[MileCruncher]

This is the question that has been bugging me for a while now. And the reason for this is the number of options that are available in the market. The 400cc and above motorcycle market today is very different from what it was in 2013/14. When I had got my Duke 390 IN 2014, there were hardly any competitors in that segment. Today the 400cc segment spoils you for choice whether in naked, touring or cruiser categories.

I feel, I "need" a lighter motorcycle for my daily errands in the Mumbai traffic. Where getting the Tiger out becomes a bit much. While the H450 is a bike I like, its neither cheap nor light. I also went and test rode the Xpulse 200 at the showroom but the bike was in a bad shape and I didn't enjoy it. Scrambler 400 is the other option I'm keen to explore. Should I explore the Aerox and NTorq too?

I'm not too keen to spend over Rs 2 Lakh and hence used bikes are also an option. What else should I look at ?

[MileCruncher]

Last weekend was a productive one where I did roughly 400 Kms of riding over Saturday and Sunday .

Even though the initial plan was to go Dapoli for the weekend, eat some good konkan food and generally relax, it didn't go as planned. Late Friday night meant, I woke up late and could only start my ride by about 9:15 am. Getting out of Mumbai is a challenge and I could reach Panvel only by 11am.

The morning heat had me and I dropped the plan to ride through to Dapoli. New plan was to head to Alibaug, eat fish and head back via the ferry.

Parked at Chondi on the Alibaug- Mandwa Road


Fish Thali at Prabhakar's - a small place in Chondi market


Post the sumptuous lunch, I headed to the cool environs of The Deli for some coffee and waiting for the ferry.

Headed back to Mumbai


Decided to join the Triumph group for a ride to Buwanchi Misal in Lonavala. A good 200Kms + door to door.

Some clicks from the Khopoli ghats:




Amidst all this, wifey has been absolutely patient so may be some rides this weekend too

[MileCruncher]

Things happen in unexpected ways!

Today in the morning I had gone to the candy store aka bike accessory shop. While I was talking to the shop manager about my bike, another gentleman walked in and he started listening in. Soon the manager introduced the person. He worked at the Ducati showroom. I told him I just love the way Ducati DesertX looks. Taking cue, he invited me to the showroom which was close by.

I dont know why I said "sure why not" knowing fairly well that the DesertX sat at 875 mm and hence was out of my league. Went to the showroom, where the DesertX Rally was parked. That at 910mm was truly out of reach.

I told the entire staff that 830/35 was like max for me and hence I wasn't sure if my feet will even reach the ground. However, they got the bike out of the basement garage and asked me to try it. I sheepish approached the vehicle and climbed on. And then got it straight.

And lo and behold! I was tip toeing the standard bike on both feet. All of 875MM or was it 860MM (i.e one with low seat). I wouldn't know. But all that mattered, that I was tip toeing comfortably. Better than I was in previous gen ADV 390. And suddenly a new door opened up in my life! The one I had never even thought of knocking!

They insisted I do a test ride. I hesitantly agreed. Partly because I somehow felt I would be able to manage it. I went on a smallish ride and did 2 U-turns in traffic. I could handle the bike. All of 225 Kgs which didn't feel 225Kgs and 875/860 mm which didn't feel that tall.

I came back from the ride grinning. Not because of the ride per se, but for having ventured into the scary unknown. I cannot tell you how joyous I was!

I told the sales team at the dealership that I was pleasantly surprised and it opens an option. But I also told them that its atleast 4L more expensive compared to the F900 GS (that I feel it will compare to), which they agreed.

I had ridden the F900 GS as well which in low height avatar was also around 845MM. DesertX I felt more comfortable. I even called up my contact at Triumph asking for the 900 Rally.

After doing all this, I went and had a good 80Km ride on the Tiger. It reminded me why I love the old 800 engine compared to the new gen 900/950cc engines across Tiger900/F900 / DesertX.

Boy, whatta day!

[MileCruncher]

Options, options and options!

