[nr07]

I want to add one more bit to the post. Shumi from Motorinc (previously Powerdrift) was criticized heavily for pointing some of the flaws with the bike. It's not like he said the bike is bad by any means but he pointed some negatives. People say that this is the case because he wasn't invited by Triumph and has a feud with them.

Well, that might be true but all the cons he mentioned ARE ABSOLUTELY CORRECT.

A rewatch of some reviews from both owners and reviewers shows that some people have mentioned these cons and quickly brushed them away in 1 sentence like they are nothing burgers.

One new guy called RealAutoReviews even made a huge rant about Shumi's bias and the behind the scenes of those. He is lighter than me and replies to every comment (almost, so kudos for that) and I thought about discussing my suspension complaints with him.

See his comment about the Duke. Clearly, this guy does NOT know his stuff and does not even understand that I am getting tossed because of the rebound and the stiffness of Dukes is completely unrelated. Because of the free market, anybody and everybody becomes an "expert" today.



-----

Also, my headlight and turn signals have started fogging from the inside after one short light rain ride.

[ebonho]

Well, he's not wrong about the Dukes vis a vis the Speed. The Speed is soft compared to the Duke. No two ways about that.

I cannot comment about his other comments about Shumi etc. Though what I know about Shumi (he is a Poona boy and same vintage and riding community) he is pretty on the ball and no nonsense.

And I have yet to meet a biker without biases. Motorcycles are boy toys. If the passion is missing, why ride?

Cheers, Doc

[Senotrius]

Originally Posted by nr07

Also, my headlight and turn signals have started fogging from the inside after one short light rain ride.

If it doesn't go away after a few hours or overnight , they replace it under warranty. They replaced my left rear indicator. Persistant or excess fog is covered under warranty.

[nr07]

Originally Posted by ebonho

Well, he's not wrong about the Dukes vis a vis the Speed. The Speed is soft compared to the Duke. No two ways about that.

I cannot comment about his other comments about Shumi etc. Though what I know about Shumi (he is a Poona boy and same vintage and riding community) he is pretty on the ball and no nonsense.

And I have yet to meet a biker without biases. Motorcycles are boy toys. If the passion is missing, why ride?

Cheers, Doc

He is saying if I am not thrown away by the Duke which is rock hard, I shouldn't be bouncing on the Speed. This is Apples and Oranges (welp). The Duke's stiff suspension might be hard on your ass but it doesn't bounce you on the seat because of suspension rebound. If you go over a bad patch or breakers on a bicycle, your bum is going to hurt but you are not going to be unseated because there's no rebound to toss you in air. This is as simple as it gets!

[AulusGabinius]

Originally Posted by ebonho

Well, he's not wrong about the Dukes vis a vis the Speed. The Speed is soft compared to the Duke. No two ways about that.

So basically what you're experiencing is the difference between suspension tune. All suspensions have two components, a spring and a dashpot (the part that holds the suspension's damping oil), so I did a bit of digging and this is why I think you're feeling this:

The Duke's spring has a spring constant low enough to absorb the little shocks, and the damping oil is light enough to not let you feel it. At higher speeds, the oil heats up, becomes a little lighter, and does a better job of damping bigger movements that the spring, whose spring constant is still high enough to not be easily compressed under bigger shocks at higher speeds.

The Speed, on the other hand, probably uses thicker, heavier oil with a similar spring. The thicker oil won't damp as much as lower speeds, and the spring will therefore transmit more of the smaller bumps to you. Load the suspension a little, and that changes since the oil is loaded and will damp down vibrations a bit better. So I'd suggest trying putting the preload at 3. My friends who have the Speed and the Scrambler do extensive highway runs, and they've kept preload at 5 and 4 respectively.

[nr07]

Originally Posted by AulusGabinius

So basically what you're experiencing is the difference between suspension tune. All suspensions have two components, a spring and a dashpot (the part that holds the suspension's damping oil), so I did a bit of digging and this is why I think you're feeling this:

The Duke's spring has a spring constant low enough to absorb the little shocks, and the damping oil is light enough to not let you feel it. At higher speeds, the oil heats up, becomes a little lighter, and does a better job of damping bigger movements that the spring, whose spring constant is still high enough to not be easily compressed under bigger shocks at higher speeds.

The Speed, on the other hand, probably uses thicker, heavier oil with a similar spring. The thicker oil won't damp as much as lower speeds, and the spring will therefore transmit more of the smaller bumps to you. Load the suspension a little, and that changes since the oil is loaded and will damp down vibrations a bit better. So I'd suggest trying putting the preload at 3. My friends who have the Speed and the Scrambler do extensive highway runs, and they've kept preload at 5 and 4 respectively.

Hi, thanks for your detailed input. Just to confirm, ade your friends from India? Since, European speed 400 has different tuning for suspension.

I am also 65KGs. Increasing the preload doesn't move the suspension at all when I sit on the bike. Have to figure this out.

[AulusGabinius]

Originally Posted by nr07

Hi, thanks for your detailed input. Just to confirm, ade your friends from India? Since, European speed 400 has different tuning for suspension.

