable.

The handling puts a smile on your face
Dare I say it, I find the motorcycle more flickable than the Dukes. It's just amazing. It maneuvers excellently. Handling is why I did not want to switch from the Dukes, and this bike does not make me miss it (for this aspect). No complaints.

80-120 is comfortable cruising
I try to stay below 100 and struggle because the bike has more to offer. However, at 80, you aren't going to feel anything. It is equivalent to riding a Duke 200 at 50. It will feel unsatisfying, but the bike does it very easily. You can very easily go to 100KM/h at 15-20% throttle. You need more effort to keep the bike at lower speeds than the other way around.

This is a Triumph
From performance to looks to attention to detail, this motorcycle feels like a true Triumph. The body feels like the elder Speed Twins. The logo on the tank reminds you of the Trident. The headlamp looks like one-half of the Rocket 3. The fit and finish are great. Yes, some parts do speak Bajaj, but overall, it’s not an Indian bike with a foreign expensive bike logo like some others.

Great up to 6000 RPM
Amazing power without any discomfort up to 6000 RPM. You can overtake very easily.

Hazard working when the bike is off
In case you don't know, the hazard lights can be turned on, and then you can switch off the motorcycle and remove the key. It comes in handy sometimes and also feels cool to show off!

Some more cons

The instrument cluster is horse poo
I know it's supposed to be retro, but for everything else the bike has to offer, this cluster has even less to offer than the gen 1 KTMs. This is where a lot of cost-cutting went. There's barely any information, and things are hard to see. So many times, I have forgotten to turn off the turn signal.

Question: Would you trade off the immobilizer and hazard for a better instrument cluster?

Motorcycle hates below 30km/h
I know a short-stroke 40bhp bike is not supposed to like low speeds, but I misled myself from reviews that this motorcycle, with great tractability, can do lower speeds. It can, but it doesn't feel good. The handle feels heavy, and the bike feels vibey in lower gears. If the roads are undulated and you are solo and 65KG like me, the experience is worse. (refer to original thread)

Some flimsy parts


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A life lesson for me and reflections
Be it phones or laptops or motorcycles or anything else, I have always believed in going for upgrades during a switch. For example, if my phone costs X now, my next phone should cost X+(more money).

Well, it works most of the times however not always! After I had an accident, I stopped riding at higher speeds. Mostly stay at 80 or below. 100 is max! And, However, a trip brought back my passion for fun riding. I would still ride below 80-100 but pull the motorcycle harder (7000-8000 RPM on the Duke with lower gears). This was a fun experience but I thought more power would make it even better. This is where the Speed 400 came in as the perfect bike. Looks like a retro, has some characteristics of a KTM and does not like to go beyond 120 (vibes and all). However, this was not a practical decision. I feel like 25-30bhp is ideal for my use case for the fun quotient. Not a deal breaker, just a lesson for me that I do not need to go up a notch at everything at every time!