From a riding perspective, the last 12 months went very very fast wherein I rode only about 4K Kms on the Tiger and about 1500 Kms on Himalayan + Inty 650. While the Kms may sound low, there were 2 1000 Km rides and about 5 200 Km rides. Rest was all pottering around the city.

Last year gave me an idea of what the "middle aged" me wanted from riding, what kind of riding and where kind of riding. It also gave me an insight on what kind of motorcycles are suitable for me. And now that I have some clarity, the itch to get something either as an upgrade or additional is getting stronger.

My shortlisted options are:

Himalayan 450 - I think I fell in love with this motorcycle during my Uttarakhand trip. It has its flaws but then love is blind. Since, I still have a functioning head, I haven't gone out and plonked the money. But I dream almost every other day of getting this one.

Tiger 900 - The urge is not so strong on this but predominantly because its a newer bike and will require lesser trips to the ASC. In terms of riding riding, this wouldn't be newer ground. Now that my feet reach the ground, intend to explore the 900 Rally too.

F900 GS - I like the bike. Its straight forward and sensible. But not sure if this can be a 700/800 Km day tourer.

R1200GS - I'm enamoured by the 1200 CC boxer engine. But very very hard to find a good sample. I like the 1250 too with more modern gizmos but the 1200 is a more reliable engine. The GSA is too tall and too heavy for comfort so its out. 1300 I haven't ridden so can't comment. But I'm still undecided on headlight design.

DesertX - Love the looks, loved the short ride but again the same question, will this manage a 700-800 Km / day touring. I find the knobbies slightly squishy on tarmac. I wouldn't dare a sweeping turn of the curves.

I somehow didn't like the ADV 390 so much to get it home. CF Moto 450 is awaited to want to try it but not sure.

I'm thoroughly confused and hence a shout out to the brethren for guiding light!

[nidhinpr]

Originally Posted by MileCruncher

Options, options and options!
I'm thoroughly confused and hence a shout out to the brethren for guiding light!

My idea with ADV bikes in general is that it's always better to have something smaller and easier to fix in situations. So I would prefer a brand with a better service network or easy to fix by any mechanics, brands like KTM, RE, Hero. Even if I want to pick one apart from them, I would go for a single-cylinder option like the Triumph 400X, something pretty interesting. I do feel bigger and more expensive bikes come with more liability than good. Well, it would cruise KMs without issue, and great for highways. But when roads get narrow, with traffic and uphill, you would feel the size of it. With a smaller bike, we don't need to think twice about anything, we wouldn't have any of that anxiety of dropping it in any of those situations.

Let me share my ride experience from Thrissur to Munnar in 2021. I rented an Xpluse 200 & my friend had an INT650. Most paths were pretty wide and good, plush roads throughout with plenty of curves, but some sections were under construction & too narrow with hairpin turns. Only on highways, the INT650 was ahead most of the time, but when things got to hills and off-road sections and even narrow hairpins, Xpluse was flawless. For someone who rides street motorcycles in cities most of the time, riding a light ADV was no different in difficult situations. Considering we both have a pillow with us. While coming back, we took a new path as per Google Maps, we came across something very unexpected. It was narrow, downhill, with hairpin turns for several KMs, with off-road sections. Well, it was some real adventure and a very difficult one, but cause I was on a pretty light motorcycle didn't take much time to adjust to the situation. I can't even think of doing those sections with any of the big machines you mentioned. The weight itself is the biggest obstacle in such situations.

Also bigger the machine, the more skills are required to operate it under any given condition. I doubt most people who have big machines don't have enough skills to push the full potential of their motorcycles cause they haven't learn to ride the machine with all the nuances I mentioned. If you need a highway cruiser, then yeah, you may have a bigger machine. Otherwise, I would say the Himalayan 450, new KTM ADV 390, Triumph 400X, and the new Hero 210 can be considered.