I am also 65KGs. Increasing the preload doesn't move the suspension at all when I sit on the bike. Have to figure this out.

Yep, Pune, and we do most of our riding in Maharashtra. In the one who usually drives the support car, since my brother was until very recently the main rider in the family. We've sold his FZ-25, and now I'm saving up to get a Scrambler. I'm inclined to wait and see if the Bear 650 rumours are true, since I'm effectively going to look for something tall, commuterish, but can keep up with the big boys on the highway, and with an ADV 390 on soft trails.

[nr07]

Originally Posted by AulusGabinius

Yep, Pune, and we do most of our riding in Maharashtra. In the one who usually drives the support car, since my brother was until very recently the main rider in the family. We've sold his FZ-25, and now I'm saving up to get a Scrambler. I'm inclined to wait and see if the Bear 650 rumours are true, since I'm effectively going to look for something tall, commuterish, but can keep up with the big boys on the highway, and with an ADV 390 on soft trails.

Hi, thanks again. If possible and you don't mind, can you share their body weights? Since they keep the preload at 4 or 5, I am trying to figure out a ballpark. I will try myself and get to the right setup.

[AulusGabinius]

Originally Posted by nr07

Hi, thanks again. If possible and you don't mind, can you share their body weights? Since they keep the preload at 4 or 5, I am trying to figure out a ballpark. I will try myself and get to the right setup.

Sure, the guy with the Speed is about 70-72, the one with the Scrambler about 90.

[nr07]

UPDATE: I rode another 100 km on mountain roads and some highways with a pillion and I can't explain how amazing the suspension is. Super stable on higher speeds and eats potholes like breakfast. The feeling changes as soon as the pillion gets off the bike, however.

I would do anything to have this feeling when riding solo. Hopefully Zelding or someone figures something out and offers a kit some day. Fingers crossed!

My mom says --- Get married to sort your solo riding issues with the motorcycle. Haha!

[Cyborg]

Originally Posted by nr07

I would do anything to have this feeling when riding solo. Hopefully Zelding or someone figures something out and offers a kit some day. Fingers crossed!

While Zelding or someone figures it out, get a tail bag and put weights/plates of whatever weight at the back suits you and tie it down properly. Problem solved and you’ll save on marraige expenses as well

I will send you my bill for the advice later

Cheers

[nr07]

Originally Posted by Cyborg

While Zelding or someone figures it out, get a tail bag and put weights/plates of whatever weight at the back suits you and tie it down properly. Problem solved and you’ll save on marraige expenses as well

I will send you my bill for the advice later

Cheers

Haha. Can't say that thought didn't cross my mind. However, the weight of the bike is already making me sweat moving it around in parking... Especially putting it in my garage which has a complicated situation. Anyways.... Let me try getting used to it. What else can I do.

[Cyborg]

Originally Posted by nr07

Let me try getting used to it. What else can I do.

If the preload is at the softest I would suggest move one notch at a time to the firm side and see what suits you best. Since you are on the lighter side weight wise it should help you. For road use preload should be set between 33 to 38 percent of the entire spring load. Tightening the preload will make the suspension harder but what really helps after that is what I mention below providing you have it available.

Normally preload should be set as per rider weight and after that the rebound and compression damping needs to be set.

Check it out and let us know.

Cheers

[nr07]

Originally Posted by Cyborg

If the preload is at the softest I would suggest move one notch at a time to the firm side and see what suits you best. Since you are on the lighter side weight wise it should help you. For road use preload should be set between 33 to 38 percent of the entire spring load. Tightening the preload will make the suspension harder but what really helps after that is what I mention below providing you have it available.

Normally preload should be set as per rider weight and after that the rebound and compression damping needs to be set.

Check it out and let us know.

Cheers

I did try going 1 and 2 steps higher and went back to stock. I will ride stock for a while and then try again. My thoughts on preload adjustments on this bike are the same as another owner who commented on my Reddit post. So, I will add the screenshot here.

[Cyborg]

Originally Posted by nr07

Attachment 2636957

It’s a popular misconception that preload is used to make the suspension harder or softer. The byproduct of doing this does make the suspension hard or soft but it’s because you are merely restricting suspension travel which is not the correct way to go about it.

I’ll elaborate on what I mentioned earlier, think of the full suspension travel as 100, now for road use you need to set it as per rider weight between 33 to 38 percent so it leaves the balance 62 to 67 percent of the spring for movement.

Now the real magic is in the compression and rebound which actually gives you the ride quality you desire. That is, the movement of the suspension in and out - force applied for compression (rider weight) and rebound. If the rebound is too abrupt you will have a sharp upward movement which will be uncomfortable and so on. This is also why suspensions may be tuned differently for rider, rider + luggage, rider + pillion or rider + pillion + luggage.

This requires the shock to have the capability which is why superior suspensions are expensive. If you don’t have this ability then you need to change the shock absorber. It’s a black art really but get it right and your motorcycle, any motorcycle will feel like a completely different one.

Cheers