[Cyborg]

Originally Posted by MileCruncher

R1200GS - I'm enamoured by the 1200 CC boxer engine. But very very hard to find a good sample. I like the 1250 too with more modern gizmos but the 1200 is a more reliable engine. The GSA is too tall and too heavy for comfort so it’s out. 1300 I haven't ridden so can't comment. But I'm still undecided on headlight design.

I'm thoroughly confused and hence a shout out to the brethren for guiding light!

Milecruncher, from your options just be patient and get a GS 1200 or 1250. One time purchase and will keep you extremely happy. Don’t even look at anything else from your list.

I have ridden the 1200,1250 and 1300 quite a bit. It’s hands down the 1200 or 1250 for long term ownership. I would choose the 1250 which I believe to be most polished iteration of the GS.

For me the 1300 has the most irritating ticking noise from the engine which I just can’t get over. With all the adjustments possible on the 1300 it doesn’t get close on the overall comfort - seat and suspension of the 1250. Torque pull, power is superb in the 1300 but you won’t be amiss buying the 1250.

If you know someone who owns a GS then things could get simpler. They have a group where owners will put up any bike for sale. Otherwise also just take the registration number of the bike and get a report from BMW and you should be good to go.

All the best, happy shopping and keep us updated.

Cheers

[MileCruncher]

Frustrated and How!

In the last 10 years, of the 7 vehicles bought, only 1 was brought new. I believe a well maintained 3-5 yr old vehicle is an immense value for money.

With regards to the Tiger, decision to go the used route was primarily to save money while figuring out how successful will be my return to the saddle.

Amongst the options available in the market, my Tiger ticked all the boxes as the owner was honest about what needed work. And the entire service history was available at Triumph and I could go thru it.

However, as it turned out over the next few months, the previous owner at some point had not taken enough care. I use my vehicles to the hilt, they also get taken care quite well. I don't like to take shortcuts in maintenance and that is why all my vehicles have served me well. And that is why I started my journey to bring the bike back to pristine.

Apart from regular service, I had to spend about 1.7 Lakhs in changing the following:

1. OEM Starter - 66K
2. OEM Alternator - 48K
3. OEM RR unit - 28K
4. OEM Rear Shocker - 20K

In addition to the above mechanical items, I have also added the following:

1. windshield extender
2. polycarbonate headlight guard
3. Android Auto screen
4. GPS Holder
5. Front fender extender
6. front beak
7. Saddle stays
8. Top box mount

And when I felt that the bike was almost bulletproof now, I realised there was small leak in the radiator. While that is getting addressed, I have been worried for a while on what will go wrong next!

I'm not sure anymore if I can take the bike on 2K Km tour. The thought of "What If" is agonizing!

Apart from the upgrade itch, the reliability question is what is forcing me to explore alternatives. However, I cannot be oblivious to the investments made on the Tiger. If I sell it right now, will tentatively lose 4-5L on my investment. I.e. Usage of 1 year!

Originally Posted by Cyborg

Milecruncher, from your options just be patient and get a GS 1200 or 1250. One time purchase and will keep you extremely happy. Don’t even look at anything else from your list.

All the best, happy shopping and keep us updated.

Cheers

I looked at one used 2022 GS1250. Bike seemed ok with a service history but am hesitant.

In the last 10 days, I had lot of thinking. Things like:

1. I want a bike that can carry luggage for long multiday tours
2. Suitable for 2 up riding
3. Is fairly reliable and has a decent service network
4. Maintenance doesn't cost the earth and the moon
5. Accessories don't cost a leg and an arm
6. I ideally don't want to spend more than 20L ( upper upper limit)

With the all the above, the broad list becomes:

1. New Tiger 900 GT or RP - Ticks all boxes but its same same
2. New F900GS - Cannot do 2UP touring
3. New DesertX - Outside budget
4. New R1300 GS - Outside outside budget

So the options presenting themselves to me are:

Option 1.1

1. Sell the Tiger 800, take the monetary hit
2. Buy the F900 GS and shut up for the next 5 years.

Option 1.2

1. Sell the Tiger 800, take the monetary hit
2. Buy a lightly used DesertX / R1250 GS and shut up for the next 5 years. Take the gamble.

Option 1.3

1. Sell the Tiger 800, take the monetary hit
2. Buy the demo R1300GS. Less gamble than buying used. Thankfully this is the apex. There is nowhere to upgrade to.

Option 2

1. Keep the Tiger 800. Be patient with the process and get it all fixed up. Run it for atleast 2-3 years more.
2. Get a new Himi450.

So dear folks, I'm thoroughly confused and hence need your help!

P.S: I have shared some of my thoughts on getting a replacement on the Tiger (without the gory details of a financial mess) with wifey and she has been supportive. She likes the DesertX especially how it looks and has even indulged me by watching some of the YT reviews with me. She finds the Tiger 900 design too plain jane, lacking flair and charisma. She is even accompanying me on our trip to 3 showrooms on Saturday.

[Cyborg]

Originally Posted by MileCruncher

I looked at one used 2022 GS1250. Bike seemed ok with a service history but am hesitant.

Sell the Tiger 800, take the monetary hit
Buy a lightly used DesertX / R1250 GS and shut up for the next 5 years. Take the gamble.

I have ridden the Desert X as well and have the feedback of the owner. It’s a good bike if you are thinking about proper off road. For your purpose, two up touring nothing will beat the GS 1250 - comfort, very good torque, excellent luggage carrying capacity and shaft drive. Nothing else comes close.

I have a 2022 Multistrada V4s with ~11k kilometres completed. Very happy with it, a little thirsty but with 170 horses on tap its to be expected. The power is above and beyond the GS. Only thing is chain cleaning which you have to do.

Any used bike will be a little bit of a gamble but if you look at our forum there are people who are crying with brand new bikes as well.

Nothing ventured, nothing gained. Take a leap of faith, not blindly mind you, take it with careful consideration.

Cheers

[Axe77]

Originally Posted by MileCruncher

I'm not sure anymore if I can take the bike on 2K Km tour. The thought of "What If" is agonizing!
...

With the all the above, the broad list becomes:

1. New Tiger 900 GT or RP - Ticks all boxes but its same same
2. New F900GS - Cannot do 2UP touring
3. New DesertX - Outside budget
4. New R1300 GS - Outside outside budget

First things first, just sell the Tiger, without a doubt. Its now 9 - 10 years old. Even if you keep sorting issues, you'll never be at peace heading out on a long ride. The Tiger served well to establish that you are a motorcyclist indeed and this is not a few weeks of passing phase. Having proven that to yourself, don't beat yourself up about spending bigger moolah on a big ADV.

I know your riding is 70:30 on:off road biased and even the off road I'm sure is not mad extreme.

I think your best bets accounting for a slightly varied budget are a new Tiger 900 GT / RP or a slightly used GS 1250 if you can land one. The advantage of the 1250 over the 1300 is also that its a settled end of life model if you get a recent example where the 1300 is a 1.0 of a substantially overhauled new generation.

A new 900 GS and Desert X are good bikes no doubt but I do feel they're much nicer if you were much more off road biased. The touring comfort the Tiger or the big GS would provide are simply unparalleled.

My order of preference for you:

1. Sparingly used 1250 GS
2. New Tiger 900 (GT / RP)
3. New 1300 if you can make the stretch
4. 900 GS / Desert X if they really appeal.

Bear in mind buying is one thing, some bikes, like the Desert X in particular can be quite niche and therefore harder to offload as and when the time comes.

Whatever you buy, make sure you take a nice long test ride of the bike - like 50 - 70 kms or more. After all you're spending a couple of million bucks or even more and want to keep this for 4 - 6 years so better be really sure of which bike connects with you. That last bit is key.

[PatienceWins]

Originally Posted by MileCruncher

And when I felt that the bike was almost bulletproof now, I realised there was small leak in the radiator. While that is getting addressed, I have been worried for a while on what will go wrong next!

I'm not sure anymore if I can take the bike on 2K Km tour. The thought of "What If" is agonizing!

Apart from the upgrade itch, the reliability question is what is forcing me to explore alternatives. However, I cannot be oblivious to the investments made on the Tiger. If I sell it right now, will tentatively lose 4-5L on my investment. I.e. Usage of 1 year!

I would go against the popular opinion and choose option 2. Give Tiger sometime as it should be in good condition after all the extensive repairs. You have spent a lot on Tiger and 1 year usage does not justify the investment. The current machines are much more reliable and the chance of anything major going wrong in remote places is less. In the worst case, you can get it towed to the nearest service center. If it is mainly the upgrade itch (heart over mind), then sell the Tiger and upgrade.

I have the notorious history of emotional attachment and sunk cost fallacy with material possessions. So my advise may not be the right one.

[100Kmphormore]

Since you have invested a lot on it, Option 2 is for you. How much has it run? If its in the 20k - 30k range its worth it. If anything more than 50k, would suggest to keep and ride once in a while to offset the cost of the repairs if you can get a reliable Triumph/Insurance RSA, and sell it 3 years down the line.

[boniver]

Originally Posted by MileCruncher

However, as it turned out over the next few months, the previous owner at some point had not taken enough care....Apart from regular service, I had to spend about 1.7 Lakhs in changing the following:

1. OEM Starter - 66K
2. OEM Alternator - 48K
3. OEM RR unit - 28K
4. OEM Rear Shocker - 20K

And when I felt that the bike was almost bulletproof now, I realised there was small leak in the radiator. While that is getting addressed, I have been worried for a while on what will go wrong next!

Did not understand how any of these items indicate that the bike is unreliable or that the previous owner didn't take enough care of it. I've seen these fail on bikes and cars that are a couple of years old; in an older vehicle it is not surprising at all.

Buying a new bike doesn't mean you can't have a radiator leak or failing electricals. Keep the Tiger, keep an eye out for any anomalies and get them fixed immediately, get a checkup done every 6 months, that's more than enough.

[maverick029]

Why not keep the tiger for 1 more year, that will give you time to evaluate all other options in detail and by then your financial hit would be somewhat cushioned.

[Mr.Ogre]

Originally Posted by PatienceWins

I would go against the popular opinion and choose option 2.

I echo the same sentiment. You have already spent a lot trying to fix the bike and accessorising her.

If the bike is fun to ride, and puts a smile on your face every time you ride her, I would recommend keeping her for at least few more months, doing small breakfast rides - 150 to 250 kilometers - and then decide if you need to sell based on the issues and problems you face.

[46TheDoctor]

Originally Posted by MileCruncher

Frustrated and How!



In the last 10 days, I had lot of thinking. Things like:

1. I want a bike that can carry luggage for long multiday tours
2. Suitable for 2 up riding
3. Is fairly reliable and has a decent service network
4. Maintenance doesn't cost the earth and the moon
5. Accessories don't cost a leg and an arm
6. I ideally don't want to spend more than 20L ( upper upper limit)

.

Being a Superbiker myself and having seen all the big bike brands' ownerships among my friends, I will suggest you as following:

1. I have a personal rule not to use Europian bikes (or even cars) beyond 8-10 years of age. Japanese bikes are way more reliable for a longer peaceful ownership while being almost equally exciting to ride.
So, firstly sell the Tiger.

2. Looking at your shortlist, I can see that you are not very Power hungry as you have some 900 cc bikes there.

So, my suggestion to you is to go for Versys 1000/1100 which can easily serve you for 2L kms which can be around 15-20 years of riding.

You can also enquire Honda for their Africa Twin launch plans here.

Suzuki V strom 800 is also a good option if the power/speed is not the top priority.

Generally people dont use their ADV tourers for off roading so in that case Ninja 1100 is also a good (power, lower CG, lighter) option.